The Ford Barn

CarlG · 12-13-2011, 10:20 PM

Now I'm really confused. Just about as many say "leave the spring on the axle" as do say "leave the spring attached to the frame". And then to add insult to injury, there's the comment "to leave the spring on the axle, but use a good spring spreader." I wouldn't think that a spring spreader would be necessary if you left the spring on the axle.

Mikeinnj · 12-13-2011, 10:43 PM

I agree with Tom Endy's advice above. Any one who trusts their fate to that center spring bolt not breaking while the spring is out of the rear cross member is a fool. When I assemble or disassemble the rear spring leaves i always wrap a heavy chain, ends bolted together tightly, around the spring before tightening or loosen the center bolt and leave the chain on the spring while handling it and remove the chain only when it is being put into the cross member. Think "giant cross bow" ready to fire at any unknown moment.....safety first !
Leave the spring in the car and undo the shackles to drop the rear. Much safer.

Tom Endy · 12-13-2011, 11:04 PM

I bought my spring spreader from AC&R a number of years ago. It was about $60 then. It was made by Pete Weschler the original owner. He still makes them for other suppliers. The one I have is a bare bones model. Bratton carries a similar one with more bells and whistles, such as thrust bearings, spring loaded feet, and feet retainers. They sell for about $135. If I was buying a new one I wouild get the bell and whistles one as it is easier to use and I use it a lot.

I think Snyders carries the bare bones one for around $85. Either one is a proper spring spreader and is safe to use.

CarlG:
When you enncounter a rear axle assembly that someone has removed from the car with the spring still attached, you will still need the spreader to get the spring off if you want to dissemble the rear axle assembly.

Tom Endy

hardtimes · 12-13-2011, 11:13 PM

Tom,
The MAIN leaf of the rear spring is energized....when spread and fastened to the spring shackles no? As long as the shackles/ bolts/bushings are good shape, I'm trying to understand how the 'danger' occurrs when leaving the spring attached and removed with the rear axle ?
I can understand and see the danger of working with defective/faulty/worn out parts and / or using dangerous methods...such as using a home made spreader that collapses/bends and/or slips and suddenly releases the spring.
But , if you KNOW that you're working with good parts , wouldn't it be SAFE to leave the spring on the axle to remove it ?

pat in Santa Cruz · 12-13-2011, 11:16 PM

I use the newer Brattons spreader. The thrust washers make turning it easier than the style without them. I agree with Tom about leaving the spring safely locked in the cross member and restrained by a spreader. I have seen springs let go. I have seen shackles break under tension. They make me nervous as heck when they're un clamped.

Leathernek · 12-13-2011, 11:19 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I recently took out a rear spring off that ol' chassis that Hillbilly Tim helped me find. I assumed that there was no tension on it because it was so rusty and in really poor shape. Boy was I wrong! I loosened the U-bolts- nothing. So I grabbed the sawz-all and cut the center bolt and BOOM! the spring and rear of the chassis popped up and scared the crap out of me- Needless to say, I'll never do it that way again. Lesson learned: never underestimate the power of a brittle ol' rusty rear spring.....

hardtimes · 12-13-2011, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

What about the drive shaft? Won't the drive shaft and torque tube need to be shortened to use the overdrive, if so the spring will need to be removed so as to remove the driveshaft and pinion. I'm not familiar with all of the overdrive possibilities and requirements. I have always left the rear spring mounted to the backend whenever I removed one. In recent years, now that I have a floor jack and a shop with a cement floor, I use the method described by quickchange.

BTW- The torque tube/driveshaft and pinion can ALL be removed without removing the spring and/or axle housings !

CarlG · 12-14-2011, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

BTW- The torque tube/driveshaft and pinion can ALL be removed without removing the spring and/or axle housings !

I guess that would be true, provided the engine and transmission were out.

Tom Wesenberg · 12-14-2011, 12:55 AM

I remiove the body, engine, tranny and front axle of this wreck first. I was down to the rear axle and frame and when I was removing the rear spring U bolts I thought it was strange that they seemed to have pressure all the way to the end. It never dawned on me that the center bolt for the spring was rusted and no longer holding. When I got to the last thread of the second U bolt the frame suddenly jumped into the air a couple feet. Luckily I had my chest and head just behind the rear crossmember, but that taught me a lesson. I didn't have my spring spreader at the farm where this wreck was taken apart and I should have waited until I had it.

Jason in TX · 12-14-2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

What about the drive shaft? Won't the drive shaft and torque tube need to be shortened to use the overdrive, if so the spring will need to be removed so as to remove the driveshaft and pinion. I'm not familiar with all of the overdrive possibilities and requirements. I have always left the rear spring mounted to the backend whenever I removed one. In recent years, now that I have a floor jack and a shop with a cement floor, I use the method described by quickchange.

