Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-25-2015, 01:11 PM   #1
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

In the past few years I have read conflicting information concerning the number of prototypes of the 130-A Deluxe Deliveries made in the Oct- Dec 1928 time frame. I read one place it was 5, another source was 15 and yet another it was 50. I know of 7 that claim to be 1928's. I plan to at some point document and hopefully find a way to tell the differences if any. In various ( not all sections) seem to elude to the pkssibility, but none confirm their existance and the production numbers do not mention any. Does anybody have or know of any Ford documentation that would confirm the number? Thanks Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

Last edited by Rowdy; 08-25-2015 at 02:02 PM.
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 03:25 PM   #2
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Thanks to Vince's earlier post here is the only known proof the prototypes were possible in 1928. This along with some parts drawings dated in Oct of 28 seem to be the only credible evidence I have so far.

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/EGBudd130ADelivery.htm

The date on the pictures Vince has on his site beg some questions:

1) Was this the first one produced by Budd?

2) If this was the first or even the 50th, why did it take until late March of 29 for The first of the production run to roll off the assembly line?

Just some thoughts that come to mind. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

Last edited by Rowdy; 08-25-2015 at 06:38 PM.
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-25-2015, 07:14 PM   #3
DJ S
Senior Member
 
DJ S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southwick, MA
Posts: 588
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

This is very interesting information... I didn't know Budd played such a big role in designing and producing some of the Model A bodies. I wish you luck Rowdy in finding wood for your Deluxe Delivery. If there was any way I or anyone could help. Unfortunately I don't know of anyone that owns a '29 deluxe delivery. Tomorrow, I'll ask around and see if anyone in my local club knows of anyone that has one or has a great deal of information on them.

Last edited by DJ S; 08-25-2015 at 07:15 PM. Reason: Typo
DJ S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 07:31 PM   #4
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Greatly appriciated. As I sent a PM to some of the other 3 people looking for wood, but did not post here in case it does not yield anything. I spoke to Don Graves late last week and he has a customer that is bringing in another 130-A for restoration. Its wood is more complete than mine or what Dons was when he bought it. Don is going to call me when it comes to the shop and I will make the 4 hr trip to Omaha and bring the wood I have and hope we can piece a complete set together. After he is done I will likely have the chance to buy the wood from the owner. So other than keeping it somewhat on the first few pages in the swap section I am giving the hunt a rest and will spend more energy on research and work on the delivery as I can. Hoping this works out and if you stumble onto something don't be afraid to call or PM.


Also with the lack of info I am finding so far with this research I am having a hard time beleiving any Deluxe Deliveries made in 1928 or any with drum tail lights even though there is a drum tail light bracket listed in the Ford Parts List for them. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

Last edited by Rowdy; 08-25-2015 at 07:58 PM.
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 07:58 PM   #5
glenn in camino
Senior Member
 
glenn in camino's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Camino, CA.
Posts: 3,086
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

My delivery is a 1930, and is the best tour car I've ever had.
Glenn
glenn in camino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 10:24 PM   #6
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Glen, I am hoping mine is as good. Making only 3 real changes, downdraft carb, interior color and 39 transmission so my wife can drive it also. She does not double clutch well and I do not want to have to replace the transmission once every couple of years. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 10:56 PM   #7
Steve Plucker
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Walla Walla, Washington USA
Posts: 6,066
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Rowdy,

You have an advertisement coming your way.

Pluck
Steve Plucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 11:08 PM   #8
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Thanks Steve. I owe you several beers if I ever make it to a national meet. Looking forward to seeing what direction this takes the research. Based on what little info I currently have seen I do not believe they existed anywhere except on paper until 12-13-1928. Waiting to see if I am right or wrong.

I am not trying to make enemies with those that claim to have 28's as it is likely with their usefulness these bodies could have been put on 28 chassis sometime in the past when their chassis became worn out. I have no idea when during production mine might have been made as it lost its original chassis sometime before 1954 and there was no firewall date on the tank. I was lucky to find a March/ April of 29 chassis and March of 29 tank. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

Last edited by Rowdy; 08-25-2015 at 11:16 PM.
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2015, 04:27 AM   #9
Bick in New Zealand
Senior Member
 
Bick in New Zealand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Napier New Zealand
Posts: 931
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

"Also with the lack of info I am finding so far with this research I am having a hard time beleiving any Deluxe Deliveries made in 1928 or any with drum tail lights even though there is a drum tail light bracket listed in the Ford Parts List for them. "

Rod in the Ford Life Magazine Vol 1 Number 3, Is an article on the Jewel Tea, deliveries. There are several original photos which show a drum tail light, one also displays a 1928 Number plate.
__________________
1928 Roadster (CA67)
1931 Deluxe Coupe RHD
1931 Victoria RHD


Model A's don't leak oil they just mark their territory.
Bick in New Zealand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2015, 06:21 AM   #10
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Thanks Bick. Maybe this search for the 1928 prototypes is not in vane then. Hoping to find out how many were made and other than the Oct-Dec timeline that seems to be suggested if there is any way to tell the difference. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2015, 01:50 PM   #11
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

I have been in contact with the archivest for EG Budd via email . I will post findings when I get them. It might be a couple of weeks depending on what is found and how much there is to sift through. Hoping for alot of info, but will be happy with one page with the right info.

