239 flathead burning oil

[santino2010]

Hello all I seem to have an issue with my flathead, it seems to burn oil super fast and I've used alot of solutions to try and get the sludge but no help..
I recently opened up the Intake manifold and took up oil pan and found a pretty good amount of sludge as if the car never had an oil change..
Is it possible if I clean as much as I can clean and using some marvel mystery oil ,auto RX auto solution this will help compression thank you20160223_170754.jpg

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[flatheadmurre]

Hate to break the news but cleaning up the interior and using all kinds of marvelous oil additives will not fix the oil comsumption...it will if anything increase it.
Years of carbon deposits in guides taken away gives you more oilconsumption.
If it sat for a while and rings are stuck MMO can solve that and running it will perhaps improve the situation.
What amount of oil does it take ?
Does it smoke bad and how are the plugs looking ?
How is compression ?

[19Fordy]

Oil could be leaking around the valve guides and rings. A rebuild will probably be your next move.

[Mike51Merc]

In a word, NO. Cleaning the sludge will not help oil consumption or restore compression.

In my view, flathead oil consumption has one basic source, and it's the rings. The heads have no oil passages and for the valve guides to leak, the oil has to defy gravity and climb up the valve stems.

[41Joe]

I'm in the same boat. Except I wasn't burning oil that bad, but mine smoke like a chimney and I have low compression. I took my pan off and cleaned out a ton of sludge. The lifter valley has the same amount that I need to clean out. I removed the lifters and most were really tight feeling. So I am replacing the valves and probably the lifters.
Not to hijack this thread, but would it be possible to hone the cylinder walls with the pistons in place and not replace the rings?
Anyways, I am guessing you are having the same problems I have. Since you have it apart maybe a modest "overhaul" can be done.

[corvette8n]

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Originally Posted by 41Joe

Not to hijack this thread, but would it be possible to hone the cylinder walls with the pistons in place and not replace the rings?.

In a word no, you would be making things worse, plus where would all that stone and steel go from honing?. You can re-ring without pulling the motor, drop the pan and remove Pistons,rods, cover the crank with oily shop rags to catch any honing debris. When I did my shoebox Ford, I checked the bores for taper, honed lightly, installed new rings,bearings and was good to go.

[40 Deluxe]

Here's a chance to do an old school repair, just like back in the day: Remove the heads and pan. Check the wear ridge at the top of the cylinder by sliding a fingernail up the side of the cylinder wall. If it catches at the top of the cylinder, you need to cut the ridge out with a 'ridge reamer'. You can probably rent one. Then drop the pan and remove the pistons (if you didn't cut the ridge, the rings will catch and break the ring lands). If any cylinders are gouged or grooved from a broken ring or wrist pin keeper, it's game over. Time for a rebore. Otherwise, I've had good results re-ringing engines with up to 020" wear at the top of the cylinders. Check pistons for cracks, clean the carbon out of the ring grooves, wash off the pistons and install new rings. Visually check the rod bearings for wear (compare the upper and lower inserts; the upper one gets the most wear) and run your finger around the crankshaft journal. If it's smooth and you don't feel a ridge between the two rod surfaces, you're good to go. If the rod bearings look worn, or you're feeling rich, put new ones in. If the crank was reground in the past, the undersize will be stamped on the back of the insert. If the front ands rear main seals were not leaking profusely, leave them and the main bearings alone. This all assume the engine was not knocking, just burning oil.
Next, remove the valve keepers, pull out the valves and clean the carbon off the valves and seats. If a valve is burned, replace it. Otherwise, get some valve grinding compound and a suction cup stick and hand lap the valves (turn the engine so each valve is in its closed position). You want to see an even gray band all around the valve and seat. The clearance won't change enough to worry about adjustment. Reassemble engine.
That is your basic ring and valve job which was very common. Up until quite recently (and still may be), re-rings were available with rings, rod bearings, and gaskets. Ring and valve jobs were often needed at 60-70,000 miles (or sooner) and a cheap repair like this could get another 20-30,000 miles and by then the entire car was worn/rusted out.

