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08-30-2020, 07:34 PM | #1 |
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Thread - I screwed up
1950 Mercury-shinny new stroker engine - at the bottom of the stock radiator is an drain petcock. As I needi a thermoratic switch to control the new electric fan, I had the radiator shop add a bung to the bottom radiator tank of the same thread as the drain petcock, which they did.
I Amazoned a good looking 170° thermo-switch, learning that 'good looking' isn't a good way to specify threads. I doesn't fit, likely metric. Can someone tell me what the threads are? Like 3/5NPT or some such so I can reorder a proper switch, i.e. one that actually fits. Thanks I'm getting closer to engine swap scheduled for Sept28 - I need to figure out changing the 4bbl Edelbrock carb for throttle linkage to the pass side as its now on the drivers side. Who sells linkages? |
08-30-2020, 08:10 PM | #2 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
Is the bottom of the radiator the cool spot or the hot spot. I don't know, but if it's the cool spot aren't you getting the wrong readings for the fan.
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08-30-2020, 08:25 PM | #3 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
>>>3/5NPT or some such>>>
No such. Better check with the shop which NPT fitting they installed. Jack E/NJ |
08-30-2020, 09:06 PM | #4 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
a thread pitch gauge would be best, they are cheap, you will use it again. if not, grab some stuff and try to thread it in there! most likely 1/8" pipe thread, like a drain petcock, or 1/4 " pipe, like an air tool fitting. just try a few things, with your fingers, no wrench, dont wreck it, and figger out what size you have
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08-30-2020, 09:40 PM | #5 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
A suggestion: When you wire up your fan I would recommend that you consider including a toggle switch somewhere in the circuit to activate the fan in the event that the sensor fails. This happened to me on a road trip and I had to jury rig a wire to keep the fan on to get back home.
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08-31-2020, 06:12 AM | #6 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
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08-31-2020, 06:24 AM | #7 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
why not use the senser probe that comes with a thermostat then you can dial in the
temp the fan comes on. With the thermo switch your kind of stuck with its setting. With the probe you stick it right through the radiator fins quick easy. And yes bottom is cool and the top is hot maybe half way up for the sensor. |
08-31-2020, 08:25 AM | #8 | |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
Quote:
Also agree with the toggle switch override. Have experienced a couple of thermo switch failures...and mine always failed in the "off" position! |
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08-31-2020, 08:48 AM | #9 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
Drain petcocks are normally 1/4 npt. Does the drain petcock fit in the new bung?
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08-31-2020, 08:56 AM | #10 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
Here's an idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVysqXm81aw Years ago I installed an electric fan that came with a thermostatic sensor switch that could easily be attached to the radiator and also controlled the temp. at which the fan came on. There was also a manual switch under the dash to override the sensor. Any reason you can't plug your fitting at the bottom (wrong location) and just install a sensor that mounts on the radiator and can be controlled with a manual switch if desired? Last edited by 19Fordy; 08-31-2020 at 09:03 AM. |
08-31-2020, 09:03 AM | #11 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
mines an early girl with one sender so ran the thermo switch of the other head gauge shows one side and can tell when fans cut in so know what the others doing Thermo switch is a grounding type so just piggy backed a ground wire thru a on/off switch for manual control
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09-07-2020, 03:44 AM | #12 | |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
Quote:
While I'm in the minority here regarding sensor location, however I'm quite convinced I'm correct. The contra opinions caused me to think about it. Radiator cooling happens from the fan OR from car speed OR both, even depending upon outside air temperature. The radiator must provide cooling of the water which enters at the top and exits at the bottom. At highway speeds on a cool day moving air provides adequate radiator cooling and the electric fan just isn't needed. Placing the sensor at the outlet of the radiator works properly for that condition. Placing the sensor where water is always hot doesn't cover the high speed cool day situation. I will report results once I get the car on the road with it's new engine. |
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09-07-2020, 03:50 AM | #13 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
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Paul....Is it more important for the fan to cool HOT water, or to cool water that has already been cooled after going through the radiator? Just curious! DD |
09-07-2020, 06:10 AM | #14 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
“Placing the sensor where water is always hot doesn't cover the high speed cool day situation.“ If your traveling at road speed on a cool day, the motor won’t get the water hot enough to trigger the fan sensor anyway. But, on a hot day in traffic the sensor will trigger the fan and start cooling the water sooner.......Mark
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09-07-2020, 10:51 AM | #15 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
This is from the Speedway site " Make sure the fan switch is mounted in the manifold or radiator tank so that the bulb is submerged in the HOT engine coolant."
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09-09-2020, 09:04 AM | #16 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
we seem to be missing something what temp is the sender and what is its range yes normal postition is below the thermostat and setting reflects this around 195 on and 185 off with 175/180 thermostat however if the switch was low enough in temp range it could be set at the rad outlet /waterpump inlet some jap engines do this and it is usualy done where the thermostat is in the lower hose junction [landcruisers come to mind ]
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09-15-2020, 06:19 AM | #17 | |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
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What we are discussing is the source of the air flowing through the radiator fins, how to control it when a greater flow of air is needed. So, Coup,... my answer to your important question: ... it is NOT important to cool water that has already been cooled. But how can that happen that hot water was already cooled? Hot water won't get cooled by the radiator simply because the radiator says "Cool It". If it flows through the radiator without air flow through the radiator fins, hot water entering WILL STAY HOT on exit. I think the water cooling concept muddles our thinking because the dash temp gauge monitors temperature of water leaving the engine. As well it should. Plus the standard fan is a permanent fixture, always providing air flow. One must think of the radiator as a device capable of cooling water if and only if, air is made to flow through the fins, either with car speed or a fan. Come to think, perhaps throttle control could be added to a heat sensor. But officer, the car engine was simply cooling itself. |
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09-15-2020, 06:37 AM | #18 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
Just read an article in current HOT ROD magazine on this topic. Apparently new cars have a temperature sensor at the inlet to the water pump and attempt to maintain 200-220°F for best coolant results.
