The Ford Barn

JAKEFORD · 08-19-2015, 10:05 AM

In my old 53 ford the fuel pump went out in the middle of winter. I removed the pump, left the push rod, made an aluminum plate and mounted the old Bendix fuel pump in the area of the old pump. The lines fit perfectly.

Installed a toggle switch and away I went. This pump worked flawlessly in that location for at least 4 years at which time I sold the car. When a vapor lock was starting you could hear the pump speed up but most of the time it was a gentle tick.

Now since that experience I found out the preferred location for the pump is near the tank so the pump pushes instead of sucks the fuel.

Based on my good experience I am a bit confused.

Comments?

Vic Piano · 08-19-2015, 10:17 AM

I've installed electric fuel pumps in a number of my Flatheads, both 6 and 12 volt. I've always placed the electric pump as close to the gas tank as possible. I would never put an electric fuel pump on top of the intake manifold for a number of reasons, not the least of which would be the heat rising from the intake. I also install additional fuel filters between the gas tank and the electric fuel pump, as well as a fuel pressure regulator (set at 2.5 lbs.) and a 'kill switch'. I've also converted OEM fuel pumps to 'pass through' pumps and mounted them in the stock position, giving an original look to the engine.

deuce_roadster · 08-19-2015, 10:17 AM

The way an electric pump is designed it doesn't suck much but pushes real well. That is why the preferred location is closest to the tank. That is also why most new cars with fuel injection that requires more pressure all have pumps mounted inside the tank.

JSeery · 08-19-2015, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAKEFORD

In my old 53 ford the fuel pump went out in the middle of winter. I removed the pump, left the push rod, made an aluminum plate and mounted the old Bendix fuel pump in the area of the old pump. The lines fit perfectly.

Installed a toggle switch and away I went. This pump worked flawlessly in that location for at least 4 years at which time I sold the car. When a vapor lock was starting you could hear the pump speed up but most of the time it was a gentle tick.

Now since that experience I found out the preferred location for the pump is near the tank so the pump pushes instead of sucks the fuel.

Based on my good experience I am a bit confused.

Comments?

Lucky?

4dFord/SC · 08-19-2015, 10:51 AM

Mine is mounted on the rear cross rail.

Ross F-1 · 08-19-2015, 11:04 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

As long as it is mounted at or below the bottom of the gas tank, you should be OK. It's trying to lift the gas up where pumps have trouble. Being 3 or 4 feet away from the tank won't hurt.

JAKEFORD · 08-19-2015, 11:41 AM

The original pump is intended to suck as the pump on the manifold is higher than the gas tank. I have rebuilt several flathead fuel pumps so am a bit familiar with their design. I also rebuilt this Bendix and its mechanical design is similar to the flathead. I would guess the pump is probably a good foot above the tank

So why shouldn't the Bendix suck similar to the flathead?

I agree that its better to have the pump push as you don't get the effect of vapor pressure and vapor locks but in my case it worked out OK with the electric pump in place of the Ford pump just like Henry designed it.

BTW the toggle switch was very useful to prime the carb for easy starting. It was also the "kill" switch

JSeery · 08-19-2015, 11:54 AM

When your pulling on the fuel you are dropping the pressure on it. If you are raising the level at the same time, that drops the pressure even more. The stock pump also conducts heat into the fuel. I would guess that the pressure drop with the electric pump was about the same as the original, but it was transfering less heat into the fuel. Believe you said it was getting into the vapor lock range because you could detect a sound change in the pump. Vapor lock depends on many factors, the pressure the fuel is seeing (suction, elevation, etc), the actual fuel mixture (different at different times of year or source), engine compartment temp and how much is being transfered to the fuel pump, carb, fuel line, etc. Lots of factors.

Ford Freak · 08-19-2015, 12:05 PM

The previous owner of my '52 F1 mounted a low pressure , electric pump on the firewall . It is probably around 4 ft. from the tank , and around 1ft. or so higher .
I don't know how long it has been on there , but it has worked fine for 2 yrs. now for me . Maybe I'm just lucky ? - F F

Gumpy · 08-19-2015, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic Piano

I've installed electric fuel pumps in a number of my Flatheads, both 6 and 12 volt. I've always placed the electric pump as close to the gas tank as possible. I would never put an electric fuel pump on top of the intake manifold for a number of reasons, not the least of which would be the heat rising from the intake. I also install additional fuel filters between the gas tank and the electric fuel pump, as well as a fuel pressure regulator (set at 2.5 lbs.) and a 'kill switch'. I've also converted OEM fuel pumps to 'pass through' pumps and mounted them in the stock position, giving an original look to the engine.