For those of you that have 1928 Deluxe Deliveries or know of someone who does I could sure use firewall dates and engine/frame numbers, whichever is original to the car. It will be interesting to see how all of the info out there stacks up with the records I hope to uncover. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

Last edited by Rowdy; 08-26-2015 at 09:30 PM.
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2015, 08:52 PM   #12
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

I spoke with Clair Morrison this afternoon and in the past he spoke with Les Andrews about the Jewel Tea company Deliveries. Seems there were apox 200 of these sold to the Jewel Tea company in Febuary of 29. I am wondering if these are the ones mistaken for the 28 prototypes. Using the 90 day usage for parts it would be possible for these to have 1928 engine numbers and firewall dates as far back as November 1928. Waiting to see what info I get from Budd. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 02:37 AM   #13
Bick in New Zealand
Senior Member
 
Bick in New Zealand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Napier New Zealand
Posts: 931
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Here are the pictures of the Jewel T delivery.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Jewel T 2.jpg (95.8 KB, 216 views)
File Type: jpg Jewel T.jpg (67.6 KB, 181 views)
File Type: jpg Jewel T 3.jpg (120.1 KB, 172 views)
__________________
1928 Roadster (CA67)
1931 Deluxe Coupe RHD
1931 Victoria RHD


Model A's don't leak oil they just mark their territory.
Bick in New Zealand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 02:24 PM   #14
Bick in New Zealand
Senior Member
 
Bick in New Zealand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Napier New Zealand
Posts: 931
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

That's fascinating Vince, how can you tell ?
I have seen a picture of a Briggs conversion. Another interesting fact about these 130-As is I can find no listing for them in 1929 Ford Canada production, yet have seen photos of them displaying Canadian features.
__________________
1928 Roadster (CA67)
1931 Deluxe Coupe RHD
1931 Victoria RHD


Model A's don't leak oil they just mark their territory.
Bick in New Zealand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 04:50 PM   #15
southfork
Senior Member
 
southfork's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 416
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy View Post
I spoke with Clair Morrison this afternoon and in the past he spoke with Les Andrews about the Jewel Tea company Deliveries. Seems there were apox 200 of these sold to the Jewel Tea company in Febuary of 29. I am wondering if these are the ones mistaken for the 28 prototypes. Using the 90 day usage for parts it would be possible for these to have 1928 engine numbers and firewall dates as far back as November 1928. Waiting to see what info I get from Budd. Rod
That is probably how it happened that some 130-As got 1928 features, but maybe there actually were some made earlier than we think.

Rod, I looked at my Deluxe Delivery project to see if there was any wood remaining good enough for patterns, and struck out.
southfork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 05:58 PM   #16
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Here is the email reply I received fron the Hagely Archives that have most of what is left of the EG Budd records. Not the news I was hoping for, but atleast now I know where the records are not. Doubting much exist as this would have been the most likely source. Rod

Dear Mr. Gage,

Unfortunately there are no materials in the Budd Company records that can answer your questions. The Budd collections here at Hagley are very small and fragmentary, consisting only of a few subject files, some historical materials, and items that document some of the company’s properties in Philadelphia. There are no production records or even lists of companies for which they produced auto-bodies. I am not aware of any Budd materials at other repositories, so I am unable to suggest other places to look.

I am sorry that we are unable to help you further with your research. Please let us know if there is anything else we can do for you.


Best regards,
Lucas R. Clawson
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 06:33 PM   #17
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Jack, Thanks for looking. Will be posting pics of the pieces I have so far on my last post about the wood. I do not plan to keep on the full court press on finding much more until my trip to Omaha this fall. Although I will not hesitate to try to aquire pieces that might pop up if it fills a void as the delivery Don Graves is getting ready to roll in has some pieces missing also.Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 07:33 PM   #18
Tudortomnz
Senior Member
 
Tudortomnz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canterbury, New Zealand
Posts: 1,242
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forever4 View Post
THose are not the same construction bodies as a production US 130-A body. same concept, but all different parts.
This is all interesting stuff.
The Briggs rear door kit jobs, examples of which exist in the US, Europe & there were even a few sold here in NZ, were converted from the Tudor, but the Tea car Bick shows appears to be the Deluxe Delivery?
I have 2 pics of the Commercial Tudors [Delivery]. taken new in Germany, both have the normal Tudor body joint, with the early one with a narrow door, but the '30 model has the door from join to join. The 2 I have seen here in NZ are also the same.
More information please as this is intriguing.

Last edited by Tudortomnz; 08-27-2015 at 07:40 PM.
Tudortomnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 11:13 PM   #19
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Give me time Tom. I am with Vince as not hearing about the Briggs rear door kit as a fact. I suspected at one point that Briggs suplied the rear door panel and door, but found no information to back it up. I do know that the door latch striker on the 130-A is identical to that used on the 60-B sedan. The hinges are identical shape externally to those on the Murray fordors except the hinge pin head size. Shared sources or other explainations? Thoughts on those details are welcome. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 11:16 PM   #20
Steve Plucker
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Walla Walla, Washington USA
Posts: 6,066
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bick in New Zealand View Post
That's fascinating Vince, how can you tell ?
I have seen a picture of a Briggs conversion. Another interesting fact about these 130-As is I can find no listing for them in 1929 Ford Canada production, yet have seen photos of them displaying Canadian features.

Not sure if the following would be 1929 or 1930 modles but Walkerville reported:

October 1929: 26 "Deluxe Panels"
November 1929: 28 "Deluxe Panels"

From 1929 Monthly production sheets from the Ford Archives.

(I have all of the monthly production sheets from October 1929 {minus December 1929} through 1932) Unfortunatly 1928 through September 1929 are missing.

Pluck
Steve Plucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 11:26 PM   #21
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

You are not wrong. No T strips between the quarter panels and back panel either. Nice looking, just some differences. Also the angle of the back compared to the rear fenders is slightly different. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 12:54 AM   #22
Tudortomnz
Senior Member
 
Tudortomnz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canterbury, New Zealand
Posts: 1,242
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

I can not recall hard evidence for Briggs providing a rear door kit to convert a Tudor in the Model A era, but Dave Rehor [ The 1932 Ford Book, early V8 Club] has this information for the Sedan Delivery done in late 1932 when Ford appeared reluctant to supply a Sedan Delivery. Also I have pictures provided by Bick of a '33 '34 Tudor by Ford Canada with a description of the rear door conversion by Briggs.
Hopefully Bick will put these pics up [ I have given up trying to post photos here] but I do now recall reading that a fleet of Tudors converted to deliveries in 1928 by the Milwaukee City Council were done by Briggs. There was someone who owned one of these Milwaukee Deliveries on this site, he put up photos & that was probably where I read it. I have a picture of one of these US Tudor Deliveries in my file.

