Robertson head screws

[Peter J]

I had to Google it up but I'm finding Robertson head screws all over my 29 Special Coupe. Starter rod gromett, window sills etc. Would this indicate my rig was Canadian mfg.?
Pete

[mot]

as close to the Canadian border as you are ,its highly probable
did you check your engine number ?
does it start with an A or CA?
after 80 years it may be hard to pin down all the other canadian features ,as they most likely have been changed

[Peter J]

Engine is a 1930 swap at some time with no prefix to the #

[MrTube]

I remember hearing a story that Henry wanted exclusive rights to use the Robinson drive and was denied so he refused to use it at all. Wonder if there is any truth in that?

The story is probably wrong, i'm sure others here will know for sure.

[GordonJ]

Heard the same story from an expert on Canadian Model A's (he has since passed). I also don't know how much of the story is true, but I will relay what I heard. Apparently, Henry took a trip across the Detroit river to visit the Ford assembly plant in Windsor, Canada. The production guys were very enthusiastic about the Robertson screws in that they were much faster to install and did not strip out as often given that they used a square driver. Henry was intrigued and made an appointment to see Mr. Robertson who had the patent on the screws. Henry made a ridiculously low offer for exclusive rights and Robertson refused. Apparently Mr. Robertson was too much like Henry in personality (i.e. hard head) and was offended that he was being treated so poorly. When he refused to grant rights, Henry offered to buy the company and Mr. Robertson told him basically to take a trip back across the river to the U.S. This incensed Henry, so he decreed that Fords made in the U.S. would never use Robertson screws. (Since Ford of Canada was a separate company, they could continue to use them without having to follow the order).

[Farrell In Vancouver]

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Originally Posted by Peter J

I had to Google it up but I'm finding Robertson head screws all over my 29 Special Coupe. Starter rod gromett, window sills etc. Would this indicate my rig was Canadian mfg.?
Pete

Its a safe bet she's a Canadian girl who's snuck across the border.
Is there a stamp on the front sill by your left heel?

Be interesting to see where she came from.
Oh how you liking the weather, rain/snow,rain, snow,

[Aerocraft]

If you need tools, McMaster-Carr has a good selection.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#robertson-drivers/=a1no9d

They have a limited selection of hardware but a Canadian friend could supply much of what you might need. Gar Williams

[wrndln]

An early 29 might have a Canadian powerhouse generator if it was made in Canada. If your car has a powerhouse generator, Canadian powerhouse generator have a taper on the case toward the front and back, whereas a US powerhouse is straight. Why the there are two styles, I have no idea. I have a Canadian powerhouse generator. If you have a powerhouse and aren't sure what Canadian PH looks like send me a PM and I can send you a picture of one.
Rusty Nelson

[MikeK]

Listen carefully for a regional accent as they groan while tightening or removing. I have a box-full that say "You want flied lice?" just before the heads snap off.

[Dick Deegan]

Eh??

[Peter J]

Farrell,
Their's a stamp (E 1046) on the floor right next to the seat riser. What does that mean? No powerhouse gen. though. Getting a little wet down here but it's the mid-west folks that are really bitching obout you guys eh?
Pete

[HoarseWhisperer]

Interestingly enough, when I had to disassemble the lower stanchions on a 31' Canadian Roadster, none of my Robertson drivers would fit the screws.

I searched all over for something larger than the standard sizes of # 0-1-2 and 3 without success, until I contacted the Roberstson Company directly to obtain the #4 bit required for these particular screws.

Still the only source I'm aware of for the #4 size.

[Tinker]

My Canadian 28 has them everywhere.

[HoarseWhisperer]

http://www.mikes-afordable.com/home.asp

has an inventory of Robertson screws for the Model A

[Farrell In Vancouver]

Not sure about the "E", might stand for Edmonton if there was and assembly plant thar........Hmmmmm I down loaded a chart from somebuddy about Canadian plants and put it in a file so I could know exactly where it was in case I needed it .......no where the.............
Oh! we just send you guy the cold air, its up to Y'all what you mix it with...LOL

[Peter J]

Farrell,
I looked again and it's definately a seperate stamp (felt the indentation). I'm almost sure it's an "E" but it might be a "P" or an "F" but I don't think so. I don't think a photo would come out.
Pete

[Don S]

If your letter is an E, it was built in Edgewater,NewJersey,or if earlier than Nov 15/30 it would have been manufactured in Kearny NJ. The numbers after the letter,(s) have to do with body style. Hope this helps. Don

[Peter J]

Thanks Don,
I wonder how it ended up with the Robertson screws? I looked at Canadian plants on Wikipedia which indicated that the only plant during Model A years was Windsor.
Pete

[Tinker]

I have a E525 what does that mean? Definitely a Canadian ford.

