The Ford Barn

charlesea · 03-02-2023, 10:41 AM

1929 Fodor hydrolic brake system installed in 2000. I have owned it for 10 years & the master cylinder went out. Replaxed with a new replacement (same as the original).
All went fine for about a month & the wheels started to lock up. Bled the brakes and backed off on the shoe adjustment. Front wheels spin free.
The rear wheels are locked & have not been able to free them.
Does anyone that is knowlegable on hydrolic brakes as to what my problem can be.
I can be contacted @ 334/799-5442 or [email protected]. It would be greatly appreciated to hear about any solution.
Thnks Ford Barn.
Charles Andrews

81ls1camaro · 03-02-2023, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlesea

1929 Fodor hydrolic brake system installed in 2000. I have owned it for 10 years & the master cylinder went out. Replaxed with a new replacement (same as the original).
All went fine for about a month & the wheels started to lock up. Bled the brakes and backed off on the shoe adjustment. Front wheels spin free.
The rear wheels are locked & have not been able to free them.
Does anyone that is knowlegable on hydrolic brakes as to what my problem can be.
I can be contacted @ 334/799-5442 or [email protected]. It would be greatly appreciated to hear about any solution.
Thnks Ford Barn.
Charles Andrews

Verify that the pedal is returning all the way. To get them free you can loosen the line, but that wont figure it out for you, just make it so you can move the car.

Jim Brierley · 03-02-2023, 12:40 PM

Do as 81/1Camaro says, but that's probably not the problem. All brake fluids, EXCEPT DOT5 attract moisture and rust the cylinders. You may have to replace or rebuild all of the cylinders, then drain the M/CYL and use DOT5 fluid. The two fluids won't mix, but are compatible with each other, get as much of the old fluid out. Good luck!

Flathead · 03-02-2023, 01:02 PM

If there is no pressure in the brake system when at rest the rear wheel cylinders are probably frozen. The pistons in cylinders get rusted up and full of crap brake fluid, stepping on the brake jacks out the pistons and they don't retract. The hydraulic flex hoses can also swell up inside and keep brakes from retracting. You need to use that Dot 5 fluid that Jim suggested.

nkaminar · 03-02-2023, 02:15 PM

You can try loosening the lines at the wheel cylinders at the rear wheels or loosening the bleed screws. But if the cylinders are rusty and not retracting then I don't have any suggestions except to cut the drums off and start over. Maybe take a torch to the wheel cylinders while the lines are off, but be careful of starting a fire. Have a good fire extinguisher handy.

Or, and this just may work, back off the adjustment screws all the way. If you can get the drums off this way then you can start the detective work to see what the problem is.

30Murray · 03-02-2023, 02:43 PM

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I would try disconnecting the brake lines at the cylinders and try sucking the pistons back with a vacuum brake bleeder. Keep the bleeder closed or plug the inlet depending on where you hook up the vacuum.

Joe K · 03-02-2023, 06:34 PM

And why many resort to a "brake cylinder hone."

Very popular in the era before disk brakes.

Um. Did you keep the parts from the mechanical brakes? A reversion with cast iron drums is probably the BEST braking solution you can afford to the Model A.

Not sure where you sourced parts for your hydraulic brakes but the later Ford Hydraulics were aimed at a car about 2x the weight and are not really "sized well" for the Model A. Overly large brakes make for common use of "brake feathering" which tend to "set" the brakes in one position - and make for difficulty of return and possibility of "sticking."

Still, there are those who use and prefer the hydraulic setup, but unlike modern cars they are not without care or adjustment.

But always keep in mind your limitation in stopping is NOT the brake system - once you get past the issue of Model A "brake fade" and install cast iron drums on the mechanical system. The limitation is the square inches of rubber on the road.

Ford himself late in the 31A model year went cast iron drums for the Model A. Originals now much sought after in the Model A community. Mel Gross fills in the gap today.

Joe K

nkaminar · 03-03-2023, 07:25 AM

The sucking solution discussed in Post #6 sounds like a good thing to try.