The drive shaft can be pulled out of the banjo housing without disassembling the rear end banjo. You pull the pinion bearings and race out as one assembly, attached to the drive shaft. Then you tap the new shortened drive shaft back into the banjo, all while not removing the spring.

hardtimes · 12-14-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlG

I guess that would be true, provided the engine and transmission were out.

Well, you could do IT easier by disconnecting U joint cover AND lowering the rear end (with or w/o spring) ...then using correct 'puller' .

CarlG · 12-14-2011, 02:40 PM

What it really boils down to is that EITHER the rear axle gets dropped, OR the engine/tranny gets pulled. Can't do it without one or the other.

1931 flamingo · 12-14-2011, 04:02 PM

CarlG: If we're after the rear spring, why would we pull the engine and tranny??
Paul in CT

CarlG · 12-14-2011, 04:16 PM

Sorry, somehow this thread morfed into pulling the drive shaft / pinion out of the banjo. I guess that's what I was referring to.

Purdy Swoft · 12-14-2011, 06:09 PM

Sorry CarlG, I'm the cause of the drive shaft discussion. Here was my thought, first off I forgot about the special tool that can be used to pull the driveshaft, pinion, bearings and race all at the same time ,out the front of the banjo. I was pretty sure that the drive shaft would have to be removed and shortened. The way that I have removed model A driveshafts over the years ,without this sometimes flimsey tool, has been to remove the left rear end houseing, differential and remove the driveshaft and pinion from the rear. If this procedure was used it would be just as well to leave the spring mounted to the frame because it would need to be removed anyway. Otherwise I always remove the backend with the spring attached. Rear springs can be dangerious and if I was working on one that looked like the ones that Tom Wesenberg or Leatherneck described, I would be cautious. I have several used spring assemblys in my parts collection, I'm sure others do also. I see them at swap meets often. I wouldn't even mention the spring issue but a couple of guys make it sound like the very sight of a used spring pack was time to call the bomb squad. One even as much as called anybody that removed the backend with the spring attached was a FOOL. I would never tell anybody what they should do. I only say what I would do or have done . I never said anything about touching the spring center bolt.

Tom Endy · 12-14-2011, 06:11 PM

This is the tool you need to pull the drive shaft and pinion assembly out of the banjo without disassembling the rear axle assembly. You don't want to loosen the two large nuts on the pinion if you want to retain the pre-load.

Tom Endy

CarlG · 12-14-2011, 06:44 PM

Is that the tool that Mitchell makes?

Tom Endy · 12-14-2011, 07:04 PM

CarlG:

No, it is the one I had made. Mitchell does make a similar tool, but I believe you have to remove the two large nuts to use it. You will then have to re-set the pre-load on the pinion once you install the new shaft.

You will also need some kind of a pusher-back-in tool to get the pinion back in the banjo.

Tom Endy

CarlG · 12-14-2011, 07:07 PM

Looks like I have a whole bunch of homework ahead of me before I get my OD installed this winter.

Jim Parker Toronto · 12-14-2011, 07:34 PM

Carl, what I did was removed all the stock parts from the car that I wasn't using, and put them in storage. I picked up another rear end, and rebuilt it to my needs. I don't know how plentiful parts are up there in Alaska. If not changing your truck back to stock, then you would have a complete set up for your next project. There's always one more, right?

12-13-2011, 10:20 PM	#21
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: Dropping rear axle: Rear spring Now I'm really confused. Just about as many say "leave the spring on the axle" as do say "leave the spring attached to the frame". And then to add insult to injury, there's the comment "to leave the spring on the axle, but use a good spring spreader." I wouldn't think that a spring spreader would be necessary if you left the spring on the axle.

12-13-2011, 10:43 PM	#22
Mikeinnj Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 1,262	Re: Dropping rear axle: Rear spring I agree with Tom Endy's advice above. Any one who trusts their fate to that center spring bolt not breaking while the spring is out of the rear cross member is a fool. When I assemble or disassemble the rear spring leaves i always wrap a heavy chain, ends bolted together tightly, around the spring before tightening or loosen the center bolt and leave the chain on the spring while handling it and remove the chain only when it is being put into the cross member. Think "giant cross bow" ready to fire at any unknown moment.....safety first ! Leave the spring in the car and undo the shackles to drop the rear. Much safer.