I don't mean to hi-jack your thread peter.

[30Tudor]

Up here in Canada we almost exclusively have Roberson head screws. They are used in every application from wood, machine etc and are widely available everywhere. The screws hold on the tip of the driver and the screw shaft will typically break before the head strips. Do you guys have them in the US?

[1930fordor]

Originally Posted by 30Tudor

Up here in Canada we almost exclusively have Roberson head screws. They are used in every application from wood, machine etc and are widely available everywhere. The screws hold on the tip of the driver and the screw shaft will typically break before the head strips. Do you guys have them in the US?

The US woodworking shows I watch call them square drives

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by 30Tudor

Up here in Canada we almost exclusively have Roberson head screws. They are used in every application from wood, machine etc and are widely available everywhere. The screws hold on the tip of the driver and the screw shaft will typically break before the head strips. Do you guys have them in the US?

We have some and I mostly see them on deck screws and on trailer side panels.

Another different kind of screw is the ones on my old Chevy from the 50's on the horn button. It was called a "butterfly head" as I recall. That was another good design for holding onto the screwdriver tip and for giving a good grip without stripping or rounding the screwdriver tip.

[Peter J]

Tinker,
How did you track down the origin or your baby as Canadian? I was curious and found even the screws holding the speedo in are Robinson. Hummmm.

[1930fordor]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Another different kind of screw is the ones on my old Chevy from the 50's on the horn button. It was called a "butterfly head" as I recall. That was another good design for holding onto the screwdriver tip and for giving a good grip without stripping or rounding the screwdriver tip.

Is this the tip you where talking about?

[Tinker]

Well I'm guessing but, I bought it by way of Canada, i have pictures of the Canadian farm it was pulled from prior, and the ca-XXXX numbers on the 4 banger. So I think it is. You never know, I guess.

[Tom Wesenberg]

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Originally Posted by 1930fordor

Is this the tip you where talking about?

Yes, that's the one. I remember seeing those type screws used on some 50's Chevrolet's, but don't remember seeing them on anything since.

[Craig Lewis]

Canadian Model A's have Robertson door hinge screws & the ones near the top of the windshield frame facing fwd.
Pretty much everywhere that you guys see a slot screw, we have Robertson.

[Gord. B by the bay]

The size of square goes by the colour of the handle from the smallest to the largest is orange-yellow-green-red-black used extensively in the electrical Trade and wood work Trade, the story above about Henry and Mr. Robertson is very true The original factory was in Milton Ontario and is now in the Montreal area.
Have a Great Day
Gord. B by the Bay

[Farrell In Vancouver]

I borrowed this from the Model "A" Owners of Canada Inc.site:
What are the most common differences between Canadian and US Model A's?