I have done the same with good results

Ross F-1 · 08-19-2015, 12:16 PM

Is this Bendix pump a diaphragm type, actuated by an electric motor? Diaphragms are much better at sucking than the typical modern electric pump, which are (at the cheap end) just a solenoid-driven piston shuttling back and forth, or (on the high end) a gear-rotor type.

Ford Freak, I changed out the rubber hose into the stock pump on a friend's F-1 and was surprised to have gas pouring out of the end of the steel line. He had about 1/2 tank of gas at the time. There isn't as much lift on trucks with the vertical tanks in the cab, as on cars with a horizontal tank at frame level.

TomT/Williamsburg · 08-19-2015, 12:27 PM

Like Vic, I have installed electric fuel pumps on all my hotrods, flathead or not. I usually set them up on my rear crossmember, and try to make them as easily serviceable and removable as possible. I have always used the electric pumps as a "first start" device, allowing enough fuel to be pushed up through my fuel pump to the carb/carbs. Once started, I turn off the electric pump and run off the stock unit. This is so I do not have to crank the car like crazy before she will start - especially 6-volt cars - after sitting for some time. I also use a cap full of Yamalube to keep the rings free and negate the ethanol issues in old car fuel systems. Boaters use this stuff all the time. Just a capfull every fillup will do ya.

Lately I've been using airtex pumps I think they are called. They seem to last a lot longer than the regular electronic style units from Advance, Napa, etc. I also use a filter between the tank and pump, then one by/at the carb. My flathead carbs I run at 1.5 lbs of pressure with an inline fuel regulator close to the carbs, other carbs I run more between 2.5-3 lbs of pressure or whatever the manufacturer calls for.

There are so many advantages to running one it seems silly not to but that's a personal choice. Vapor lock gets just about everyone from time to time and running a vented cap with an electric fuel pump goes a long way to keeping vapor lock at bay. Just ask Vic! ( just kidding, Vic!)

JAKEFORD · 08-19-2015, 12:55 PM

The old Bendix was a diaphragm pump so that may explain why it worked so well as it was similar to the ford design.

TJ · 08-19-2015, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAKEFORD

The old Bendix was a diaphragm pump so that may explain why it worked so well as it was similar to the ford design.

That's why it eventually failed. This 'corn" gas is hard on the older diaphragm pumps. Get a rotary style pump for a replacement.

BUBBAS IGNITION · 08-19-2015, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic Piano

I've installed electric fuel pumps in a number of my Flatheads, both 6 and 12 volt. I've always placed the electric pump as close to the gas tank as possible. I would never put an electric fuel pump on top of the intake manifold for a number of reasons, not the least of which would be the heat rising from the intake. I also install additional fuel filters between the gas tank and the electric fuel pump, as well as a fuel pressure regulator (set at 2.5 lbs.) and a 'kill switch'. I've also converted OEM fuel pumps to 'pass through' pumps and mounted them in the stock position, giving an original look to the engine.

ditto!!!!!

JAKEFORD · 08-19-2015, 07:57 PM

The old Bendix pump never failed. It worked like a champ all the time that I ran the car. I wished they made a pump like that today.

I used this pump in the 1960's when gas was gas. It ticked away very faithfully and kept the old engine running. When it sped up you knew a vapor lock was there but it quickly quieted down and all was well.

I would buy another if I could. "Modern" designs seemed to have taken over. I bought one at a Model A flea market for 5.00. Guy said he had it in his Chevy hot rod and even had a picture of it. He wanted 25.00 but took 5.00. I hope it works in my garden tractor!

I am not holding my breath!

jerdan · 02-23-2016, 01:44 PM

How do you convert stock pump to a pass through pump?

Bored&Stroked · 02-23-2016, 02:15 PM

Safety: Another thing that isn't a bad idea is to install a safety "roll-over" switch for an electric fuel pump. I know - never had one on any of my cars until I started racing at Bonneville. Makes a lot of sense in that it kills the pump if the car is on it's side or flipped over. Otherwise, it might just keep pumping raw fuel and if there is a fire (or the possibility of one), you'd sure hate to be in trapped in the car, or watch your car go up in an inferno.

Just throwing it out there . . . as something to think about if you're setting up a new system, new wiring, etc..