Last edited by Tudortomnz; 08-28-2015 at 03:20 AM.
Tudortomnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-28-2015, 09:30 AM   #23
Dennis Haag
Member
 
Dennis Haag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 42
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Hello, I have the delivery conversion that the city of Milwaukee had. I presumed the conversion was a Briggs from a picture in a early Restorer magazine. After seeing the Budd conversion I am not sure. There was also a insert for the window area offered for displaying products. I have not started to restore this vehicle and I am hoping to find more information. Milwaukee still has purchase req's on file which may shed some light on the vehicle. Talking with a retired supervisor with the DPW He remembers these vehicles and were used into the early 50's. I am hoping to start this project next year. Nice posts very interesting. I have posted pictures in past posts.
__________________
DRHAAG
Dennis Haag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 09:32 AM   #24
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

For those of you that have searched for a needle in a haystack at the Benson I have a few questions.

Do the records contain letters etc between Ford and different suppliers?

If so, how are they sorted? By date, by supplier or just a random collection?

Thanks

Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 10:03 AM   #25
Fordors
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Orland Park,IL
Posts: 1,400
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

I have been following this thread since it started but until Briggs was mentioned I didn't want to post, as I thought the information I had might be wrong. Sorensen, in his "The Commercial Fords" opens the chapter on Sedan Deliveries with these comments; Jewel Tea came calling on Ford with a proposal to purchase several hundred delivery cars with a door in back. Having found Model T sedans to be handy delivery cars Jewel's fleet man felt by eliminating the rear seat and adding a rear door the perfect vehicle could be had.
Briggs was contacted almost immediately and a proposal was drawn up to take a few Tudors and work up some samples and cost estimates on a back door conversion. The idea would be to simply block out the rear side windows, add the load deck and cut the back panel and construct a door. Briggs at the time owned LeBaron and it was LB craftsmen that finalized the details and produced the first body for approval. Jewel liked it and Ford authorized production to begin, with bodies being shipped to assembly plants in November 1928 to be dropped on regular production Model A chassis and shipped as 1929 models.
Sorensen commented that by the time 1929 production had ended more than 7000 were on the road. It is here I think the story must be annotated because of the photos provided by Vince. Did LB build the 200 Jewel SD's, but then the contract went to Budd to produce stampings and assembled bodies for regular Ford sales, as compared to the initial Jewel purchase order?
Moving on in time in 1932 Jewel and other firms could not buy the Ford SD, it had been replaced by the larger Panel Delivery. Drivers found them to be "unbearably hot" compared to the car based delivery and further many cities did not allow trucks on boulevards so some deliveries could not be accomplished by the truck based Panel Delivery. Chicago to this day has a commercial truck ban on boulevards.
Seeing orders go to Chevrolet Ford surveyed it's dealers for potential sales and decided to have LeBaron convert Tudors again with Iron Mountain to produce the wood components. Production began on Sept. 26, 1932, so consequently less than 500 '32 were built. For 1933 through 1940, according to Sorensen, even though Ford built it's own bodies Briggs built the deliveries not as made over Tudors but with uniquely built coachwork.
I have no idea if Lorin Sorensen was right or wrong but this information might lead to further research that will confirm the Briggs/LeBaron side of the story.
__________________
My school colors are black and blue, I attended the School of Hard Knocks where I received a Masters Degree in Chronic Mopery.
Fordors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 12:54 PM   #26
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
I think I remember reading this article several years ago and would have to dig to find it. I wish he would have mentioned his source. It seems possible that the transition from Briggs modifications and Budd's full production models could explain the parts drawing changes in Dec. of 28. As far as the rear door and panel wood it is a near wholesale change. I really need to do a comparison as some of the story is the changes within the whole assembly. Just some thoughts from someone who worked in manufacturing for 18 years. Seemed every supplier change began or ended with blue print changes.

If this is the case it also begs the question. Did Briggs continue to provide the wood and hardware to Budd? Since Budd seems to be mainly focused on metal construction and stamping. This would make sence to me, but may not seem rational to others.Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

Last edited by Rowdy; 08-28-2015 at 01:10 PM.
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 01:17 PM   #27
brito36
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Marengo. Illinois
Posts: 258
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Did you come across anything dealing with the 1929 Tudor Sedans that were fitted with a sedan delivery rear door? I saw one several years ago, and none since.
brito36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 01:25 PM   #28
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Not yet. It will not be until next year sometime that I will be able to go to the Benson. Since I do not know exactly what I am looking for to this point I do not know what to ask for. I presume the info will be in corespondence between Ford and Budd and possibly Briggs. I think going there will be more productive than paying them a fee per hour and coming out with nothing. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 01:48 PM   #29
CarlG
Senior Member
 
CarlG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 9,109
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brito36 View Post
Did you come across anything dealing with the 1929 Tudor Sedans that were fitted with a sedan delivery rear door? I saw one several years ago, and none since.
Apparently someone makes a kit for doing this:

http://webrodder.com/article/model-a...an-delivery-24
__________________
Alaskan A's
Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska
Model A Ford Club of America
Model A Restorers Club
Antique Automobile Club of America
Mullins Owner's Club
CarlG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 01:53 PM   #30
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

The modern kit is fiberglass. The one sold in the 30's was steel. I think I seen the advertisement for it in a 1932 or 1933 edition of Automobile Digest. I would have to call the friend of mine that has the collection and see if I can borrow them to see who made and/or sold them. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 04:37 PM   #31
Bick in New Zealand
Senior Member
 
Bick in New Zealand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Napier New Zealand
Posts: 931
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Here is the Briggs Delivery
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Briggs conversion.jpg (68.5 KB, 256 views)
__________________
1928 Roadster (CA67)
1931 Deluxe Coupe RHD
1931 Victoria RHD


