H&H engine re-builders

[Ed Saniewski]

Anyone have anything to report on the performance of an H&H engine with insert bearings? I am thinking of getting one of there touring short blocks.

[1931 flamingo]

Try doing a search as H&H has been subject of previous discussions.
Paul in CT

[Logan]

From the stories I've been told, they tend to get a little sloppy on block repairs. But if you send them a block you know is in perfect condition, then you will be happy with the end result. Again this is what I've been told, I've never bought anything from them before so I dont have any personal experience. Maybe some others with chime in.

[zzlegend]

Speaking of blocks. I know a guy that gave them his flathead V8 to rebuild.
Got it back,,,,,,,,,overheated and was not the same block he gave them. Plus he claims they exchanged a couple of other parts on his motor. This was his experience. Just passing along.

[John LaVoy]

We like Schwalms in PA and Antique Engine in IL. Both much closer to you than H&H

[V4F]

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there is better !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[no6]

I have used Schwalms close to Lancaster Pa. and was extremely happy alltho they did not do insert brgs just poured brgs for me. They will be at Hershey.

[AL in NY]

Schwalms does do inserts. They did my counter-balanced crankshaft and drilled it for full pressure. Excellent people to work with.

[CarlG]

I wasn't going to chime in until I read some of the posts above, but having said that, my engine was rebuilt by them (albeit 20 years ago and before I bought it) but only has 2500 miles on it since it was done. Well, I'm into the engine for "MAJOR" work now for the 3rd time in the last 2 years (and 1500 miles). 1=Rod, 2=Valve, 3=Main bearings, rear seal, timing gear, tappets, crank journal (which probably was the cause of #1). Just waiting for the "next" shoe to drop!

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Ed Saniewski

Anyone have anything to report on the performance of an H&H engine with insert bearings? I am thinking of getting one of there touring short blocks.

well you got your answer i would also go to schwalms

[partridgekelley]

I have two of H&H's engines in my model A's. The oldest has been a problem=
noines , leaks , lots of investment. The second one has been no problems , has maybe 3000 miles on it , has been in my last two cars. Both have plenty of power , which I guess is their thing. Have heard lots of pros and cons on their products. They have been good about my engine problems - so long as I keep throwing $ into the engine. Every time I have them work on an engine it cost major $ in shipping to and from - on me. I plan on running the noisey engine till it blows - than find out why. Just my opinion.

[James Rogers]

Better keep your money on the east coast.

[sphanna]

I have been very pleased with AER in Skokie, IL Inserts weighted and bal crank, lightened flywheel 6:1 head. Very smooth runner.

[Art Bjornestad]

There is Kelly in Texas

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Art Bjornestad

There is Kelly in Texas

He's the best of the best. But you have to pay for the best.

[Chris Haynes]

I am impatiently waiting for Terry Burtz to bring his brand new blocks to market. Five main bearings, counterbalanced pressurized crank, H beam rods, with small block Chevrolet rod and main bearing inserts.
Around here H&H is known as Hatchet & Hammer. What good is a warranty if you have to keep using it.

[sturgis 39]

This is the first time I have heard anything bad about H and H. I have always heard positive feed back about their work. I have never used them.

I use Gaffery Babbit. He is about ten miles away from me. He does all kinds of engines including large tractor and stationary engines. Everybody has had good luck with Rod. Last time I was at his shop he was doing some kind of v12 engine that was going out of the country.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by sturgis 39

This is the first time I have heard anything bad about H and H. I have always heard positive feed back about their work. I have never used them.

You don't live in California!

[Milton]

H&H no way! When Terry Burtz gets the block casting down pat it will be a whole new world for Model A owners. Like Chris Haines above... waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting....

[sturgis 39]

Bert's Model "A" store sells insert engines for around $3500. I have not bought one and do not know if they do the work or have a supplier. I am not sure about the price. I thought my next engine would be an insert.

[Ed Saniewski]

Well, thanks to all for posting, and the many P.M.'s I got. I tried searching past posts about H&H but found none, I am glad I asked. Three of our NJ club members have gotten rebuilds from Schwalms and had problems, one had to pull the engine and send it back. I will look around some more, thanks again, Ed Saniewski

[ba49]

Has anyone gotten one of the rebuilt engines fron Snyder's? Just wondered how they are? I will be in the market soon. Is there anyone in Ohio that does quality rebuilding?