Gently heating the drums may expand them enough to get them off.

By the way, my original mechanical brakes leave black skid marks if I jump on the brake pedal.

gdmn852 · 03-03-2023, 11:15 AM

Hello, I would plan on going through the complete brake system.Previous experience on older cars if one brake cylinder is rusted chances are the rest may be too , also the rubber lines rot just from age . Hopefully you can find out what the parts were originally from to source replacement parts. With hydraulic systems it’s not to unusual for them to rust up from sitting, had this happen a few times on collector type cars . Be on the safe side and carefully go through the brake system , it’s the last thing you want to fail on you.

charlesea · 03-03-2023, 11:46 AM

Thanks for all the replys.
I had been driving the car after installing the new master cylinder. The system can from Dennis Cling in Arizona in year 2000. It had copper lines going to each wheel also.
I will try some of the suggestions & see what happens.

Joe K · 03-04-2023, 09:07 AM

Just curious about the "Cling" version of brakes.

They're still available and appear based on the '39-'48 Ford backing plates and wheel cylinders.

Discussed in question and answer at https://www.clingsaftermarket.com/faq.asp

Not to critique. You have a system that works for you and that's plenty good enough for me too.

And it is well you have Cling to refer back to. They have "been there done that" (unlike me in the 1980s who was attempting the same without the advantage.)

Joe K

midgetracer · 03-04-2023, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlesea

Thanks for all the replys.
I had been driving the car after installing the new master cylinder. The system can from Dennis Cling in Arizona in year 2000. It had copper lines going to each wheel also.
I will try some of the suggestions & see what happens.

I believe that copper lines are contraindicated for brake lines since they work harden and break. Cling is a reputable source and would not use copper lines. Perhaps they are steel with copper plating for corrosion protection.

katy · 03-04-2023, 09:57 AM

Quote:

It had copper lines going to each wheel also.

I'd replace the copper lines with steel or stainless steel. Braided if flexibility is needed.

eagle · 03-04-2023, 04:54 PM

I got some steel brake line from a parts store that had a copper flash on it. Check carefully before you decide to replace them, they could be steel.

CT Jack · 03-05-2023, 10:09 AM

I like to think forward as much as possible but it appears it would be a good idea if you changed direction and go original. If the original braking system is properly installed and adjusted it works perfect and doesn't leak.

03-02-2023, 10:41 AM	#1
charlesea Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Montgomery, Al. Posts: 640	Hydrolic Brake problems 1929 Fodor hydrolic brake system installed in 2000. I have owned it for 10 years & the master cylinder went out. Replaxed with a new replacement (same as the original). All went fine for about a month & the wheels started to lock up. Bled the brakes and backed off on the shoe adjustment. Front wheels spin free. The rear wheels are locked & have not been able to free them. Does anyone that is knowlegable on hydrolic brakes as to what my problem can be. I can be contacted @ 334/799-5442 or [email protected]. It would be greatly appreciated to hear about any solution. Thnks Ford Barn. Charles Andrews

03-02-2023, 12:40 PM	#3
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,097	Re: Hydrolic Brake problems Do as 81/1Camaro says, but that's probably not the problem. All brake fluids, EXCEPT DOT5 attract moisture and rust the cylinders. You may have to replace or rebuild all of the cylinders, then drain the M/CYL and use DOT5 fluid. The two fluids won't mix, but are compatible with each other, get as much of the old fluid out. Good luck!

03-02-2023, 01:02 PM	#4
Flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 1,502	Re: Hydrolic Brake problems If there is no pressure in the brake system when at rest the rear wheel cylinders are probably frozen. The pistons in cylinders get rusted up and full of crap brake fluid, stepping on the brake jacks out the pistons and they don't retract. The hydraulic flex hoses can also swell up inside and keep brakes from retracting. You need to use that Dot 5 fluid that Jim suggested.

