Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup

[GB SISSON]

Last week while heading down our steep gravel road in first gear, the floor shift knob started vibrating badly and there was a loud clicking or ratcheting coming from the transmission area. There were no previous indications of this condition. This truck is the one I converted to a woodie wagon a few years back. I got us turned around and the noise/vibration was not evident going back up the hill. Later that day I pulled the driveshaft and checked the splines and u joints. Splines were perfect and showed almost 3" of engagement. The u joints were also in good shape. I finally got a chance to drive the vehicle quite aggresively today and the sound is very pronounced in decelleration and non existant in acceleration. Another important factor is this problem only exists in first gear. Second, third and reverse operate as before. While I have completely overhauled six or seven flathead V8s and all manner of other repairs on the V8 trucks, I have no experience with transmissions. Is it time to pull this 3 speed and open it up? (I have all winter). Could this be something more external? And lastly I have been considering a T-5 swap as my tall tires, hilly island environment, stock 221 engine and heavy vehicle have me longing for a lower first gear. With open driveline, maybe the T-5 swap is pretty straighforward? Thanks in advance, GB

[alanwoodieman]

countershaft thrust washer is worn out--these trans are not very "backdownable" very weak thrust washers on counter shaft. does not do it in reverse because the thrust is in the other direction on the counter shaft

[sidevalve8ba]

If you do decide to rebuild what you have I highly recommend Mac Van Pelt's book on rebuilding these transmissions. It was a big help to me when doing my first. He is also an excellent source for spare parts.

[Kube]

I tend to agree with Alan in regard to the most probable cause.
I agree with Sidevalve in regard to obtaining that book.
These transmissions are NOT tough to rebuild at all. With what I'd witnessed of your exploits, you'll soon be wondering why you may have had some hesitancy to tackle this.
You CAN handle this.

[svm99]

When you had the driveshaft out did you happen to check for end play in the mainshaft?
Regards, Paul

[GB SISSON]

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Thanks for the votes of confidence! Prior to this transmission situation I spent 3 days cleaning and organizing my narrow 'side shop' 14'x 28' into a sort of engine work space and am now looking into insulating and heating this room off the main garage. In the past it was used for an overflow area for the woodworking business, where we had a duplicate table saw and planer and some needed lumber storage. That was in the era of 3 or 4 employees. Now it's just me and the original woodshop is plenty. My thought was to build that long anticipated 255 8ba for the woodie this winter. I have most of what I need with the exception of pistons and rod bearings. My crank cleaned up at .010/.020. Would the added torque of this 255 over my 221 be enough to help me ease off nicely in first gear? Today I back out of the garage, point the rear downhill and start out cold up a rather steep incline. It requires some clutch slip which involves some serious and annoying 'judder'. Yes, I'm guilty of not having the flywheel machined, combined with the use of recycled engine mounts gleaned from a 3lb coffee can. I won't make these errors again. Moving in this direction I could rebuild my 3 speed, surface flywheel, new mounts (from where?) and spend the 2 grand on the engine parts and machine work instead of the T-5, adaptor/clutch/driveshaft mods. OOOH, maybe dual exhausts.....

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by svm99

When you had the driveshaft out did you happen to check for end play in the mainshaft?
Regards, Paul

No, I didn't. Just wiggled up and down and very little play if any.

[GB SISSON]

My 'new' mechanic shop.

[tubman]

I agree that you will have no trouble rebuilding your transmission. About 30 years ago when I was building my '36 3 window, I wanted a good reliable transmission to go behind the 276 ci flathead I was putting in it. I bought a '39 transmission off of Hemmings, a good '46-'48 transmission locally and all the NOS small parts (bearings, synchronizers, etc.) I could find. I also had an early Ford transmission book I got somewhere. After reading the book about three times, I got to work. I was careful and ended up with a transmission that was virtually perfect.

Long story short, I had almost no experience going in and got very good results. For a guy with your skills, it should be a "piece of cake".

[38 coupe]

You should have no problems rebuilding an old Ford transmission. I have to ask, if you are contemplating a transmission swap to get a lower first gear why not go with a 4 speed crashbox? They made half ton rear mounts for them and are usually free when you find one.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

My 'new' mechanic shop.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

You should have no problems rebuilding an old Ford transmission. I have to ask, if you are contemplating a transmission swap to get a lower first gear why not go with a 4 speed crashbox? They made half ton rear mounts for them and are usually free when you find one.

When I got the pickup it had no engine or trans. I figured the 3 speed was what I would want in that vehicle. First time I drove it I knew it was geared too high in 1st. To remedy this I decided I'd one day swap in a T-9 crash box. Easiest route was to drive it 'as is' until I got around to swapping it. But every winter I just kept building something new instead. The diesel '47 tonner, the mongrel Foyota RPU, and last winter the almost stock '46 tonner with a T-9 and an H 226 six. I am very familiar with the T-9's operation and I like them but with the '46 I endeavored to build a smooth and quiet pickup, but the gear whine is very pronounced in the cab and not sure I want that in the woodie. Also my kids and grandkids enjoy the woodie so much I like to think they might make ice cream runs to town etc in the summer visits. All four of my kids drive a stick (2 boys, 2 girls) but not sure they are up to the crash box. Same for my wife. You couldn't pry the T-9 in the green tonner outa my hands, and if was just me, one would have been in the woodie in the first place. I Do have a good T-9 and a half ton mount, so I won;t say never, but for now it's most likely the 3 spd or the 5 speed. I tried ordering the book on Mac's site, but couldn't log in so I'll go old skool and call him in the morning. And Pete, good job once again with that picture!

[PeteVS]

Does your 3 speed have the 25 tooth cluster gear? If not, that might be a good option to get lower first and second gears.

My mistake!! Should have said 29 tooth cluster. (Thanks Tim!)

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by PeteVS

Does your 3 speed have the 25 tooth cluster gear? If not, that might be a good option to get lower first and second gears.

Sounds like something to look into for sure. Just the kind of thing I will be researching. Thanks much. Highest speed limit here is 40 on one of the few straightaways. We have taken the woodie to the mainland 3 times since building it, and only once on the interstate, so you can see my needs are different than most of today's drivers of early fords.

[RKS.PA]

Gary, I'm probably finished with my transmission rebuilding projects. If you can use a copy of Mac VP's book, send me a PM for your mailing address and I'll send it to you it off to you with my compliments....it was invaluable to me when I rebuilt my '47 side shifter!!

Regards....Dick

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by RKS.PA

Gary, I'm probably finished with my transmission rebuilding projects. If you can use a copy of Mac VP's book, send me a PM for your mailing address and I'll send it to you it off to you with my compliments....it was invaluable to me when I rebuilt my '47 side shifter!!

