The Death Wobble

[Franchise_24]

Refer to this long drawn out thread if you wish on what has been said thus far:
https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79078

When I hit a bump just right (normally a man hole cover) the cars front tires shake back and forth violently. At first I had to come to a complete stop for it to stop, after things I've done I can somewhat steer out of it. Here is what has been done (so much it is not in any particular order)'

1) Replaced steering arms (both, balls were egg shaped)
2) Replaced bad tie rod end (other was fine)
3) Replaced guts on both ends of the drag link
4) Replaced guts on both ends of the tie rod
5) Used rubber ball and changed plate on the wish bone
6) All new wheel bearings and races for the front
7) King pins have been pulled - they have fairly new bushings that were reamed.
8) Tightened all perches and any castle nut under there.
9) Set the toe-in
10) Tried good tires from my Coupe on the Leatherback to rule out bad tires

Worried that it might be tracing back to the steering box. Tightened the pitman arm as well so there is no play there.

You can move the tires left and right slightly with the car jacked up and the steering wheel doesn't move

Just wanted to present the list of everything that has been done and see if anyone can offer any more suggestions.

Thank you,
Neal

[todd3131]

I know this is a stupid question based on all the work you have done, but shortly after I completed my restoration I had the same problem and the only thing with mine was I didn't have the drag link tightened enough I just screwed it in several turns and the problem went away. If everything else is tight or new it is the only thing left. How is the toe in?
Todd

[Franchise_24]

Originally Posted by todd3131

I know this is a stupid question based on all the work you have done, but shortly after I completed my restoration I had the same problem and the only thing with mine was I didn't have the drag link tightened enough I just screwed it in several turns and the problem went away. If everything else is tight or new it is the only thing left. How is the toe in?
Todd

I forgot to add that the toe-in was set in. My concern is when you move the tires left and right there is that little bit of play with the pitman arm moving and the steering wheel isn't moving. Anyone think it might be something with the steering box?

And also, how much did you screw it in? Past the point that end end is flush with the drag link end?

[todd3131]

If the pitman arm moves that is a good possibility mine is loose though and I don't have the problem but the winter project is to take out the steering gear and figure out why I can adjust it up with out having drag. My screws go past the end but I would refer to the service bulletins for proper amount, but they should be tight, to the point the spring has some tension on it.

[gweilbaker]

Is the spring tired? The shackles shouldn't be horizontal but more vertical.

[Franchise_24]

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Originally Posted by gweilbaker

Is the spring tired? The shackles shouldn't be horizontal but more vertical.

The spring is in good shape.

[sphanna]

I had the same problem when I first got my coupe. Finally, the last think I did was to remove the rubber ball from the wishbone under the transmission. I went back to original set up. You will have to purchase the retainer kit because the original steel ball is smaller than the rubber ball. This fixed the problem and have not had a problem for 5 years now. The oversized rubber affects the caster in a negative way.

[Patrick L.]

I think this was asked before, but, I don't remember the answer..I think you mentioned the steering box being OK.. How much steering wheel free-play is there ?? If there is more than about 1.5" then an adjustment may help if it is a 2 tooth box and there are 4 adjustments which should be done in proper order..

[Franchise_24]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

I think this was asked before, but, I don't remember the answer..I think you mentioned the steering box being OK.. How much steering wheel free-play is there ?? If there is more than about 1.5" then an adjustment may help if it is a 2 tooth box and there are 4 adjustments which should be done in proper order..

It's a 7 tooth box, and there is some play there. I think that is there are shims in the bottom by the light switch control that can be modified to tighten things up? The 1 adjustment on the side is as tight as it will go.

[700rpm]

Neal, I would suspect both the 7-tooth box and the rubber ball. I had both of these situations on my '29 Tudor; getting rid of the rubber ball helped, but did not solve, the problem. My local Model A expert said the steering box needed to be rebuilt and adjusted and I needed to replace that wishbone with one that had a good ball. In the meantime, before I get to all that, I have installed one of the hydraulic anti-shimmy devices on the front axle, and that seems so have relieved the problem until I can get to the major stuff.

[Franchise_24]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

Neal, I would suspect both the 7-tooth box and the rubber ball. I had both of these situations on my '29 Tudor; getting rid of the rubber ball helped, but did not solve, the problem. My local Model A expert said the steering box needed to be rebuilt and adjusted and I needed to replace that wishbone with one that had a good ball. In the meantime, before I get to all that, I have installed one of the hydraulic anti-shimmy devices on the front axle, and that seems so have relieved the problem until I can get to the major stuff.

