F-1 head gaskets

[1948F-1Pickup]

After a couple of years of use after purchasing the F-1
I've discovered a recent inability to maintain water
level in the radiator. Nothing else amiss and nothing
in the pan other than oil..... so the water is going
somewhere. And fuel/combustion smell at the radiator
cap opening.

I assume the 8BA uses head gaskets. Looks like another
project on the immediate horizon. Not really looking
forward to removing head bolts that look like they haven't
been touched since 1948.....

[tubman]

A couple of suggestions about removing head bolts. Try to tighten a little before loosening them. An air wrench with its intermittent hits is better than a steady pull. You might want to try hitting them with a penetrant, but it is unlikely that it will be able to get all the way down to the threaded part of the bolts. Above all, be careful and go slow. I've torn down a dozen or so of these and never broken a head bolt, but then I only buy running engines, not balls of rust. You might want to run it and get it up to temperature and see which ones will bust loose. Then let it cool, and see if you can get the rest. If you do get one part way out and it starts to bind, then hit it with penetrant and work it back and forth.

[chap52]

Handy hint if you are dealing with bolts and not studs:
When it comes time to put it back together take some threaded stock, or old head bolts about 3" long to make two studs (cut off bolt heads). Screw them loosely into two bolt holes and use them to position the head gasket and then slip on the head, put in a few of bolts then remove the stud/guides replacing them with the proper bolt.
A few times of trying to get everything lined up without the stud/guides will convince you to use them. Chap

[flatjack9]

Before taking them out, try torqueing them to see if they are loose.

[1948F-1Pickup]

All great suggestions. Thanks for that.

[tubman]

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"Cha52" makes a very good suggestion. I went so far as to get two 6" pieces of 7/16" rod and threaded one end coarse and the other end fine.I screw in the coarse end in the block to line up the heads, and the fine end in the bell housing to install the transmission (I have a car, not a truck). Very handy to have. I have one last suggestion ; use a hacksaw and put a screwdriver slot in each end so in the unlikely case they get stuck, you can easily get them out.

[mtflat]

Just make sure you're actually losing coolant that way. My 48 F1 will puke extra coolant out the overflow tube until it is just above the top of the tubes. 5 gal of coolant expands a bit. Once mine settles in at that level it never needs any more added. If I do, it spits out the extra. 10 yrs as a daily...fwiw

[1948F-1Pickup]

I have my suspicions. It had been ok for coolant
level up to about 3-4 months ago. Last week
I noticed that I wasn't getting ANYTHING out of
the heater, but the factory engine temp gauge
was right in the center as always. The other day
I noticed a slightly higher than normal reading
on the mechanical engine temp gauge and the
dash gauge sweeping higher than normal. I
suspected a thermostat problem but discovered
an empty top radiator tank that took about 3/4
gallon to bring the level up above the tubes.
After driving it the next day, coolant level was
down again.
I'm going to take a block tester to it as I'm
pretty sure these head gaskets have been slowly
dying for awhile now.

[mtflat]

Sounds like you have it sorted out - good luck with it. I replaced a head gasket once and thought I paid enough attention, but I had a slight seep around one head bolt. Turns out the gasket was flipped. Now I check and double check.
By the way, the advice above is right on. The air wrench works wonders and is well worth it.

[1948F-1Pickup]

No air wrench available here.... Those bolts are TIGHT.
Doubt anyone has touched them since the engine
was built!
I should know what's going on this week. Does look
like I have a less than ideal seal at the radiator cap
too.

[JSeery]

Have you considered a leakdown test before pulling the heads?

[1948F-1Pickup]

Someone has my leakdown tester. I'll probably use the
block test kit. Right now I'm verifying that the water
level that I topped off recently is actually "topped off"
(or is it disappearing internally through the suspected
head gasket as I initially thought).
Thanks to mtflat for that. I had forgotten that the final
coolant level took a little bit of time to stabilize.

[JSeery]

Might set up a catch can to see if the coolant is going out the cap overflow.

[1948F-1Pickup]

I think I've ruled out head gaskets.......
I'm going to swap out the thermostats this weekend
and clean out both Gano filters in the upper radiator
hoses.

I do see evidence of slight liquid escaping the rad cap,
dribbling down the tank in front and over the fins.
Over time that would account for fluid disappearing and
that makes the cap suspect. And the flange in the
filler neck where the cap seats.
Checking these things now.....

[chap52]

Take notice when you remove the bolts of their different lengths.

If these bolts have been in there awhile and show any signs of deterioration I would spend the $30 and replace them all.

When putting it back together use a thread sealant on the bolts. I use Permetex Thread Sealant # 80632. This will protect the threads that are going through the water jacket.

Keep us posted. Chap

[1948F-1Pickup]

Things look ok. Which is good news. Really DID NOT want
to pull these heads to do head gaskets.
R&R'd the thermostats, cleaned Gano filters and flushed &
filled her up.
Dash temp gauge sits in about the center and deflects about
a 1/6" as the thermostats open and close.
That's about the way this one was before I discovered the
low water level.....
She appears to be ok.

[1948F-1Pickup]

Well. I'm back on this subject. Water level won't stay at the top of the radiator tubes, but there's nothing on the ground and nothing in the oil pan. No droplets on the dipstick either. If I drive it 20 miles, I'm down about a quart in the radiator the next morning.
I used a coolant system tester to pressurize the system. The engine appears to leak down ever so slowly & gradually but will do a sudden 1/4 pound drop occasionally. Takes about 1 minute per pound of air pressure to leak down.
(no leaks in the tool itself)

I'm seeing evidence of moisture in the oil fill pipe.

I may try to carefully torque the heads but those bolts look completely untouched...... for years, if ever.

[1931 flamingo]

What do the plugs look like??
Paul in CT

[slowforty]

Consider getting a battery impact wrench. My kid uses a Milwaukee at work on Busses and has no issues removing the Lug nuts without a recharge. The infamous Harbor Freight guns are not bad for Occasional use. Not promoting any certain brands. But offering my experience.

[1948F-1Pickup]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

What do the plugs look like??
Paul in CT

I'll have to pull them and look. Just re-torqued the heads. Three or
four bolts were loose per side. Drove her afterward with a 95-degree
day. Stable temp on the gauge and about a "normal" needle for the
conditions. I'll check tomorrow morning and see where the radiator
level is....