The Ford Barn

agroubik · 02-13-2022, 04:05 PM

Hello all,

I was attempting to start up my Model “A” earlier this afternoon but the starter would not turn. I charged my battery overnight and the charger said the battery was fully charged.

So, I removed the starter and bench tested it by attaching some jumper cables to my battery, grounding the negative end on the starter and touching the positive end to the node of the starter (I removed the starter switch). The starter turned, but at a very low and inconsistent RPM. I had bench tested the motor before, about a year ago, and it turned at a much higher RPM and it was a consistent RPM, so I’m almost certain the issue lies with the starter itself.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what the issue may be?

Gary WA · 02-13-2022, 04:56 PM

Or your battery shows good after a charge but Not! Need to load test it! take to auto parts they will load test it !

Patrick L. · 02-13-2022, 05:05 PM

I agree with Gary regarding the battery.

Make sure the cables are heavy enough [ #0 or #1 ] and the connections are clean and tight. Especially the ground at the frame.

Also I prefer to test the starter on the vehicle. A ' hold on to ' ammeter is fairly cheap and easy to use. Anything over 450-500 amps is getting to be too much draw. Around 400 amps is better.

dansluck · 02-13-2022, 08:52 PM

The Model A Ford has a positive ground. Negative cable goes to starter switch. 6volt starters need heavy battery cables.

Good Luck
Dan

henry's 31 · 02-13-2022, 09:08 PM

We just finished helping a fellow club member with a similar problem. He purchased a new battery a week ago and the car would not turn over. I checked the starter terminal and would register over 6 volts. I tought it was the starter and placed another one I had and still the engine would not turn over. My fellow club member took the new battery back to the auto part store and the battery was DEFECTIVE! He got a new battery and the car started immediately. Moral of the story: Just because its a new battery it could be defective, Besides checking the voltage, they need to check it with a load.

henry's 31 · 02-13-2022, 09:09 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Also make sure all the connections are tight.

Vic in E-TN · 02-13-2022, 09:33 PM

Years ago when I got my first Model A I had a starter problem. Eventually my wife would not help by pushing the car down my slightly downhill street. I took the starter to a repair shop and the problem was a bent starter shaft. They were able to straighten it out. It is now my spare.

Vic

Herb Concord Ca · 02-14-2022, 02:05 PM

With starter removed from car check end play, should be .010-.020". If less the rear bushing (Bendix end) needs to be adjusted.

Crankster · 02-14-2022, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic in E-TN

Eventually my wife would not help by pushing the car down my slightly downhill street.

“Ass, grass, or gas. Nobody rides for free.”

nkaminar · 02-14-2022, 03:52 PM

If you have doubts about the battery, you can just use jumper cables to your modern car 12 volt battery. I will not hurt the starter for a short duration. Hold the starter with your foot. The polarity does not matter, the starter will work with either polarity.

Cool Hand Lurker · 02-14-2022, 06:30 PM

Check the starter switch that is on top of the starter. It may not be making a good contact.
This photo came from the H.A.M.B. forum and shows how a solenoid could be hooked up. The Model A switch is reversed and the cable is attached to the forward terminal. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...6-jpg.3083907/

Busmoss · 02-14-2022, 08:30 PM

I just went through similar problem. Checked battery and cables like you said. Bench tested etc. Disassembled for a look inside and found my issue. Mine ended up being the rear armature bushing was pulverized. I replaced the bushing and then drilled a tiny hole in the back plate so I can oil it every now and again.

kawagumby · 02-15-2022, 09:46 AM

A worn-out commutator (surface starting to miss plating) will do that too. Inconsistent and slow.

DHZIEMAN · 02-22-2022, 02:13 PM

I venture you have a vehicle with a 12 volt battery! Don't do this for very long but just touch the terminals to the starter and see if it runs! If so you may have a bad 6 v battery. otherwise if it does not run any better, could be brushes or ??

Clem Clement · 02-22-2022, 02:56 PM

Brushes good?" Commutator clean and shiny/

McMimmcs · 02-22-2022, 04:56 PM

Is it a 12 volt System?

Chuck Sea/Tac · 02-22-2022, 09:07 PM

Where’d ya go?

nkaminar · 02-22-2022, 11:03 PM

Argoubik, What was the resolution of your starter problem? Or are you still working on it? We all learn from these discussions, even us old farts who have been around Model A's since they were new.