Ray,

As far as the ball goes, does it just get out of shape like the steering arms do? I heard something about taking the rubber ball part off and adding a washer or something under the metal ball, anyone hear of that before?

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Franchise_24

Ray,

As far as the ball goes, does it just get out of shape like the steering arms do? I heard something about taking the rubber ball part off and adding a washer or something under the metal ball, anyone hear of that before?

Yes, it just wears out of round. I haven't tried the washers. I found a good original wishbone with a round ball for $25 at a swap, and I will eventually install that in my Tudor. I don't think they're hard to find, but I've been told even an odd one can be built up and ground back to proper size and shape.

[Jim Huseby]

Don't take me wrong (and I know you have already heavily reflected on this), but with less time and effort than you've already expended, you could have removed the front axle assembly including brakes, spring and wishbone and done a precision rebuild of every little component. With the excellent and extensive advice you've gotten on this thread, you could now do a superb and comprehensive job. Your A deserves this, and so does your driving experience. IMO, the A was a finely built machine and when carefully and properly restored to specs there is just nothing like the driving pleasure. IMO having an A "adequate" is not the same as "excellent". Two different worlds, and you should be enjoying the "excellent".
Too much caster has been mentioned as a contributing factor and can be measured on the car with the plumbob method or an angle finder. Do this with the size tires, tire pressures and spring heights you're going to run. If the front spring is de-arched too much that will increase caster. Frame sag, normally concentrated near the rear motor mount and front body mount area, will also increase caster a slight amount. Look at your gap between the front body mounts and frame and your hood fit for indications of frame sag, sideways bending or diamonding. It is easy to measure the axle on the bench for bends and twists and should be done while it is out of the car. There was a recent thread about axles. Also, look for a crack or break on the radius rods where they attach to the axle. While you have the spring out, clean the heck out of the front crossmember top and bottom to inspect for cracks there. There is an easy way to make a close guess on frame twist and spring lopsidedness with a floor jack. Thanks for getting this interesting thread started.

[David J]

I have had the " death wobble " on cars over the years and IF the balls are ROUND I bottom out the spring and then back the screw out 3 turns . No more death wobble . If the balls aren't round you need to set this at the worn point otherwise it will bind when you turn it due to no clearance . This is on 33-34 cars but as far as the tie rod & drag link go they are Model A's .

[Patrick L.]

I thought we talked about the wishbone before,, maybe not though.. I thought we did because it can certainly be part of a shimmy.. There are two types.. The original is all metal and the ball is 1.5" dia. and when the ball wears the old fix was a fender washer 'warped' into a cup.. It works.. But, now the vendors sell such a washer.. I think most install the washer on the bottom,, but,, I install it on the top because I'd rather increase the caster a bit [ it probably doesn't make any difference though].. The second type is a later style that uses the rubber ball.. The housings for the 2 are different and the rubber ball is only supposed to fit the later type [from what I know, I've never used one],, but,, anything can be forced to fit I suppose..

[oldmanandakid]

To conqueror our wobble we did everyone of your steps except we replaced the rubber ball with a washer and we also had the spindles/king pins machined, installed new thrust bearings, replaced the stock pitman with the new shorter arm and replaced the front spring. I wish I could tell you which step stopped the wobble but I can't. It was a process of addressing every problem we saw as the work progressed before the car ever went back on the road. That old front end wasn't just dangerous, it was a death trap, on many levels. Keep us posted on your progress.

[Lawrie]

I had the woble in my A ,it got worse and finally got so bad I was scared to use the brakes.
Tried all the above,none got rid off it completely,
NEW tyres and tubes DID.
Lawrie

[petew]

Improper tire pressure can cause the death wobble, at least it did on my car.

[jr-41ford]

Sounds very much like "bump steer" I had on my 1941 Ford. The entire front end, drop axle, spindles, etc were brand new. Everytime I would go over a bump, railroad tracks, man hole cover, etc, it would cause the front end to shimmy.

After my friend that owns a front end alignment shop checked it, told me I needed to put a panhard bar on the front. I ordered a panhard bar from Speedway Motors, installed it and the "bump steer" went away.