Regards....Dick

A generous offer I can't refuse. Hope I can make it up to Mac with parts purchases. Thank you ever so much!

[GB SISSON]

Does anyone have the specs on this 25 tooth cluster gear? I'm guessing I have the higher geared version. This could be a great solution. Edit: Looking at the VanPelt site, the chart seems to indicate the higher tooth (28) on first of the cluster results in a lower first and second. It also reminds me that there was a HD 3 speed for trucks with a low in the mid 3's, and a synchro 4 speed from '48-'64. These options could be very rare I'm thinking.

[Tim Ayers]

Maybe I missed something, but the 25 & 26 tooth clusters were found in Lincoln Zephyr transmissions. These were Ford's version of a wide ratio transmission and used to help move those heavy Lincolns down the road. Most of these LZ's had a 4.33 rears (I believe, not a LZ expert) with an O/D transmission and possibly a Columbia as well.

I'd doubt GB's transmission has a set of LZ gears in it, but you never know.

If this is going behind your 221 and your top speed is going to be 40 mph, I think you'd be much happier with a 28 tooth gear set with 3.78 rear end ratio.

Can't recommend Mac VP's book enough and agree you can handle this job without issue.

If you are going to give this trans a "refresh", I'd suggest going with the improved synchro set up found in mid to late '39-'48 Fords.

I've found 40-48 side shift transmissions to be excellent donors for good gears and other parts. You'll need a 81A double detent top with 91A forks to work with the larger synchro hub. This combo will provide endless miles of trouble free cog stirring.

[Zeke3]

There is a 29T cluster gear for the three speed transmissions that will give the lowest, most gear reduction, first gear ratio. I thought it was commonly used in truck transmissions.

[cadillac512]

The two ratios I'm familiar with for the three speed trans are 16/28 and 15/29 input gear/cluster.

A link to ratios courtesy MacVP-


http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...gearratios.htm

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by PeteVS

Does your 3 speed have the 25 tooth cluster gear? If not, that might be a good option to get lower first and second gears.

Pete ..... Are you SURE about that 25-tooth cluster giving you LOWER trans gear ratios?

That 25-tooth cluster is one of the two available "Zephyr Gearsets" that was available back then. The other was, of course, the 26-tooth cluster. Both of these gearsets allowed the car to be WOUND-OUT in both 1st & 2nd gears, but both were notorious for being 'dogs' off the line which to me, indicates 'BIG dog trying to take-off UP a hill.

Stock old Ford 3-speeds normally have either 28-tooth (most common) clusters or 29-tooth clusters. The 28-tooth yields a 2.82 1st gear and a 1.604 2nd gear.

29-tooth clusters have a 3.114 1st gear and a 1.773 2nd gear.

Check-out this gear ratio chart BELOW provided by Mac VanPelt.

Coop

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...gearratios.htm


.

[GB SISSON]

You guys are making my day with all this knowledge. Many thanks!

[alanwoodieman]

I took the 29 tooth truck trans out of my 41 3/4 ton, it has a 3:25 9'' truck rear axle and you could not get up to speed with the 29 tooth. I used a 28 tooth trans gear set out of a 40 car and it works good. but as I said before do NOT back off in first or second gear it will eat up the rear thrust bearing/case

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by alanwoodieman

I took the 29 tooth truck trans out of my 41 3/4 ton, it has a 3:25 9'' truck rear axle and you could not get up to speed with the 29 tooth. I used a 28 tooth trans gear set out of a 40 car and it works good. but as I said before do NOT back off in first or second gear it will eat up the rear thrust bearing/case

So Alan, did you re-use the 41's case and install a new gearset or is the '41's original transmission still intact? Also, does the '41 3/4 ton have an open or enclosed driveline? It is all somewhat confusing, but sounds Like I should have the 29 tooth cluster if I rebuild my current transmission. I hope to call Mac VanPelt soon and ask what I should be chasing down. And I guess I really should wait til I get this thing pulled and inspected before I go off ordering anything.

[Tim Ayers]

Calling Mac would certainly be a good idea. I have not messed with big trucks and, without a picture or a manual, I just assumed they used the car/light truck stuff for engine and trans. but I could be wrong.

Your question about the '41 trans is good to clarify. If from a car, it will a side shift with closed drive. Not sure when Ford went to open drive in trucks, but the open drive, top loader transmissions are still fairly plentiful.

That said, if you find a nice mid-to late '39 top loader trans that has the improved synchros, it's not that difficult to convert it to open drive. I have all the pieces you would need for the conversion if you need them. Just send me a DM.

That said, it's important to note that all Ford/LZ clusters are a 1:1 ratio in third. The tooth counts being bantered about is referring to 1st gear.

Generally speaking:
-25/26 tooth LZ gears let you wind it out longer in first. 2nd gear is also wider than 28 or 29 gear sets.

-29 tooth cluster, usually found in trucks, rev up quickly, but were designed for hauling or towing. Usually mated with 4:11's. This would be the slowest, highest reviving set up, but allow a truck to be a used like a truck

-28 tooth cluster, mated to a 3.78 rear, is a nice balance of all the sets/ratios. First revs quicker than LZ gears and second is a little wider than the 29 tooth cluster.

This combo can be good choice for around town driving for under 65 mph. Most times, you can drive around in 2nd gear and still have good acceleration until shifting into third.

In my roadster, I often will roll up to a traffic light in 2nd and take off without dropping down into first. I have a 28 tooth/3.78 rear in this car. Albeit it's light and has a big CI flathead, but I've done this in other cars as well.

Add tall tires that I'd assume a 3/4 truck has, then the rear ratio drops down a bit from the 3.78.

[V8COOPMAN]

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.

Guys ...... It ain't hard at all to figure out what you have when you use the Mac VanPelt chart that I posted above in post #21, as well as in the link just BELOW in this post.


http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...gearratios.htm


Take ANY numerical ratio number that is listed on the chart and multiply it by your rear end ratio for an overall number that you can work with.

For instance GB, let's say that you now have the most-common gearset available which has the 28-tooth cluster. That cluster yields a 2.82 1st gear ratio. Now, let's assume that you currently have something like a 4.11 rear end ratio. Multiply the two (2.82 X 4.11) and you end-up with an 11.59 OVERALL ratio. You're obviously familiar with how the car climbs your hill with that overall ratio. NOW, you have a baseline ratio to experiment with different 1st gear ratios, as well as combining those with different rear end ratios.

And remember, IF you consider going with a T5, don't forget that you have synchronizers on ALL forward gears, plus you have an additional intermediate gear to get your RPMs in a "happy range" when you're cruising the island, and not to mention the available O/D for one of your occasional trips across the pond to the mainland. And those T5s really shift nicely.

