Is it OK that my engine oil is "black" after only 500 miles?

[Pat Martone]

I am very good at changing my oil at 500 miles, and use Rotella 15W-40, but I'm wondering why the oil appears to be so black in color when I drain it?

My engine has about 15,000 miles on it's rebuild, is very clean inside, the babbits are all good and "gapped" properly. The spark plugs deposits look very good; the fuel mixture is not too rich; the timing is perfect, and the engine runs great. I've got great compression with a Snyder 5.5 head with the Snyder-recommended silicone head gasket (which luckily hasn't leaked after about 4000 miles) and there is no "mixing" of coolant and oil in the engine, and the oil breather is unobstructed. I do not drive the car hard, and I am careful not to lug the engine.

I've heard others saying there oil looks fresh after only 500 miles, and I'm wondering why mine is black (but free of any visual particulate matter).

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this issue!

[johnbuckley]

One both of mine I reckon the oil looks like new for the first 200 miles or so. At 500 it is black, I generally change it at 1200-1500 miles . Anything more than 1500 and there is some oil comsumption of about a pint on a long run of say 150 miles

[Jim/GA]

Your oil is black because it is doing its job. In addition to lubrication, it is keeping contaminants in suspension in the oil, to reduce the amount of sludge in your engine. Rotella T is formulated for diesel engine duty, where particulate contamination is a bigger issue than it is with modern gasoline engines, so they have additives in that oil to keep stuff in suspension.

Originally Posted by Pat Martone

I am very good at changing my oil at 500 miles, and use Rotella 15W-40, but I'm wondering why the oil appears to be so black in color when I drain it?

My engine has about 15,000 miles on it's rebuild, is very clean inside, the babbits are all good and "gapped" properly. The spark plugs deposits look very good; the fuel mixture is not too rich; the timing is perfect, and the engine runs great. I've got great compression with a Snyder 5.5 head with the Snyder-recommended silicone head gasket (which luckily hasn't leaked after about 4000 miles) and there is no "mixing" of coolant and oil in the engine, and the oil breather is unobstructed. I do not drive the car hard, and I am careful not to lug the engine.

I've heard others saying there oil looks fresh after only 500 miles, and I'm wondering why mine is black (but free of any visual particulate matter).

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this issue!

[Charlville]

If you are running standard without an oil filter that sounds about right, particularly with a detergent oil? As Jim says the oil is doing its job.

[Uncle Bob]

To add to the above about the detergent/dispersant doing it's job, think of your oil sump as a septic tank. All the "waste" your engine produces (generally by products of combustion process in this case) gets dumped in there.

[olut]

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Hi guys,

Engines without an oil filter require non graded oils, while engines with oil filter require graded oils. Graded oils contain additives, which "eat" the metal on bearing surface in order to provide a perfect Bais for a working lubrication under all conditions. Rapid darkening of the oil indicate a progressing "eating process" inside the engine and proof that a wrong oil is been used. If a filter would be in use, this darkening would not appear so soon.

Also wide range oils are not recommended for engines without oil filter. I don't know Rotella but I guess, it is graded.

I use single range 50W non graded and the oil color did not change after 800mi.

Best Greetings
Albert

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by olut

Hi guys,

Engines without an oil filter require non graded oils, while engines with oil filter require graded oils. Graded oils contain additives, which "eat" the metal on bearing surface...

Best Greetings
Albert

Let me get this straight. In an engine with an oil filter the "graded oil" doesn't "eat" the bearing surface but that same oil in an engine without a filter does "eat" the bearing surface? Only difference is addition of a oil filter? That's amazing...

The reason your non-detergent oil stays clean longer is because it is not cleaning the inside of the engine.

[Brother Hesekiel]

Originally Posted by olut

Hi guys,

I use single range 50W non graded and the oil color did not change after 800mi.

Best Greetings
Albert

I have never read anything as scary as that in regard to oil. No offense intended, but in Austria they would say "Dir ham's ja wohl in's Gehirn gesch*ss'n!"

What do you think how easily 50W syrup lubricates at startup, more so when it's friggin' cold outside, the typical Austrian weather? About 90% of engine wear occurs during the start-up period because oil is just too thick. Ideally, we all would have 0W--whatever we need. In regard to a Ford Model A, that would be 0W-30, unless you drive inside a volcano.

Read this, as it may save you thousands of dollars in engine rebuild costs:
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

[Jim/GA]

I hate oil threads!!!

I usually stay out of them. I thought this one was safe.

(But I agree with these guys)

[dave in australia]

I would have thought 50 weight would be OK for the hot outback regions of Australia, but not Austria. I run multi-grade in my A, 15W-50. If multi-grade eats metal, then my old Valiant I had would have no engine left, it had over 1,000,000 Km on it when I got rid of it.
One other reason oil turns black, is the slight amount of blow by from combustion. An oil filter will remove most of the blow by soot, but the smaller stuff will eventually build up, and that is when you need to change your oil. As others have said, black oil is no problem if you change your oil regularly, around 500 miles without a filter, and you can increase this period if you run a filter.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Jim/TX/GA

I hate oil threads!!!

I agree with you Jim.

But I'm going to add fuel to the fire. Oil (i.e; Rotella, Delo 400, etc.) formulated for a Diesel really shouldn't be used in a gasoline engine.

It has too much detergent and the wrong kind. It will scrub away the 'good stuff' (oil) from your cylinders causing premature ring and cylinder wear.

"Additive Levels

Diesel engine oil has more additives per volume. The most prevalent are overbase detergent additives. This additive has several jobs, but the main ones are to neutralize acids and clean. Diesel engines create a great deal more soot and combustion byproducts. Through blow-by, these find their way into the crankcase, forcing the oil to deal with them. When you put this extra additive load in a gasoline engine, the effects can be devastating to performance. The detergent will work as it is designed and try to clean the cylinder walls. This can have an adverse effect on the seal between the rings and liner, resulting in lost compression and efficiency."