I've never seen a panhard bar on or heard of anyone putting one on a Model A, has anyone installed one on a Model A?

[Franchise_24]

What do people think of the steering stabilizers?

[Steve Wastler]

A steering stabilizer in my opinion is a band aid. Why hide a problem, something isn't right somewhere, and needs fixed.

[jjcom]

I was starting to consider a steering stabilizer on my A...then I went over the front end one last time trying to find something wrong. Then I found my pitman arm was just slightly loose. A quick tightening of the nut and everything was back to normal. The amount of movement was quite small, but apparently was just enough to cause a problem. From that, I would have to agree that a stabilizer would be just a band aid and not the real fix to the issue.

[RichPA]

I agree with Jim,after dealing with this issue many times on modern trucks it is almost always too much caster.The problem is magnified by loose/worn parts and replacing those parts although needed only puts a patch on it for a while.

[Dick Deegan]

Snyder's sell a panhard bar for the front and rear. I had the "death wobble" on my 30 coupe and decided to try a panhard bar on the front. I had replaced virtually everything else that affected the steering of the car. The front panhard bar has a plate that is fixed under the driver's side shock absorber and the other end is on the passenger side shackle. The two are joined together with an adjustable length bar. The plate under the shock is very flimsy, but Snyders assured me that it would work.

I installed the bar and the "death wobble" was the same as before.

I eventually cured the problem by addressing the ball on the wishbone. The ball is supposed to be 1.5". Mine varied between 1.31 and 1.35". I finally shimmed the ball with the washers that are sold by the vendors and ensured that there was no back to front movement of the ball when the wheels were turned. That finally solved the problem, but I still need to bring the ball back to 1.5" and discontinue the use of the shims.

Dick

[pat in Santa Cruz]

one more area to check in addition to the radius ball size are the steering box nuts. If the box is loose, the death wobble is sure to happen. Excess play in the worm/sector will do it too. Are the spring perch nuts tight?

[sturgis 39]

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King pins are the major cause of the death wobble. Do not forget about the string line test. The line from the king pins to the center of the rear end should go over the top of the tie rod end. This is the Ackerman theory. This will show you if you have something bent.

Charlie Yapp had an article about this in his Secretes of Speed Magazine. He has a web site and he might send you an e-mail copy.

Hot rod builders like to place the tie rod in front of the axle and then they like to complain about how poorly the car steers. They install steering stabilizers but the car still does not steer correctly. They never heard of the Ackerman theory and the car will bump steer and have the death wobble if this theory is not followed.

You try to explain the problem to hot rodders and they give you a dumb look and usually say that they have seen hunderds of cars with the same set up they have and I reply they probably all steer just as bad as yours.

My model had the same embarrassing problem and I called Burt's in Denver.
Steve or Phil said to screw the tie rod ends and drag link ends is as tite as they will go. I was screwing them in all the way and then backing them out a half a turn or so for the cotter key. I did like Burt recommended and the problem went away.


Be sure to tells all what fixed the problem.

[Fordors]

Poor Ackerman will never be the cause of bump steer, but it will cause the "inside" tire on a tight turn to scuff around the corner. Ackerman needs to be correct because the tires turn on different radii going around a corner. Death wobble and bump steer are two different things, loose components and/or poor alignment can cause wobble, while bump steer is caused by the drag link and wishbone (or radius rods as on hot rod) swinging in different arcs. If a longer pitman arm is installed and the wishbone mount remains the same you may encounter bump steer.

[marty in Ohio]

I had the "death wobble" too. I put on the steering stabilizer from Snyders and have never had another wobble since. I'm sold on it.

[Patrick L.]

After 29 posts and a heck of a lot of work the poor guys car still isn't fixed.. That shouldn't be.. This isn't [or shouldn't be] hard to find or fix.. If everything is tight and adjusted correctly the car should drive as intended.. Something is being missed.. It appears a fresh set of eyes and hands need to wander around that monster.. I'm beginning to wonder if there really is a problem.. A 'man-hole' was mentioned; after running over it does the vehicle really go into ' death-wobble/shimmy' mode or does the bump just cause a hard jar of the steering wheel ?? If someone thinks that caster is a concern then just put the ' spacer washer' under the ball which helps reduce caster a bit..

[C26Pinelake]

I put on a shortened Pitman arm and a steering stabilizer. It now works wonderful and not a shake, wobble or shimmy since installed 2 years ago 1
Hope it helps !
Wayne

[Glenn C.]