One more link BELOW for all of the common T5s along with their individual gear ratios. Stick with the "GM" or "Ford" transmissions for reasonable availability purposes.


http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Bo...T5-ID-Tags.htm


Coop

.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

.

Guys ...... It ain't hard at all to figure out what you have when you use the Mac VanPelt chart that I posted above in post #21, as well as in the link just BELOW in this post.


http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...gearratios.htm


Take ANY numerical ratio number that is listed on the chart and multiply it by your rear end ratio for an overall number that you can work with.

For instance GB, let's say that you now have the most-common gearset available which has the 28-tooth cluster. That cluster yields a 2.82 1st gear ratio. Now, let's assume that you currently have something like a 4.11 rear end ratio. Multiply the two (2.82 X 4.11) and you end-up with an 11.59 OVERALL ratio. You're obviously familiar with how the car climbs your hill with that overall ratio. NOW, you have a baseline ratio to experiment with different 1st gear ratios, as well as combining those with different rear end ratios.

And remember, IF you consider going with a T5, don't forget that you have synchronizers on ALL forward gears, plus you have an additional intermediate gear to get your RPMs in a "happy range" when you're cruising the island, and not to mention the available O/D for one of your occasional trips across the pond to the mainland. And those T5s really shift nicely.

One more link BELOW for all of the common T5s along with their individual gear ratios. Stick with the "GM" or "Ford" transmissions for reasonable availability purposes.


http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Bo...T5-ID-Tags.htm


Coop

.

Thanks Coop, that takes a lot of the guesswork out of the equation. Gotta juggle some cash I've been saving up for the 255 engine and most likely the least expensive way out is to re-gear/repair my lowly 3 speed. I'm sure I'd love the T-5 and who knows.... There may be an S-10 in the bushes here.....

[pistonbroke]

Hi Gary, Tim here, just a side note. I had the same symptoms in an old truck and found my pinion nut had come lose . Just another experience , Tim

[alanwoodieman]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

So Alan, did you re-use the 41's case and install a new gearset or is the '41's original transmission still intact? Also, does the '41 3/4 ton have an open or enclosed driveline? It is all somewhat confusing, but sounds Like I should have the 29 tooth cluster if I rebuild my current transmission. I hope to call Mac VanPelt soon and ask what I should be chasing down. And I guess I really should wait til I get this thing pulled and inspected before I go off ordering anything.

I used the 41 top loader case, actually any top load 78 case will work. I have the complete 41 29 tooth truck gear set as a spare. 41 3/4 ton is an open drive shaft. does your trans have the parking brake drum on the rear of trans? if so you will need to find the top load trans out of a step van because it has the brake drum on trans output

[cas3]

Personally, if its gonna be a swap, I like the 4spd from the 80's f150's. 3 direct, and 4th is overdrive. No need for 5 gears I think.

[GB SISSON]

Tim, while driveshaft was out I found no wobble, play or looseness at the rear yoke. I was hoping that's what the noise was. Alan, the chassis a conventional 1947 1/2 ton pickup. Open driveline and parking brakes are cable to rear wheels. Skip, is this f-150 4 speed a tremec or related to the S-10 and use that same cast aluminum adapter as the T-5?

[cas3]

GB, I forget the correct name of the 150 trans. Someone will chime in on that. The model A guys like them because they are shorter than the T5, and the shifter comes straight out the top like the old Ford.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by cas3

GB, I forget the correct name of the 150 trans. Someone will chime in on that.

The transmission you are looking for is an "RTS" out of an 84-87 Ford F150 2WD pickup with an inline 6 or small V8. Gear ratios and O/D ratios are limited compared with T5 selections.

[GB SISSON]

And really, an overdrive would be rarely used in the woodie. Our 'over town' car is my wife's 5 spd manual '96 subaru outback. Sometimes we forget there is a 5th gear as we use that OD so rarely if at all on the island. It's still a ways out before I can pull the trans and see what's going on in there so in the meantime I will continue my research.

[jimvette59]

GB I have one of the infamous 41 pichup trans. It is a 78 case for the v8 or the four cylinder. It is for sale. If you are interested you can get me at [email protected]. Jim T.

[38 coupe]

alanwoodieman, which 29 tooth gear set do you have? I suspect you have the 14 tooth main drive gear version that results in the even lower 3.52 first gear ratio. If so, that might be the perfect solution to GB's need for a low first gear.

Most 29 tooth gear sets are the 15 tooth main drive gear version with the 3.11 first gear, typically paired by Ford to a 3.54 rear axle ratio. However, the pre-war 3/4 ton trucks with the light duty three got the even lower ratio sets that are both not common and not (usually) desirable.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by jimvette59

GB I have one of the infamous 41 pichup trans. It is a 78 case for the v8 or the four cylinder. It is for sale. If you are interested you can get me at [email protected]. Jim T.

Thank you Jim. We are off island (over town) on a 4 day road trip visiting relatives. I emailed you. We wiil be home tonight and tomorrow I will get back to my laptop. I was finally able to reset my password by email on phone. I much prefer doing all this barn stuff on my laptop. Do they make a large print edition of fordbarn?

[flatford8]

Gary, if you turn your phone sideways that print should be bigger. You can also put your fingers together, touch the screen and spread your fingers while contacting the screen. I agree, the laptop is easier…….Mark

[38 coupe]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Do they make a large print edition of fordbarn?

Kinda. Hold down the control key on your keyboard and hit the plus key until you can read the words. That zooms the screen size of the web page which can help or cause problems.

[GB SISSON]

Thanks guys, need all the help I can get. Just texted a guy in a town we are driving through next that it doesn’t look like my wife and I will be stopping to look at the 40 ford pickup he has listed. I have a lot more vision about what stuff will look like ‘after’ than she does…. Heck, I was only gonna just take a quick look. Sheesh.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by jimvette59

GB I have one of the infamous 41 pichup trans. It is a 78 case for the v8 or the four cylinder. It is for sale. If you are interested you can get me at [email protected]. Jim T.

Thanks Jim, I tried emailing you from my phone, but don't think it worked. Now that I'm home with my laptop I think today's email went through. GB

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by RKS.PA

Gary, I'm probably finished with my transmission rebuilding projects. If you can use a copy of Mac VP's book, send me a PM for your mailing address and I'll send it to you it off to you with my compliments....it was invaluable to me when I rebuilt my '47 side shifter!!