03-02-2023, 02:15 PM	#5
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,944	Re: Hydrolic Brake problems You can try loosening the lines at the wheel cylinders at the rear wheels or loosening the bleed screws. But if the cylinders are rusty and not retracting then I don't have any suggestions except to cut the drums off and start over. Maybe take a torch to the wheel cylinders while the lines are off, but be careful of starting a fire. Have a good fire extinguisher handy. Or, and this just may work, back off the adjustment screws all the way. If you can get the drums off this way then you can start the detective work to see what the problem is. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

03-02-2023, 06:34 PM	#7
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: Hydrolic Brake problems And why many resort to a "brake cylinder hone." Very popular in the era before disk brakes. Um. Did you keep the parts from the mechanical brakes? A reversion with cast iron drums is probably the BEST braking solution you can afford to the Model A. Not sure where you sourced parts for your hydraulic brakes but the later Ford Hydraulics were aimed at a car about 2x the weight and are not really "sized well" for the Model A. Overly large brakes make for common use of "brake feathering" which tend to "set" the brakes in one position - and make for difficulty of return and possibility of "sticking." Still, there are those who use and prefer the hydraulic setup, but unlike modern cars they are not without care or adjustment. But always keep in mind your limitation in stopping is NOT the brake system - once you get past the issue of Model A "brake fade" and install cast iron drums on the mechanical system. The limitation is the square inches of rubber on the road. Ford himself late in the 31A model year went cast iron drums for the Model A. Originals now much sought after in the Model A community. Mel Gross fills in the gap today. Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

03-02-2023, 02:43 PM	#6
30Murray Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Vancouver B.C. Posts: 111	Re: Hydrolic Brake problems Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I would try disconnecting the brake lines at the cylinders and try sucking the pistons back with a vacuum brake bleeder. Keep the bleeder closed or plug the inlet depending on where you hook up the vacuum.

03-03-2023, 07:25 AM	#8
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,944	Re: Hydrolic Brake problems The sucking solution discussed in Post #6 sounds like a good thing to try. Gently heating the drums may expand them enough to get them off. By the way, my original mechanical brakes leave black skid marks if I jump on the brake pedal. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

03-03-2023, 11:15 AM	#9
gdmn852 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Erie Pa Posts: 689	Re: Hydrolic Brake problems Hello, I would plan on going through the complete brake system.Previous experience on older cars if one brake cylinder is rusted chances are the rest may be too , also the rubber lines rot just from age . Hopefully you can find out what the parts were originally from to source replacement parts. With hydraulic systems it’s not to unusual for them to rust up from sitting, had this happen a few times on collector type cars . Be on the safe side and carefully go through the brake system , it’s the last thing you want to fail on you.

03-03-2023, 11:46 AM	#10
charlesea Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Montgomery, Al. Posts: 640	Re: Hydrolic Brake problems Thanks for all the replys. I had been driving the car after installing the new master cylinder. The system can from Dennis Cling in Arizona in year 2000. It had copper lines going to each wheel also. I will try some of the suggestions & see what happens.

03-04-2023, 09:07 AM	#11
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: Hydrolic Brake problems Just curious about the "Cling" version of brakes. They're still available and appear based on the '39-'48 Ford backing plates and wheel cylinders. Discussed in question and answer at https://www.clingsaftermarket.com/faq.asp Not to critique. You have a system that works for you and that's plenty good enough for me too. And it is well you have Cling to refer back to. They have "been there done that" (unlike me in the 1980s who was attempting the same without the advantage.) Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

03-04-2023, 04:54 PM	#14
eagle Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eagle Bend, MN Posts: 2,027	Re: Hydrolic Brake problems I got some steel brake line from a parts store that had a copper flash on it. Check carefully before you decide to replace them, they could be steel. __________________ "There are some that can destroy an anvil with a teaspoon and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything resembling a tool."

03-05-2023, 10:09 AM	#15
CT Jack Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hebron, CT Posts: 436	Re: Hydrolic Brake problems I like to think forward as much as possible but it appears it would be a good idea if you changed direction and go original. If the original braking system is properly installed and adjusted it works perfect and doesn't leak.