Providing the ball is symetrical, or the wear can be taken up with a dished washer that is available from the various parts suppliers......you may find that the through bolt holes in the bottom of the clutch housing have become excessively worn. You may be able to machine a couple of steel bushings that will slide into the holes in the clutch housing, but will also slide over the cap bolts that hold the ball cover.

Have someone move the steering wheel back and forth, while you observe what is going on underneath.

[1930pu]

I had the same problem on my coupe, the spring perch bolts were worn very little but I guess that is all it takes

[leadpot]

Had the same problem. For other reasons I put on new tires, the old ones were 16 years old & somewhat stiff. Haven't had one shimmy since, that was 2200 miles ago.

[tdlmomowers]

I have been trying to help the original poster with his wobble problem. We have done all the things that he has mentioned. When the car goes into its death wobble, all the steering linkage moves an equal amount, both wheels wobble back and forth and the linkage moves clear back through the pitman arm. When it wobbles, the steering wheel does not seem to shake as violently as the rest of the steering linkage. He now has a gentleman helping him that knows Model As alot better than I do. They seem to be making some headway at correcting the problem a little at a time. There isn't much left but the steering gear box.

[sturgis 39]

Originally Posted by Fordors

Poor Ackerman will never be the cause of bump steer, but it will cause the "inside" tire on a tight turn to scuff around the corner. Ackerman needs to be correct because the tires turn on different radii going around a corner. Death wobble and bump steer are two different things, loose components and/or poor alignment can cause wobble, while bump steer is caused by the drag link and wishbone (or radius rods as on hot rod) swinging in different arcs. If a longer pitman arm is installed and the wishbone mount remains the same you may encounter bump steer.

I disagree- .

[1931 flamingo]

tdlmomowers: I would think that at this stage of repair/fixes the box would be the logical culprit. JMO
Paul in CT

[Franchise_24]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

After 29 posts and a heck of a lot of work the poor guys car still isn't fixed.. That shouldn't be.. This isn't [or shouldn't be] hard to find or fix.. If everything is tight and adjusted correctly the car should drive as intended.. Something is being missed.. It appears a fresh set of eyes and hands need to wander around that monster.. I'm beginning to wonder if there really is a problem.. A 'man-hole' was mentioned; after running over it does the vehicle really go into ' death-wobble/shimmy' mode or does the bump just cause a hard jar of the steering wheel ?? If someone thinks that caster is a concern then just put the ' spacer washer' under the ball which helps reduce caster a bit..

Why would you ask if there really is a problem? Of course there is or I wouldn't be posting here. Anyways Thursday we pulled both king pins and put everything back together. I ended up tightening the drag link a couple more turns. The car went out today and drove over every man hole cover or bump I could find and I'm proud to say it did not wobble or shake or anything. I also tightened up the bolt that holds the pit man arm on as well and that took some play away. So who knows if it's truly fixed but I did a lot of driving and it was so smooth. So maybe it was a combination of everything, but hopefully I am in good shape now. Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions, I think I did them all. Lol. Too bad it's October and the driving season is about over.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by tdlmomowers

I have been trying to help the original poster with his wobble problem. We have done all the things that he has mentioned. When the car goes into its death wobble, all the steering linkage moves an equal amount, both wheels wobble back and forth and the linkage moves clear back through the pitman arm. When it wobbles, the steering wheel does not seem to shake as violently as the rest of the steering linkage. He now has a gentleman helping him that knows Model As alot better than I do. They seem to be making some headway at correcting the problem a little at a time. There isn't much left but the steering gear box.

Originally Posted by Franchise_24

Why would you ask if there really is a problem? Of course there is or I wouldn't be posting here. Anyways Thursday we pulled both king pins and put everything back together. I ended up tightening the drag link a couple more turns. The car went out today and drove over every man hole cover or bump I could find and I'm proud to say it did not wobble or shake or anything. I also tightened up the bolt that holds the pit man arm on as well and that took some play away. So who knows if it's truly fixed but I did a lot of driving and it was so smooth. So maybe it was a combination of everything, but hopefully I am in good shape now. Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions, I think I did them all. Lol. Too bad it's October and the driving season is about over.

i am confused wasnt shaking down the frt end , adjusting the alignment and cking for any slop at the pitman arm to box suggested in the first death wobble thread months ago??

