The Ford Barn

mbaughman · 09-05-2022, 08:41 AM

I spun the clutch in my 28 Model A RPU and need a source for having the clutch discs reworked, any thoughts? Or, maybe a source for some replacement discs? Also will most likely need a flywheel based on the ridges cut in the drive teeth, any source for a flywheel?

mcgarrett · 09-05-2022, 01:33 PM

I've never had any personal experience with multi-plate clutches and flywheels, but have read about them and spoken to some of the old-timers who said that there was a reason Ford dropped the design shorty after Model A production began. They have inherent problems that get worse over time. It wasn't the best design especially compared to the "modern" single disc and pressure plate configuration. For cost and reliability reasons it would be more practical to convert to a conventional clutch and flywheel unless you absolutely want accurate period authenticity. But when it comes to the clutch, no one will ever know.

nkaminar · 09-05-2022, 02:49 PM

The multidisk clutch works well when it works. There are no new parts being made. You will have to look around for used parts that are in good condition or convert over to the single plate clutch. The input shaft on the transmission will have to be changed too if you go to the single plate clutch.

For used parts try https://www.brattons.com/ or some of the other Model A parts dealers. Or put up want ads.

d. · 09-05-2022, 05:02 PM

Ft Wayne Clutch has been mentioned many times as a go-to for Multi-disk clutch refacing. I believe they are based in Detroit.
Let us know how you make out on this project.

larrys40 · 09-05-2022, 05:52 PM

I have done them in the past and have a krw clutch compressor which certainly helps and some parts but limited.
Send photos of what you have . I’m in the back of the Model A news or restorer.
Larry Shepard

rotorwrench · 09-05-2022, 06:02 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

They are based in Ft Wayne, Indiana.

The linings for the friction plates are very much like the linings on the single disc clutch plate. The wear factor is another thing to consider since the teeth wear in the drum and on the hub. If the teeth are good and the steels aren't too scored or burned then a plate can be reused. Reline the frictions and clean up the steels.

In service, the clutch lining material that wears off would pack into the grooves of the drum and after a time it would cause the plates to stick and not move in the grooves. It took a while to have problems but eventually they would need to have the crud removed to make them effective again.

History · 09-05-2022, 07:41 PM

Sounds similar to motorcycle clutch?

Jim Mason · 09-05-2022, 08:02 PM

http://jmodela.coffeecup.com/clutch.html

Roadster62 · 09-05-2022, 11:05 PM

Are the Bellhousings the same Multi Disk and later single disk? Somehow I think the pedals and linkage differs, if you plan to upgrade to the newer style.

Bob

john charlton · 09-06-2022, 01:52 AM

The bell housings and pedals are different and not interchangeable . Quick outside identification the single clutch has an oblong inspection plate the multi has a square one .

John in sunny spells Suffolk County England .

Gene F · 09-07-2022, 07:14 PM

Ft Wayne is what I would say too. If you get stuck and no one can help you get back to me. I MAY have some good used parts in the garage. What is the problem with your existing flywheel? So do you actually drive this car Sir?

Don Turley · 09-07-2022, 07:49 PM

If you decide to convert from the multi-disc clutch to the single disc clutch, you will be replacing everything from the clutch housing (aka bell housing) to the universal joint housing, including the transmission. Parts from one configuration are not compatible with the other. I'm speaking from experience.

rotorwrench · 09-08-2022, 11:31 AM

The universal joint clam shells will need the brake equalizer mountings on early 1928 cars if it is still equipped that way. I'm not sure if the transmission case has to be replaced. It may just be the input shaft. The bell housing is different so it has to be replaced.

Jim Mason · 09-08-2022, 12:03 PM

Relief for the input shaft is different

rotorwrench · 09-08-2022, 02:46 PM

I guess the transmission case didn't have any bolt holes for a front retainer since it didn't need it. The throw out bearing slid on the special shaft. The photos above in post #14 illustrate the first two versions or the #2 & #3 versions for the multi disk clutch and early single disk type at least at the description I've found. The later cases can be used with the multi disk set up but not the other way around.

Link to photos that show the transmission front area of case.
http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...l-Aug-2003.pdf

This is another good article on multi disc clutches.
http://jmodela.coffeecup.com/clutch.html

This one touches on case differences.
https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/atransmissioncases.htm

Gene F · 09-08-2022, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Turley

If you decide to convert from the multi-disc clutch to the single disc clutch, you will be replacing everything from the clutch housing (aka bell housing) to the universal joint housing, including the transmission. Parts from one configuration are not compatible with the other. I'm speaking from experience.

The pedals are different too.

rotorwrench · 09-08-2022, 10:34 PM

The braking system is different too so it also has to be considered. The clutch pedal used a clock spring for return at least for a while. A lot of stuff can be made to work but not all of it for sure.

mbaughman · 09-09-2022, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gene F

Ft Wayne is what I would say too. If you get stuck and no one can help you get back to me. I MAY have some good used parts in the garage. What is the problem with your existing flywheel? So do you actually drive this car Sir?

My flywheel has some pretty heavy notches cut in by the clutch discs. I am afraid the clutch may get hungup on one of those and get stuck.

mbaughman · 09-09-2022, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The braking system is different too so it also has to be considered. The clutch pedal used a clock spring for return at least for a while. A lot of stuff can be made to work but not all of it for sure.

Yes, my truck has the parking brake on the left side, the pedals are different ( and the shaft ). The transmission has the larger hole for the idler gear shaft.

