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Old 07-19-2022, 05:36 AM   #41
Benson
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

I know that this an old posting but present day readers might try Ken Davis in DFW.

http://www.kendavismodela.com/Shocks.html

I do not know if they are still selling them.

I have been told that these shocks are NOT gas charged.

A friend bought a kit from someone else and installed gas shocks.

They rode very hard. I do not know if he tried Ken's shocks since he sold the car and has since died.

In the 60s and 70s when VW Type I (Bug) and Type IIIs (Fastback) were my daily drivers Volkswagen used oil shocks which were NOT gas charged.

VWs were of similar size and weight to Model As.

Last edited by Benson; 08-07-2022 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 07-19-2022, 10:53 AM   #42
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

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Originally Posted by eagle View Post
A lot of the original shocks are so wore out they dont do anything anyways.
Ditto
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Old 07-19-2022, 11:30 AM   #43
Brentwood Bob
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

I have several sets of originals for sale. I am rebuilding some cores.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315540
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311643
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Old 07-19-2022, 05:27 PM   #44
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

I got my 29 cabriolet in 1958-59 and none of the shocks were functioning after 100,000+ miles. I imagine that was the case for most A’s still running by then. As I recall a couple of the links were still present and at least one arm was broken. The shock bodies were all frozen. By the time I got it running again as my high school car, all the links and arms were off and at least a couple of the shock bodies were removed. So I drove it that way until I retired it for a hot rodded A Tudor with tube shocks. When I got back to rebuilding the cabriolet in recent years, I installed tube shocks. They are a definite improvement over none, but many miles have been put on many A’s with no shocks by most of who were driving A’s since the fifties and sixties.
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Old 07-19-2022, 06:13 PM   #45
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

I thoroughly agree with those who have said that the ride and controllability of a Model A without shockers is terrible and that the telescopic ones available from the vendors are too hard for a passenger car. I suspect they are sold as being for a Model A but are actually from another application and using them on our cars is a compromise. I wonder what is involved to have some made to the same specs except a softer ride. IMO, the first vendor to do it will sell a heap of them before others catch on.
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Old 08-03-2022, 08:46 PM   #46
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

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Back in 1969 I had no shocks when I bought my '29 standard coupe. I bought some of the stamped steel friction shocks from JC Whitney and installed them. They broke at the frame within two weeks. I didn't bother to replace or repair them after that, just drove it knowing the car would be a handful, and it was.
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Old 08-04-2022, 02:45 AM   #47
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

Most of the reports on this forum from Ken Davis seem to be good. If he has figured out which valve size (it's just a hole to let the oil thru) then why not use those?
If you buy something like Koni shocks they can be tuned for the vehicle. Tuning is changing the size of the hole. Small hole for the oil, hard. Big hole soft. No rocket science here!
The utes/pickups have whopping great rear spring. It is unlikely to move without added weight. I've still got an Aussie ute 13 leaf spring that was reset. It won't compress without about 8 tons of super. To match a shock to it you need no compression resistance, and lots of rebound resistance to stop the whip lash of the spring letting go. A lot of the bad ride can be from the jarring of a spring letting go.
With old leaf springs they are not going to need as much resistance as modern coil springs. The coils have virtually no resistance built in and are undriveable without shocks.
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Old 08-04-2022, 08:52 PM   #48
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

I did not have shocks on my truck (avatar pix.) It was um, ok on the road while in that condition.

By degrees I went through the undercarriage: high speed rear end, new front spring, brake linings/adjustment, new king-pins, lubricate springs.

Everything I did until the last increased my driving pleasure. Lubricating the springs made the car "galloping gertie" - like those kid shoes which propel you as you hop along.

I put the original front spring on and an ungreased rear spring from a Tudor (not quite as stiff as the pickup spring but still 10 leaves) and the car was restored to road-ability.

So lubrication CAN be a downside to handling.

Of course thinking on this - a perfectly adequate shock was available until late in the 1950s in a "friction shock" - which combined with spring lubrication might give you some degree of "control" to the rebound. A fairly instructive write-up at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fricti...shock_absorber

I see they're still around - and not frightfully expensive either. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Offen...BoC480QAvD_BwE

There is a principle in mechanics called "critical damping." A mass/spring combination will "vibrate" at some near natural frequency when displaced and released. Add in friction and you can create an "underdamped system" (i.e. a system with rebound/oscillation) or an "overdamped" system. (i.e. a system where oscillation is damped to the point where the system is "slow" to return to neutral.)