[Franchise_24]

Yes it was and it was done and redone As well as numerous other things. So who knows what combination did the trick.

[denis4x4]

Read 40 posts and nothing was mentioned about wheels. Had the same problem and sent the front wheels to wheel works in Denver. Tech said they were out of round. Wheels were fixed and no more death wobble.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Read 40 posts and nothing was mentioned about wheels. Had the same problem and sent the front wheels to wheel works in Denver. Tech said they were out of round. Wheels were fixed and no more death wobble.

Did you read the thread from months ago? Ck out #80

https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread...ht=Franchise24

[Geo. H]

I have panhard bars front and back on my 31 roadster. I'm a believer.

[Patrick L.]

OK, good, glad to see its probably fixed.. I asked what I did because of all the suggestions and all the work that was performed.. Its nice to hear its fixed now,, but,, it could have probably been done a lot sooner if the early suggestions had been followed.. Thats all I'm trying to say,, I'm not trying be an a^#$^%$^..

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by fordgarage

Install the Tie rod link hardware properly.
Install the drag link hardware properly, and the drag link in the correct F/R position.
Set the toe in properly.

I agree with these being the first or main cause of the "death wobble". My temporary front end is so worn that if I jack up the front axle I can grab the tires at the tops and move them in and out about 2", but I've never had a hint of the shakes, or "death wobble". After I reassemble my original front end and reinstall it, the car should steer itself. LOL

[todd3131]

glad to hear you got it fixed.
todd

[wrecker king]

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I had this happen on my Model AA truck yesterday. The truck had been sitting for awhile. The front brakes had not fully released, after several stops from 10 miles per hour, the brakes "loosened up" and the probelm went away. Also it took a couple of miles for the flat spots to even out on the tire. The tires are new and the air presuure is at 35 psi.

John G

[barkleydave]

During my last tour and a couple of weeks earlier I noticed an occasional wobble. It would happen like others at slow speeds often after hitting a small pothole while turning etc.
At higher speeds it went away. I had adjusted the steering earlier and removed some of the play but still too much.

I had completed front brakes conversion to Cast Iron. During the tour I noticed end play in both front wheels.

1. Bearings needed to be one notch on castle nut tighter. (No more end play and still free wheels)

2. While I thought the Pitman Arm was tight IT WAS NOT!
I took an awl and scribed a mark across the face of the harm and pivot. I then could move steering with wheel off and moved slightly. The marks moved and did not line up! Hardly any movement but enough where I was able to tighten the castle nut 2 notches!

3. Turned in the end caps on drag link 1/2 turn.

Result: Less than 2 " play in steering wheel and NO more wobble.

Next I will double check toe in

LIKE ALL THE OTHER POSTS GO TO BEARINGS AND CHECK THAT PITMAN ARM !

[Barry B./ Ma.]

We put a stabilizer on a lady's Model A and it worked perfectly. I did notice a little more effort turning into a curve but it did certainly eliminate the wobble. My Volkswagens came with a stabilizer and when it wore down the wobble would show up so there must be something to it.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Remember, SHIMMY or DEATH WOBBLE, is almost always caused by SLACK in the STEERING GEARBOX or the LINKAGES!!
Bill W.

[MikeK]

WOW! This is an old thread. (9/28/12)

The question with "death wobble" is do you want to fix the symptom or do you want to fix the root problem? Ever wonder why one Model A with everything worn and loose in the front end does not wobble, yet another A with one little thing slightly loose shimmys like crazy?

To fix the symptom just make sure everything in the front end is a tight as possible. Then keep your fingers crossed. You are only holding tight a wheel that wants to shimmy.

To fix the actual problem so the wheels do not want to shimmy in the first place there is really no mystery. If it shimmys something is usually BENT affecting caster. Tightening everything up to new spec certainly improves steering and tracking but does not address geometry errors that induce resonance like shimmy. If you have a bent axle, bent forgings at either end of the wishbone, engine misalignment (the wishbone bolts to the fly cover casting at the back) or frame twist and bend you do not have the factory spec 2 degrees caster. Simple visual inspection likely will not reveal a bend of only a degree or two. You need to carefully measure.

Think of a shopping cart. When the front wheels get slightly bent back from slamming curbs and parking lot divots, you get a cart with a front wheel that goes into the dreaded "death wobble".

