Removing rear brake drum

[mstover]

OK, I'm stumped again. I'm trying to remove the rear brake drum to begin my first inspection/repair of my 1930 coupe's brakes, which are virtually nonexistent. I've removed the axle nut and washer only I don't see a fiber seal as described in Les Andrew's book. I've tried a hub puller on the drum and it doesn't budge. Could there be a snap ring holding it in place? It appears there might be but the book doesn't mention this.

Any help you can give is well appreciated!
Mike

[pat in Santa Cruz]

a missing fiber seal is not uncommon. When you use the puller, are you sure the E brake is released? The puller needs to be tightened quite tight and holding the drum requires engaging the E brake. Then the drum needs to be released from the brake. Then strike the end of the puller squarely with a heavy hammer. I f its still stuck, try some penetrating oil down the key slot, and try it again with a touch more torque on the puller screw. Worst cases can often be remedied by installing the axle nut loosely against the hub to hold it on but allow it to move, re installing the wheel and driving the car around the block, then try pulling the drum again.

[Dana Barlow]

After all above is done and if it's still stuck,with puller on and loaded,hit the side of hub nose hard with BFH=this well vib the nose and reless the tappered stuck hub from axle.

BFH=big fuing Hammer

[mstover]

I released the emergency brake (which makes sense) and hit the end of the hub puller with the BFH and it still doesn't budge. Maybe I'll pick a different wheel and see what happens.

[tuneman]

You need to adj the brakes looser, buy turning the brake adj on the backing plate. It should turn counter clock wise to loosen count the clicks to get them back later.

[Patrick L.]

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It sounds like you have a stubborn one.. All the above is good advice.. A couple more options.. You could try jacking up that wheel, leaving the axle nut loose, install wheel loose, put it 3rd left the clutch out and get some wheel speed up and slam the brakes.. If it doesn't come loose after a couple tries then its time to punt.. Many don't like this next one,, but,, I turn the nut around and install it flush with the axle,, give it a whack.. If that doesn't do it,, then its time for a hub [not wheel stud] puller and some serious heat..

[Roadster62]

CAUTION!!!!!!!!!!!! A hub puller can POP the drum and puller off at any time. If left with a lot of pressure they have been known to explode off the axle with enough force to break things. Don't have anything in its path. Bob

[Charlie Stephens]

Either buy (Winfield Tool Works, (631 928-3316) or borrow/rent a KR Wilson puller from a local club (Model A or early V8, they used the same puller). The puller is expensive but cheaper than a new axle.

Charlie Stephens

[fordfixer]

If you have some time, just leave your hub puller attached overnight. I have done this many times. Install the hub puller as tight as you can get it and just let it sit over night. Usually in the morning it will have popped loose. If need be, retighten the puller and then try the hammer again. So far, I have never failed to get one off or have I ever had to use heat of any kind to get one off. The fiber washer is stuck inside the end of the hub, around the end of the axle. You should be able to pick it out quite easely. And no, there is not any type of snap or lock ring.

[J Franklin]

knock off pullers or turning the nut around flush are old time and cheap ways of doing this job. It was used mostly when newer axles could be had for a song at most junk yards, use a good puller made for the job!

[Kurt in NJ]

Jack up the wheel on the other side so the weight is off it---then hit the puller or knock off

[supergnat]

I suggest you purchase the puller below which matchey your hub style (CHECK THE DIAGRAM IN THE CATALOG) . I had a stubborn one ant this tool did the trickjfor me. I took the info below from the Bratton's catalog. Good luck.
Supergnat

REAR WHEEL HUB PULLERFor Year(s): 28-31

Opening at base of puller hooks into the ring on the hub. One inch bolt at end of puller must be tighten down aginst axle end to loosen hub from axle. Made from strong ductile iron. A copy of an early after market puller.