Regards....Dick

Dick, The book arrived in today's mail! I had been to a jobsite in my avatar tonner and stopped at the mailbox on the county road about 20 minutes ago. This book was made for me! I love this stuff and Mac looks to be an awesome teacher. I'm gonna try to put it down and finish some cabinet work in my shop, but it will be tough. Thanks a million for your gift! GB

[GB SISSON]

Busy world around here lately, so I have not yet had a chance to investigate much. This looks more like a mid winter project for me. It will never be placed on the back burner though. I have received a lot of knowledge, help and gifts from friends here, yet I've still not formed a decision on going forward from here.
I have been spending a large amount of time working on my long, narrow 'machine shop' that runs down one side of my two bay garage. This had become full of stacked lumber and some surplus woodworking machinery and was unusable as a work place. I was recently informed of an 85 year old retired machinest who wanted to liquidate his home shop so I picked up some very nice equipment and am organizing this along with a collection of older equipment I have gleaned in the past 50 years in this hobby. I'm hoping this space will incorporate a 1950's-1970's look and remain somewhat tidy and organized. The next order of business is to insulate at least the ceiling, fix a few broken windows and install one of three woodstoves I have here. This new shop will be for mag and pressure testing my block collection, overhauling engines, rebuilding carbs and distributors and of course any transmission work I will be doing for my beloved wood wagon. I will be set up for grinding valves and seats with my Sioux and Van Dorn equipment and hope to soon be working in a well lit, warm and comfortable space.
Last week found me kneeling on the dirty concrete at 11 at night and 31 degrees degrees trying to get a broken roll pin from the now completely dissasembled gear box from a 50 year old Delta metal cutting bandsaw I had just brought home. That job took 7 hours. When I pull that 3 speed, I want to set in on my new polished steel topped 2x6 work table, throw a couple more logs on the fire, and find out just what is going on in there.
Two friends and I who were the recipients of a lot of his tooling, are hosting shop tours for our new 85 year old machinest friend today. The middle stop is here on Mt. Pickett with Ravin serving a hearty lunch and lots of hot coffee. (The other two shops are heated). Dang, only 3 hrs left to tidy up.....

[cas3]

All sounds good GB. I love playing with machines even though I am no machinist. What all will be in the new space for machinery ?

[Ray in La Mesa]

What an exciting addition! Stay warm.

[GB SISSON]

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Well Skip, he had just sold his metal lathe and bridgeport mill, so I still want a small metal lathe. I got a Heavy steel workbench with a beautiful 4" Wilton bullet vice, a couple of pedestal mounted Baldor grinders, a rolling table with fire brick inserted into the top, a bunch of assorted vise-grip welding clamps, a Starrett dial type cylinder bore gauge, a Starrett 12" digital caliper. More hand tools like smaller stuff. The metal cutting bandsaw I got two days later at another place on Orcas. I also have a nice area now for getting familiar with my valve grinder which as been stored away since I got it six years ago.

And Ray, I can't get that wood stove hooked up fast enough. It's been chilly but extremely sunny.

[38 coupe]

GB, have you had a chance to think about getting your hands on a set of gears with the uncommon low 3.52 to 1 first ratio? I suspect one of the earlier posts referenced a possible set.

[GB SISSON]

His price was very reasonable. Less than the price for all the parts to convert mine, but the shipping? I don't feel I'm in a position to properly decide my course of action at this time. I have had a lot on my plate this month. To pull the transmission out of the woodie right now I would be working in 30 degree temps at night. In a month or two I could work on it in my completed, warm and well lit workshop.
There's another thing I would like to investigate. If over the winter I were to build and install a 255 cu in 8BA, and this time have the flywheel surfaced and use new 'store-bought' engine mounts, would I be able to then back out of my shed, point up the hill and smoothly drive away with my current but repaired transmission? I plan on starting a thread where I mag and pressure test some blocks, measure some bores and see if I need 'off island' machine work. Crank is ground, and I have new bearings, valve assemblies and gaskets. Long stroke=torque+ smooth clutch+new engine mounts= no more judder, add a little clutch slip=clean getaway.... Right?

[flatford8]

Your a man with a plan!!.......I’m gonna be hooking up a trailer furnace in my shop soon....I’ve had enough of that smelly kerosene salamander.....Mark

[GB SISSON]

Today I bought one piece of 6" black stovepipe and an elbow. I have the stove and everything else I need including the metalbestos pipe and all fittings from a remodel I did. Gotta love those new yuppies getting rid of 'all that old junk'. Oh I also bought 750.00 worth of R-30 for the ceiling of a 14'x 28' room. Yikes. I'm not insulating the walls, too much stuff to move.....

[51504bat]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Today I bought one piece of 6" black stovepipe and an elbow. I have the stove and everything else I need including the metalbestos pipe and all fittings from a remodel I did. Gotta love those new yuppies getting rid of 'all that old junk'. Oh I also bought 750.00 worth of R-30 for the ceiling of a 14'x 28' room. Yikes. I'm not insulating the walls, too much stuff to move.....

When I did my house remodel I was told that the majority of heat loss was from from the ceiling. After I rolled insulation between the rafters I rolled more cross wise over the exposed rafters since the R value of the
un-insulated wood rafters is much less than the fiberglass that I covered them with.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

When I did my house remodel I was told that the majority of heat loss was from from the ceiling. After I rolled insulation between the rafters I rolled more cross wise over the exposed rafters since the R value of the
un-insulated wood rafters is much less than the fiberglass that I covered them with.

I'm working upside down. There's already a plywood floor laid down upstairs, as I store stickered lumber up there. It's like my kiln all summer under that tin roof. Ceiling is 10'. I bought the encapsulatred bats. Apparently they are 4' long and a you push them up and secure them with a piece of stiff wire. These wires are about 2' long so they don't quite fit between the joists, therefore they deflect and poke into the wood joists. Sounded sooo much better than holding up a roll of pink stuff and trying to get some staples into that paper flange. I will report back how it went.
And Mark what is a trailer furnace? I can kinda imagine it. You simply tow it over to a friend's house before the insurance adjuster shows up? Edit: Ok, my wife just told me it's the kind of small furnace you'd have if you were living in a trailer....

[flatford8]

“ Edit: Ok, my wife just told me it's the kind of small furnace you'd have if you were living in a trailer...“
That’s it .....they’re usually made by Miller....sits on a stand about 16” high with vents on three sides...the heat comes out the bottom because in a trailer the duct work is underneath... 20”x 28” by about 4’ high....great for a small shop.....Mark

[flatford8]

Sorry for the mess.....the maid is on vacation!.....my shop is 30’x30’ so if I ever finish hooking it up, it should heat well....Mark

[cas3]

Anyone who saves broken off shovels (like me!) can't be all bad, the heck with the maid.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by flatford8

Sorry for the mess.....the maid is on vacation!.....my shop is 30’x30’ so if I ever finish hooking it up, it should heat well....Mark

[GB SISSON]

Well, it's pretty obvious I have succeded in hijacking my own transmission thread into a shop renovation and shop heating thread. Not that I care, but I think I will break this up into two seperate threads as both situations are interesting to me, and I hope to others.
I have learned a lot about transmissions thanks to the generous gift of Mac's book and feedback on great this thread. I will reopen the subject after the holidays and then I will pull the tranny and inspect in the new heated shop. There's no telling which way I will go, but all the choices have merit. A lot will depend on if I can pull off that 255 engine this winter. If so, I may not need such a low first gear. Lots of choices to make and I'm deep into the shop build right now. My son came by yesterday and insulated the 10' ceiling. I got the stove set up and the pipe through the roof over the weekend. Since the photos I have fixed all broken windows and moved a bunch of stuff around for insulating. Here are some quick photos, excuse the mess as usual. My plan is to start a 'shop thread' in the near future as I get things set up in the heated 'mechanic shop'.