80 years of pounding pot holes and RR tracks bends both the axle, shackles, and wishbone in the negative direction. Reducing caster just one degree from the factory sped 2 degrees will make wheels want to shimmy.

There is a lot of info out there about how to straighten an A axle, but not much about the wishbone. The front forgings that hold the kingpin actually bend rather easily compared to the axle. Perhaps someone has the Ford print for the wishbone and can throw in a few angles and dimensions?

[HoarseWhisperer]

Yep! My own "death wobble" was incorrect caster from one of the "stoopid" rubber radius ball covers.

[hale1776]

Has anyone else had the death wobble, but only in the right tire.... makes no sense.

[rocket1]

cater and camber might be off,bent axle,spindle,frame etc.

[Terry, NJ]

Mike, I know so little about front end geometry, this explains a lot. Next, could you give us the terms,explanations, and numbers. I hope I'm not asking too much, but I don't know where to get this info. Thanks for posting this.
Terry

Originally Posted by MikeK

WOW! This is an old thread. (9/28/12)

The question with "death wobble" is do you want to fix the symptom or do you want to fix the root problem? Ever wonder why one Model A with everything worn and loose in the front end does not wobble, yet another A with one little thing slightly loose shimmys like crazy?

To fix the symptom just make sure everything in the front end is a tight as possible. Then keep your fingers crossed. You are only holding tight a wheel that wants to shimmy.

To fix the actual problem so the wheels do not want to shimmy in the first place there is really no mystery. If it shimmys something is usually BENT affecting caster. Tightening everything up to new spec certainly improves steering and tracking but does not address geometry errors that induce resonance like shimmy. If you have a bent axle, bent forgings at either end of the wishbone, engine misalignment (the wishbone bolts to the fly cover casting at the back) or frame twist and bend you do not have the factory spec 2 degrees caster. Simple visual inspection likely will not reveal a bend of only a degree or two. You need to carefully measure.

Think of a shopping cart. When the front wheels get slightly bent back from slamming curbs and parking lot divots, you get a cart with a front wheel that goes into the dreaded "death wobble".

80 years of pounding pot holes and RR tracks bends both the axle, shackles, and wishbone in the negative direction. Reducing caster just one degree from the factory sped 2 degrees will make wheels want to shimmy.

There is a lot of info out there about how to straighten an A axle, but not much about the wishbone. The front forgings that hold the kingpin actually bend rather easily compared to the axle. Perhaps someone has the Ford print for the wishbone and can throw in a few angles and dimensions?

[Tinbasher]

I would take the car to a good Wheel alignment shop and get them to check the Caster. This what usually causes this problem. It could be something like a worn radius ball or a bent axle. Check and take the spec's with you. Caster is usually between 3 and 6 Degrees.
Ask the shop if they have the tools to bend the axle to get the Caster. Truck shops and Good Alignment shops will have these tools. Like Denis4x4 said check the wheels for true.

John Poole

[ryanheacox]

Gotta say, I've never hear Model A guys refer to it as the "death wobble". I thought it was just a Jeep thing haha

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by hale1776

Has anyone else had the death wobble, but only in the right tire.... makes no sense.

Yes, I was following one of the cars in our club and noticed that only one wheel went into the death wobble. I need to check back with the owner to see if he found anything yet.

[hale1776]

Just put an ez-steer Teflon coated bronze bushing set in drag link and tie rod, tightened everything up tight...one original spring was broken......called local alignment shop to get toe in set and he told me his computer screen wouldn't even turn on until he entered year, make and model..so still looking. Going to set toe in between 1/16th and 1/8th per service bulletin. I also swapped ends on drag link for same reason. Could have made a three stooges short of my son and I trying to get a new cartridge into a modern grease gun, much swearing, grease, and paper towels, got gease to come out everywhere except the end of hose.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by hale1776

Just put an ez-steer Teflon coated bronze bushing set in drag link and tie rod, tightened everything up tight...one original spring was broken......called local alignment shop to get toe in set and he told me his computer screen wouldn't even turn on until he entered year, make and model..so still looking. Going to set toe in between 1/16th and 1/8th per service bulletin. I also swapped ends on drag link for same reason. Could have made a three stooges short of my son and I trying to get a new cartridge into a modern grease gun, much swearing, grease, and paper towels, got gease to come out everywhere except the end of hose.

he can enter any car into the machine then set the toe to specs for the A..
if they dont know how to bypass that section then run

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Just wondering, some "MODERN" vehicles have STEERING STABILIZERS! Did NOT the manufacturer design stuff correctly & added a HUGE "BANDAID"????????????????????????????????????????? ?????-----------------------??????
Bill W.