12-13-2011, 11:13 PM	#24
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	Re: Dropping rear axle: Rear spring Tom, The MAIN leaf of the rear spring is energized....when spread and fastened to the spring shackles no? As long as the shackles/ bolts/bushings are good shape, I'm trying to understand how the 'danger' occurrs when leaving the spring attached and removed with the rear axle ? I can understand and see the danger of working with defective/faulty/worn out parts and / or using dangerous methods...such as using a home made spreader that collapses/bends and/or slips and suddenly releases the spring. But , if you KNOW that you're working with good parts , wouldn't it be SAFE to leave the spring on the axle to remove it ? Last edited by hardtimes; 12-13-2011 at 11:15 PM. Reason: add..

12-13-2011, 11:16 PM	#25
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: Dropping rear axle: Rear spring I use the newer Brattons spreader. The thrust washers make turning it easier than the style without them. I agree with Tom about leaving the spring safely locked in the cross member and restrained by a spreader. I have seen springs let go. I have seen shackles break under tension. They make me nervous as heck when they're un clamped.

12-13-2011, 11:19 PM	#26
Leathernek Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Northwest Georgia Posts: 178	Re: Dropping rear axle: Rear spring Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I recently took out a rear spring off that ol' chassis that Hillbilly Tim helped me find. I assumed that there was no tension on it because it was so rusty and in really poor shape. Boy was I wrong! I loosened the U-bolts- nothing. So I grabbed the sawz-all and cut the center bolt and BOOM! the spring and rear of the chassis popped up and scared the crap out of me- Needless to say, I'll never do it that way again. Lesson learned: never underestimate the power of a brittle ol' rusty rear spring.....

12-14-2011, 12:55 AM	#29
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Dropping rear axle: Rear spring I remiove the body, engine, tranny and front axle of this wreck first. I was down to the rear axle and frame and when I was removing the rear spring U bolts I thought it was strange that they seemed to have pressure all the way to the end. It never dawned on me that the center bolt for the spring was rusted and no longer holding. When I got to the last thread of the second U bolt the frame suddenly jumped into the air a couple feet. Luckily I had my chest and head just behind the rear crossmember, but that taught me a lesson. I didn't have my spring spreader at the farm where this wreck was taken apart and I should have waited until I had it.

12-14-2011, 02:40 PM	#32
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: Dropping rear axle: Rear spring What it really boils down to is that EITHER the rear axle gets dropped, OR the engine/tranny gets pulled. Can't do it without one or the other.

12-14-2011, 04:02 PM	#33
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Dropping rear axle: Rear spring CarlG: If we're after the rear spring, why would we pull the engine and tranny?? Paul in CT

12-14-2011, 04:16 PM	#34
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: Dropping rear axle: Rear spring Sorry, somehow this thread morfed into pulling the drive shaft / pinion out of the banjo. I guess that's what I was referring to.

12-14-2011, 06:09 PM	#35
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Dropping rear axle: Rear spring Sorry CarlG, I'm the cause of the drive shaft discussion. Here was my thought, first off I forgot about the special tool that can be used to pull the driveshaft, pinion, bearings and race all at the same time ,out the front of the banjo. I was pretty sure that the drive shaft would have to be removed and shortened. The way that I have removed model A driveshafts over the years ,without this sometimes flimsey tool, has been to remove the left rear end houseing, differential and remove the driveshaft and pinion from the rear. If this procedure was used it would be just as well to leave the spring mounted to the frame because it would need to be removed anyway. Otherwise I always remove the backend with the spring attached. Rear springs can be dangerious and if I was working on one that looked like the ones that Tom Wesenberg or Leatherneck described, I would be cautious. I have several used spring assemblys in my parts collection, I'm sure others do also. I see them at swap meets often. I wouldn't even mention the spring issue but a couple of guys make it sound like the very sight of a used spring pack was time to call the bomb squad. One even as much as called anybody that removed the backend with the spring attached was a FOOL. I would never tell anybody what they should do. I only say what I would do or have done . I never said anything about touching the spring center bolt.

12-14-2011, 06:44 PM	#37
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: Dropping rear axle: Rear spring Is that the tool that Mitchell makes?

12-14-2011, 07:07 PM	#39
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: Dropping rear axle: Rear spring Looks like I have a whole bunch of homework ahead of me before I get my OD installed this winter.

12-14-2011, 07:34 PM	#40
Jim Parker Toronto Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,289	Re: Dropping rear axle: Rear spring Carl, what I did was removed all the stock parts from the car that I wasn't using, and put them in storage. I picked up another rear end, and rebuilt it to my needs. I don't know how plentiful parts are up there in Alaska. If not changing your truck back to stock, then you would have a complete set up for your next project. There's always one more, right?