[cas3]

gigantic Baldor grinder, and a gigantic Wilton bullet vice...you are somebody GB!
Shop space looks great to me, I only have one comment, no such thing as too much insulation. In case you misread, no such thing as too much insulation. perhaps you misunderstood, no such thing as too much insulation.

When I rebuilt after the fire, I bought used freezer panels. Cheap, 9x4, sliced them up to fit between the studs, sealed all edges with spray foam in the can. 5 1/2" thick, shop has never been below about 49-50 even with no heat while I am out of town here at the north pole!

Carry on.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by cas3

gigantic Baldor grinder, and a gigantic Wilton bullet vice...you are somebody GB!
Shop space looks great to me.

[cas3]

Also, I have the same delta band saw. Love that old equipment.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by cas3

gigantic Baldor grinder, and a gigantic Wilton bullet vice...you are somebody GB!
Shop space looks great to me, I only have one comment, no such thing as too much insulation. In case you misread, no such thing as too much insulation. perhaps you misunderstood, no such thing as too much insulation.

When I rebuilt after the fire, I bought used freezer panels. Cheap, 9x4, sliced them up to fit between the studs, sealed all edges with spray foam in the can. 5 1/2" thick, shop has never been below about 49-50 even with no heat while I am out of town here at the north pole!

Carry on.

Skip, when you get through your first 'unfrozen ground' winter in Kansas you will see that you really did leave the north pole in your rearview mirror. I have worked 40-50 hours a week for 39 years in my cabinet shop with R-19 in the ceiling and R-zilch in the walls and single pane barn sash for windows. I'm way too lazy to remove all that junk from the walls , insulate them, panel the walls, build shelves etc and put all the junk back. I just now went on the porch and noted the temperature at 10 pm as being 49 degrees F. Yes it's a mild, rainy night and we do get maybe five or ten nights a year in the teens. If I were starting fresh with a new building I'm pretty sure I'd insulate the walls to save on firewood, but dang I got a lotta junk nailed up and in between those studs. And yes, I came across the old machinest selling out his shop just in time! The wilton was attached to this steel table the guy had built so I had to take it too. Edit: Sheesh, I'm using up all my shop thread pictures on this so called transmission thread......

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Skip, when you get through your first 'unfrozen ground' winter in Kansas you will see that you really did leave the north pole in your rearview mirror. I have worked 40-50 hours a week for 39 years in my cabinet shop with R-19 in the ceiling and R-zilch in the walls and single pane barn sash for windows. I'm way too lazy to remove all that junk from the walls , insulate them, panel the walls, build shelves etc and put all the junk back. I just now went on the porch and noted the temperature at 10 pm as being 49 degrees F. Yes it's a mild, rainy night and we do get maybe five or ten nights a year in the teens. If I were starting fresh with a new building I'm pretty sure I'd insulate the walls to save on firewood, but dang I got a lotta junk nailed up and in between those studs. And yes, I came across the old machinest selling out his shop just in time! The wilton was attached to this steel table the guy had built so I had to take it too. Edit: Sheesh, I'm using up all my shop thread pictures on this so called transmission thread......

[flatford8]

Milk can is just the right height for a stool ain’t it?........HEY!......how about some hot coals out if the wood stove......in the milk can.....for a nice warm seat!.......that idea is all for you Bud!.......Mark

[51504bat]

Love the C clamp to hold the chain hoist chain out of the way. As well as everything else.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by flatford8

Milk can is just the right height for a stool ain’t it?........HEY!......how about some hot coals out if the wood stove......in the milk can.....for a nice warm seat!.......that idea is all for you Bud!.......Mark

Sorry Mark, That milk can has already been pressed into service. It is now a combination heat shield/ceiling support for the 10' of metalbestos pipe through the attic and roof. I flipped the can on it's head, torched out an 8" hole through the bottom (O.D. of the stainless metalbestos). I then welded two pieces of angle about midway up that now sit on the plywood attic floor. The weight of the 8" stainless chimney pipe is now supported (and centered) in the neck of the milk can which is about 6 1/2" ID. This allows the crimped end of the single wall 6" black pipe to be inserted into the bottom of the insulated pipe. It's like it was made for the purpose. I have a dandy office chair I got at the dump that will be the new workbench stool after I weld in a pipe extension. The upholstery is a lovely gray which pairs quite fashionably with the surrounding machinery.

[petehoovie]

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Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Sorry Mark, That milk can has already been pressed into service. It is now a combination heat shield/ceiling support for the 10' of metalbestos pipe through the attic and roof. I flipped the can on it's head, torched out an 8" hole through the bottom (O.D. of the stainless metalbestos). I then welded two pieces of angle about midway up that now sit on the plywood attic floor. The weight of the 8" stainless chimney pipe is now supported (and centered) in the neck of the milk can which is about 6 1/2" ID. This allows the crimped end of the single wall 6" black pipe to be inserted into the bottom of the insulated pipe. It's like it was made for the purpose. I have a dandy office chair I got at the dump that will be the new workbench stool after I weld in a pipe extension. The upholstery is a lovely gray which pairs quite fashionably with the surrounding machinery.

[GB SISSON]

Thanks Pete! Upon closer inspection I see my kid left a sizeable gap behind the pipe... Never mind the fact that he got here to insulate before I had a chance to sister that joist I hacked out. I'll get right on that after lunch.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

When I got the pickup it had no engine or trans. I figured the 3 speed was what I would want in that vehicle. First time I drove it I knew it was geared too high in 1st. To remedy this I decided I'd one day swap in a T-9 crash box. Easiest route was to drive it 'as is' until I got around to swapping it. But every winter I just kept building something new instead. The diesel '47 tonner, the mongrel Foyota RPU, and last winter the almost stock '46 tonner with a T-9 and an H 226 six. I am very familiar with the T-9's operation and I like them but with the '46 I endeavored to build a smooth and quiet pickup, but the gear whine is very pronounced in the cab and not sure I want that in the woodie. Also my kids and grandkids enjoy the woodie so much I like to think they might make ice cream runs to town etc in the summer visits. All four of my kids drive a stick (2 boys, 2 girls) but not sure they are up to the crash box. Same for my wife. You couldn't pry the T-9 in the green tonner outa my hands, and if was just me, one would have been in the woodie in the first place. I Do have a good T-9 and a half ton mount, so I won;t say never, but for now it's most likely the 3 spd or the 5 speed. I tried ordering the book on Mac's site, but couldn't log in so I'll go old skool and call him in the morning. And Pete, good job once again with that picture!