[41Joe]

Corvette8n, I figured that was the case.
40 Deluxe, I guess that is what I am going to have to do. I already have the pan dropped. Valves, guides and lifters are out. I bought a ridge reamer and the valve lapping tool with compound. I guess I really didn't want to have to pull the pistons. Oh well, better to do it right than ruin it. The heads are off and the ridge isn't that bad and the cylinder walls are smooth. I feel confident that the block isn't ruined.
This sight is a wealth of good information and helpful people for newbies like me.

[Brian]

'Valves, guides and lifters are out'
Getting those valves out is the biggest part of the job, the rest is easy.

[41Joe]

Originally Posted by Brian

Getting those valves out is the biggest part of the job, the rest is easy.

Agreed! I had a heck of a time getting them free. In the end I used the valve tool which I ordered from Speedway and I used it to lift the spring enough to knock the keepers loose. Oh, the PO had already replaced the valves at some point in this engines life with the one piece guides and adjustable lifters. After the keepers came out, I was able to lift the valve enough to pull it out of the guide. Most of them where really sticky and where hard to come out. After I got those out I heated the springs and twisted and pulled them out. Then I used an old deep socket to pound the guides into the block. Almost all of them where stuck tight in the block.
So at this point I was thinking of buying a brake cylinder honer and cleaning out the guide and lifter bores. I want to also drill that small hole to be able to hold the lifters so they can be adjusted. I already purchased new lifters and valve assemblies.

[41Joe]

I guess Santino2010 to answer your question, even though I am not an expert, doing a block in the car rebuild might be your best bet. In my opinion if you are already tearing the engine apart, you might as well.

[flatheadmurre]

I would pull the engine just to be able to clean everything properly.
Just being able to clean the block real well and all the oil passages in the crank is a good reason to pull the motor.
Cleaning up all the leftovers from an in the car rebuild takes time and you have to make absolutely shure the leftover from breaking the ridges and honing is not left in the motor.
If you start to think about the time it takes to disassemble and clean in the car and what time it takes to pull the motor...
Dont use hones where the guides fit into the block you want a tight fit there, just clean it with a wire brush.

[santino2010]

Thanks everyone for your opinion this is my first time working on a flathead, I am really on a budget so if I can fix it as much as I can without having to rebuild the entire engine it would be best .. I was told that if you change out rings you might as well bore it over.. if I change out the rings would it be a challenge for me?
I don't wanna have to pay someone to do the job for me

[JonC]

40 Deluxe has it right, many motors were rebuilt with the engine cradle feature built right in. Worse yet they were done in the backyard. The only thing is keep everything clean, and cover the crank if your honing cly's. If you can wash everything with hot soapy water and rinse dry and cover with Luberplate Motor assy. lube, put it back together clean, it will run like a top.

[santino2010]

10-4 I assume that this motor has never been rebuilt ,
I will go ahead and get original size rings ...
So I should just Hon it out till I get a smooth surface correct.. I have the manual I can kinda do some studying

[40cpe]

[QUOTE=santino2010;1247938]10-4 I assume that this motor has never been rebuilt ,
I will go ahead and get original size rings ...
/QUOTE]

I would think you would take the heads off and check if the engine has been bored BEFORE ordering rings. The overbore size will be on the piston tops after you clean them well.

[santino2010]

10-4 I will do that thank you...

[Ross F-1]

With that much sludge in the valley and pan, I'd be sorely tempted to yank the engine and have it vatted, the oil passages cleaned, and especially have the crank sludge traps cleaned. Vatting will likely require that the cam bearings be replaced, but that's not that expensive. You can re-use all the other bearings if they are good, and you'll be using modern detergent oils from here out, so no more sludge ever! Good time to replace the cam gear with an aluminum one, too.