Machinery Lubrication (10/2013)

[daveymc29]

I'm not going to take a chance with my engine, if and when I get it back from the machine shop, that told me a couple of months ago, it'll be ready in about a month. My plan is to run the Rotella oil in it and I will buy a filter, which I will put in my trunk.(boot.)

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

I agree with you Jim.

But I'm going to add fuel to the fire. Oil (i.e; Rotella, Delo 400, etc.) formulated for a Diesel really shouldn't be used in a gasoline engine.

It has too much detergent and the wrong kind. It will scrub away the 'good stuff' (oil) from your cylinders causing premature ring and cylinder wear.

"Additive Levels

Diesel engine oil has more additives per volume. The most prevalent are overbase detergent additives. This additive has several jobs, but the main ones are to neutralize acids and clean. Diesel engines create a great deal more soot and combustion byproducts. Through blow-by, these find their way into the crankcase, forcing the oil to deal with them. When you put this extra additive load in a gasoline engine, the effects can be devastating to performance. The detergent will work as it is designed and try to clean the cylinder walls. This can have an adverse effect on the seal between the rings and liner, resulting in lost compression and efficiency."

Machinery Lubrication (10/2013)

Interesting, tried to find that article but couldn't . I've been using those oils for 26,000 miles, doesn't burn a drop and I like the added protection of the zinc.
It sounds like if the detergent, additives can't find guck, then it quits lubricating the cylinder walls. In other words without guck to absorb, it absorbs or eats itself and quits sticking to the walls. Am I understanding this correctly?

[Boston Bruce]

Nothing like another good oil discussion.

[Jim/GA]

"Additive Levels

Diesel engine oil has more additives per volume. The most prevalent are overbase detergent additives. This additive has several jobs, but the main ones are to neutralize acids and clean. Diesel engines create a great deal more soot and combustion byproducts. Through blow-by, these find their way into the crankcase, forcing the oil to deal with them. When you put this extra additive load in a gasoline engine, the effects can be devastating to performance. The detergent will work as it is designed and try to clean the cylinder walls. This can have an adverse effect on the seal between the rings and liner, resulting in lost compression and efficiency."

Machinery Lubrication (10/2013)

I do not agree with the above quote from "Machinery Lubrication". I don't know who they are or what the basis is for their statement.

Rotella T 15W40 is API rated to be both a diesel oil and a gasoline engine oil.

See: http://www.shell.com/rotella/products/tpl-pro.html

There is a box on that page, repeated below, that lists all the various ratings. It is hard to read because there are so many all lumped together. But you will find:

API CJ-4, CJ-4 PLUS, CH-4, CF... these are all diesel engine ratings (starting with C means compression ignition, i.e. diesel)

API SM, SL, SJ, SH... beginning with S means these are all "spark ignition" ratings, i.e. gasoline engines





The notion that too much additives will try to clean the cylinder walls and result in low compression is so bizarre, I don't even know how to respond. I have complete faith in Shell to produce an oil that is not going to harm our engines. I don't know who the authors of "Machinery Lubrication" are, so I don't trust their opinion.

At the end of the day, everyone is going to do what they feel is best for their vehicle. I feel Shell Rotella T 15W40 is a great oil for our vehicles across a wide range of ambient temperatures, so I use it.

BTW, I appreciate everyone keeping this discussion civil.

[msmaron]

I just changed to this OIL..BRAD PENN 15x/40 .and have found it very very good, it has a great lubrication feature in it and helps control friction. Its green so when it turn black its time to change it. Usually around 2500-3K miles.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[MikeK]

Let's take a look at why piston engine oil turns black. Although minor wear of metallics does put some micro-fines into solution, the primary black colorant is Bucky Balls ! ((Buckminsterfullerenes, IUPAC ID: (C60-Ih)[5,6]fullerene)).

These are a product of incomplete combustion of hydrocarbons. They are so small they easily pass through the finest oil filters. VanDerWaals forces keep them in solution, they do not settle out of oil. Everybody knows the stoichiometric "ideal" is ~14.7, but that is strictly a lab figure. Pat (the O.P.) stated that everything was set correctly and the mixture is "not too rich". This is relative to a particular engine's build and running conditions.

ALL infernal combustion engines produce this dusty form of carbon to some degree. Old tech engines produce about 10x as many Bucky Balls as modern engines that run much leaner and leave surfaces at hot enough temperature to promote secondary oxidation of the BB's. Despite an engine being adjusted for an apparently good mixture and clean plugs, temperature of the components matters. An engine that runs relatively cold at 140 will deposit the black on combustion chambers, plugs, piston tops, and cyl walls. The plugs will (should) be physically hot enough to promote secondary oxidation and remain clean. When walls get scraped by the rings the stuff then blackens the oil.

The big clue as to whether an engine will blacken the oil soon or not is the combustion chambers and the piston tops. Despite clean gray plugs, an engine with black deposits on the chambers and pistons will soon blacken the oil. An engine that has only dusty gray on the chambers and pistons will not blacken the oil so soon. You will find these engines run at higher temps, 180+, and decidedly lean.

[Pat Martone]

Thanks for all of the replies to my original post.
I learned something from everyone.
BTW - my engine uses a 180 degree thermostat in the cooling system.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Jim/TX/GA

I do not agree with the above quote from "Machinery Lubrication". I don't know who they are or what the basis is for their statement.

Google is your friend... http://www.machinerylubrication.com

[bikejunk]

why does my engine oil(5-20)in my 2002 F150 turn black after 1,000 miles with an oil filter? it has done this for the last 200,000 miles should I be concerned?