[daveymc29]

Personally I'd rather fix the problem than put the stabilizer on. Watch the tie rod on some car with the stabilizer on it as the wheels are turned from lock to lock while on the ground, even on dirt. The tie rod will bend very noticeably, I'll wager. I haven't seen many but they all that I watched in operation bent the tie rod. Doing that can't be good for it. I had a truck I bought with the stabilizer and a hotrod type connection to the left front backing plate. On a trip home from Portland to the Bay Area the hotrod piece worked its way partially through the backing plate, causing a terrifying bit of the death wobble several times in the last few miles to my home, late in the night or I wouldn't have dared to drive it if there had been much other traffic.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by daveymc29

Personally I'd rather fix the problem than put the stabilizer on. Watch the tie rod on some car with the stabilizer on it as the wheels are turned from lock to lock while on the ground, even on dirt. The tie rod will bend very noticeably, I'll wager. I haven't seen many but they all that I watched in operation bent the tie rod. Doing that can't be good for it. I had a truck I bought with the stabilizer and a hotrod type connection to the left front backing plate. On a trip home from Portland to the Bay Area the hotrod piece worked its way partially through the backing plate, causing a terrifying bit of the death wobble several times in the last few miles to my home, late in the night or I wouldn't have dared to drive it if there had been much other traffic.

Davey,
I've seen a lots of Hot Rod "ENGINEERING"??? that would make your Hanes Briefs SHRINK, by 3 SIZES
Bill W.

[hale1776]

Ok I had death wobble only on right front, I rebuilt tie rods and drag link tightened everything and today I set toe in ... good news my death wobble is now on both wheels so that is a relief. Dropped radius ball on wishbone and found a rubber ball missing 40 % chewed off, I checked with my dog who assured me it wasn't her. Put a fender washer in their but without the rubber still way to much room for wobble. Ordered original radius cap set from Mac's and magic washer if needed, steers mush easier now there is just that fear of braking thing left. This thread has been very helpful big thank you to all the old farts who still post.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by hale1776

Ok I had death wobble only on right front, I rebuilt tie rods and drag link tightened everything and today I set toe in ... good news my death wobble is now on both wheels so that is a relief. Dropped radius ball on wishbone and found a rubber ball missing 40 % chewed off, I checked with my dog who assured me it wasn't her. Put a fender washer in their but without the rubber still way to much room for wobble. Ordered original radius cap set from Mac's and magic washer if needed, steers mush easier now there is just that fear of braking thing left. This thread has been very helpful big thank you to all the old farts who still post.

And DON'T forget thet my DOG, Buster T. posts also. He jist asked if you wuld PLEASE post a PIC uf Yo' Dog
Bill W.

[hale1776]

SOS Update: New radius ball kit from Mac's arrive that include new everything and original size cups as per Ford design. Remove everything drop wishbone, pull retaining pin and remove old bolts....wipe everything clean and start install new bolts require two finger lift to get them inside hole then drop down into bolt holes first one goes in fine, second one do to angle becomes more problematic, using bent nose needle nose pliers to hold it seems like perfect tool to drop in #2, my son is doing it and he goes " I lost it" we both try feeling around but its gone no where to be found...Ballbuster alert, I'm like now I have to pull engine or rear end, disconnected flywheel housing to find it. Took wind completely out of my sails...I was 5 minutes from solving problem, now bummed, anyone have any ideas?

[Brentwood Bob]

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Try a magnet. Should not have to do any further dissassembly. Take a time out, have a beer, and relax. Remember this is a hobby, not a brain operation.
Be thankful your son is on the point.
Bob

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Pull the engine Hale, it's easier and I know cause it happened to me. When the engine lifts up and away slightly you can reach in and get the bolt, took me under an hour.
Get the new bolts in before you bolt up the housing.

[hale1776]

Bob will try magnate first. Barry I have removed engine many times but always pulled headlight bar and radiator out first did will engine move far enough forward without doing this?

