The Ford Barn

Rip · 01-23-2017, 11:53 AM

#1-axle key way slot has .002-.004 slop over new key. There was some kind of tore up plastic conical sleeve with a projection fitting key way. It appears there are commercial conical sleeve shims (at least for model Ts) to keep drum from rubbing backplate. Mine not rubbing.
-Also appears I could Side shim the keyway with some shim stock. This leads to second problem.
#2-top and bottom shoes have lots movement left and right and cam outside arm (with brake rod) is sloppy. Suspect the arm bushing but unsure of shoes.
-commercial shoe centering tools refer to "bending the roller track ear". Have looked but can't figure what is the "ear"...

Also could some wear on the roller pins be the cause?
Thanks, Rip

Tom Wesenberg · 01-23-2017, 12:12 PM

I wouldn't bend any ears, as they should be in a straight line. If they have a worn groove, then weld and grind it to be like new, or rivet on new parts.

Use the axle shims only if needed to keep the drum from rubbing the backing plate, and only use the dealer steel shims.

Jacksonlll · 01-23-2017, 01:32 PM

On the oversize key slot, if you can set up a good back up, take a big hammer and pound on it to close it up a bit. This was common practice way back. We did it this year and it worked fine. Our axle was out of the car, so it was a lot easier.
I'm sure your main bushings are shot and need to be replaced. Big job. Try to move your main actuating lever side ways and up and down. There should not be any movement. It's a heavily loaded bushing and you must keep it lubed.
The track is riveted to the b/plate. Should be dead flat on top so the roller can roll on it. They wear quickly. Not a real good design. You may have to do the whole brake job. Expensive if you send it away. Gotta have good brakes.

Rip · 01-24-2017, 12:34 PM

Got e brake off. Attached video showing "play" in service shoes.
Also took off/inspected, finding ok: pins/rollers, wedge adjusting shafts,roller track assembly is flat and has gap at 1.040" instead of 1.00 per L.Andrews vol 1. Assume that is ok?

The bushing on service brake arm/camshaft is loose. Trying to get pin out of the arm.

My question is: can the bushing be causing all the shoe play 1/2-3/4" in/out play or is it something else I've overlooked?

Thanks, Rip
Ps-for whatever it's worth, just went and compared shoe width at 1-1/2" to wear inside drum around 2". Also my right rear shoes had no slop.

Rip · 01-24-2017, 04:04 PM

How about another. Can't get that pin out of the service brake arm and camshaft while backing plate mounted on car. everything is disconnected but not sure how to remove the plate without bending it. Do the 4 bolts connecting the e brake backing plate have to be removed first? Is it a hammer hit? Help again!
Thanks, Dick

Jacksonlll · 01-24-2017, 08:40 PM

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Take the 4 bolts out, rotate the service brake way out of the operating position, away from the center it will then rotate out through the wishbone. Just horse that lever around. It will go. On the big pin. Grind the head off and punch it out. Get new ones.

Rip · 01-25-2017, 07:18 PM

Ok got backing plate with service brake/ camshaft lever stop off.
Newest problem is I can't drive the old pin out after grinding off the head.
Although having never tried, how about heating brake lever with propane torch?
Where does heat get applied exactly??
Thanks, Rip
Ps- all new parts ordered today so need to get that pin out soon��

Tom Wesenberg · 01-25-2017, 07:27 PM

Propane torches are only good for heating up day old pizza.

You need a real torch or you could drill the pin from both sides by using a bit just smaller than the pin, then see if you can twist the arm off the shaft.

Jacksonlll · 01-25-2017, 07:30 PM

Put the heat on the lever, not the pin. Stay with it. You will get it off. Keep grinding.

SeaSlugs · 01-26-2017, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Propane torches are only good for heating up day old pizza.

You need a real torch or you could drill the pin from both sides by using a bit just smaller than the pin, then see if you can twist the arm off the shaft.

agreed with the propane, at a minimum use MAP gas as it burns hotter.

Rip · 01-27-2017, 09:59 AM

Hurray! Used advise and finally got service arm disconnected from camshaft on LR BRAKE. Used multiple sized drill bits on each side of service arm but wasn't able to twist off remaining she'll so finally got bigger hammer and drove pin out. Then lots of lube and twisting/pulling/verbalizing got the two apart.

BTW was able to move ( leaving them in) the 4 backing plate bolts towards differential somewhat, tapped on plate and wiggled service arm thru. Little spooky first 3 times. Backing plate off.

Hopefully last question🙏. . Think I read someplace one can't push out the old bushing but forgot what was the removal method?
Additionally, will new bushing need a special tool to insert or is there a workaround?