Model A's don't leak oil they just mark their territory.
Bick in New Zealand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 07:10 PM   #32
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

I thought I read on here a couple years ago that the sedan delivery had a body a few inches longer than the Tudor car. Or, maybe it was just the window blankout panel was a few inches longer than the car window opening?
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 07:23 PM   #33
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

The add panel of the production 130-A made by Budd is longer than the quarter window of the tudor. I believe the pictures are on Ahooga. However the conversion made by Briggs etc often were just a back panel with door and a floor kit that could be bolted in the tudor once the rear seat and riser were removed. Unless there is more to this than what I understand. Filling in the window with riveted panels and some lead filler would have been easy to complete the look. I have a lot to look for to try to get the full story. So it will take me a good while with my limited budget and possibly absence of a paper trail after this many years. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2015, 11:52 PM   #34
Tudortomnz
Senior Member
 
Tudortomnz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canterbury, New Zealand
Posts: 1,242
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Rowdy you are right in the description of Tudor Delivery [ a conversion] & the Ford Deluxe Delivery which had a longer rear side panel where the Tudor window is. The DD. has the longer rain guttering which is obvious against the look of the Tudor gutter, roof fabric & window edge. The Tudor conversions usually have operating side windows or else filled with board although one has appeared on this site from Sth America with metal over the openings & one I know here had metal put in when it became a rod.
The pic. Bick posted appears to be a regular Deluxe Delivery to me, [ except for the side display board] unless it is some rare prototype with lead filled rear body joins & side opening windows!

Last edited by Tudortomnz; 08-29-2015 at 12:00 AM.
Tudortomnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 09:59 AM   #35
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Tom, you are correct, but to me the add panel looks more like a window in this pic. Maybe its my monitor, but the length looks very close to a regular 130-A. Does anyone have any Ford documentation of the Briggs conversion? It appears based on where most of these photo's were taken that it was mainly for the foreign markets. I could not locate the picture of the difference in Ahooga's Picture Gallery, so here are some pic's that show the difference in length. When I take my DD body back apart I will try to duplicate the picture of the difference side by side. Thanks Rod
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IM004571.jpg (72.9 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg IM004556.jpg (87.7 KB, 71 views)
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 10:35 AM   #36
Brad in Germany
Senior Member
 
Brad in Germany's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Potomac, Maryland
Posts: 909
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Here's the one from Germany that I posted in 2011 (note the window crank handle):



Fordially,
Brad in Germany (now in Maryland)
Brad in Germany is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 01:09 PM   #37
Deluxe Delivery Don
Senior Member
 
Deluxe Delivery Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mill Creek WA.
Posts: 341
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forever4 View Post
This truck's rear and side panel construction is not at all like a 130-A. There is no joint, and also the door top and drip rail construction is all different. The door window also appears smaller.

Also note the T handle shape and location as well - different.

Rod can certainly clarify, and correct me if I am wrong.

Also the rear door has 4 hinges
Deluxe Delivery Don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 01:10 PM   #38
Deluxe Delivery Don
Senior Member
 
Deluxe Delivery Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mill Creek WA.
Posts: 341
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Plucker View Post
Not sure if the following would be 1929 or 1930 modles but Walkerville reported:

October 1929: 26 "Deluxe Panels"
November 1929: 28 "Deluxe Panels"

From 1929 Monthly production sheets from the Ford Archives.

(I have all of the monthly production sheets from October 1929 {minus December 1929} through 1932) Unfortunatly 1928 through September 1929 are missing.

Pluck
What about Sedan Deliveries
Deluxe Delivery Don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 03:47 PM   #39
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

These are all interesting. However I would love to see some Ford documentation showing Briggs supplied them. Even aftermarket advertising would be fun to throw into the mix. Is there anything in the foreign markets Ford part books showing this for sale as a kit? Thinking that some coach works overseas made their own versions to add to the Budd made tudor. After looking at Brads on my monitor it does seem to have an odd looking floor. Thanks Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 05:23 PM   #40
Tudortomnz
Senior Member
 
Tudortomnz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canterbury, New Zealand
Posts: 1,242
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

I have a picture of the 1930 '31 Tudor Commercial Delivery as available here in NZ.
It is from the NZ Truck catalogue of Colonial Motor Co.NZ, distributors for Ford Canada before Ford NZ establishment in 1936.
I will try & put it up here, but I do not find the system easy .
They had wooden floors similar to the DD. The model was exactly the same as Brads German pic, even the rear door, which is hinged correctly for RHD. There is belief that these were done thru Colonial , but I have my doubts. A few may well have been done in later years, as it was known to have been done by local body firms [ eg. Steel Bros. in CHCH].
The new price was the same as a Tudor, so how did they make a profit on all the conversion work?
Bick has put the NZ Catalogue C. Tudor picture up here on previous discussions of this topic.

Last edited by Tudortomnz; 08-29-2015 at 05:44 PM.
Tudortomnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2015, 07:25 PM   #41
Tudortomnz
Senior Member
 
Tudortomnz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canterbury, New Zealand
Posts: 1,242
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Here goes'...... from the 1931 [ Oct] NZ New Ford Trucks brochure.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Email001.jpg (22.1 KB, 95 views)
Tudortomnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 10:48 AM   #42
WTSHNN
Senior Member
 
WTSHNN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,413
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...7&d=1295926160
__________________
No one wants advice - only corroboration.
-John Steinbeck
WTSHNN is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-30-2015, 11:13 AM   #43
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Is there an approx date on this somewhere? Thanks Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 01:47 PM   #44
Fordors
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Orland Park,IL
Posts: 1,400
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

