The Ford Barn

Pilotdave · 05-30-2016, 11:24 AM

Please scroll down to #15 for the update!

Thought I'd won the fight and gotten the gas gauge to seal. Must have been sheer hubris on my part!

Filled the tank the other night and gas started to weep out at the bottom of the sight glass. So gas is not leaking around the outer surface of the nut - somehow it's found a route around the gasket-glass-gasket-plate 'sandwich' - and dissolved some of the 'paint' on the metal plate. I know that I filled the tank right to the top - perhaps fuller than when I 'fixed' the gauge a few days ago. I've pulled the gauge out and inspected it. I'm not seeing any flaws in the surface where the 'sandwich' seats, and there was no debris that might have caused a leak.

I'm hoping you all can help me with a few questions:

1. Is it possible that an extra gallon (maybe) of gas could add enough pressure to force gas around that sandwich?

2. Last time I worked on the gauge, I assembled it with new gaskets and a metal plate that had lost some paint. I saw no leaks, so I re-assembled the gauge with a new metal plate. I MAY have re-used the gaskets (thin cork) rather than using another set of new ones - could that be the issue?

3. I've read some comments on here about the repro inner nuts leaking because the threads differ (chrome plated?) from the originals. What I don't understand is why that matters. Doesn't the seal come from compressing the 'sandwich' against the inner body of the gauge? I'd think that if the seal against that seat is good, the gas would never reach the threads.

4. If that 'sandwich' persists in leaking, I'm thinking of using some non-hardening gasket sealer between the inner gasket and the gauge seat and around the threads. I've been trying to get this to seal the Ford way, but I'm getting close to throwing in the towel!

Thanks much.
Dave

C26Pinelake · 05-30-2016, 11:46 AM

I think you need a course in Gas Gauge 101. You should not need a sealer. Start over, take your time and follow the instructions. Wayne

Gary WA · 05-30-2016, 11:59 AM

Hi Dave, use new gaskets cork. I apply some indian shellac on the gaskets not a lot as you don't want to smear it on the glass. works for me just did one. I used the old gaskets but it leaked so replaced with new ones. Good Luck and have a Great Day. Gary.

quickchange · 05-30-2016, 03:18 PM

Dave use the cork gaskets, a smear of maple syrup ( northern hemisphere) golden syrup for us southerners, never fails, Derek in winter ,

rocket1 · 05-30-2016, 03:50 PM

The nut might nut be tightening all the way with the threads plated,I threw that nut away and had the original plated,no problems

Pilotdave · 05-30-2016, 04:00 PM

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Thanks, fellows. I have cleaned the inner threads in the gauge assembly - the inner nut didn't seem to be tightening as far as it looks as though it should. Will try it after some festivities with friends and see if that has done the job. If not, I'll try the sealer! I have no reliable way to determine whether I have an original or repro nut, though.

Dave

burner31 · 05-30-2016, 06:46 PM

You can't use that Chinese nut, it will leak every time (weak threads), hope you saved the old one.

Barber31 · 05-30-2016, 06:59 PM

I don't remember the name of what I used or how I used it but the last time I changed my fuel gauge I used a black gas/oil resistant sealer to help stop any leaks. Hasn't leaked once.

Pilotdave · 05-30-2016, 07:56 PM

I have only the gauge unit that's in the car......and no information as to whether it or its parts are original or not. Any way to tell?

I can see that the inner nut doesn't (still) thread all the way into the housing - the nut locks up with a couple of threads left. I could run through the housing IF I can track down the right one. It appears to be close to 1.25"-24.......but I have no good way to measure the diameter and thread pitch. Anyone know?

Thanks!

Tom Wesenberg · 05-30-2016, 08:29 PM

I tried a repro nut once for a customer, but the thick chrome plating would only let one or two threads engage before the nut locked up. No problem when I used the original nut. Look for sharp crisp threads, and most originals will also have age showing. My 28 is pretty much just brass showing.

Mitch//pa · 05-30-2016, 08:36 PM

The original nuts have a little weight to them... The repo's feel like your holding plastic...
I tried two repo outer nuts and ended up returning both.. The thread pitch is wrong.. This has been an issue that's been going on for at least the last couple of years

oldman - NorCal · 05-30-2016, 09:33 PM

Some of the vendors used to sell a casted tool to remove the inner and outer nuts. Hopefully, you have the higher quality steel tool that allows you better fit and a much tighter seal.

Mike V. Florida · 05-30-2016, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilotdave

I have only the gauge unit that's in the car......and no information as to whether it or its parts are original or not. Any way to tell?