The optimal condition and I expect this is the case of car suspension is when the oscillation is "matched" by the friction to create a "critical" system - neither overdamped or underdamped but somewhere in-between. The nice thing about critical system is that the system finds its "neutral" in a minimum amount of time. More on "damping" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping

This kind of goes along with diagnosis of car mechanics when asked if your car needs shocks. They'll push down on the corner of the car and release testing all four corners: if the car makes a couple of oscillations before it settles down - you need shocks. Might be a good test of friction or houdaille type shock adjustment?

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Last edited by Joe K; 08-04-2022 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 08-04-2022, 09:26 PM   #49
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

With coil springs and a shock like the Koni Special D which are ideal for older more primitive suspension (this is where Koni made their name) you can adjust up the rebound only, quite hard. The compression resistance is almost zero. If you adjust it up too hard you can feel the wheels not coming down fast enough after a bump. They are basically leaving the road, so just back them off a bit and they are fine. You are good to go. A bit of testing/tuning and you'll get it right.
Supposedly, if you were on a rough road and the shocks are too tight then the suspension won't return to ride height fast enough and will get lower. Have't been there tho.
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:21 AM   #50
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

I bought Koni Shocks for the 1969 VW Fastback Type III (The fuel injected 65 HP model) in 1969.

Adjustment was easy.

1. Unbolt bottom of shock.

2. Collapse shock until it bottoms out.

3. Engage a slot for the valve in bottom of shock.

4. Turn CW to increase dampening.

5. Turn CCW to reduce dampening.

6. Extend shock and bolt it back up.

I do not know if they still work that way but that is how they worked 50 years ago.

Last edited by Benson; 08-07-2022 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:32 AM   #51
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

BTW the Model A Coupe had no shocks for the first 40,000 miles I drove it.

This worked fine until I replaced the rusty springs.

Then I needed shocks ... car was all over the road.

Last edited by Benson; 08-07-2022 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 08-06-2022, 09:40 AM   #52
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

Just put4 Stipe shocks on my '29 roadster, What a big difference it made. On our bumpy rural roads I have better control and a smoother ride.
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Old 08-06-2022, 01:38 PM   #53
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

I take my socks off every night when I go to bed.
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Old 08-06-2022, 09:56 PM   #54
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

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I take my socks off every night when I go to bed.
Why? You'll just have to put them back on again in the mornin'.
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Old 08-07-2022, 08:45 AM   #55
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

When I purchased my car the shocks were totally worn out. I purchased a new set of Stipe shocks and the ride difference is amazing. It was an expensive repair but well worth it in my opinion.
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Old 08-07-2022, 09:03 AM   #56
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

Got a set of friction shocks in a deal. Had to fab a mount for the rear. Cleaned polished and keep spring lubed. They work ok at dampening rebound and the car is safe at speed. Got to adjust them periodically, especially the rears,hey, you have to get under the car occasionally anyway..
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Old 08-09-2022, 11:20 PM   #57
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

I’m thinking this winter when I replace the leaf springs I’ll buy a set of more modern shocks at the same time. My car is mostly stock so I hate to do it but less expensive and better has a certain appeal also.
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Old 08-10-2022, 03:35 AM   #58
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

Ken Davis' shocks are bolt on rears. I put a pair on my 29 CCPU. These shocks he uses are are from a 65 Mustang rear. They have a 6.5 inch compressible length which is very close to the distance that the original Houdaille shock travels. The 65 Mustang weighed 2800 lbs. The 29 CCPU weighs 2300 and can carry a load of about 500 lbs in the bed. I have not found anyone else's tube shock kits that are anywhere close to these specs. I am impressed about how well they work.
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Old 08-12-2022, 09:01 AM   #59
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

Hello, with a car as light as roadsters are , they do need shocks, mine would almost fly over rough roads with bad shocks ,replaced with new original type holds the road much better and ride is also improved.If you have the ability, I would get a set of rebuilds or new original shocks, sounds like the tube type, not sure what you might be getting, the original type be a direct bolt on and work correctly. Don’t want to have to buy them twice.
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Old 08-12-2022, 01:01 PM   #60
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Default Re: How common is it to just take the shocks off?

I have a full set of Ken's shocks on a coupe, I like them. One thing to be aware of, if your front springs are worn, and the shackle is drooping close to the axle, that reduces the amount of travel the shock has, which isn't a lot to begin with.
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