This information is for the 1932 B-410 Sedan Delivery but I think it still gives some insight into the profit potential for a Briggs/LeBaron converted Tudor. The suggested retail for a B-55 Tudor was $450 and the B-410 Sedan Delivery was priced at $520.
In the first letter, dated Aug.30, 1932 it states that the conversion at LB cost $90 for a Tudor shipped to LB at dealer expense and the second letter, Sept. 26th, quotes the $520 price, arrived at for a SD shipped direct from Detroit.
While not a direct comparison to the pricing of the Model A delivery I thought it interesting that one could have the conversion done for $90.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg scan0109.jpg (46.2 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg scan0110.jpg (38.3 KB, 19 views)
__________________
My school colors are black and blue, I attended the School of Hard Knocks where I received a Masters Degree in Chronic Mopery.
Fordors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 02:06 PM   #45
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Thanks, that is interesting. Still the conversion is about 1/6 the cost of a factory built delivery. Which would equate to about 5K in todays money. Still seems cheap as compared to today. I do not think this would include labor. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 02:38 PM   #46
Fordors
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Orland Park,IL
Posts: 1,400
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy View Post
Thanks, that is interesting. Still the conversion is about 1/6 the cost of a factory built delivery. Which would equate to about 5K in todays money. Still seems cheap as compared to today. I do not think this would include labor. Rod
On the contrary Rod, I think it did include labor. The following excerpt is from http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/b/briggs/briggs.htm

"For example in 1929, both Briggs and Murray supplied Ford with identical Model 155 town sedan bodies. The Murray body cost Ford $237.98 while the Briggs body cost eight dollars less, $229.71. The amount of profit allowed by Ford was typically ten percent. So to an outside observer it appears that Briggs made a $23 profit on every Model 155 town sedan body sold to Ford. Unfortunately for Ford’s suppliers, they had to pay for their labor, overhead, capital expenses and stockholder dividends out of their 10% “profit”."

Briggs has been said to have been a ruthless employer and during the depths of the Depression I'm sure craftsmen worked cheaply; if one man didn't want the job there were plenty more waiting for the opportunity.
__________________
My school colors are black and blue, I attended the School of Hard Knocks where I received a Masters Degree in Chronic Mopery.
Fordors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 03:28 PM   #47
Bick in New Zealand
Senior Member
 
Bick in New Zealand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Napier New Zealand
Posts: 931
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

The photo of the 'Briggs' 130-A was one of Lorin Sorenson's. I should have posted it with the attached text. Sorenson is usually pretty reliable from my experience. I have no other evidence that Briggs produced these, however I have attached a 1935 brochure showing a Briggs conversion.
Great thread and why I enjoy Fordbarn so much.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Briggs Delivery Words.jpg (71.4 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg 1935 Two-Purpose Small.jpg (64.0 KB, 48 views)
__________________
1928 Roadster (CA67)
1931 Deluxe Coupe RHD
1931 Victoria RHD


Model A's don't leak oil they just mark their territory.
Bick in New Zealand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 11:34 PM   #48
Brad in Germany
Senior Member
 
Brad in Germany's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Potomac, Maryland
Posts: 909
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Here is one for sale on German eBay where it was converted to a Tudor:



Model A Tudor Delivery



Brad in Maryland
Brad in Germany is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 12:14 AM   #49
Deluxe Delivery Don
Senior Member
 
Deluxe Delivery Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mill Creek WA.
Posts: 341
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

I know this is a 130-A Thread , but Brad reminded me of a 130-B Deluxe Delivery that was at a Car Show that I attended with my Delivery. It's a 130-B Delivery that was used by a Funeral Home in the Tacoma Area back in the 1930's. The owner had all of the documents to prove that it is not an after market truck.He told me that about 200 were converted with windows. Everything is the same has a regular 130-B except no solid panel. If you look closely you can see the wood post in the middle of the window which is in all 130-B Deliveries. It was used to carry flowers from the funeral home to cemetery.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FLOWER Truck.jpg (73.2 KB, 81 views)
File Type: jpg 130-B.JPG (294.9 KB, 73 views)
File Type: jpg DSC02044.jpg (86.5 KB, 65 views)
Deluxe Delivery Don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 05:31 AM   #50
Joop
Senior Member
 
Joop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,939
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

I was told that they installed a rear door in a Tudor in Europe to get a lower road tax as it was a listed as a business vehicle.
Joop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2015, 06:35 AM   #51
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

I had considered making a swing out bracket for a Kari Keen trunk. But after considering the length and weight of the trunk plus any contents it looked as though it would sag too much to get it to latch if ever used. Scrapped the idea as there is already plenty of storage room and sold the trunk and bracket. I do not think the way that one was done is very practical. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 10:19 PM   #52
Brad in Germany
Senior Member
 
Brad in Germany's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Potomac, Maryland
Posts: 909
Default Tudor Delivery

Saw this Tudor Delivery for sale in Germany if any one might be interested. Looks like it was a former bakery delivery truck from France maybe....based on the dash plaque:




It is for sale at this link to Auto Kraul for 19,949 Euro (about $21,837 at today's exchange rate).

....or on German eBay

Fordially,
Brad in Maryland
Brad in Germany is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2016, 02:45 PM   #53
Dennis Haag
Member
 
Dennis Haag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 42
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Sedan Delivery 28-29 005.jpg

Sedan Delivery 28-29 006.jpg

P1010023.jpg

P1010026.jpgI have posted these before and still looking for information. My thinking is the city of Milwaukee Wi order from Ford Fleet Services. a local body co (carry over from Model T days) did the conversion for the city. The frame is early 28 and the motor number is Jan 1929. It did at one time have a drum taillight.
__________________
DRHAAG
Dennis Haag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 06:56 PM   #54
hotroddaddy
Member
 
hotroddaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 86
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Does anyone know who makes the 1928-29 Ford Sedan delivery conversion for the 28-29 Ford Model A Tudor Sedan? Now that Gibbon Fiberglass Reproductions is no longer in business?