Part #06150 REAR WHEEL HUB PULLER $ 31.00 REAR WHEEL HUB PULLERFor Year(s): 28-31

Opening at base of puller hooks into the groove on the hub. One inch bolt at end of puller must be tighten down aginst axle end to loosen hub from axle. Made from strong ductile iron. A copy of an early after market puller.

Part #06160 REAR WHEEL HUB PULLER $ 31.00

[columbiA]

I use a K O puller made witha nut with a short piece of steel welded on the end.Tighten puller after everyhit with a 4# hammer & with opposite wheel off the ground,it should pop loose.

[CarlG]

I have one of the hub pullers made by Mitchel Mfg. It works great and is designed to work on either style hub, but like all of the posts above said, it takes putting the pressure of the puller plus the blows with the sledge hammer to get it to release.

[Four Lazy C Boss]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Either buy (Winfield Tool Works, (631 928-3316) or borrow/rent a KR Wilson puller from a local club (Model A or early V8, they used the same puller). The puller is expensive but cheaper than a new axle.

Charlie Stephens

I'm having the same problem. I've got a tough one and am using one of the cheap (half-shell) pullers. I stopped because I was afraid it was going to damage the end of the axle with all the force I was putting on it. I am wondering if the KR Wilson puller is the answer. It has some features that seem much better. It sounds like you can pull any drum with it. Is that the answer for all of us?

[Patrick L.]

Make sure everything is backed off. Keep putting pressure on the puller, whack the end with a big-ass hammer. If it does work, try again and again with heat, serious heat. Still doesn't work, Back the axle nut off 1/2 turn, drive around for awhile or year or so. Sometimes just jacking up that wheel with the nut backed off the 1/2 turn and driving the car on the jack while really slamming the brake will work.

[Rowdy]

I have had to put a 4' cheater on my breaker bar to get the rear drums off afew I have done. Rod

[Four Lazy C Boss]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Make sure everything is backed off. Keep putting pressure on the puller, whack the end with a big-ass hammer. If it does work, try again and again with heat, serious heat. Still doesn't work, Back the axle nut off 1/2 turn, drive around for awhile or year or so. Sometimes just jacking up that wheel with the nut backed off the 1/2 turn and driving the car on the jack while really slamming the brake will work.

I'm not sure I could make myself whack the end with a hammer. What does this do to the pinion gear at the other end in the differential? You are not the only one who gave this advice, but it doesn't sound good to me.

I may have to bite the bullet and get a first-class puller - The K R Wilson. From what I read it will get the toughest ones off without risking damage. Have any of you guys used it? Do you still have to whack it? I would like to avoid the whacking if possible.

[1931 flamingo]

HIT IT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>People have been removing stubborn ones like this for 80+ years. JMO
Paul in CT

[Patrick L.]

Even if you get a 'good' puller, which is a good idea, a big 'whack' is in order. If it'll come loose without the whack, good, but, then it wasn't on that tight.

[Rowdy]

The problem I had was more to do with mis-installed and damged e-brake carrier than hub stuck on axle. Some of the damage was the result of lug studs being welded into place rather than swedged. All NOS linings and other parts ruined because of the idiot that attempted to rebuild the brakes the first time without fixing the rear axle seal problem and lack of knowledge and possibly tools to do the job right the first time. What a waste. Rod

[Bob C]

Don't know if this was mentioned. Screw a nut on the axle(leave a gap between the
nut and hub) so it won't mushroom and also keeps the drum from jumping off the axle.

Bob

[columbiA]

I have always been able to get even the most stubborn hub to pop loose by using a knock-off puller made from a nut with a solid piece of plate welded over the end.I have always done it by myself by using 2 large screw drivers & jamming 1 driver on one side between drum & backing plate and 2,nd s- driver on opposite side.With 1 leg pushing on L s-driver & R- leg pushing on the other s-driver,you give the K-O nut a good hit with a 4# hammer.Hit the KO with a strong hit.Wimpy hits will not do any good.After EVERY hit you must retighten the KO,otherwise you can damage the threads on axle.This method has never failed me with the 16 A,s I have had over the years. You should be glad that you have a tight hub.The vast majority are loose & have wider keyways from running with loose hubs.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

