Water left in car over winter

[michael a]

Can any of you tell me what damage their is to a model a motor after it freezes? I am looking at one long distance and the seller is assuring me that just the head is cracked, and I am not believing that. Thought maybe some of you had experience with frozen blocks.

[SeaSlugs]

well ive seen brazed up heads, water necks, but the block OK but ive also seen it crack the block...

Water and freezing forces are like electricity and tornados - can somewhat predict where its going to go and what it destroys but not all the time.

If you cant see it well buy it as if you would need to locate a replacement engine. Sometimes it looks crack free till it heats up again.

[Mitch//pa]

Nobody has a crystal balll ,, but assume it needs an engine... if it turns out to only be the head your (a-head) of the game

[3.6rs]

I read this often on this forum ; why is it that so many people don't add antifreeze in there engines !?
I had 1 frozen block many years ago when I had my first classic car, this will not happen again.

[Jacksonlll]

Look at the underside of the deck, just above the starter. Weak spot.

[1955cj5]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Though you won't be doing this test, about 1/2 way through he shows the areas to check.....a bright flashlight will help you see the cracks..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCI2JFTUiZE

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

If I drank lots of water & slept in the snow @ 12 degrees, would I freeze & CRACK?
Bill Shivvery

[Tom Wesenberg]

When I bought my 28 just the head was cracked.
I bought a nice looking block at an auction, but after pulling the side cover I found a large crack inside.

People will use only water because they are too cheap to buy antifreeze, or they believe water cools better. There is such a little difference in cooling between antifreeze and water, that they have radiator problems if they think they need to use water only. The only other reason I can think of is they think the reddish brown rusty water looks better than the green antifreeze.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by michael a

Can any of you tell me what damage their is to a model a motor after it freezes? I am looking at one long distance and the seller is assuring me that just the head is cracked, and I am not believing that. Thought maybe some of you had experience with frozen blocks.

Hey Michael,
In my other life, I lived up in Pa..
I had the misfortune of having left water(without antifreeze...lucky to afford the spring water then) in flatheads. Without the block being stripped down and without seeing it /examining it up close and in detail...I'd not take any change on buying any such block. Your luck may vary...

[cpf240]

My uncle said that they were cast iron blocks, and a non-pressurized system, so any expansion wouldn't be a problem....

I still dumped whatever was in there when the car arrived here, and refilled with 50/50 mix...

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

When I bought my 28 just the head was cracked.
I bought a nice looking block at an auction, but after pulling the side cover I found a large crack inside.

People will use only water because they are too cheap to buy antifreeze, or they believe water cools better. There is such a little difference in cooling between antifreeze and water, that they have radiator problems if they think they need to use water only. The only other reason I can think of is they think the reddish brown rusty water looks better than the green antifreeze.

'only tooo cheap to buy'....
Obviously you have never been in a broke persons...wholy shoes , where freezing water entering thru worn out souls....also freezes !

[George Miller]

Cast iron is brittle so it will crack very easy. I would be worried about the block being cracked.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Actual Model A experience ... with no theoretical cast iron guessing:

Like ice cubes in a strong metal ice tray, ice first expands upwards where there is no resistance. Who remembers metal ice trays with metal lift handles before plastic ice trays?

Short Version: 1962, (45 years ago), with totally rebuilt engine, with new rings, pistons & Babbitt, person forgot to drain radiator after short Model A use, and while I was away from home, it went down to 16 degrees the first night; 8 degrees the second night.

With water and no antifreeze, top of head cracked in center and lifted about 1/4" which relieved frozen water expansion pressure.

One week later, drained water, removed cracked head, installed another used head ..... block never cracked. Still have block in great shape, still have cracked head, & still have replaced head.

If possible, and if logical for a good deal, I would not hesitate to request going to his house, installing a used head, start the engine and check the oil & exterior for leaks. If he says NO, not worth the trip.

[old31]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

If I drank lots of water & slept in the snow @ 12 degrees, would I freeze & CRACK?
Bill Shivvery

Only on the side that was down in the snow

[flatford39]

If the head is cracked nine times out of ten the block is also. More than likely in a valve seat. I would assume you need a new motor.

[TRP]

I think someone else already said it... but if you can't inspect it yourself you'd be best off to assume that it's the worst case scenario.

My dos pesos,
Ted

[SSsssteamer]

Originally Posted by flatford39

If the head is cracked nine times out of ten the block is also. More than likely in a valve seat. I would assume you need a new motor.

Here in Washington State, usually the bottom of the water jacket just above the starter will blow out from a freeze before a valve seat will crack. We usually lose the valve seats from overheating, like overheating without enough water. Putting cold water into an overheated engine can crack an engine's valve seat too.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Per reply #13, to comment on the other phrase:

"the seller is assuring me that just the head is cracked, and I am not believing that. "

Appears that not conducting an on site visit would be about as helpful as asking him what kind of church he attends.

[MikeK]

Don't forget the radiator. Freezing pops the seams.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I've seen used cars on an auto transport freeze up & sometimes split the radiator. And belts that squeal & smoke because the water pump is frozen SOLID!
Bill Cold