>Canadian cars: Use Robertson screws throughout the interior body panel supports.
EVERYTHING inside the car was held with these square headed (Robertson) screws.
>Cast steel (iron?) bowl fuel filter assembly was changed to a glass type Jan 1929.
>Starter switch attached to starter using round headed Robertson screws.
>Champion Spark Plugs had "Made in Canada" on one side & "REG IN 3X CANADA" under the word
"CHAMPION" on the other.
>Rear lamp housings are different then the US types.
>Car horns were made by E.A. , or G.I.M. and Ames. Spartan is a US company.
>Stainless steel one - piece hubcaps were used on Canadian cars.
>Shock absorbers have "MADE IN CANADA", or "CAS" stamped on the cover.
>Tire valve stems were made by Schrader or Dill, with Canadian ID on them.
>Heinze/Ames wipers were not used on Canadian cars. E.A. and Trico were the most common.
>Canadian cars ('30- '31) had front forged fender brackets instead of stamped.
>Canadian bumper clamps are not recessed or painted blue. They are chromed, plain and have nothing on the surface
(front) - June 1928 - August 1930. The rear were the same, however, 1928 - 29 had Ford Script recessed in to the middle of the rear clamps, with some finding their way onto all 4 positions. It depended on what was in stock that day.
The rest of the time period ('31-'32)- had the holding bolt going through the plate to the back mounting plate (black) before being secured with a nut/ washer.
>The front center bumper clamp was a miniature of the above big ones over the same time period. Except the early 1928's were round, (2 1/2") Ford Script and had "MADE IN CANADA", in raised letters, on a nickel finished cover.
>Canadian Radiator badges for 1929 to late 1930 were plain Ford script with NO paint in the recess part of the badge.
A chrome finish was added in the late '30s. The 1928's passenger vehicles had a deep royal blue, almost black, baked enamel
background set in a nickel badge. Commercial vehicles had a straight black finish in the recess.
>Tools for the Canadian cars were under unique part #'s and had MADE IN CANADA stamped on the majourity of them.
>Owners Manuals, Instruction books also had "Ford Motor Company of Canada, Limited" on the front covers.
>Some Canadian Vehicle colours are listed under different names, which were listed in the May 1930 Canadian Parts book.
This fails to differentiate colour shade/ tone shifts as a result of no standardized CDN manufacturing procedures and the actual materials used. >> An example; the 'Ford Maroon' is used on the US '31 Town Sedan, whereas the CDN Town Sedan was painted with a 'Henna Red' the difference being in the shade of paint. >> A March 1931 Canadian Service Letter lists 12 standard colours for the Town Sedan, but doesn't name them. Until the Judging Standards Committee authorizes changes to the MARC/MAFCA standards, points may be deducted for any deviation from them. This means Canadian A's, painted in CDN colours, will loose points if we can't prove the difference outside the standards. (Thanks to Ian Lavery for this info)
>It was also in 1923, when Ford called the 2-door sedan a Tudor. Ford of Canada adoptedthe same name for it, and even went further and called the 4-door sedan a Fordor. Ford used that term for many years, but it originated in Canada and used it for five years before it was utilized in the United States. Both countries continued on, with these names, from the Model A's and B's and on to future products.
>The arrival of the Model A brought a much greater variety of body types, though Ford of Canada never produced quite all the body styles made south of the border. Model A station wagons, for instance, were never made in Canada. Ford of Canada constantly tried to keep a high level of Canadian content in it's production lines.
(go to: http://www.ford.ca/app/fo/en/our_com...e_war_fords.do for more interesting info).

I am still looking for the Canadian Plant code info..........maybe on my home PC

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Yes, that's the one. I remember seeing those type screws used on some 50's Chevrolet's, but don't remember seeing them on anything since.

I believe this is called a clutch drive.

I grew up in a family of carpenters and often heard "square drive" called Robertson drive.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by MrTube

I believe this is called a clutch drive.

I grew up in a family of carpenters and often heard "square drive" called Robertson drive.

Yes, I couldn't remember the term, but I'm sure "CLUTCH DRIVE" is the correct name, even though they have also been called "butterfly drive" by some.

[HoarseWhisperer]

Those interested in Canadian manufactured Model A's, might consider joining Canadian Model A Ford Foundation at:

http://www.cmaff.com/index.html

There are links to research and a library.

[HoarseWhisperer]

Originally Posted by Peter J

Thanks Don,
I wonder how it ended up with the Robertson screws? I looked at Canadian plants on Wikipedia which indicated that the only plant during Model A years was Windsor.
Pete

Peter,

The Ford Motor Company of Canada Parts Price List of 1931 indicates the factory & home office in East Windsor, Ontario, with assembling plants in:

Toronto, Ont
Montreal, Que
Winnipeg, Man
Vancouver, B. C.

[Jerry Parr WI]

Silly question maybe, but would the standard Model A differential drain plug be considered a Robertson screw?

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by 30Tudor

Up here in Canada we almost exclusively have Roberson head screws. They are used in every application from wood, machine etc and are widely available everywhere. The screws hold on the tip of the driver and the screw shaft will typically break before the head strips. Do you guys have them in the US?

Yes, We have them, but they are not too common. Mostly, we have Phillips heads. They tend to strip out under duress. Mostly, you see the Robertson drive on SS deck screws.
Terry