Jack up the wheel on the other side so the weight is off it---then hit the puller or knock off

Mike, do it like Kurt says here. Here's the TRICK: Using the SIMPLE supplied screw on knocker, Rap on a 15" Crescent with a big hammer to tighten it, with that wheel on the ground & the other one jacked up, rap the knocker once only with a BIG hammer, tighten it again with Crescent & hammer & rap it only once again before another big rap, ALWAYS retighten the knocker after each rap! The constant retightening seems to be the SECRET! I've ALWAYS been able to get them off, this way, even on those OLD MOPAR axles.
It even works on a rear end out of the car, if you put a wheel & tire on the hub you're removing.
JUST REMEMBER, HIT ONCE, & TIGHTEN, HIT ONCE & TIGHTEN, HIT ONCE & TIGHTEN!! bILL w.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

DIDJA' GET IT OFF & HOW?? The Dog wants to know! Bill W.

[lasjts]

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I bought the Vintage Precision Inc hub puller and had great results on a VERY stubborn hub. I really like the tool design and construction. For $99 it seems like a good deal. http://vintageprecision.com/products...ers/index.html

My question is how many foot pounds should that hub nut be tightened up to? I keep getting mixed signals on that.

[Four Lazy C Boss]

[QUOTE=lasjts;760868]I bought the Vintage Precision Inc hub puller and had great results on a VERY stubborn hub. I really like the tool design and construction. For $99 it seems like a good deal. http://vintageprecision.com/products...ers/index.html


That looks like a very good tool for the money. My car is all tucked in for the winter, so I'll order one of these when the snow melts and I can get back in to my house and garage - hopefully by May. I've had the car for less than a year and restored the front brakes. The rears work great, but I need to take a look at them. Thanks for the suggestion.

[tommy2]

I just had the very same problem and tried all the suggestions including backing off the castle nut and driving it around. In the end, I had a steering wheel and fan puller that was able to attach and ended up having to "walk" the drum all the way off. Felt like I won the lottery. I also couldn't find a fiber washer ad watched the video on how to grease the wheel bearings online. Try everything but don't be afraid to try something yourself. You'll get there.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by tommy2

... I also couldn't find a fiber washer ...

A common garden hose washer will work in a pinch.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Do it EXACTLY like post #24 & it'll come off! Remember to hit it ONLY 1 time, & re-tighten the knocker nut with a 15" Crescent & a rap on it with your BIG hammer.
I've even pulled drums on an old rear end, just layin' on the ground. Just put one old wheel on the drum you're workin' on, then follow my instructions, exactly!
Bill W.

[Chris in CT]

Bob C's advice about putting a nut on the end of the axle so the threaded nipple will not mushroom is very good. The other good thing to do is to insert the shank of a broken drill bit into the cotter-pin hole so that the hits on the end of the axle shaft do not crush and deform the cotter-pin hole. Drill bit to be of same size as hole...

[robinson727]

Getting ready to do this to.. My wife and I are newbs.. just bought our 1st, a 1930 PU.
Thank you for the info.

[Chris H]

I just went thru this over the last week. I tried most of the previously mentioned methods. After removing the axle nuts, washers, and fiber gaskets, I began applying Kroil to the axle. I laid one 3# hammer on one side of the hub and smacking the hub on the other side with another 3# hammer. After a few hits the driver side came off. The passenger side was more stubborn. I reapplied Kroil over several days and repeated the 2 hammer method, while waiting on my puller order from Vintage Precision. The puller arrived and was immediately used. It removed the stubborn hub with just a moderate amount of force, with a mild pop.
The Vintage Precision puller is an "improved" version of the KR puller. Just what this "improvement" might be, I do not know, having never seen a KR. I can say that it is well built and machined, and made in the USA. I did not mind spending the money on the tool, as I am sure that it will be used again.
I might add that the VP puller does come with the thread protection nut, which I did use. There was no damage to the axle thread. I did not use any hammer on the axle thread or to the puller. I was reluctant to use any heat on any of the brake or axle components.