This is what got me interested in the recent post about an NP 435 behind a flathead. Unlike 99% of most V8 enthusiasts, I like a nice granny gear, and almost never have any use for an overdrive with our 40 mph top speed on this rock. It sure looks like a good fit. With the ford style transmission I would need to reduce the input flange O.D. from 4.085 to 4.075 for a nice centered fit into the hogshead (I'm learning new words), then make a sleeve for the TOB snout. Depending on a spacer/plate or not, the 6.5" shaft might be fine and the pilot diameters are the same. The clutch fork and shaft situation seems ok from my limited knowledge of such things. The cross member would need to be addressed, and the driveshaft shortened, wich I have done sucessfully 4 or 5 times. Undoubtedly there would be more that I can't see from here. Just thought this was interesting as I'd have a sturdy truck transmission, granny low, synchromesh, quiet helical gears, ready availability and the kind of engineering problem I like to solve.

Upon re-reading this lengthy treatise, I have to ask.... I need opinions here. With my new engine at 276 cu in replacing the 221, a surfaced flywheel, new clutch, new motor mounts etc, will this new combination alleviate the need for the low first and all the clutch slipping/clutch shudder to get rolling uphill? If so, I'd just rebuild my current tranny, bolt it to the new 8ba and drive on.

[cas3]

Remind us again what gear ratio you have in the back?

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by cas3

Remind us again what gear ratio you have in the back?

I have no reason to doubt that it is whatever came from the factory in a '47 1/2 ton. In other words, I dunno. I run 215 85 16s all around which are about 30" tall, maybe 31". If there were multiple ratios available I would assume the high gear set.

[pistonbroke]

Hi Gary, A little off topic but I just have to copy your milk can heat shield in my new shop back here in MO. I'm just insulating and getting ready for the drywall. I was just looking at the price of metalbestos and all of its components. Thanks for saving me some change, Tim

[GB SISSON]

Tim, It's just one of those things that worked out so perfectly, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I have had a few days with 'blast furnace' stove temps and glad for the additional 1" of air space the milk can affords.

Some thoughts on hp and torque as relates to Henry's drivetrain engineers in the late '30s. Consider the introduction of the 60 hp flathead. A special low first gear replaced the first gear that had been standard with the 85 hp. This likely mattered most to 'Hillfolk'. Skip forward to the introduction of the 3 3/16" 95/100 hp V8, did the first gear get a bit taller yet? Certainly there is a ratio or relationship between a vehicle's first gear and it's powerplant's HP./torque. Not sure what the ratio of that increase from 60 hp to 85 was, but 25% or so for the sake of argument. Now for this Sunday puzzler, think of what I am doing with this fairly heavy truck based woodie. I will be moving from a 221 cu in flattie to a 276 cu in. A good portion of the displacement increase is a direct result of longer leverage arm of that 4" stroke. Increased torque makes us hillfolk happy. While I do not know what HP my otherwise stock 276 will be making, I think it will be a substantial gain and in excess of 25% over the 221. Perhaps the stock first gear will be just right when spun by a flattie on steroids working through a smooth acting proper clutch. In closing.... Did a manual trans falcon wagon with a 170 cu in six have the same first gear ratio as one with a 289? Thanks in advance from the slopes of Mt Pickett

[cas3]

No expert here, but I think with the new motor you will have plenty of power even with the heavy body/chassis for it to make a nice driving "car". However, if you like to do any truckish activity, or even considering the hill you live on, the 4 speed may be worth your efforts. I believe you get a lower reverse with that option too.

[38 coupe]

In the 1930s and 1940s Ford did not change the transmission ratio for different engine horsepower. Transmission ratios were changed with rear axle ratios. Typical Ford axle ratios 4.11 and 3.78 got paired with the transmission 2.82 in first gear set, the common "28 tooth". The 3.54 axle ratio got paired with the transmission 3.11 in first gear set, the "29 tooth". Your half ton probably has the 3.78 and 28 tooth combination. If you have a 29 tooth transmission set available I would swap that in. Either should be fine with the big flathead you are building along with a smooth clutch.

[GB SISSON]

How can I tell what axle ratio I have? Seems years ago I jacked up one side, turned the driveshaft one revolution and watched the upside wheel? That it?

[flatford8]

Gary.....turn the wheel one revolution and count the turns of the driveshaft......about 3 3/4 turns is 3.78.....a little more than 4 is 4.11.......3 1/2 is 3.54.......Mark

[GB SISSON]

Thank you Mark. I will check it tomorrow and report back. The more info the better, as pretty soon I will have to make some decisions and the end result won't be known until I get in it and go for a drive.

[38 coupe]

I'll offer a small correction: when you jack up only one rear wheel you need to turn the wheel two times and count the driveshaft. The spider gears double wheel speed when only one wheel is turning.


I'm curious what you find. Around here I would expect 3.78:1, but typical equipment may be different in the northwest.

[GB SISSON]

Dang I didn't get to it today. My day job (hanging an 8' x 20' oil painting 8" off a living room wall) got in the way and now tomorrow morning we catch the 7am ferry over to 'America'. First order of business, an egg mcmuffin. Wednesday I work back in the shop so I will sneak down and jack up the ol' woodie and check that ratio.

[Mart]

GB. Jack up one wheel only, leave the other on the ground. Turn the raised wheel TWICE. Count the driveshaft revolutions. The number of turns equals the axle ratio.
I made a video years ago:

https://youtu.be/bkvp3Fq21ZM

[GB SISSON]

First thing I'll do this morning is check is check my rear axle ratio. I happened to pick up a NP 435 ford version yesterday on the mainland. I know it was supposed to be a valentines day outing, but I couldn't resist the price and location. He threw in the clutch disc, pp and bell housing. A 3/4" plate between it's symetrical butterfly pattern and the hogs head will produce identical input lengths, and yes, pilots are identical. I would build a bolt in rear crossmember on the bench to limit the time spent underneath on that hard concrete floor. I am not certain I will go this route, but engineering the system is good brain exercise and it would work well in a future tonner project JIC. There was one more side trip tp pick up another WW2 US Navy bomb hoist. The seller wanted 60 bucks, but said he'd rather trade for some old stuff to hang on his garage walls. That was too easy. Oh boy, more stuff.

[cas3]

Nice score. Those bomb hoists must be more common near the coast, we don't have much use for a navy in my part of the world so I've never seen one available.

