39-40 Ford terminology

[adileo]

Hi guys

Ok educate me:

What is business coupe? I read that was the car with opera seats in back. Is this correct?

If yes what is 39-40 called with shelf in back?

Since 39-40’have split window. Is it still considered 5 window coupe?

[meric42]

It is my understanding that these are two different configurations. A 'Business Coupe' has no rear seats just a shelf, The 'Opera Coupe' has the two 'Jump' seats and no shelf. But I am bu no means an authority on these and look forward to this discussion.

[meric42]

Here is a picture of the parcel tray in my '41 'Business Coupe'

[meric42]

Apparently I (and many others) are wrong, as per the following link

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82033

According to this information the Business Coupe had the jump seats and the 'Coupe' had the tray

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by meric42

Here is a picture of the parcel tray in my '41 'Business Coupe'

What is an "Opera Coupe"? WHERE'S KUBE? DD

[Kube]

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In 1940, Ford did not build an "opera coupe". They built a "Business coupe" and simply, a "coupe". Both models were available in either the "Ford V8" (no more "standard" in 1940...) or "Deluxe" lines.
Many, in fact I'd venture to say most folks have since these were nearly "new" cars, mislabeled them. Heck, there are plenty of good reasons to do so. Still, Ford built them and as such could have called them whatever they wanted. They chose "coupe" and "business coupe".

A "business coupe" has a pair of small auxiliary seats directly behind the drivers seat. Access was provided by tipping either the right or left back rest forward.
This model was advertised to fit five adults comfortably. Um, perhaps that may have been so... IF the five adults were no more than 5" 3" and weighed no more than 100# each.

The "coupe" had a package tray behind the drivers seat. There was quite a large storage area accessed by lifting the hinged (at top) back rest. The advertising of that time suggested this was great place to stow salesman's cases, etc.


In 1939, Ford only offered one model of coupe... the "coupe". It was available in either the "standard" or "deluxe" lines.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

What is an "Opera Coupe"? WHERE'S KUBE? DD

Gimme a break, will ya! I was changing oil in a '40 Ford V8 COUPE. Came in for a break

[rotorwrench]

Kube must have been busy since he beat me to it. Ford never used the term "opera" that I'm aware of but then they never used the term "standard" either when referring to different models & types. It was either a Ford V8 or a Ford Deluxe. Owners, salesmen, and fans of the early Fords came up with a lot of terms to differentiate the models & types. The fold down seats were similar to opera seats so that term came in. 5-window was a term that came in to differentiate from the 3-window deluxe coupes of earlier years but the 3-window "Deluxe Coupes" had already had their end run in 1936.

The business coupe started production in the model A era and was geared toward traveling salesmen. This made it important for them to have access to the behind the seat area to stash their wares. Since a person could get back in there with some ease, this allowed for the installation of those jump seats.

[mhsprecher]

When I was In High school a buddy had a beautiful original 40 Ford coupe with the jump seats. I was always relegated to the jump seat. I was smaller then, but tall. I don’t remember that it was so bad.

[adileo]

Ok all thanks very much for educating me.

Since the 39-40 have a split window. Are they considered a five window? or no... just a coupe (I have shelf)

[Kube]

Originally Posted by adileo

Ok all thanks very much for educating me.

Since the 39-40 have a split window. Are they considered a five window? or no... just a coupe (I have shelf)

Technically speaking, just a "coupe".

[Kube]

I'm searching for a '40 business coupe for a restoration project. No junk...I prefer a decent (or better) body and at least fairly complete.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by adileo

Ok all thanks very much for educating me.

Since the 39-40 have a split window. Are they considered a five window? or no... just a coupe (I have shelf)

Believe you would have to state if you are referring to common slang or official Ford here!

[19Fordy]

The split back window is counted as one window. Front door windows adds two more.
Rear quarter windows add 2 more. Hence, the 5 window coupe.

[DavidG]

rotorwrench,


Ah, the pitfalls of the words "always" and in your case "never" as in "....they (Ford) never used the term 'standard' either....". I'm sure that you meant to add something like "in the 1939 and 1940 model years" as they most certainly used the term 'standard' for model designations immediately prior to those model years.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by DavidG

rotorwrench,


Ah, the pitfalls of the words "always" and in your case "never" as in "....they (Ford) never used the term 'standard' either....". I'm sure that you meant to add something like "in the 1939 and 1940 model years" as they most certainly used the term 'standard' for model designations immediately prior to those model years.

As far as I know, the term 'standard" was still used by Ford (officially) in to 1939. In 1940, there are numerous letters that are very specific in that the term "standard' was NOT to be used, even as reference.

[rotorwrench]

I agree that I should not have used the term "never" in relation to the term standard but "never should have" would be more agreeable. Ford Motors had a fellow running the sales end in those years that I've heard was not the best at his job. Henry liked him so he kept him around. Most sales forces would agree that the term standard kind of implies that it is second best. Folks that are on the spot for sales & advertising would have been appalled at using such a term to refer to the product they were trying to sell. I think the change happened after Ford finally made a change in their sales department and that was likely around the time that Ford stopped using that term. You notice that Special, Deluxe, and Super Deluxe started showing up in the 1941 line up. This is more in line with sales tactics used even today.

[DavidG]

I agree that 'standard' has no real appeal in the world of sales, but ironically some base models to this day have the letter "S" for their designation.

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by Kube

In 1940, Ford did not build an "opera coupe". They built a "Business coupe" and simply, a "coupe". Both models were available in either the "Ford V8" (no more "standard" in 1940...) or "Deluxe" lines.
Many, in fact I'd venture to say most folks have since these were nearly "new" cars, mislabeled them. Heck, there are plenty of good reasons to do so. Still, Ford built them and as such could have called them whatever they wanted. They chose "coupe" and "business coupe".

A "business coupe" has a pair of small auxiliary seats directly behind the drivers seat. Access was provided by tipping either the right or left back rest forward.
This model was advertised to fit five adults comfortably. Um, perhaps that may have been so... IF the five adults were no more than 5" 3" and weighed no more than 100# each.

The "coupe" had a package tray behind the drivers seat. There was quite a large storage area accessed by lifting the hinged (at top) back rest. The advertising of that time suggested this was great place to stow salesman's cases, etc.


In 1939, Ford only offered one model of coupe... the "coupe". It was available in either the "standard" or "deluxe" lines.

I know that's correct but it's counterintuitive. Dunno if it contributed to the terminology confusion but it seems the package tray version should have been called the Business Coupe because, well...it was advertised as useful for business. I doubt many salesmen bought the auxiliary seat version to haul around two little people.

[grumppyoldman]

My 41 is called a business coupe, it has the package tray and the access to the back is by raising the one piece seat back up like the hood. There are no seats back there just room for cases of whiskey or what ever. Maybe sneaking girl friends into drive in movies. (Those were the days). Al