[email protected]
__________________
JOHN GARNER
San Antonio, Texas
http://txratrodproject.weebly.com
hotroddaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2023, 10:13 AM   #55
jamesivta
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 28
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Not sure if anyone will read this. This thread is very old, but I do have more confirmation of a 1928 Preproduction Deluxe Deliver. In George DeAngelis book "The Ford Model A" As Henry Built it. On page 113 is a photo of a 1928 preproduction Deluxe Delivery, the caption reads "First Deluxe Delivery preproduction model, November, 1928". I have what I believe is a preproduction 1928 Deluxe Delivery that I inherited from my Father who fully restored it from 2003-2005.
jamesivta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2023, 10:35 AM   #56
Stretch Cab
Senior Member
 
Stretch Cab's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lexington, NC
Posts: 694
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

I read it. Very interesting and we keep learning..................
__________________
Let us live so that when we come to die, even the undertaker will be sorry. Mark Twain
Stretch Cab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2023, 11:15 AM   #57
jamesivta
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 28
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

You are so spot on. My Father found his in Indiana about 70 miles from Chicago. I had been stored in a barn for about 50 years. It was assembled in the Ford Chicago plant. This was his 6th model A restoration so he was very knowledgable about Model A's. His delivery had a may 1928 engine, and was originally built on an AR Chasis. So unlike the production models the handbrake on his is on the left side of the driver. It also had the single drum tail light on left side in the rear. He also said it had a number of unusual parts that had been used in the original build, some appeared to be Model T parts. His research indicated that EG Budd had built a certain number of Delivery bodies in 1928 and he shipped them to some of the ford plants. The Delivery production lines were not ready to start production yet. So, some of the ford plants took existing parts including available AR Chasis' and basically put some preproduction cars together by hand. They were probably used by some dealerships as display models to start taking orders. Production models did not arrive until March of 1929, original cost I believe was $595.
Here is a youtube link to a video I made of my Delivery if anyone wants to take a look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCLMv-DukD4
jamesivta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2023, 11:56 AM   #58
jb-ob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 631
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Jim,

In an effort to maintain your Father's story, I suggest replacing that 1980's Shay reproduction Model A wheel with a correct 1928-9 spare.
jb-ob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2023, 12:15 PM   #59
jamesivta
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 28
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Thank you JB!!! Much appreciated. Any other thoughts on the vehicle?
jamesivta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2023, 01:57 PM   #60
WTSHNN
Senior Member
 
WTSHNN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,413
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Have you looked for a date stamp on the gas tank yet? I think JB suggested that in the other thread.

-Tim
__________________
No one wants advice - only corroboration.
-John Steinbeck
WTSHNN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2023, 03:51 PM   #61
ModelA29
Senior Member
 
ModelA29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Location: SoCal
Posts: 558
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordors View Post
The amount of profit allowed by Ford was typically ten percent. So to an outside observer it appears that Briggs made a $23 profit on every Model 155 town sedan body sold to Ford. Unfortunately for Ford’s suppliers, they had to pay for their labor, overhead, capital expenses and stockholder dividends out of their 10% “profit”.

Ford still has the "profit cap" in their contracts for suppliers. That is why most of the suppliers keep 2 sets of books.
ModelA29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2023, 06:17 PM   #62
lrf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: long beach ca
Posts: 168
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

There is a Deluxe(?) Panel, 28 or 29, sitting in front of the Boudin Bakery in Disneyland California Adventure. Looks like the photos that are on this page. There is no info about this "A" anywhere near the car but it's definitely a panel "A". Hope this helps. LRF
lrf is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 07-11-2023, 06:30 PM   #63
lrf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: long beach ca
Posts: 168
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Just looked up Disneyland California a Adventure "Boudin Bakery tours" and there is a deluxe panel sitting there. Plenty of pictures too. LRF
lrf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2023, 11:57 PM   #64
Brad in Germany
Senior Member
 
Brad in Germany's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Potomac, Maryland
Posts: 909
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrf View Post
Just looked up Disneyland California a Adventure "Boudin Bakery tours" and there is a deluxe panel sitting there. Plenty of pictures too. LRF
.....this one:




Brad in Maryland

Last edited by Brad in Germany; 07-12-2023 at 12:03 AM.
Brad in Germany is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2023, 09:27 AM   #65
jamesivta
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 28
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Didn't see a date stamp on the gas tank. It has a couple coats of paint on it, I do see some indentions in the paint where the stamp should be but definitely nothing readable. Its possible the tank was replaced during restoration.
jamesivta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2023, 11:36 AM   #66
jb-ob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 631
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Jim, 90 years later a gas tank could have been changed....or even a chassis.

Having a tail lamp bracket bolted to the lower body sub-rail is a '28 'item' vs. the common '29 tail lamp on the r/r fender.

Manage your expectations regarding the Benson Archives which consists mostly of Ford blue prints etc. Information from body sub-contractors usually was retained & destroyed by the contractor as they went out of business or got sold. All that 'golden' info became land fill.

You need to explore all the differences of your Father's car vs other '29 DD's, starting based gas tank dates.

Enjoy your quest, jb
jb-ob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2023, 01:16 PM   #67
jamesivta
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 28
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Hi JB, many thanks again. That was great advice. I went through all the original notes on this delivery, other research materials and then compared it to all the other production 1929 and beyond Deluxe Deliveries. Here is what I found. I also attached a picture of my deluxe delivery and also a 1929 Production Deluxe Delivery. The photo of the production engine is in line with all the other deluxe delivery engines I have see. There are quite a few differences between my Delivery and Production Deliveries. I welcome any feedback.