[GB SISSON]

Driveshaft went around a bit more than 4 turns, so I'm gonna say 4.11 . The NP has some deep lows so the jury is still out. I recently sold the red diesel tonner as a guy kept bugging me to sell it to him. Ever since I ruined my hearing exploding an old rag 12 ply next to my ear I have barely driven it as it is very loud in the cab. His offer was very generous so I'm happy. That's how I'm paying for the new 8ba and metal lathe, shop insulation etc. The bulk has to go to a new roof on the house next summer. It's long over due.

[sidevalve8ba]

GB,
It's funny you shouild bring up 435's. I was just reading an article about rebuilding them in an old issue of "FOUR WHEELER" the other day. It seems the ratios in a Ford 435 are 6.68:1 in first, 3.34:1 in second, 1.74:1 in third and direct in fourth. If you took off in second most all the time that would seem okay but that low gear is truly a grandma gear especially with your 4.11 rear end!

If you are interested that article is in the November, 2020 issue. You may be able to look it up on the Internet. Pretty good article.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Driveshaft went around a bit more than 4 turns, so I'm gonna say 4.11 . The NP has some deep lows so the jury is still out. I recently sold the red diesel tonner as a guy kept bugging me to sell it to him. Ever since I ruined my hearing exploding an old rag 12 ply next to my ear I have barely driven it as it is very loud in the cab. His offer was very generous so I'm happy. That's how I'm paying for the new 8ba and metal lathe, shop insulation etc. The bulk has to go to a new roof on the house next summer. It's long over due.

[GB SISSON]

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I have fine tuned the NP 435 conversion a bit more, but really it is not gonna work in the woodie. It requires cutting the center out of the crossmember and fabbing a new one set back a couple inches. Then there's the lack of a slip joint on rear yoke....It is still viable for a tonner or bigger and has been fun figuring it out. Today I started cleaning out the bay that has the 5 ton hand crank winch for pulling the engine/tranny. I will move the woodie in and start the dismantling process probably next weekend. I suppose I will pull the engine and trans as a unit, then get inside the 3 speed and see what I have and what it would need. Then it will be decision time.... T-5?, rebuild existing 3 speed as is or lower gear set? I have not seen how the rear mount is addressed with the T-5 conversion. How does a T-5 attach to my pickup's crossmember, and will I need to shorten the driveshaft?

[flatford8]

Gary.... here’s a pic of how I did my T-5 in a ‘51 Tudor. If you want a better one, I’ll get it today. I don’t know what your cross member looks like, but this might give you an idea of what you’re up against. I don’t remember if you said you’re having trouble with your transmission now other than first is too high. Regearing your current transmission to make you happy with first gear is probably the best option. T-5’s are getting expensive and there would be a lot of fab work to install it including a shorter driveshaft I think.I haven’t got to making the driveshaft on mine yet. And as you said it may never see overdrive on the island. It seems like you’re hitting a weekly jackpot on cool stuff to own! ....Mark

[flatford8]

Sorry forgot the picture

[GB SISSON]

Thank you Mark. The crossmembers look very similar, dipping down into a sort of V in the center. This whole situation started innocently enough when my wife and I decided to take the woodie into town because it was such a nice late fall day. Heading down the hill towards the county road we both heard strange sounds coming up from the transmission. We knew we had to turn around an grab a different vehicle. Heading back up the hill we heard nothing unusual. I later isolated the noise to the transmission and made a few short test runs, once again hearing the sound primarily on decelleration.. Folks here pointed to the thrust washers needing to be replaced. Now that may be all it needs, but when it's right there on the work bench it oughta be 'gone through' and thoroughly inspected.
The clutch, PP, TOB are all new, but the woodie has never liked any clutch slipping. The engagement is horrible with a bad shudder on any incline. As stated, I did not have the flywheel surfaced. Obviously while the tranny is out I will address all that. Leaning towards centerforce clutch. Third situation is a room full of good blocks, a newly ground 4" crank, lots of 8ba parts and a lifetime love of working on engines. Knowledgeable folks here suggested the 276 version while the block was at the machine shop. I am of the mind that with the greatly increased torque, machined flywheel, new clutch assembly and motor mounts, I will now be able to back outa the garage, point the nose uphill and with some normal clutch slippage, ease my way over the incline and head into town. That's all I really want after all the work is completed.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by flatford8

Sorry forgot the picture

[GB SISSON]

Thanks Pete and Mark. Now that the photo is bigger it looks even harder to swap to a non stock transmission with that big old wooden body sitting atop the frame. Makes a guy wanna buy a 2 post lift, but with 10' ceilings it's a major shop remodel. In the meantime I fired up the woodie and drove down to the county road and back just to listen to the noise. As before,it is a pretty loud clickity-clack along with a rumble/vibration going down the steep grades in first. Does not seem to do this in second, but that's a bit too fast to make the switchbacks and corners, so had to go back to first. No noise or vibration climbing back up in first, some second. Stopped at my other property on the way up for some firewood for shop stove. I had a helper. How much wood can Woody chuck into a woodie?

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Thanks Pete and Mark. Now that the photo is bigger it looks even harder to swap to a non stock transmission with that big old wooden body sitting atop the frame. Makes a guy wanna buy a 2 post lift, but with 10' ceilings it's a major shop remodel. In the meantime I fired up the woodie and drove down to the county road and back just to listen to the noise. As before,it is a pretty loud clickity-clack along with a rumble/vibration going down the steep grades in first. Does not seem to do this in second, but that's a bit too fast to make the switchbacks and corners, so had to go back to first. No noise or vibration climbing back up in first, some second. Stopped at my other property on the way up for some firewood for shop stove. I had a helper. How much wood can Woody chuck into a woodie?

[GB SISSON]

Well here we are weeks later and no closer to a transmission swap or repair. I want to pull the engine and trans together and need the new engine for that. In the meantime the woodie is still a moveable object and I am deep into two other projects along with the typical woodwork my customers are nagging me about. First project is the ongoing so-called 'machine shop/engine work/mancave'. Second is I am rebuilding a transfer case for the foyota. I think I mentioned the brilliant 'glitter' in the 90w. Ick. Anyway it's going well and going back together. The most fun has been building this shop though. Wouldn't I love that old ford spark plug sandblaster that showed up here on a thread yesterday for a prop. Waiting on a clutch sleeve for the in and out of the transfer case and hope to install into truck in a week or two. Gotta get a call into Les at the machine shop and see about progress on the 276....