[glenn in camino]

Several years ago I bought a puller that attaches to the lug bolts, and bears on the axle. It works every time. Ask the guys in your club if anyone has one. Good luck, don't break anything.

[Pete]

Do NOT use a lug nut type puller. Good way to ruin a hub.
Do NOT use a hammer of any size. Good way to have to
re-machine the threads and end of an axle.

Take the axle nut off and replace it with a HARD HIGH NUT run down within 3 or 4 threads of the axle.
Use a HIGH QUALITY clamshell type puller.
Pull it up as tight as you can.
PUT ON EAR PROTECTION, this is going to be loud when it comes loose.
Now, use a rosebud or very large tip acetylene torch and heat the exposed part of the hub behind the puller.
Re-tighten the puller as you go. No need to get even dull red.
BANG!
This is about the only way you can get them loose if they have been lapped on as in race cars in the old days.
No buggered threads or bent axle ends either.
DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING TILL ALL COOLS!

And now a word from the soap box.
All early Ford type rear ends should, if used on the street have either bolt on drum clips or weld on safety hubs.
The people you could run into head on in case of an axle failure will thank you and it may even save you having a bashed up fender like if a wheel came off and rolled down the street.

[Mitch//pa]

Here is what I use

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Here is what I use

Yup, that works good also.

[Marshall57]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Don't know if this was mentioned. Screw a nut on the axle(leave a gap between the
nut and hub) so it won't mushroom and also keeps the drum from jumping off the axle.

Bob

This is one of those no brainers that I wish I had thought of. Thanks for the tip as it would have saved me hours of time and effort getting the threads back in working order after pulling the drums.

[maxandmickey]

they can be a real pain in the butt.i do a lot of brake jobs and have had many problems with getting rotors off.got sick of banging them off.went and purchased a hydrolic puller.they come off with ease now.word of caution,stay out of the way because they will fly off with force.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by maxandmickey

they can be a real pain in the butt.i do a lot of brake jobs and have had many problems with getting rotors off.got sick of banging them off.went and purchased a hydrolic puller.they come off with ease now.word of caution,stay out of the way because they will fly off with force.

Any pictures of the hydraulic puller?

Could you use it with the nut on but loose?

[Henry1953]

I had to heat mine as in #35. They both came off and no damage to threads etc.

[John Borland]

I am also having a problem pull the rear hub. My question is: how do you keep the rear hub from spinning around when you tighten the hub puller? I put the tranny in gear, but the hub still spins. (As a side note, yesterday I installed a new transmission tower section; perhaps I don't have it installed correctly thus permitting the hub to spin - I will check on this also).

Also the hub puller I am using is similar to the K. R. Wilson, but forms only half a circle around the recess rather than a full circle. Thanks for any help anyone may have.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Pulling the parking brake on should stop the drums from spinning. Otherwise have the tire on the ground for the other rear wheel, and have the tranny in first gear.

[John Borland]

I am also having a problem pulling the rear hub on a 1931 Model A using a half shell puller. One of the problems is that the hub spins when I try to tighten the tool despite having the car in gear. How can I prevent it from spinning since the e-brake is supposed to be off when removing? (I might mention that just yesterday I installed a new tower assembly to my transmission; perhaps I screwed up on that somehow - will recheck that).

[Rowdy]

I broke my bell shaped puller last week after several years of use. Ordered the improved KRW style puller and should have it late next week. When I have one that tries to spin like you discribe, I put the lug nuts on and wedge a tire iron or piece of pipe between two of the studs with the end on the ground to keep it from spinning. Rod

[Pilotdave]

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Re: stopping the drum from spinning - x2 like Rowdy said.

[qstott]

Is it ok to user an impact driver or wrench on the puller bolt?