[Brentwood Bob]

probably removing the fan and waterpump would give you enough room after loosening the headlight bar and the radiator leaned forward.
Hope the fishing goes better.
Bob

[Tom Wesenberg]

I did the same thing on my 29 Tudor when I first bought it. I used a magnet and fished it back out. If I remember right, I might have even dropped it a second time. I then ran a couple feet of thread through the cotter pin hole in the bolt. This made the job much easier, and if it dropped, it was easy to retrieve.

[hale1776]

using a bent coat hanger and my finger I have searched whole area around where cup goes without any luck, thought if I bounced the car a little the bolt may come out of hiding. I put safety wire through cotter pin hole of one old bolts and using that as Tom suggested pulled bolt into position, replaced top and bottom cups, bushings, springs, new nuts and cotter pins. Then started her up no clunks.... drove around block, clutch works no noise or clue that anything is loose. Its almost 2:00 AM I have driven it far enough and braked hard enough to say my death wobble is gone. Tomorrow I will drop ball again and see if bolt can be found. I have strong disc magnets but you can not drill a hole in one besides the magnate what is used for fishing?

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Originally Posted by hale1776

Bob will try magnate first. Barry I have removed engine many times but always pulled headlight bar and radiator out first did will engine move far enough forward without doing this?

I think I had the radiator and the hood,light bar off when I lifted out the engine but all that doesn't take much time, I think much better than pulling back the rear end.

[barkleydave]

Could someone post a picture of what they are talking about. Mine is fine but unclear what the bolt falls into? Having a senior moment ..

[mrraford]

Steering stabilizers are a waste of money.

I saw a new cause of DW recently. The owner of a car had been replacing the internals of his tie rod ends and did not get the Spindle Arm Nut firmly secured. Actually he had used the wrong nut so it would not properly tighten. He replaced that and properly tightened the DW went away.

[Terry, NJ]

You haven't experienced The Death Wobble yet? Kiss the ground in joy! You'll know it when you get it! And there area myriad of causes, from tire inflation to loose front end and everything in between. Some of them quite expensive, like anew steering box.
Terry

Originally Posted by barkleydave

Could someone post a picture of what they are talking about. Mine is fine but unclear what the bolt falls into? Having a senior moment ..

[Brentwood Bob]

Hale1776:
Try a coat hanger with a hook on the end to fish for the bolt. When you feel something apply the magnet to the wire. Probably past the sweep of your finger.
That recess in the bell housing is not that big.
Bob

[hale1776]

If you do a search of Ford Model A bell housing for sale on eBay you will find pictures of the inside.... there is a half inch high ridge between hole where radius cup goes and the engine as my lost bolt is not in the immediate vicinity of the hole it had to have dropped over that ridge..once over that ridge its a 45 degree down slope to bottom of bell housing where it bolts to engine...that is where my lost bolt is laying sideways. Same as throwing a bolt in a bucket shake few times then tilt bucket 45 degrees now you know exactly where the bolt is without looking. Wondering now if I can get it through inspection plate on top of bell housing. I JP welded a magnate to a coat hanger have to wait 24 hours to harden. I have heard of all manner of old parts being found in that spot years later when engine was pulled.

[HoarseWhisperer]

Telescoping Magnet?

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Pull the starter and epoxy a 1/4" round magnet to a flex rod (got mine at harbor freight ) you can fish it out pretty easy. Now you have a homemade bendex bolt removal tool as well

[hale1776]

Update I tried the lazy method today...inspection plate under floor board. Magnate epoxied to coat hanger, could I get magnate to bottom of housing? yes.. could I retrieve bolt? No.
I like starter idea that sounds much easier than pulling engine.

[hale1776]

Pulled starter as suggested and was able to retrieve bolt with magnate epoxied on end of coat hanger. I now have original style radius ball and socket no washer, my ball appeared to show very little if any wear. Death wobble is gone. Car steers better than ever. Stepping away from car very slowly before the "might as wells" bite me again. Thanks to all.

[HoarseWhisperer]

Originally Posted by hale1776

Pulled starter as suggested and was able to retrieve bolt with magnate epoxied on end of coat hanger. I now have original style radius ball and socket no washer, my ball appeared to show very little if any wear. Death wobble is gone. Car steers better than ever. Stepping away from car very slowly before the "might as wells" bite me again. Thanks to all.

I just LOVE success stories!

[boo]

i had a 34 ford in 1957 that had the wobles and i just drove it with the right tire off the road on the sholder and the shimmy stopped SIMPLE