JSeery · 02-23-2016, 02:19 PM

The older I get the more I think about safety issues, just part of getting old I guess! I run both the impact/roller type switch (I use the Fox Mustang ones) and an oil pressure switch.

Pete · 02-23-2016, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Safety: Another thing that isn't a bad idea is to install a safety "roll-over" switch for an electric fuel pump. I know - never had one on any of my cars until I started racing at Bonneville. Makes a lot of sense in that it kills the pump if the car is on it's side or flipped over. Otherwise, it might just keep pumping raw fuel and if there is a fire (or the possibility of one), you'd sure hate to be in trapped in the car, or watch your car go up in an inferno.

Just throwing it out there . . . as something to think about if you're setting up a new system, new wiring, etc..

I have installed "inertia" switches on several hot rods for customers with electric fuel pumps.
They are required on race cars with electric pumps.
Most modern cars have them.

Bored&Stroked · 02-24-2016, 04:53 AM

The term 'inertia' switch is the correct one - don't know why I used "roll-over". We also used a Fox Mustang switch (was cheap and easy). Essentially there is some sort of weighed "ball" or other mechanism inside the switch. An impact or roll-over condition will jar the ball loose and cut the power to the pump (or any other system that you have on a relay). I'm just happy to say that Pete (up above) hauled some Ass in the car at Bonneville and DIDN'T jar it loose . . . though he gave it a good try!

JSeery · 02-24-2016, 09:27 AM

If anyone doesn't know what they look like and is interested. I also posted a pressure switch photo. Almost all modern cars have them, these are just the ones I am familiar with and have used, very common and easy to get.

30-9 · 02-24-2016, 09:41 AM

Curious how are they connected and where are they connected?

sidevalve8ba · 02-24-2016, 09:43 AM

I prefer the inertia switch over the oil pressure switch for one simple reason. On a cold start I like to flip on the fuel pump switch to build fuel pressure and fill the carburetor float bowls before I pull on the choke or hit the starter button. My engine starts a lot quicker that way. Otherwise you have to crank over the engine long enough to build oil pressure before the pump comes on.

Mike51Merc · 02-24-2016, 10:13 AM

I had a friend who burned out a bunch of pumps in a short time period. Turns out he had installed the pumps on the frame rail under the driver seat. As previously said, these pumps like to push, not pull.

As far as lifting, I like the old Facet (now Purolater) pulse type pumps. They're used on small aircraft if that's any indicator of reliability. The downside is they make some noise but you can only really hear it until the engine starts.

JSeery · 02-24-2016, 10:15 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidevalve8ba

I prefer the inertia switch over the oil pressure switch for one simple reason. On a cold start I like to flip on the fuel pump switch to build fuel pressure and fill the carburetor float bowls before I pull on the choke or hit the starter button. My engine starts a lot quicker that way. Otherwise you have to crank over the engine long enough to build oil pressure before the pump comes on.

The switch does have a by-pass in start so no oil pressure required while turning over the starter. But, I like it wired up so I can manually operate the fuel pump when I want.

The Inertia Switch just wires up inline with the electric fuel pump, very simple. The pressure switch is a little more involved, but not difficult. Here are some 12v neg ground wire diagrams that use a relay (I like relays!). I will draw up some simple diagrams for anyone not interested in the more complicated ones.

BUBBAS IGNITION · 02-24-2016, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

When your pulling on the fuel you are dropping the pressure on it. If you are raising the level at the same time, that drops the pressure even more. The stock pump also conducts heat into the fuel. I would guess that the pressure drop with the electric pump was about the same as the original, but it was transfering less heat into the fuel. Believe you said it was getting into the vapor lock range because you could detect a sound change in the pump. Vapor lock depends on many factors, the pressure the fuel is seeing (suction, elevation, etc), the actual fuel mixture (different at different times of year or source), engine compartment temp and how much is being transfered to the fuel pump, carb, fuel line, etc. Lots of factors.

A thought in regards to vapor lock????? Ever thought that vapor lock must have air in the system to occur???????? No air, no vapor....

Points to ponder......

JSeery · 02-24-2016, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION

A thought in regards to vapor lock????? Ever thought that vapor lock must have air in the system to occur???????? No air, no vapor....

Points to ponder......

Well, interesting point, but I don't think so. Have to think on that one a bit Bubba! A water well will only "pull" water to a specific height (~33.9 feet) for the same reason and then you have to use a "pusher" pump (submergible) or a jet pump. But, can fuel vaporize if there is no space to vaporize into? Not sure how that situation can exist and still be lowering the pressure over the liquid. Now I will be thinking about this all day!