[sturgis 39]

Originally Posted by Ed Saniewski

Well, thanks to all for posting, and the many P.M.'s I got. I tried searching past posts about H&H but found none, I am glad I asked. Three of our NJ club members have gotten rebuilds from Schwalms and had problems, one had to pull the engine and send it back. I will look around some more, thanks again, Ed Saniewski

I that a Pete and Paul airplane in you avatar?

[Loyd Nix]

I would argue that a babbited engine with a balanced crank and lightened flywheel would hold up just fine. Maybe the cost ($1000) of the crank would nearly offset the work required for inserts.

[Ed Northrop]

I have heard J&M Machine in MA is one of the best in model A and T engines. They rebuild all brands of antique engines.

[Kevin - Illinois]

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Before going to Snyders I'd recommend Rich Falluca at Antique Engine Rebuilding in Skokie, Illinois. You will be very happy with his work!

http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com/

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Ed Saniewski

Well, thanks to all for posting, and the many P.M.'s I got. I tried searching past posts about H&H but found none, I am glad I asked. Three of our NJ club members have gotten rebuilds from Schwalms and had problems, one had to pull the engine and send it back. I will look around some more, thanks again, Ed Saniewski

curious to know what kind of problems your club members had with their motors from schwalms.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by sturgis 39

Bert's Model "A" store sells insert engines for around $3500. I have not bought one and do not know if they do the work or have a supplier. I am not sure about the price. I thought my next engine would be an insert.

I heard they were an H&H dealer... But that's just what I heard.

[Rowdy]

Originally Posted by Logan

I heard they were an H&H dealer... But that's just what I heard.

Last I knew they had their own engine builder in house. It has been awhile since my last visit though. Rod

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Rowdy

Last I knew they had their own engine builder in house. It has been awhile since my last visit though. Rod

That would make sense. I had just heard they were a dealer from someone when I was at the high country tour in 2009.

[denis4x4]

Originally Posted by sturgis 39
"Bert's Model "A" store sells insert engines for around $3500. I have not bought one and do not know if they do the work or have a supplier. I am not sure about the price. I thought my next engine would be an insert."

I heard they were an H&H dealer... But that's just what I heard.


Here's a B motor with babett and an original CRAGAR head built by Bert's Model A in Denver. They have a complete machine shop on the premises and very knowledgable people building engines. The engine is painted Ford blue at my request. Not as fast as a red engine, but certainly more performance than a green one!

[John LaVoy]

Terry is getting closer! I spoke with him the other day and they have him changing a couple of the molds but he thinks this may be the solution.

[John LaVoy]

I have a Schwalms engine in the sedan with about 20,000 miles on it. No problems, no complaints.

[Cajun]

I have seen both pro and con on H&H. I have a friend that had an H&H he used in Great Race rallies. He pushed the engine to it's limits. I was amazed that it stayed together. I had resolved that if I ever replaced my engine, I would go with H&H.

He had H&H rebuild the engine. It did not make it through this year's race. They are now off my list.

It is my opinion that Ron Kelley and Dennis Piranio in the Dallas area are the best. I am prone to use Dennis but both are very good.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Cajun

I have seen both pro and con on H&H. I have a friend that had an H&H he used in Great Race rallies. He pushed the engine to it's limits. I was amazed that it stayed together. I had resolved that if I ever replaced my engine, I would go with H&H.

He had H&H rebuild the engine. It did not make it through this year's race. They are now off my list.

It is my opinion that Ron Kelley and Dennis Piranio in the Dallas area are the best. I am prone to use Dennis but both are very good.

I've seen to many Piranio engines come apart to even consider using him. I've seen more snapped cranks, and busted babbit come out of that shop than anywhere else. Jmho. He told a friend of mine "10,000 miles was a lot of miles to be putting on a babbit motor". This was after the friend of mine had already had 2 or 3 busted babbit problems in about 15000 miles on a Piranio motor.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Cajun

...
It is my opinion that Ron Kelley ... in the Dallas area (is) the best...

This is what I've heard as well.

[Cajun]

I guess we all have different experiences. So far my engine rebuilt by Piranio is doing very well. I am running inserts etc. We use the car in Great Race and VCRA events and put 5000+/- miles a year on the car/engine. We run the engine hard using a 3500 RPM red line on all shifts (this is done to remain consistent in acceleration time in rallies)

[Jerry Parr WI]

Originally Posted by Kevin - Illinois

Before going to Snyders I'd recommend Rich Falluca at Antique Engine Rebuilding in Skokie, Illinois. You will be very happy with his work!

http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com/

Seems like no one gets a clean bill of health. Rich did three engines for me. First one had a severely twisted rod and had to be completely redone. No charge but my labor and travel. Second has had two valve seats come out. Repaired myself. Third one still on the floor not used yet. These were done when he still did babbitt.