Water pump inlet is the same as lower radiator tank. Done please...I'm 2 weeks away from engine install in my restomod Merc. That's where my head is at. Restomod is perhaps a mis-lable but the 286 flathead is reputed to be 200 hp. A stroker and pretty. |
09-15-2020, 04:46 PM | #19 | ||
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
Quote:
Quote:
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09-15-2020, 07:14 PM | #20 | |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
Quote:
Read this pertinent article in Hot Rod... https://www.hotrod.com/articles/tech...itch-location/ It would seem that car manufacturers don't agree on location any more than we do. However I seek an understanding. Last edited by Paul Bennett; 09-15-2020 at 10:18 PM. |
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09-16-2020, 03:02 AM | #21 | |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
Quote:
The only exception is if it were a reverse flow system.
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09-16-2020, 07:51 AM | #22 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
From my perspective, don't think it matters all that much. You're trying to turn the fan on when the water gets to a certain temperature, hoping that once it gets turned on that it generates enough air-flow to cool the water of the whole circulating system before it boils. Is 170 degrees that magic number for where you're installing it . . . who knows. I'd prefer an adjustable sensor/switch, but I'd try yours first and see where it comes on in reference to what your temp gauge is telling you. You'll soon find out if it is too late . . . or not. Report back on what you find . . .
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09-16-2020, 03:19 PM | #23 | |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
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https://www.hotrod.com/articles/tech...itch-location/ I don't know....possibly a different hobby like knitting, where there are far fewer difficult technical decisions to worry about. |
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09-16-2020, 03:39 PM | #24 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
Here is a quote from the linked article.
"The temperature probe should be plugged into the system where the coolant is hottest—generally, the thermostat housing, in the coolant passages adjacent to it, or in the water jacket of the cylinder heads." |
09-16-2020, 07:55 PM | #25 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
Sure looks like we are taking something simple and trying to make it difficult. As Bob posted:
"The temperature probe should be plugged into the system where the coolant is hottest—generally, the thermostat housing, in the coolant passages adjacent to it, or in the water jacket of the cylinder heads." Now if you have an adjustable probe turn on temp probe (which I use on one of my vehicles) or you can select lower turn on temperature probe you might be able to work it out. But, why take something so simple and make it difficult? I have a digital controller that I can adjust the temperature that the fan kicks in from the drivers seat and it provides a digital readout. It also is linked to the AC compressor and has a cooldown timer when the engine is turned off. If you want to go to all this trouble, then I would suggest this type of setup. |
09-17-2020, 08:15 AM | #26 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
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The engine thermostats control engine temperature The fan sensor SHOULD read the water temperature at the bottom tank/inlet side of the water pumps. There is no point in running the fan when the coolant temp is already below that of the engine thermostat |
09-17-2020, 08:43 AM | #27 | |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
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09-17-2020, 09:00 AM | #28 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
not to be argumentative but there is no benefit in running the fan unless the radiator is unable to shed the heat load. Most of the time a proper sized cooling system will rid itself of the heat load just moving thru the air.
When my car is setting at a stoplight the fan will cycle. As soon as it's moving you can watch the temperature gauge move down and the fan shut down even on 100 degree days |
09-17-2020, 10:55 AM | #29 | |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
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09-17-2020, 01:22 PM | #30 | |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
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09-18-2020, 11:07 AM | #31 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
Put a manuel switch on it..if ur old like me add a "idiot light" to it so your reminded if it's on or not..
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09-19-2020, 12:00 AM | #32 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
I don't know....possibly a different hobby like knitting, where there are far fewer difficult technical decisions to worry about.[/QUOTE]
Frankly I find this quite rude. Opinions are fine but personal attacks bother me when one member seeks advice and another member denigrates. Similar to posts on the other FB. |
09-19-2020, 01:33 AM | #33 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
HEY CALM DOWN as said in my post 16 it will work provided our friend has the correct temp switch for his location and conditions as he is still monitoring the coolant temp just its what is going into the eng not what is coming out so the switch settings will need to be a lot lower than what is considered normal when its placed at the thermostat and as i said before toyota already do this with some of their diesels . So in answer to our friends question yes it will work but a lot of experimenting will be required JUST CAUSE ITs DIFFERANT DONT MEAN ITS WRONG
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09-20-2020, 11:28 PM | #34 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
When I started this thread I was really interested learning only the thread size of the petcock. Yes, I did post a link which undermines the theory of my situation but I did as I was told, right or not.
I am glad and thank you all for the ideas presented. My conclusion now is: my sensor is in the WRONG place, at the bottom, it's gonna stay there, and it will work. Sort of. Thanks everyone for your thoughts. |
09-21-2020, 02:51 AM | #35 |
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Re: Thread - I screwed up
If you have a reliable temp gauge you could always rig an override switch so you can turn it on manually if stuck in traffic on a hot day and start feeling nervous. I have electric fans on my three on the road flathead powered cars and all they have is a manual switch.
Mart. |
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