Any practical example of a fuel system where you can pull the fuel through the lines and not have any space for the fuel to vaporize into Bubba?

A bones · 02-24-2016, 11:31 AM

Try this, we don't speak of air but gas, as in gaseous.

Boiling

If a liquid is heated the particles are given more energy and move faster and faster expanding the liquid. The most energetic particles at the surface escape from the surface of the liquid as a vapour as it gets warmer. Liquids evaporate faster as they heat up and more particles have enough energy to break away. The particles need energy to overcome the attractions between them. As the liquid gets warmer more particles have sufficient energy to escape from the liquid. Eventually even particles in the middle of the liquid form bubbles of gas in the liquid. At this point the liquid is boiling and turning to gas. The particles in the gas are the same as they were in the liquid they just have more energy. At normal atmospheric pressure all materials have a specific temperature at which boiling occurs. This is called the "boiling point" or boiling temperature. As with the melting point the boiling point of materials vary widely e.g. nitrogen -210oC, alcohol 78oC, aluminium 459oC.
Any material with a boiling temperature below 20oC is likely to be a gas at room temperature. When liquids boil the particles must have sufficient energy to break away from the liquid and to diffuse through the surrounding air particles. As these particles cool down and lose energy they will condense and turn back to liquid. When steam is formed by water boiling at 100oC the particles quickly condense as the surrounding air temperature is likely to be much less that 100oC so the particles cool rapidly. In fact the "steam" coming out of a boiling kettle can only be seen because some of the gas particles have condensed to form small droplets of water.

That thar Google is amazing.

JSeery · 02-24-2016, 01:43 PM

Good as far as it goes, but pressure is also a factor. Normal "boiling points" are at sea level. As the pressure drops so does the boiling point. At a low enough pressure water will boil at room temperature. One of the big factors in all of this is surface tension on the liquid, it allows the molecules at the surface to break free easier. Bubbas question was (I think) does fuel vaporize as easily if there is not an air/fuel interface for the surface tension factor. I'm not sure, but also not sure it is possible to maintain that condition in an automotive fuel system. It's an interesting question (at least to me it is).

08-19-2015, 10:05 AM	#1
JAKEFORD Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania Posts: 154	Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump In my old 53 ford the fuel pump went out in the middle of winter. I removed the pump, left the push rod, made an aluminum plate and mounted the old Bendix fuel pump in the area of the old pump. The lines fit perfectly. Installed a toggle switch and away I went. This pump worked flawlessly in that location for at least 4 years at which time I sold the car. When a vapor lock was starting you could hear the pump speed up but most of the time it was a gentle tick. Now since that experience I found out the preferred location for the pump is near the tank so the pump pushes instead of sucks the fuel. Based on my good experience I am a bit confused. Comments?

08-19-2015, 10:17 AM	#2
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump I've installed electric fuel pumps in a number of my Flatheads, both 6 and 12 volt. I've always placed the electric pump as close to the gas tank as possible. I would never put an electric fuel pump on top of the intake manifold for a number of reasons, not the least of which would be the heat rising from the intake. I also install additional fuel filters between the gas tank and the electric fuel pump, as well as a fuel pressure regulator (set at 2.5 lbs.) and a 'kill switch'. I've also converted OEM fuel pumps to 'pass through' pumps and mounted them in the stock position, giving an original look to the engine. __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

08-19-2015, 10:17 AM	#3
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump The way an electric pump is designed it doesn't suck much but pushes real well. That is why the preferred location is closest to the tank. That is also why most new cars with fuel injection that requires more pressure all have pumps mounted inside the tank.

08-19-2015, 10:51 AM	#5
4dFord/SC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 1,579	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump Mine is mounted on the rear cross rail.

08-19-2015, 11:04 AM	#6
Ross F-1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NM Posts: 2,438	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) As long as it is mounted at or below the bottom of the gas tank, you should be OK. It's trying to lift the gas up where pumps have trouble. Being 3 or 4 feet away from the tank won't hurt. __________________ '52 F-1, EAB flathead

08-19-2015, 11:41 AM	#7
JAKEFORD Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania Posts: 154	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump The original pump is intended to suck as the pump on the manifold is higher than the gas tank. I have rebuilt several flathead fuel pumps so am a bit familiar with their design. I also rebuilt this Bendix and its mechanical design is similar to the flathead. I would guess the pump is probably a good foot above the tank So why shouldn't the Bendix suck similar to the flathead? I agree that its better to have the pump push as you don't get the effect of vapor pressure and vapor locks but in my case it worked out OK with the electric pump in place of the Ford pump just like Henry designed it. BTW the toggle switch was very useful to prime the carb for easy starting. It was also the "kill" switch