Thanks again, Rip

01-23-2017, 01:32 PM	#3
Jacksonlll Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC Posts: 1,686	Re: '30 left rear problems On the oversize key slot, if you can set up a good back up, take a big hammer and pound on it to close it up a bit. This was common practice way back. We did it this year and it worked fine. Our axle was out of the car, so it was a lot easier. I'm sure your main bushings are shot and need to be replaced. Big job. Try to move your main actuating lever side ways and up and down. There should not be any movement. It's a heavily loaded bushing and you must keep it lubed. The track is riveted to the b/plate. Should be dead flat on top so the roller can roll on it. They wear quickly. Not a real good design. You may have to do the whole brake job. Expensive if you send it away. Gotta have good brakes.

01-24-2017, 12:34 PM	#4
Rip Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Lakeland, Fla Posts: 49	Re: '30 left rear problems Got e brake off. Attached video showing "play" in service shoes. Also took off/inspected, finding ok: pins/rollers, wedge adjusting shafts,roller track assembly is flat and has gap at 1.040" instead of 1.00 per L.Andrews vol 1. Assume that is ok? The bushing on service brake arm/camshaft is loose. Trying to get pin out of the arm. My question is: can the bushing be causing all the shoe play 1/2-3/4" in/out play or is it something else I've overlooked? Thanks, Rip Ps-for whatever it's worth, just went and compared shoe width at 1-1/2" to wear inside drum around 2". Also my right rear shoes had no slop.

01-24-2017, 04:04 PM	#5
Rip Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Lakeland, Fla Posts: 49	Re: '30 left rear problems How about another. Can't get that pin out of the service brake arm and camshaft while backing plate mounted on car. everything is disconnected but not sure how to remove the plate without bending it. Do the 4 bolts connecting the e brake backing plate have to be removed first? Is it a hammer hit? Help again! Thanks, Dick

01-24-2017, 08:40 PM	#6
Jacksonlll Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC Posts: 1,686	Re: '30 left rear problems Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Take the 4 bolts out, rotate the service brake way out of the operating position, away from the center it will then rotate out through the wishbone. Just horse that lever around. It will go. On the big pin. Grind the head off and punch it out. Get new ones.

01-25-2017, 07:18 PM	#7
Rip Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Lakeland, Fla Posts: 49	Re: '30 left rear problems Ok got backing plate with service brake/ camshaft lever stop off. Newest problem is I can't drive the old pin out after grinding off the head. Although having never tried, how about heating brake lever with propane torch? Where does heat get applied exactly?? Thanks, Rip Ps- all new parts ordered today so need to get that pin out soon��

01-23-2017, 11:53 AM	#1
Rip Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Lakeland, Fla Posts: 49	'30 left rear problems #1-axle key way slot has .002-.004 slop over new key. There was some kind of tore up plastic conical sleeve with a projection fitting key way. It appears there are commercial conical sleeve shims (at least for model Ts) to keep drum from rubbing backplate. Mine not rubbing. -Also appears I could Side shim the keyway with some shim stock. This leads to second problem. #2-top and bottom shoes have lots movement left and right and cam outside arm (with brake rod) is sloppy. Suspect the arm bushing but unsure of shoes. -commercial shoe centering tools refer to "bending the roller track ear". Have looked but can't figure what is the "ear"... Also could some wear on the roller pins be the cause? Thanks, Rip

01-23-2017, 12:12 PM	#2
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: '30 left rear problems I wouldn't bend any ears, as they should be in a straight line. If they have a worn groove, then weld and grind it to be like new, or rivet on new parts. Use the axle shims only if needed to keep the drum from rubbing the backing plate, and only use the dealer steel shims.

01-25-2017, 07:27 PM	#8
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: '30 left rear problems Propane torches are only good for heating up day old pizza. You need a real torch or you could drill the pin from both sides by using a bit just smaller than the pin, then see if you can twist the arm off the shaft.

01-25-2017, 07:30 PM	#9
Jacksonlll Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC Posts: 1,686	Re: '30 left rear problems Put the heat on the lever, not the pin. Stay with it. You will get it off. Keep grinding.

01-27-2017, 09:59 AM	#11
Rip Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Lakeland, Fla Posts: 49	Re: '30 left rear problems Hurray! Used advise and finally got service arm disconnected from camshaft on LR BRAKE. Used multiple sized drill bits on each side of service arm but wasn't able to twist off remaining she'll so finally got bigger hammer and drove pin out. Then lots of lube and twisting/pulling/verbalizing got the two apart. BTW was able to move ( leaving them in) the 4 backing plate bolts towards differential somewhat, tapped on plate and wiggled service arm thru. Little spooky first 3 times. Backing plate off. Hopefully last question🙏. . Think I read someplace one can't push out the old bushing but forgot what was the removal method? Additionally, will new bushing need a special tool to insert or is there a workaround? Thanks again, Rip