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Well here we are weeks later and no closer to a transmission swap or repair. I want to pull the engine and trans together and need the new engine for that. In the meantime the woodie is still a moveable object and I am deep into two other projects along with the typical woodwork my customers are nagging me about. First project is the ongoing so-called 'machine shop/engine work/mancave'. Second is I am rebuilding a transfer case for the foyota. I think I mentioned the brilliant 'glitter' in the 90w. Ick. Anyway it's going well and going back together. The most fun has been building this shop though. Wouldn't I love that old ford spark plug sandblaster that showed up here on a thread yesterday for a prop. Waiting on a clutch sleeve for the in and out of the transfer case and hope to install into truck in a week or two. Gotta get a call into Les at the machine shop and see about progress on the 276....

[40coe]

Yes, Van Pelt is a great source for bearings and other parts. I have rebuilt about seven in recent years past. A couple for me and the rest for friends. Pay attention to the end play tolerance on the thrust washer and between second gear. I used max roller bearings on the main shaft, they have an extra ball bearing and are quieter. I cut O ring groves in the case for counter shaft and reverse idler shaft to seal it from leaking. With the O rings I used Red line MT 90 trans oil. Runs smooth quite and dose not leak.
You mentioned your new engine you might rebuild. I believe with the bigger cubes and the stroker crankshaft your low gear would be fine.

[cas3]

The shop is so neat an tidy GB! Carry on....

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by cas3

The shop is so neat an tidy GB! Carry on....

Thanks Skip. I tray to carry on as before, but I kinda hate to mess things up. The two bays where I work on the trucks still has the old 'patina', but I have been inspired to pick things up just a bit. I am not looking forward to rolling around on the cold concrete installing this very heavy transmission/transfer case. On a good note, the vehicle's floorboards are plywood and easily removed after pulling the seat and seat frame, so on the foyota, a lot can be done from above. When I get to the woodie I may saw an access hatch, The floor under the seat is still ford pickup steel, but wood floor behind that. It is indeed freeing working on vehicles that are so far from 'correct' that a hole in the floor with an old road sign screwed over it is just another conversation piece. My next truck project? How about a tonner dump truck with a tilt cab?

[GB SISSON]

I can't really let go of the T-5 swap. In case I swing that way, is this T5 from a 1995 S10 the correct one? It was rebuilt 50,000 miles ago and the seller ran redline synthetic in it. Says it's in great shape and shifts smoothly. Asking 450.00 ???

[sidevalve8ba]

GB,
There is, or should be, a tag on the transmission with a series of numbers. These numbers will give you the gear ratios of that gearbox. The numbers should be 1352-XXXX. It will make difference as to first gear ratio and overdrive ratio.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by sidevalve8ba

GB,
There is, or should be, a tag on the transmission with a series of numbers. These numbers will give you the gear ratios of that gearbox. The numbers should be 1352-XXXX. It will make difference as to first gear ratio and overdrive ratio.

Thank you. I'll see if I can get the lowdown on it.

[sidevalve8ba]

If you can get those numbers I have a chart that will tell us what those ratios are.

[GB SISSON]

Hopefully he gets back to me. The T5 became more intriguing once I decided I could make an access hatch in the floor. Also, the old VW bug bucket seats should allow shifting access and they unbolt easy for the swap. Does my original '47 pickup crossmember remain intact and just where the transmission mounts get altered? If the driveshaft needs to be shortened, I'm pretty familiar with doing that here.

[GB SISSON]

I called Les at the machine shop and he said the office called me ten days ago to say it was ready. (My kids say "Dad you have like 322 unread messages on your phone". I'm not very good with that aspect. Just made ferry reservations to go off island on Tuesday for the pick-up. .125 over, deck block,merc pistons,pins and rings, 16 hard seats, new pin bushings in the rods, flywheel surfaced. I have bearings and gaskets here. Oh, and the guy with the T5 is gonna check tonight when he gets home. I could get that while I'm on the mainland. Too bad my wife is coming with me Just kidding. Sort of.

[GB SISSON]

T5 guy says the plate is not there, but he sent pics of the casting numbers here and there. Doubt they'd help. For my purposes, does it really matter? I'm not doing this for the OD, and the low is bound to be lower than my 3 speed. Correct?

[sidevalve8ba]

Too bad the tag is missing but low gear is either 4.03 to 1 or 3.76. On the other end overdrive is either .86 or .72.

[GB SISSON]

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Thanks, I actually think any of those will work. At least it's from a mid 90's S10 and has the fwd shifter. Gonna watch part one of 'installing a T5 into a 1946 1/2 ton ford pickup ' on youtube. Should be an education.

[Als48]

GB, I installed an S-10 T5 in my '48 sedan behind a non-flathead engine several years ago. I bought a transmission mount for mine, but it needed modification. I think it was made for a '40 frame. Yours is likely different, but I'm sure you can figure it out. The '48 car frame is quite different, I believe, having the X-frame that mounted the front and rear wishbones as well as the trans/driveshaft torque tube. Your truck has an open rear end, right? Not sure you'll have a rear transmission mount, but it must have something.

Al H

[GB SISSON]

Yes, the jailbar years got totally modern with open driveline, and four leaf springs running fore and aft. There is a rear crossmember for the transmission, but in the 2 part video I just watched, they cut the center (12"? or so) totally out with a sawzall and installed a bolt in tubular crossmember for the rear of the T5. With the pedals mounted to the partial crossmember, I would at least triangulate that section with steel, welded up real sturdy-like. I think the new crossmember needs to bolt in and out for service. I have lots of steel scrap here for stuff like that. The swap with that nice cast aluminum adapter looks pretty straightforward.

[GB SISSON]

The ad for the T5 said it was rebuilt 50,00 miles ago, but talking to the guy he said it was 150,000 miles ago and the ad was a typo. So I passed. That's ok for now. I talked to Les again today because we didn't talk cam bearings on Friday and I wanted to make sure he did them. Same thing with surfacing the flywheel. And yes, he did both. I plan to start a new thread when I begin assembly on this engine and as previously stated, I have never put an engine together with so many parts all from different engines, and then install into a different series/year of truck than the engine was built for. I still need one truck water pump, or should maybe get a new pair. I also have some questions about the oil pan and the aluminum section that holds the seal. I might have 2 different versions of this. Anyhow, we will be back on the island late tomorrow night, so will likely start this new thread on Wednesday.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

T5 guy says the plate is not there, but he sent pics of the casting numbers here and there. Doubt they'd help. For my purposes, does it really matter? I'm not doing this for the OD, and the low is bound to be lower than my 3 speed. Correct?

GB SISSON ..... Your low (1st gear) is going to be either a 2.82, -OR- 3.114. And you're correct - those cast-in numbers have nothing to do with the application on a T5.

Coop


.

[38 coupe]

As mentioned once before in this thread, Ford made a set of gears for the three speed with a 3.52 first for use in pre-war 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. I thought someone early in this thread had one they would part with. Gears should be affordable since you are the only one who wants that ratio.