I can see that the inner nut doesn't (still) thread all the way into the housing - the nut locks up with a couple of threads left. I could run through the housing IF I can track down the right one. It appears to be close to 1.25"-24.......but I have no good way to measure the diameter and thread pitch. Anyone know?

Thanks!

In doubt, give Berts a call and see what he has for originals in stock. How much could it be for a piece of mind that you are using the "good stuff".

Pilotdave · 05-30-2016, 11:53 PM

Thanks, guys. All good information/advice.

I'd love to know what the thread pitch is......thanks!

Phil Brown · 05-31-2016, 11:37 AM

Do a trial assembly without one of the gaskets. Run the nut down snug and see how much clearance you have for the gasket that you left out.That should let you know if the nut will thread down far enough to crush the gaskets.
Phil

Pilotdave · 05-31-2016, 03:38 PM

Thanks for all the added ideas and information. I believe that I have an original inner nut - the threads are indeed sharp and rather fine and the nut has some 'heft' to it. I have cleaned up two spots in the threads in the housing and now the nut threads in nearly all the way to the bottom of those threads. (I do have the higher quality steel tool - certainly a better option than a cast tool.) I didn't try assembling the gauge with a gasket omitted to check tolerance - didn't see that post until after trying what follows!

I decided to reinstall the gauge and refill the tank to see if we'd solved the problem. So far, there are no leaks. I am going to cycle through a few tank fillings before I declare final victory, but the initial results are favorable!

Thanks again to all of you who contributed to this thread....hopefully you will never see another thread from me on this topic!!

Dave

Divco one · 05-31-2016, 03:55 PM

Is the "new rubber" better than the cork?

Mitch//pa · 05-31-2016, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divco one

Is the "new rubber" better than the cork?

Cork is the best

Pilotdave · 05-31-2016, 04:31 PM

I've been using cork....they work just fine if one gets mechanical issues out of the way! I've not seen any evidence of the the ethanol-laced gas I'm using adversely affecting these gaskets.

Tom Wesenberg · 05-31-2016, 06:47 PM

Ethanol garbage gas messed up several guys rubber gaskets, or what ever they are made from. Last summer I cut some gaskets for the screw caps on my 5 gallon cans, and the crap gas messed them up. They were made from a sheet of rubberized cork gasket material.

I always use the cork gaskets on Model A fuel gauges, and never had a problem.

05-30-2016, 11:46 AM	#2
C26Pinelake BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan / Ontario border, Sarnia, Ontario. 50 miles from Detroit and 150 from Toronto. Posts: 5,800	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions I think you need a course in Gas Gauge 101. You should not need a sealer. Start over, take your time and follow the instructions. Wayne

05-30-2016, 11:59 AM	#3
Gary WA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Clinton,WA/Whidbey Island Posts: 4,101	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions Hi Dave, use new gaskets cork. I apply some indian shellac on the gaskets not a lot as you don't want to smear it on the glass. works for me just did one. I used the old gaskets but it leaked so replaced with new ones. Good Luck and have a Great Day. Gary. __________________ www.whidbeymodelaclub.com

05-30-2016, 03:18 PM	#4
quickchange Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Nelson. New Zealand Posts: 2,009	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions Dave use the cork gaskets, a smear of maple syrup ( northern hemisphere) golden syrup for us southerners, never fails, Derek in winter ,

05-30-2016, 03:50 PM	#5
rocket1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Midland Park,N.J. Posts: 1,108	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions The nut might nut be tightening all the way with the threads plated,I threw that nut away and had the original plated,no problems

05-30-2016, 04:00 PM	#6
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks, fellows. I have cleaned the inner threads in the gauge assembly - the inner nut didn't seem to be tightening as far as it looks as though it should. Will try it after some festivities with friends and see if that has done the job. If not, I'll try the sealer! I have no reliable way to determine whether I have an original or repro nut, though. Dave

