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Old 04-21-2020, 09:23 PM   #1
falconsprint63
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Default 37 flatty questions

Bear with me here. I'm totally new to flathead. The 36 phaeton i just bought has a freshly rebuilt 24 stud 37 model engine. I've heard it run but can't get it to run consistently. Logic says fuel,fire and air and it should run.

The handful of times I've been able to get it running it's been off ether and or fuel through the carb so start with fuel.

Added a couple of gallons of gas, new lines front to rear. Doesn't appear to be pumping.

1) fuel pump. It's got a new bon drake fuel pump on it. How stiff should the diaphragm be? Should I be able to pump it manually relatively easily or is it super stiff? (Mine is super stiff)

2) the tech at dennis carpenter's suggested replacing the pump rod before trying an electric pump. How do you get the rod out? Has a push in retainer like a freeze plug holding it in. I just don't want to mess something up.

Moving on to spark. When I can get it to run off ether it will do it once, maybe twice then won't fire again. Almost like it's flooded. What am I missing here?

Any thoughts or recommendations appreciated.
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Old 04-21-2020, 09:26 PM   #2
TonyM
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

If it is 24 stud, then it is not a 1937 engine.

1937 engine is 21 stud.
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Old 04-21-2020, 09:43 PM   #3
falconsprint63
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

I bought the car from an estate. They said it was a 37 engine
The son was an A model guy so...

Can't get the image to attach

Last edited by falconsprint63; 04-21-2020 at 09:44 PM. Reason: More content
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Old 04-21-2020, 10:47 PM   #4
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

I think you probably need a couple of things. The first is a correct fuel pump rebuilt by "Charlie ny" on this forum and a rebuilt coil from "Skip" in Florida.

Before you do that, there are a couple of things you can do. Have you tried disconnecting the fuel line from the carburetor and turning the engine over with the carburetor end of the fuel line in a container just to see if it is pumping? Also, you could try puling a spark plug wire, holding it close to the block or head while turning the engine over with the ignition on to see if it produces strong blue spark or a weak orange one.

Obviously, don't try these at the same time. Report back the results.
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Old 04-21-2020, 10:58 PM   #5
falconsprint63
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

It is not pumping. I have the replacement pump rod but I'm trying to gauge if the diaphragm has gone bad. It's really hard to actuate manually buy does push air through. I suspect the rod is too short but I'm not sure how to take the retainer thing out.

I have not pulled the plugs to check because it runs if you splash a little gas in the carb. At least initially. Normally can't get it to repeat. Like it's flooded. But it shouldn't be
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Old 04-21-2020, 11:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

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It sure sounds like the fuel pump. Contact our own "Charlie ny". These days, just because it's new doesn't mean it's good.

I have had a few fuel pump problems, but never one with a bad pushrod. The old saying is : "If you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not Zebras".
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Old 04-22-2020, 12:44 AM   #7
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

If it is not pumping, you need to first check the flex line, on the intake side of the pump.

They can have small cracks in them, that you can't really see. If it sucks any air on that side of the pump, it can't pull gas into the fuel pump.

Pull the flex line off and put your finger over the inlet, while spinning the engine. You should feel some suction if the pump is good. If you do feel suction, the flex line has a leak or the gas line is pluged or leaking somewhere between there and the tank.
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Old 04-22-2020, 01:27 AM   #8
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

Is the fuel pump the type with a glass bowl?
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:00 AM   #9
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

You may have the wrong fuel pump rod since the engine was misidentified. There are for the most part 2 rods, 1 is an inch longer then the other. It has to do with which intake manifold is on the engine.
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Old 04-22-2020, 06:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

Picture of your engine is worth a thousand words. We might be able to tell you your correct engine and fuel situation.
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Old 04-22-2020, 07:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by falconsprint63 View Post
I bought the car from an estate. They said it was a 37 engine
The son was an A model guy so...

Can't get the image to attach
Until you get the photo posting sorted out you can email the photo file to a Barn member to post for you. My email is jseery@ymail.com.