[Russ/40]

Not my experience, but have an acquaintance who went to H&H and had a knock from day one, and never got any resolution from them. Problems happen, but you expect a fix from a reputable builder. He went the insert route with them.

[Jordan]

I will be honest and say I am running an inserted engine from Rich in Illinois, and I had 2 problems (both piston related) on two separate occasions. I had to pull the engine both times, and had to send it back. Both times, rich payed for shipping & repairs even tho the motor was OUT OF WARRANTY. That is the sign of a good business person. If I were to need another engine, I would go back to him. If you want a motor that will outlive you, and that will be extremely reliable, Ron Kelley in Royce City, TX is an excellent option. He is more pricey than the other options, but he knows what he is doing and builds an excellent engine. I have never heard of anyone having a problem with his work.

[d.j. moordigian]

I run a one man engine shop and haven't had a failure in a long time. I do more than
what the customer pays for, I don't want a failure. Checking and looking at things
that most people don't look at. If I had my own line bore machine I'd be doing my
own bottom ends.

If you are looking for an engine shop, I would be looking at a shop with the least
number of employees...make sense?

[Cool Hand Lurker]

It sounds like all of the builders do good work and have problems. Stuff happens. So don't be too sure about "new" engines either, somebody has to put them together and it would be a miracle if there aren't a lot of problems to sort out in the first few years of production.
Find a builder who will give you names of satisfied customers and check out the shop if possible. And follow the progress of the rebuild as much as you can. If "excuses" start to crop up then it is time to go check out the build.

[BarracudaBoy]

H&H claim to have the fastest Model A engine and so do these guys http://www.modelaparts.net.

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by Milton

H&H no way! When Terry Burtz gets the block casting down pat it will be a whole new world for Model A owners. Like Chris Haines above... waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting....

Not in this lifetime!
Bill

[gibby]

Originally Posted by Logan

From the stories I've been told, they tend to get a little sloppy on block repairs. But if you send them a block you know is in perfect condition, then you will be happy with the end result. Again this is what I've been told, I've never bought anything from them before so I dont have any personal experience. Maybe some others with chime in.

I have an H&H that i purchased from them in 2010. I'm just now getting ready to install it in my Vicky, you guys are starting to scare me. One thing that i did notice was the very poor quality weld repair they did on the block. Me being a welder by trade, i just figured i was being to picky. I never did call them about it and i'm sure nothing would have been done about it anyway. To their credit, Max jr did not charge me anything for not giving him a core.

[Ed Saniewski]

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Sturgis, yes that is a Pietenpol, I had the opportunity to talk with the owner/pilot out at the National meet this year. one of the fellows in our club had problems getting the engine to start and found out after removing the engine and sending it back, that the timing gear was off set. When it came back there was still a problem, and Schwalms sent someone to his house to get it right. The other fellow has 600 miles on the engine and had to turn back from the New England meet because of a noise that developed.

[SteveB31]

We at Bert's do build our own engines. We do not repair cracks in blocks, as we will only use crack free blocks. We only do inserts, using Rich Falukas bearings and rods. We only chose to build our own engines because we used to sell others engines and were not happy with their results. Our short blocks are $3150 exchange and we usually have them in stock. We have built 60 of them in the last 2 years, and have yet to have an issue that we are aware of. We do not make a living just building engines, so we build one every two weeks and try to build them well, and we do them in house. ANY engine builder will eventually have a problem with an engine, we have just been lucky and are trying to make sure we do them right the first time. Any questions, just give us a call.

Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center
Since 1980
800-321-1931

[iceburg29]

I bought a touring short block 3 years ago from h&h. It had a small rear main oil leak. Called h&h they payed for shipping and fixed it. Sent it back in less then a week. I Was very happy doing buisness with h&h the engine runs and performs great.