Vehicle Background
• My Deluxe Delivery was assembled in Chicago, frame stamped.
• This delivery was left in a “barn” in Indiana from 1955-2003
• Purchased by Lt. Col Tom Philpott in 2003
• Brought back to Georgetown, Tx for restoration. (This would be Tom Philpott’s 5th Model A restoration), he had owned, driven and restored Model A’s most of his life.
• Tom Philpott was a very experienced Model A restorer. At the time of this restoration, he owned 4 other Model A’s including a 1931 Delivery. In his expert opinion, these parts were part of the original build.
Key differences between this Delivery and what I have seen on production Deliveries:
o This Delivery has an early model A (AR) chassis, hand brake is on the left side. This was used through June of 1928.
o This Engine stamp shows May of 1928.
o Having a May 1928 engine, allotting time for shipping the engine and then putting it on an AR chassis. This time frame lines up with a Oct-Nov. 1928 Prototype.
o This Delivery has a solid front motor mount, they were used through Nov. 1928.
o It has a cad plated generator end cover; these were not used after 1928.
o This Delivery has a fan shroud, I have not seen one on any of the production Deliveries that I have found. Ford stopped using the fan shroud in Feb. 1929.
o This Delivery has a square starter switch, Ford stopped using these in Oct. 1928.
o This Delivery has the body mounted rear taillight bracket and drum taillight.
o This Delivery was unusual in the fact that the metal body panels were bolted together and then nailed to the wood frame. We have not found any production deliveries with them nailed, the ones we have seen used rivets, which would make sense on an assembly line. In Oct. and Nov. of 1928, production lines were not set up yet for the production Deliveries. So, it is believed the prototypes were put together basically by hand. Nailing the body to the wood frame would be in line with that. In addition to using other unusual parts. Which were found on this Delivery.
• During restoration he was visited by Ken Smith “Editor of the Lone Star Model A Ford Club”. Ken wrote an article in approx. 2005 about this Delivery. Here is quote from Ken after spending the day with Tom Philpott. “I visited Tom Philpott while he was restoring his 1928 Model A Delivery Truck. At that time the frame was off, and Tom showed me parts that didn’t belong on any Model A Ford that I had ever seen or read about. We spent some time examining the parts and believed the car was a prototype or very early test model”.
• Tom also shared notes with Les Andrews during restoration, Les was confident he had one of the other 2 remaining Preproduction Deliveries.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screenshot 2023-07-13 at 1.12.02 PM.jpg (20.3 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg Screenshot 2023-07-13 at 1.12.29 PM.jpg (20.0 KB, 26 views)
jamesivta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2023, 02:13 PM   #68
WTSHNN
Senior Member
 
WTSHNN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,413
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesivta View Post
I went through all the original notes on this delivery, other research materials and then compared it to all the other production 1929 and beyond Deluxe Deliveries. There are quite a few differences between my Delivery and Production Deliveries. I welcome any feedback.
What is the number on the body stamping?

While anything is possible it is very unlikely that a left hand brake chassis would have been used as late as October or November of '28. Ford was quick to obsolete that brake setup to conform to various laws requiring separate service and emergency brake systems. Additionally engines shipped from the Rouge to Chicago could be delivered in a day or two. Those factories far from Dearborn may see as long as a month delivery time.

-Tim
__________________
No one wants advice - only corroboration.
-John Steinbeck
WTSHNN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2023, 03:07 PM   #69
jb-ob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 631
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Jim,

From here you will need to get serious documentation.

You need a copy of the 2005 article about the car. The evidence you need might be in the back ground of any pictures taken.

Unfortunately there is nothing unique about your Deliveries' chassis. Even if you lifted the body to expose the frame number (matching the engine??) it is still a common chassis used under any Ford car May thru November.

You are loosing me when you say the body is nailed to a frame. FORD never produced a car body with a wooden sub-frame. His sub-contractors did, Briggs & Murray.
Most production Deliveries have a skeletal frame onto which the rear door skin is nailed. The metal quarter panels are also nailed to a wooden frame surrounding the rear door providing support. The remaining body wood is to support the roof bows & rain gutters.

One has to wonder where a May '28 chassis sat until being used, say in September for your Delivery body ??

A more likely event was Ford contacted with Budd (Philly) to build a small body Delivery from the dimensions of their Tudor sedan. To accomplish this a complete chassis (yours ??), fenders, cowl, & Tudor sedan shell (w/ steel sub frame)were shipped to Budd.
It is unusual to create only one prototype. Some can be trashed when they 'don't work out', moving on to 'plan b'. This might account for the time from May until maybe September.

One of the first Delivery prototypes with two different paint schemes was photographed in front of Ford Engineering, Dearborn. From there yours could have been displayed at a Chicago auto show before being sold.

This is my best guess.

jb
jb-ob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2023, 12:33 PM   #70
jamesivta
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 28
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Hi JB,

Below is a post my Father made on FordBarn, at this point my Father had been researching the vehicle for about 3 years. I also have a copy of the Article by Ken Smith, it was written earlier than this post. I'll get that scanned.

Re: 130A DeLuxe Delivery build date.


Posted by tom philpott from dial-b-128-83-254-157.telesys.its.utexas.edu (128.83.254.157) on Friday, June 22, 2007 at 11:27AM:

In Reply to: 130ADeLuxeDeliverybuilddate, posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C from
24-151-170-117.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com (24.151.170.117) on Thursday, June 21, 2007 at 10:19AM:

As the owner of the particular Deluxe Delivery I can shed a little light on it. The first Ford PreProduction delivery was pictured at theFord Factory in November of 1928. Unfortunately the actual production records were destroyed in a Fire back in th 70's so no one knows for sure how many preproduction Deliveries were actually made. It is known that Murray and Briggs the major coach builders for Ford were probably producing at their capacity during that period and Ford went to an independent coach builder, Budd Mfg company to build the Deluxe Delivery bodies. The bodies were then placed on a Tudoor Sedan chassie.
Due to the the problems with Budd getting into production and the Ford plants getting new assembly lines running probably few if any regular production Deluxe Deliveries were assembled in 1928. However, Budd did assemble a few body kits (some people think as many as a couplehundred, others say only a dozen or so)which were shipped to the various Ford Plants for assembly. On my Delivery the metal body panels were bolted together and and then nailed to the woodframe (I have seen later 29 bodies where the metal panels appeared to be
riveted together).
My Delivery was assembled in Chicago. It appears they received one of Budd's body kits and as there was no production line set up they just hand assembled it using anything they had available. The engine # (and chassie #) indicate ti was a May 1928 engine. Which means the rolling chassie was put together 4 to 6 weeks later (the time it took to get the engine out to a plant) and was one of the last AR's assembled. It is known that they used some of the left over AR rolling chassies for Commercial vehicles and thats what they did with my delivery. They also used all types of left over parts on my delivery, many Ihad never seen before and Ithink may have been Model Tparts. Iunderstand most of the preproduction Deliveries were either used as factory display models to take orders or some people think Ford wanted to get some of them out on the street as publicity and shipped them to big customers who bought fleets of 25 or 50 Deliveries such as Jewel Tea. As the plant records have been lost no one knows exactly how many preproduction Deliveries were actually made in 1928 and many people have different ideas. I'm certain however, that this was one of the few preproductions deliveries built in 1928. Hope this answers your question.
jamesivta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2023, 03:24 PM   #71
jb-ob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 631
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Jim, It's a nice story but as I said before, going forward it is about documentation .