05-30-2016, 11:24 AM	#1
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions - UPDATE Please scroll down to #15 for the update! Thought I'd won the fight and gotten the gas gauge to seal. Must have been sheer hubris on my part! Filled the tank the other night and gas started to weep out at the bottom of the sight glass. So gas is not leaking around the outer surface of the nut - somehow it's found a route around the gasket-glass-gasket-plate 'sandwich' - and dissolved some of the 'paint' on the metal plate. I know that I filled the tank right to the top - perhaps fuller than when I 'fixed' the gauge a few days ago. I've pulled the gauge out and inspected it. I'm not seeing any flaws in the surface where the 'sandwich' seats, and there was no debris that might have caused a leak. I'm hoping you all can help me with a few questions: 1. Is it possible that an extra gallon (maybe) of gas could add enough pressure to force gas around that sandwich? 2. Last time I worked on the gauge, I assembled it with new gaskets and a metal plate that had lost some paint. I saw no leaks, so I re-assembled the gauge with a new metal plate. I MAY have re-used the gaskets (thin cork) rather than using another set of new ones - could that be the issue? 3. I've read some comments on here about the repro inner nuts leaking because the threads differ (chrome plated?) from the originals. What I don't understand is why that matters. Doesn't the seal come from compressing the 'sandwich' against the inner body of the gauge? I'd think that if the seal against that seat is good, the gas would never reach the threads. 4. If that 'sandwich' persists in leaking, I'm thinking of using some non-hardening gasket sealer between the inner gasket and the gauge seat and around the threads. I've been trying to get this to seal the Ford way, but I'm getting close to throwing in the towel! Thanks much. Dave Last edited by Pilotdave; 05-31-2016 at 03:39 PM.

05-30-2016, 06:59 PM	#8
Barber31 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 687	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions I don't remember the name of what I used or how I used it but the last time I changed my fuel gauge I used a black gas/oil resistant sealer to help stop any leaks. Hasn't leaked once.

05-30-2016, 07:56 PM	#9
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions I have only the gauge unit that's in the car......and no information as to whether it or its parts are original or not. Any way to tell? I can see that the inner nut doesn't (still) thread all the way into the housing - the nut locks up with a couple of threads left. I could run through the housing IF I can track down the right one. It appears to be close to 1.25"-24.......but I have no good way to measure the diameter and thread pitch. Anyone know? Thanks!

05-30-2016, 08:29 PM	#10
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions I tried a repro nut once for a customer, but the thick chrome plating would only let one or two threads engage before the nut locked up. No problem when I used the original nut. Look for sharp crisp threads, and most originals will also have age showing. My 28 is pretty much just brass showing.

05-30-2016, 08:36 PM	#11
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions The original nuts have a little weight to them... The repo's feel like your holding plastic... I tried two repo outer nuts and ended up returning both.. The thread pitch is wrong.. This has been an issue that's been going on for at least the last couple of years

05-30-2016, 09:33 PM	#12
oldman - NorCal Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gold Country Posts: 64	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions Some of the vendors used to sell a casted tool to remove the inner and outer nuts. Hopefully, you have the higher quality steel tool that allows you better fit and a much tighter seal.

05-30-2016, 11:53 PM	#14
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions Thanks, guys. All good information/advice. I'd love to know what the thread pitch is......thanks!

05-31-2016, 11:37 AM	#15
Phil Brown Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee Calif. Posts: 507	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions Do a trial assembly without one of the gaskets. Run the nut down snug and see how much clearance you have for the gasket that you left out.That should let you know if the nut will thread down far enough to crush the gaskets. Phil

05-31-2016, 03:38 PM	#16
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions Thanks for all the added ideas and information. I believe that I have an original inner nut - the threads are indeed sharp and rather fine and the nut has some 'heft' to it. I have cleaned up two spots in the threads in the housing and now the nut threads in nearly all the way to the bottom of those threads. (I do have the higher quality steel tool - certainly a better option than a cast tool.) I didn't try assembling the gauge with a gasket omitted to check tolerance - didn't see that post until after trying what follows! I decided to reinstall the gauge and refill the tank to see if we'd solved the problem. So far, there are no leaks. I am going to cycle through a few tank fillings before I declare final victory, but the initial results are favorable! Thanks again to all of you who contributed to this thread....hopefully you will never see another thread from me on this topic!! Dave

05-31-2016, 03:55 PM	#17
Divco one Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Johnstown, PA. Posts: 137	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions - UPDATE Is the "new rubber" better than the cork?

05-31-2016, 04:31 PM	#19
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions - UPDATE I've been using cork....they work just fine if one gets mechanical issues out of the way! I've not seen any evidence of the the ethanol-laced gas I'm using adversely affecting these gaskets.

05-31-2016, 06:47 PM	#20
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Leaking Gas Gauge - AGAIN! Couple of Questions - UPDATE Ethanol garbage gas messed up several guys rubber gaskets, or what ever they are made from. Last summer I cut some gaskets for the screw caps on my 5 gallon cans, and the crap gas messed them up. They were made from a sheet of rubberized cork gasket material. I always use the cork gaskets on Model A fuel gauges, and never had a problem.