[sturgis 39]

Originally Posted by SteveB31

We at Bert's do build our own engines. We do not repair cracks in blocks, as we will only use crack free blocks. We only do inserts, using Rich Falukas bearings and rods. We only chose to build our own engines because we used to sell others engines and were not happy with their results. Our short blocks are $3150 exchange and we usually have them in stock. We have built 60 of them in the last 2 years, and have yet to have an issue that we are aware of. We do not make a living just building engines, so we build one every two weeks and try to build them well, and we do them in house. ANY engine builder will eventually have a problem with an engine, we have just been lucky and are trying to make sure we do them right the first time. Any questions, just give us a call.

Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center
Since 1980
800-321-1931

That seems like a good price. I think I had about $3600 in my last rebuilt babbit engine and that was ten years ago. It took a long time to get the engine done. That is cool that you have some on the shelve. I always enjoy doing business with you and Phil.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by SteveB31

We at Bert's do build our own engines. We do not repair cracks in blocks, as we will only use crack free blocks. We only do inserts, using Rich Falukas bearings and rods. We only chose to build our own engines because we used to sell others engines and were not happy with their results. Our short blocks are $3150 exchange and we usually have them in stock. We have built 60 of them in the last 2 years, and have yet to have an issue that we are aware of. We do not make a living just building engines, so we build one every two weeks and try to build them well, and we do them in house. ANY engine builder will eventually have a problem with an engine, we have just been lucky and are trying to make sure we do them right the first time. Any questions, just give us a call.

Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center
Since 1980
800-321-1931

What does that short block include other than inserts? Is it stock or a touring style motor?

[CarlG]

As long as we are hi-jacking this thread; What is the core charge, ie: no exchange block supplied?

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by SteveB31

We at Bert's do build our own engines. We do not repair cracks in blocks, as we will only use crack free blocks. We only do inserts, using Rich Falukas bearings and rods. We only chose to build our own engines because we used to sell others engines and were not happy with their results. Our short blocks are $3150 exchange and we usually have them in stock. We have built 60 of them in the last 2 years, and have yet to have an issue that we are aware of. We do not make a living just building engines, so we build one every two weeks and try to build them well, and we do them in house. ANY engine builder will eventually have a problem with an engine, we have just been lucky and are trying to make sure we do them right the first time. Any questions, just give us a call.

Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center
Since 1980
800-321-1931

i thought i read that insert motors were more prone to rear main leaks and bearing wear ?? do they use a rear seal??

[C26Pinelake]

I was going to have H & H do a rebuild for me but let me assure that is now not going to happen 1
Thanks Barners !

[Chris Haynes]

Originally Posted by bbrocksr

Not in this lifetime!
Bill

Terry already has the crank and rods done. He is just working out flowing problems to have the blocks.

[SteveB31]

Shortblock includes balanced crank, bearings, reground cam ($400 more for Stipe Cam), straight guides, valves, bearings , pistons rings etc. . $300 core charge. You install head, pan, valve cover, oil pump, timing cover, pulley , flywheel housing, clutch etc. We also lighten and balance our own flywheels with REBUILT clutch plate (not Chinese clutch plate) $395 exchange.

http://parts.modelastore.com/show_Product.asp?ID=3472
http://parts.modelastore.com/show_Product.asp?ID=3584

Steve Becker
Bert's Model A Center

[Glenn of northport]

I have 2 H&H engines one is great the other is alittle noisey at about 40 miles hr but is in a station wagon driving it is like being in a sound box picks up any noise.Max jr has been good and helped me out on other things also shiped to Detroit on one of my engines.I will buy a 3rd engine from them next year

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Ed Saniewski

Well, thanks to all for posting, and the many P.M.'s I got. I tried searching past posts about H&H but found none, I am glad I asked. Three of our NJ club members have gotten rebuilds from Schwalms and had problems, one had to pull the engine and send it back. I will look around some more, thanks again, Ed Saniewski

When you do a search for "H&H" the "&" sign confuses the computer.

Charlie Stephens

[Terry, NJ]

I used Schwalms and I must admit he did a great job. Inserted bearings and lot's of other stuff I don't recall. But There's a guy in Souderton, Bucks Co. Pa. Automotive and Industrial (A and I) machine who is supposed to be good and a little cheaper. I can't find the number right now (It's here somewhere) And there is another guy in just outside of Trenton, in Hamilton who does a lot of engine work. I don't have his name but I can get it.
Terry

[Bill Goddard]

Looking forward to those names and numbers Terry. Bill G

[Ed Saniewski]

Thanks to all for the input. A correction to my post before, My friends problem was the rear main was leaking a lot of oil, he wanted to bring the car back but they said no,that's when Schwalms made him pull the engine and return it. When he got the engine back it would not run. Schwalms then sent a mechanic out to the house and they found the timing gear was not set correctly. After that the car has run great.The other friend in our club has not found the problem yet.

