difficulty installing a ford-o-matic on new motor

[donald1950]

i am having difficulty installing a ford-0-matic on a motor. removed tired 1953 EAB with ford-0-matic from car. installed flex plate and attached converter to flex plate on new 1953 EAB motor.
used dowels to line up transmission as per service manual and transmission stops with block and bellhousing about an inch apart and goes no further. have kept front pump tangs 90 degrees different from converter output shaft but trans wont go in.
is it better to install converter on transmission so as to line things up and then install trans with converter to block and flex plate? spent 6 hours so far trying to get trans attached to block. i have all spark plugs out so motor will turn hoping to line converter with input shafts, but no go.
anyone done this before, installing a ford-0-matic on a motor? any advice will be gratefully accepted...
if i have to i will haul both (motor & trans) to a transmission shop and have someone younger, stronger & professional do it, but this should be simple to do. the service manual makes it sound simple. i just do not know what i am missing..
thank you in advance for any and all ideas.....

[1931 flamingo]

Hanging up on pilot bearing??
Paul in CT

[ponymare]

You really need to install the tc in the trans, make sure its all the way back and seated, otherwise you run a big risk of damaging the pump as well as the tc.

[Ken/Alabama]

Yes I'm thinking put the converter on the transmission then slide it up there. I helped a friend do this on his 53 Ford but it's been a few years back . But I'm pretty sure that's how we done it.

[Scott H in Wheaton]

Either the converter snout isn't going in to the crankshaft because the crankshaft has an old manual trans pilot bushing in it, OR the torque converter is not engaged onto the splines of the transmission inout shaft.

1) look at the crank, test fit just the converter into the crank.

2) make sure the input shaft of the transmission goes all the way into the torque converter. Rotate the converter until it seats deeper in the bellhousing.

Above info is based on the assumption the Fordomatic has the same basic trans design as a c4 and most other modern automatics

[donald1950]

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pilot bushing is out.
did a test fit on the crank and it fits that.
i called a friend and he says install the TC on the trans first also..
i may wait till friday to do anything as i stirred up my arthritis pretty well today..

Thank you all.....

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by donald1950

i am having difficulty installing a ford-0-matic on a motor. removed tired 1953 EAB with ford-0-matic from car. installed flex plate and attached converter to flex plate on new 1953 EAB motor.
used dowels to line up transmission as per service manual and transmission stops with block and bellhousing about an inch apart and goes no further. have kept front pump tangs 90 degrees different from converter output shaft but trans wont go in.
is it better to install converter on transmission so as to line things up and then install trans with converter to block and flex plate?....

Yes, fit converter to transmission to insure that tangs engage then to engine and flex -plate.

[rotorwrench]

The pilot generally fits into the flywheel on standard trans cars BUT the early crankshafts have a smaller internal bore than the later 50s engines. The cranks were changed to fit the Ford/Merc-O-Matic installations.

[34PKUP]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Hanging up on pilot bearing??
Paul in CT

Ford-O-matic doesn't use a pilot bearing

[Scott H in Wheaton]

Originally Posted by 34PKUP

Ford-O-matic doesn't use a pilot bearing

That is his point...if the crankshaft in the swappd motor was from a manul trans car the end of the crank might be plugged with a pilot bushing. Take out the pilot bushing to make room for the torque converter.

[34PKUP]

Originally Posted by Scott H in Wheaton

That is his point...if the crankshaft in the swappd motor was from a manul trans car the end of the crank might be plugged with a pilot bushing. Take out the pilot bushing to make room for the torque converter.

The original poster states that it was removed from an engine with Ford-O-matic.
The pilot bearing on a standard shift car is in the flywheel and not in the crankshaft.

[Barry-ct]

What I get is that he had the flywheel on the engine and the T/C bolted to the flywheel. So, that means it fit the end of the crank ok. He has to do what has been said, Fit the converter to the trans . Rotate it and push it back towards the tranny. It will drop in as the converter tangs find their spots. It may drop in 2 or 3 steps before completely seated. Then slide it on the dowels until it seats on the engine. If it doesn't, then the converter is not fully seated.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The pilot generally fits into the flywheel on standard trans cars BUT the early crankshafts have a smaller internal bore than the later 50s engines. The cranks were changed to fit the Ford/Merc-O-Matic installations.

I believe (rotorwrench) has the answer. Walt

[TNDoug]

Just did the same job three weeks ago. I mated the converter to the tranny first making sure the two notches on the converter hub are aligned with the pump. Once everything is aligned you're good to go. Keep us posted on your progress.

[donald1950]

both the motors are 1953 EABs and the crank holes are the same. yes the 49 & 50 the drilled end of the crank is different. both of these cranks are identical. i did trial fit the converter to the new motor and the TC does fit in the crank just like it should.

i will pull the TC and install it on the trans and that should get it going.

i just don't have the stamina that i has when i was 40 and that could also a big contributing factor.......

thank you all for your help, my 71 year old body appreciates all the advice and suggestions.....

[JSeery]

The converter should go into the transmission first. Then the transmission is aligned to the engine and the bolts started. As the transmission is pulled into the engine you have to line the converter studs up with the holes in the flex plate. Tighten the transmission bolts down and then the converter to flex plate bolts.

Note: Be sure the converter sets properly into the transmission and turns freely before you attempt to mount the transmission to the engine. Be sure the converter does not move forward while you are aligning the transmission to the engine. You do not want the converter to move forward until the transmission bolts are tightened on the engine.

It is very difficult to install a transmission without a proper transmission jack. The jack not only supports the weight but allows you to properly align the angle of the transmission to the engine.

[Mart]

^^^ Wise words spoken above.

Mart.

[tinman080]

Donald you need a 16 year old enthusiast to assist you.....

[flatheadmurre]

Here´s a pick of the difference between the cranks.
You need the bigger bore to fit an auto.

[rotorwrench]

The flex plate on the old BW transmissions with the air cooled converter are a lot different than the later round ones. They look more like a rectangular plate than round. A person just needs to clock the two rotating sides correctly before installation. Stabbing the trans onto an engine with the converter bolted to the flex plate would be very difficult. It's difficult enough with the pre-alignment engagement of the converter in the trans. These old machines have a BIG converter and housing to deal with. I don't envy the task for sure.

[Mart]

I used to watch the guys assembling up the transmissions at work. They would have the trans in a stand and position it with the bellhousing uppermost. They would carefully lower the converter in, using small T-bars screwed into the drive lugs on the back of the converter. They would then rotate the converter carefully waiting for the final solid clunk as it dropped into place with all the splines, and most importantly the oil pump drive tangs fully located home.

Bolting it up and trying to run it without everything fully home is a recipe for diasater.

Mart.

[donald1950]

i am using a cherry picker and have a 8" magnetic levels on the dowel shaft and on top of the transmission and can move the cherry picker so the trans is always level with the motor, but i think that a transmission jack could be well worth the investment. i am running errands today and will stop by Northern Tool and see what they have in stock. that would sure make it easier than moving the whole cherry picker slowly...

thanks guys, i really appreciate all the great input... never too old to listen to the experiences of others and learn from their (your) experiences and lessons....

Great group on here ! ! ! !

[Tony, NY]

Can't the TC engagement be verified with a tape measure to the bell housing surface and then compare it to the flex plate to engine measurement? Or is it a different setup?

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by donald1950

...i think that a transmission jack could be well worth the investment...

This is what I bought (on Amazon, good price + free shipping)