08-19-2015, 11:54 AM	#8
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump When your pulling on the fuel you are dropping the pressure on it. If you are raising the level at the same time, that drops the pressure even more. The stock pump also conducts heat into the fuel. I would guess that the pressure drop with the electric pump was about the same as the original, but it was transfering less heat into the fuel. Believe you said it was getting into the vapor lock range because you could detect a sound change in the pump. Vapor lock depends on many factors, the pressure the fuel is seeing (suction, elevation, etc), the actual fuel mixture (different at different times of year or source), engine compartment temp and how much is being transfered to the fuel pump, carb, fuel line, etc. Lots of factors.

08-19-2015, 12:05 PM	#9
Ford Freak Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Pittsford NY. USA Posts: 1,096	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump The previous owner of my '52 F1 mounted a low pressure , electric pump on the firewall . It is probably around 4 ft. from the tank , and around 1ft. or so higher . I don't know how long it has been on there , but it has worked fine for 2 yrs. now for me . Maybe I'm just lucky ? - F F

08-19-2015, 12:16 PM	#11
Ross F-1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NM Posts: 2,438	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump Is this Bendix pump a diaphragm type, actuated by an electric motor? Diaphragms are much better at sucking than the typical modern electric pump, which are (at the cheap end) just a solenoid-driven piston shuttling back and forth, or (on the high end) a gear-rotor type. Ford Freak, I changed out the rubber hose into the stock pump on a friend's F-1 and was surprised to have gas pouring out of the end of the steel line. He had about 1/2 tank of gas at the time. There isn't as much lift on trucks with the vertical tanks in the cab, as on cars with a horizontal tank at frame level. __________________ '52 F-1, EAB flathead Last edited by Ross F-1; 08-19-2015 at 04:21 PM.

08-19-2015, 12:27 PM	#12
TomT/Williamsburg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Williamsburg, Virginia Posts: 2,654	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump Like Vic, I have installed electric fuel pumps on all my hotrods, flathead or not. I usually set them up on my rear crossmember, and try to make them as easily serviceable and removable as possible. I have always used the electric pumps as a "first start" device, allowing enough fuel to be pushed up through my fuel pump to the carb/carbs. Once started, I turn off the electric pump and run off the stock unit. This is so I do not have to crank the car like crazy before she will start - especially 6-volt cars - after sitting for some time. I also use a cap full of Yamalube to keep the rings free and negate the ethanol issues in old car fuel systems. Boaters use this stuff all the time. Just a capfull every fillup will do ya. Lately I've been using airtex pumps I think they are called. They seem to last a lot longer than the regular electronic style units from Advance, Napa, etc. I also use a filter between the tank and pump, then one by/at the carb. My flathead carbs I run at 1.5 lbs of pressure with an inline fuel regulator close to the carbs, other carbs I run more between 2.5-3 lbs of pressure or whatever the manufacturer calls for. There are so many advantages to running one it seems silly not to but that's a personal choice. Vapor lock gets just about everyone from time to time and running a vented cap with an electric fuel pump goes a long way to keeping vapor lock at bay. Just ask Vic! ( just kidding, Vic!)

08-19-2015, 12:55 PM	#13
JAKEFORD Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania Posts: 154	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump The old Bendix was a diaphragm pump so that may explain why it worked so well as it was similar to the ford design.

08-19-2015, 07:57 PM	#16
JAKEFORD Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania Posts: 154	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump The old Bendix pump never failed. It worked like a champ all the time that I ran the car. I wished they made a pump like that today. I used this pump in the 1960's when gas was gas. It ticked away very faithfully and kept the old engine running. When it sped up you knew a vapor lock was there but it quickly quieted down and all was well. I would buy another if I could. "Modern" designs seemed to have taken over. I bought one at a Model A flea market for 5.00. Guy said he had it in his Chevy hot rod and even had a picture of it. He wanted 25.00 but took 5.00. I hope it works in my garden tractor! I am not holding my breath!

02-23-2016, 01:44 PM	#17
jerdan Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 60	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump How do you convert stock pump to a pass through pump?