02-13-2022, 04:56 PM	#2
Gary WA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Clinton,WA/Whidbey Island Posts: 4,105	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque Or your battery shows good after a charge but Not! Need to load test it! take to auto parts they will load test it ! __________________ www.whidbeymodelaclub.com

02-13-2022, 05:05 PM	#3
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque I agree with Gary regarding the battery. Make sure the cables are heavy enough [ #0 or #1 ] and the connections are clean and tight. Especially the ground at the frame. Also I prefer to test the starter on the vehicle. A ' hold on to ' ammeter is fairly cheap and easy to use. Anything over 450-500 amps is getting to be too much draw. Around 400 amps is better. Last edited by Patrick L.; 02-13-2022 at 09:54 PM.

02-13-2022, 08:52 PM	#4
dansluck Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Nevada Posts: 217	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque The Model A Ford has a positive ground. Negative cable goes to starter switch. 6volt starters need heavy battery cables. Good Luck Dan

02-13-2022, 09:08 PM	#5
henry's 31 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Columbus(Cataula) Georgia Posts: 849	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque We just finished helping a fellow club member with a similar problem. He purchased a new battery a week ago and the car would not turn over. I checked the starter terminal and would register over 6 volts. I tought it was the starter and placed another one I had and still the engine would not turn over. My fellow club member took the new battery back to the auto part store and the battery was DEFECTIVE! He got a new battery and the car started immediately. Moral of the story: Just because its a new battery it could be defective, Besides checking the voltage, they need to check it with a load. __________________ Henry' s 31

02-13-2022, 09:09 PM	#6
henry's 31 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Columbus(Cataula) Georgia Posts: 849	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Also make sure all the connections are tight. __________________ Henry' s 31

02-13-2022, 04:05 PM	#1
agroubik Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2022 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 2	Starter is not generating enough torque Hello all, I was attempting to start up my Model “A” earlier this afternoon but the starter would not turn. I charged my battery overnight and the charger said the battery was fully charged. So, I removed the starter and bench tested it by attaching some jumper cables to my battery, grounding the negative end on the starter and touching the positive end to the node of the starter (I removed the starter switch). The starter turned, but at a very low and inconsistent RPM. I had bench tested the motor before, about a year ago, and it turned at a much higher RPM and it was a consistent RPM, so I’m almost certain the issue lies with the starter itself. Does anyone have any thoughts on what the issue may be?

02-13-2022, 09:33 PM	#7
Vic in E-TN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 491	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque Years ago when I got my first Model A I had a starter problem. Eventually my wife would not help by pushing the car down my slightly downhill street. I took the starter to a repair shop and the problem was a bent starter shaft. They were able to straighten it out. It is now my spare. Vic

02-14-2022, 02:05 PM	#8
Herb Concord Ca Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Concord CA Posts: 637	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque With starter removed from car check end play, should be .010-.020". If less the rear bushing (Bendix end) needs to be adjusted.

02-14-2022, 03:52 PM	#10
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,897	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque If you have doubts about the battery, you can just use jumper cables to your modern car 12 volt battery. I will not hurt the starter for a short duration. Hold the starter with your foot. The polarity does not matter, the starter will work with either polarity. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

02-14-2022, 06:30 PM	#11
Cool Hand Lurker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Minn Posts: 1,565	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque Check the starter switch that is on top of the starter. It may not be making a good contact. This photo came from the H.A.M.B. forum and shows how a solenoid could be hooked up. The Model A switch is reversed and the cable is attached to the forward terminal. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...6-jpg.3083907/ Last edited by Cool Hand Lurker; 02-14-2022 at 06:42 PM. Reason: More info

02-15-2022, 09:46 AM	#13
kawagumby Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Hollister, CA Posts: 133	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque A worn-out commutator (surface starting to miss plating) will do that too. Inconsistent and slow.

02-22-2022, 02:13 PM	#14
DHZIEMAN Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Sunrise Beach, Mo Posts: 439	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque I venture you have a vehicle with a 12 volt battery! Don't do this for very long but just touch the terminals to the starter and see if it runs! If so you may have a bad 6 v battery. otherwise if it does not run any better, could be brushes or ??

02-22-2022, 02:56 PM	#15
Clem Clement Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 3,393	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque Brushes good?" Commutator clean and shiny/

02-22-2022, 04:56 PM	#16
McMimmcs Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Fort Gratiot, Michigan Posts: 2,296	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque Is it a 12 volt System?

02-22-2022, 09:07 PM	#17
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque Where’d ya go?

02-22-2022, 11:03 PM	#18
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,897	Re: Starter is not generating enough torque Argoubik, What was the resolution of your starter problem? Or are you still working on it? We all learn from these discussions, even us old farts who have been around Model A's since they were new. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.