Really trying to keep it all configured as it was.

rotorwrench · 09-09-2022, 10:13 AM

A worn flywheel drum would be difficult to repair. I'd check with any and all parts hoarders I could before trying to repair one. Good ones may be difficult to find but there is likely one or two out there somewhere. This is where accurate restorations can get costly. Keeping the very early cars original has a lot of challenges.

09-05-2022, 05:02 PM	#4
d. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 510	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel Ft Wayne Clutch has been mentioned many times as a go-to for Multi-disk clutch refacing. I believe they are based in Detroit. Let us know how you make out on this project.

09-05-2022, 05:52 PM	#5
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel I have done them in the past and have a krw clutch compressor which certainly helps and some parts but limited. Send photos of what you have . I’m in the back of the Model A news or restorer. Larry Shepard

09-05-2022, 06:02 PM	#6
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) They are based in Ft Wayne, Indiana. The linings for the friction plates are very much like the linings on the single disc clutch plate. The wear factor is another thing to consider since the teeth wear in the drum and on the hub. If the teeth are good and the steels aren't too scored or burned then a plate can be reused. Reline the frictions and clean up the steels. In service, the clutch lining material that wears off would pack into the grooves of the drum and after a time it would cause the plates to stick and not move in the grooves. It took a while to have problems but eventually they would need to have the crud removed to make them effective again.

09-05-2022, 07:41 PM	#7
History Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: NC Mountains Posts: 689	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel Sounds similar to motorcycle clutch?

09-05-2022, 08:02 PM	#8
Jim Mason Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 914	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel http://jmodela.coffeecup.com/clutch.html __________________ www.jmodela.coffeecup.com Fwiw, jm.

09-05-2022, 08:41 AM	#1
mbaughman Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Bloomington, IN Posts: 20	1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel I spun the clutch in my 28 Model A RPU and need a source for having the clutch discs reworked, any thoughts? Or, maybe a source for some replacement discs? Also will most likely need a flywheel based on the ridges cut in the drive teeth, any source for a flywheel?

09-05-2022, 01:33 PM	#2
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Waxahachie, Texas Posts: 949	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel I've never had any personal experience with multi-plate clutches and flywheels, but have read about them and spoken to some of the old-timers who said that there was a reason Ford dropped the design shorty after Model A production began. They have inherent problems that get worse over time. It wasn't the best design especially compared to the "modern" single disc and pressure plate configuration. For cost and reliability reasons it would be more practical to convert to a conventional clutch and flywheel unless you absolutely want accurate period authenticity. But when it comes to the clutch, no one will ever know.

09-05-2022, 02:49 PM	#3
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,901	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel The multidisk clutch works well when it works. There are no new parts being made. You will have to look around for used parts that are in good condition or convert over to the single plate clutch. The input shaft on the transmission will have to be changed too if you go to the single plate clutch. For used parts try https://www.brattons.com/ or some of the other Model A parts dealers. Or put up want ads. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

09-05-2022, 11:05 PM	#9
Roadster62 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ridgefield, Ct Posts: 3,441	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel Are the Bellhousings the same Multi Disk and later single disk? Somehow I think the pedals and linkage differs, if you plan to upgrade to the newer style. Bob __________________ They don't have to run to be enjoyed. I'm here to enjoy the hobby, and enjoy the cars no matter what they look like. Most of the worlds problems are electrical.

09-06-2022, 01:52 AM	#10
john charlton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,304	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel The bell housings and pedals are different and not interchangeable . Quick outside identification the single clutch has an oblong inspection plate the multi has a square one . John in sunny spells Suffolk County England .

09-07-2022, 07:14 PM	#11
Gene F Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,974	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel Ft Wayne is what I would say too. If you get stuck and no one can help you get back to me. I MAY have some good used parts in the garage. What is the problem with your existing flywheel? So do you actually drive this car Sir?

09-07-2022, 07:49 PM	#12
Don Turley Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: GA 30809 Posts: 629	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel If you decide to convert from the multi-disc clutch to the single disc clutch, you will be replacing everything from the clutch housing (aka bell housing) to the universal joint housing, including the transmission. Parts from one configuration are not compatible with the other. I'm speaking from experience.

09-08-2022, 11:31 AM	#13
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel The universal joint clam shells will need the brake equalizer mountings on early 1928 cars if it is still equipped that way. I'm not sure if the transmission case has to be replaced. It may just be the input shaft. The bell housing is different so it has to be replaced.

09-08-2022, 02:46 PM	#15
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel I guess the transmission case didn't have any bolt holes for a front retainer since it didn't need it. The throw out bearing slid on the special shaft. The photos above in post #14 illustrate the first two versions or the #2 & #3 versions for the multi disk clutch and early single disk type at least at the description I've found. The later cases can be used with the multi disk set up but not the other way around. Link to photos that show the transmission front area of case. http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...l-Aug-2003.pdf This is another good article on multi disc clutches. http://jmodela.coffeecup.com/clutch.html This one touches on case differences. https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/atransmissioncases.htm Last edited by rotorwrench; 09-08-2022 at 10:30 PM.

09-08-2022, 10:34 PM	#17
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel The braking system is different too so it also has to be considered. The clutch pedal used a clock spring for return at least for a while. A lot of stuff can be made to work but not all of it for sure.

09-09-2022, 10:13 AM	#20
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: 1928 Model A Multi disc clutch and flywheel A worn flywheel drum would be difficult to repair. I'd check with any and all parts hoarders I could before trying to repair one. Good ones may be difficult to find but there is likely one or two out there somewhere. This is where accurate restorations can get costly. Keeping the very early cars original has a lot of challenges.