The most common photo posting issue is the file size is over the limit.
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Old 04-22-2020, 07:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
Until you get the photo posting sorted out you can email the photo file to a Barn member to post for you. My email is jseery@ymail.com.

The most common photo posting issue is the file size is over the limit.
There were no 24 bolt engines till mid year1938
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Old 04-22-2020, 07:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by falconsprint63 View Post
Bear with me here. I'm totally new to flathead. The 36 phaeton i just bought has a freshly rebuilt 24 stud 37 model engine. I've heard it run but can't get it to run consistently. Logic says fuel,fire and air and it should run.

The handful of times I've been able to get it running it's been off ether and or fuel through the carb so start with fuel.

Added a couple of gallons of gas, new lines front to rear. Doesn't appear to be pumping.

1) fuel pump. It's got a new bon drake fuel pump on it. How stiff should the diaphragm be? Should I be able to pump it manually relatively easily or is it super stiff? (Mine is super stiff)

2) the tech at dennis carpenter's suggested replacing the pump rod before trying an electric pump. How do you get the rod out? Has a push in retainer like a freeze plug holding it in. I just don't want to mess something up.

Moving on to spark. When I can get it to run off ether it will do it once, maybe twice then won't fire again. Almost like it's flooded. What am I missing here?

Any thoughts or recommendations appreciated.
There is no freeze plug holding the rod in. It should just pull straight out. There is an "umbrella" on the rod , but it is not holding anything in.
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Old 04-22-2020, 10:57 PM   #14
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

The rod with 'umbrella"! DD


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Old 04-23-2020, 03:50 PM   #15
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

I doubt you have the same problem I had with my 37 but the rubber line from firewall to fuel pump was full of pinholes from the ethenol in gas. On a hunch I wrapped it with electrical tape and got it to run. I replaced the line with a ethenol resistant one.
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Old 04-23-2020, 09:38 PM   #16
falconsprint63
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

The pictured rod is what I ordered. There's definitely a retainer of some kind holding it in place. I'm going to download pics to my desktop tomorrow to upload them. Mobile isn't cooperating
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Old 04-24-2020, 12:54 PM   #17
falconsprint63
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

Finally got pics downloaded and resized to post. there's

1) a general pic of the engine--before anyone frets over it--the wire nut is gone.

2) A pic looking down into the fuel pump rod area. Note what appears to be a retainer of some sort. it keeps the rod from lifting straight out

3) while I've got your attention there's a pic of the flywheel area. there's a cover plate missing. are these reproduced? and where can i find one if they are/

thanks all
Attached Images
File Type: jpg engine bay.jpg (86.1 KB, 94 views)
File Type: jpg fuel pump rod retainer.jpg (62.9 KB, 93 views)
File Type: jpg flywheel.jpg (56.9 KB, 90 views)
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Old 04-24-2020, 12:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions


1) a general pic of the engine--before anyone frets over it--the wire nut is gone.


2) A pic looking down into the fuel pump rod area. Note what appears to be a retainer of some sort. it keeps the rod from lifting straight out




3) while I've got your attention there's a pic of the flywheel area. there's a cover plate missing. are these reproduced? and where can i find one if they are
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"Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!"
"We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes." - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0
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Old 04-24-2020, 02:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

looks like you have the truck oil pan with the removable rear section for changing a clutch without dropping the oil pan. that piece will be hard to find, and i dont think being reproduced. any pan from 35 to 48 will work. better check the old owner to see if its there
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Old 04-24-2020, 03:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: 37 flatty questions

Re the fuel pump push rod the "retainer" is the baffle tube. It pulls out. If you gently tap it side to side it will loosen and you can pull it out. I show one in a recent video. The fuel pump should have a corresponding tubular extension that is a snug fit down the center of the baffle tube. While an engine will still run ok with either piece missing, the breathing system and route the air takes when flowing through the engine is compromised.

This is the video you can see the baffle tube at about the 25:30 minute mark.
https://youtu.be/or1k-tQGEIo

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