[no6]

Originally Posted by Ed Saniewski

Thanks to all for the input. A correction to my post before, My friends problem was the rear main was leaking a lot of oil, he wanted to bring the car back but they said no,that's when Schwalms made him pull the engine and return it. When he got the engine back it would not run. Schwalms then sent a mechanic out to the house and they found the timing gear was not set correctly. After that the car has run great.The other friend in our club has not found the problem yet.

I had my local machinist build my motor and Schwalms did the mains. When my machinist started to put my motor together he noticed that the indent in the cam gear was in the wrong place, brand new gear from Snyders, he set top dead center for me and I put the rest together and it started on first crank. I would not totally blame the machinist on everything as most of the parts probably come from China, point being how can you get a timing mark off, wouldn't you think there is a standard way of setting up the procedure?

[miss victoria]

i know the guys at h&h and they do good work .its to bad you only hear about the few problems and not about the hundreds of good engines they turn out. this goes for anyone on the barn you always hear about all the negitives first.

[Bill Goddard]

Did we get a definitive answer on who builds Snyder,s engines? Bill G

[Mitch//pa]

kevin prus does snyders engines. the name of the shop is kevin prus engineering and they only do babbits....

[Bruce Adams]

I have been quite pleased with my ANTIQUE ENGINE REBUILDERS from Skokie, IL, job they did for me with inserts, hi compression head, balanced shaft, lightened wheel, hardened and over bored valves, etc.
all at a very good price.
They met me in HERSHEY and exchanged for my core at that time. I arranged for it ahead of time.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

The counterbalanced engine in Minerva, my '30 coupe that I had to sell to pay care home costs, was built by Adam Reid in Turlock, Ca. in 1996 & ran flawlessly & VERY quiet!
A dear friend bought a wrecked slant window with a low mileage H & H engine, straightened & painted the car, tested it locally for 27 miles, took off ALONE! and drove up to Northern Montana & the Canadian Border. Only problem was overheating twice on a loooong 13 mile constant grade. Then he realized he was over-advancing for that speed, trying to get MORE power, no more problems.
That's a common mistake, I've unconsciously done it myself a time or two in the hills. Remember, in the hills, Sorta' match the advance to the speed. Like, 1/2 speed=1/2 advance.
My point is, there's a lot of rebuilders, and some are not always BAD some are not always GOOD! The mechanic/machinist that NEVER has "comebacks" ain't doing much! Some problems MAY be caused by owners finishing up the assembly of a rebuilt "short block" done by a reputable company. Would he ADMIT his mistakes, or using "BAD" components, NO! he'd probably blame it on the rebuilder ?????????? Bill W.

[ctvpa]

If you are in New Jersey try J&M http://jandm-machine.com/ not too far from you in Massachusetts. They are very nice to deal with, reasonable, and do great work that they stand by. They do all antique engines and rebuilt the only running PT Boat engine. Check them out, they did mine.

[Chris Haynes]

Originally Posted by bbrocksr

Not in this lifetime!
Bill

"Always with the negative vibes!" Oddball in Kelly's Heros.

[sturgis 39]

I have never saw an employee that wanted to do a bad job. They may make mistakes but they are not on purpose. Maybe a disgruntled employee on his way out the door but most people do the best they can.

A friend owns a car repair service. His biggest problem is the customer telling him how and what he has to fix. The customer is usually wrong on what is causing the problem.

I can see somebody taking their engine to be rebuilt and telling the builder that only the center main bearing needs to be replaced. Then after the other bearings fail he blames the engine builder. This happens a lot more than faulty workmanship. The mechanic would be smart to not work these types of customers.

[pick]

Antique Engine Rebuilders (Richard Faluka) in Skokie gets my recommendation and that of a number of my friends and fellow club members. Good work Stands behin d is work And priced at market value

[Roadster5040]

Where is Kelly located in Texas anyone have a number

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Roadster5040

Where is Kelly located in Texas anyone have a number

Royce city I beleive. Google Ron Kelly model a motors. His website should pop up

[CarlG]

For Ron Kelley, try this:

http://www.modelaperformance.com/

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Roadster5040

Where is Kelly located in Texas anyone have a number

The number is (972) 771-1911.

Charlie Stephens