I suggest starting with extensive photographs of your Delivery's wood sub-frame.

jb
jb-ob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2023, 10:58 AM   #72
jamesivta
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 28
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Hi JB, once again very good advice from you. I continue to find more differences in this Delivery. For this Delivery at the top of the hood louvres, they are not parralell with the hinge line (in 1929 and later models the louvres are parralell. This Delivery also has 1928 Headlights, they are nickel plated and the lenses have only vertical flutes (these were used on 1928 models, they were changed in 1929). This Delivery also appears to have a 1928 carburator, it is unmarked, Ford started marking the carburators in 1929. This along with the long list of other differences that I previously posted. Unfortunately as my Father mentioned all the Ford and also Budd documentation has been destroyed. So what we do know as fact was that there were Prototypes built in 1928. Its unknown as to how many preproduction models were made. What I do know is this Delivery is different from any other Delivery I have found so far. It has a may 1928 engine. I have found documentation showing that sometimes engines sat for several months before being installed. This Delivery is also built with an AR Chassis. I will continue to document all the differences in this Delivery, it is becoming a long list. What seems pretty clear is that almost every part of this vehicle is a 1928, the body is built by Budd Mfg, who did build and deliver some bodies in 1928. Regardless of whether or not it is preproduction or prototype. It is a rare Deluxe Delivery. I have attached the original article that Ken Smith published about this car, he spent the day with my Father while he had the frame off.

To quote Ken from his article "At that time the frame was off and Tom showed me parts that didn't belong on any Model A Ford that I had ever seen or read about."
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Ken Smith Article.pdf (4.79 MB, 12 views)
jamesivta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2023, 11:47 AM   #73
jb-ob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 631
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Jim,

Focus on the body construction as the other chassis pieces you mention are common to any May '28 production Ford, not unique. How that body got placed on that chassis will remain interesting speculation.

The owner & author's reference to the use of Model T parts in the chassis assembly was common thinking. A 'knowledgeable' Model A restorer might, not recognizing early '28 chassis parts, and assume they were Model T. A Model T 'guy' wouldn't recognize those pieces either and assume they must be Model A.
Early '27-28 parts thus regarded as 'orphans'.

One tenant in all the car hobby is, "Every car has a story.....and if your car doesn't, you make one up".

It's common Model A knowledge the unique features found in an early chassis. What isn't know, your job, is to discover and identify what makes your Delivery different in construction than the later '29 Deliveries.

Good luck, jb
jb-ob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2023, 12:14 PM   #74
jamesivta
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 28
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Thank you again JB. You are definitely helping me to refine the story on this vehicle. I'll keep you updated!!!
jamesivta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2023, 01:10 PM   #75
jb-ob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 631
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Lastly for those following this thread, long ago at the Dayton Ohio MARC National Meet, a Model A collector, Sheldon Lake displayed his '29 Delivery, which was a converted from '29 Tudor sedan. It still had it's side windows AND a rear door. Sure it had an interesting story as well.
jb-ob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2023, 02:59 PM   #76
WTSHNN
Senior Member
 
WTSHNN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,413
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesivta View Post
It has a may 1928 engine. I have found documentation showing that sometimes engines sat for several months before being installed.
James, wanting add some info to the above.

While it is true that an engine could sit around for a few months I do not believe that to be the case with your car. If everything on the chassis is original to that chassis then the whole chassis was most likely assembled in May or June. Had the engine sat around for a few months it would of been put into a chassis that was available at that point in time (ebrake handle to front of trans). As I said earlier the left hand brake set up was abandoned by Ford very quickly and they would not of had it sitting around much longer than needed. Especially at a larger assembly plant like Chicago.

Like JB said, focus more on the unique features of the body and less on the chassis.

-Tim
__________________
No one wants advice - only corroboration.
-John Steinbeck
WTSHNN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2023, 04:35 PM   #77
jamesivta
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 28
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Just for kicks, here is one of the other restorations my Father did in his spare time. It is a 1931 79B. It was converted to a Police Paddy Wagon in Michigan in the 30's. This was his last (6th) Model A restoration. Shocked he he had time to restore any of them. He was a Navigator in the AF for 25 years, served in Vietnam, raised 6 boys and then taught classes at the University of Texas till he retired. After the Model A's he restored Austin's (5 of them).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screenshot 2023-07-15 at 12.23.00 PM.jpg (22.5 KB, 45 views)
jamesivta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2023, 05:23 PM   #78
Hitman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 484
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

Looks like the car is for sale now.

http://https://www.fordbarn.com/foru...d.php?t=329870
Hitman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2023, 07:56 PM   #79
Dennis Haag
Member
 
Dennis Haag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 42
Default Re: 130-A Deluxe Delivery 1928 Prototype Info.

James, I had conversation with your father about the 28. I have what looks to be maybe a prototype. I posted pictures a few years ago on this post. City bought thru Ford Fleet services a delivery for the dept of public works Milwaukee Wi. I enjoyed discussing our projects with your father. Dennis Haag
__________________
DRHAAG
Dennis Haag is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 AM.