02-23-2016, 02:15 PM	#18
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,064	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump Safety: Another thing that isn't a bad idea is to install a safety "roll-over" switch for an electric fuel pump. I know - never had one on any of my cars until I started racing at Bonneville. Makes a lot of sense in that it kills the pump if the car is on it's side or flipped over. Otherwise, it might just keep pumping raw fuel and if there is a fire (or the possibility of one), you'd sure hate to be in trapped in the car, or watch your car go up in an inferno. Just throwing it out there . . . as something to think about if you're setting up a new system, new wiring, etc..

02-23-2016, 02:19 PM	#19
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump The older I get the more I think about safety issues, just part of getting old I guess! I run both the impact/roller type switch (I use the Fox Mustang ones) and an oil pressure switch.

02-24-2016, 04:53 AM	#21
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,064	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump The term 'inertia' switch is the correct one - don't know why I used "roll-over". We also used a Fox Mustang switch (was cheap and easy). Essentially there is some sort of weighed "ball" or other mechanism inside the switch. An impact or roll-over condition will jar the ball loose and cut the power to the pump (or any other system that you have on a relay). I'm just happy to say that Pete (up above) hauled some Ass in the car at Bonneville and DIDN'T jar it loose . . . though he gave it a good try!

02-24-2016, 09:41 AM	#23
30-9 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: MA Posts: 888	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump Curious how are they connected and where are they connected? __________________ Thanks - 30-9 1939, 1940

02-24-2016, 09:43 AM	#24
sidevalve8ba Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Harrisonburg, VA Posts: 842	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump I prefer the inertia switch over the oil pressure switch for one simple reason. On a cold start I like to flip on the fuel pump switch to build fuel pressure and fill the carburetor float bowls before I pull on the choke or hit the starter button. My engine starts a lot quicker that way. Otherwise you have to crank over the engine long enough to build oil pressure before the pump comes on. Last edited by sidevalve8ba; 02-24-2016 at 11:43 AM.

02-24-2016, 10:13 AM	#25
Mike51Merc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,582	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump I had a friend who burned out a bunch of pumps in a short time period. Turns out he had installed the pumps on the frame rail under the driver seat. As previously said, these pumps like to push, not pull. As far as lifting, I like the old Facet (now Purolater) pulse type pumps. They're used on small aircraft if that's any indicator of reliability. The downside is they make some noise but you can only really hear it until the engine starts. Last edited by Mike51Merc; 02-24-2016 at 10:28 AM.

02-24-2016, 11:31 AM	#29
A bones Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: CLAYTON DE Posts: 1,283	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump Try this, we don't speak of air but gas, as in gaseous. Boiling If a liquid is heated the particles are given more energy and move faster and faster expanding the liquid. The most energetic particles at the surface escape from the surface of the liquid as a vapour as it gets warmer. Liquids evaporate faster as they heat up and more particles have enough energy to break away. The particles need energy to overcome the attractions between them. As the liquid gets warmer more particles have sufficient energy to escape from the liquid. Eventually even particles in the middle of the liquid form bubbles of gas in the liquid. At this point the liquid is boiling and turning to gas. The particles in the gas are the same as they were in the liquid they just have more energy. At normal atmospheric pressure all materials have a specific temperature at which boiling occurs. This is called the "boiling point" or boiling temperature. As with the melting point the boiling point of materials vary widely e.g. nitrogen -210oC, alcohol 78oC, aluminium 459oC. Any material with a boiling temperature below 20oC is likely to be a gas at room temperature. When liquids boil the particles must have sufficient energy to break away from the liquid and to diffuse through the surrounding air particles. As these particles cool down and lose energy they will condense and turn back to liquid. When steam is formed by water boiling at 100oC the particles quickly condense as the surrounding air temperature is likely to be much less that 100oC so the particles cool rapidly. In fact the "steam" coming out of a boiling kettle can only be seen because some of the gas particles have condensed to form small droplets of water. That thar Google is amazing. __________________ Enjoy yer day. Tom Hate can't fix what it started.

02-24-2016, 01:43 PM	#30
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Best Place for Electric Fuel Pump Good as far as it goes, but pressure is also a factor. Normal "boiling points" are at sea level. As the pressure drops so does the boiling point. At a low enough pressure water will boil at room temperature. One of the big factors in all of this is surface tension on the liquid, it allows the molecules at the surface to break free easier. Bubbas question was (I think) does fuel vaporize as easily if there is not an air/fuel interface for the surface tension factor. I'm not sure, but also not sure it is possible to maintain that condition in an automotive fuel system. It's an interesting question (at least to me it is).