Time for a brake job

[Chris H]

I have been putting this off too long, but it is time to bite the bullet. I have been going thru the supplier catalogs to see what all I may need. I am pretty certain I will need new drums, so I am planning on that expense. This is not a fine point car by any means, but do like to keep things as Ford intended. That said, I have been wondering about the Flat Head Ted brake floater kit. Good idea or not? How much work are they to install? Does it really help? Am I better off rebuilding as stock?
I have Les Andrews handbook #1 as a reference. Is there a better manual for this job? Is there a preferred parts source for brake parts? ( I usually buy from Brattons, Mikes, and Snyders). Is there a good source for the drums? I see that Brattons will arch the shoes to the drums, as I have been unable to find anyone locally to do that.
I know, lots of questions, and I am sure there will be more before it is all said and done. Any advise on things to watch out for would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

TIP: When I do a brake job on something I'm not too familiar with, I like, do the R/F & leave the L/F assembled, then I have it to refer to, in case of questions on re-assembly order??
Bill W.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

TIP: When I do a brake job on something I'm not too familiar with, I like, do the R/F & leave the L/F assembled, then I have it to refer to, in case of questions on re-assembly order??
Bill W.

we call that here in our shop the PEPBOYS SHUFFLE

[Tacoma Bob]

Plan on spending time and money and read,read,read. Don't skimp anywhere during the process. You want NO slop anywhere.. Your reward will be safe brakes. There are currently China made brakes at reduced cost and many of the guys like them. Your choice of vendors are my favs and when doing my brakes those are the companies I used. Too bad you can't find a local old fashion clutch and brake reline company.

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

TIP: When I do a brake job on something I'm not too familiar with, I like, do the R/F & leave the L/F assembled, then I have it to refer to, in case of questions on re-assembly order??
Bill W.

Makes a lot of sense! Wayne

[KGBnut]

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My brakes are completely stock, and it stops great. I have no experience with the floater.

The one thing that I would recommend is don't go spending money on parts until you open things up and inspect the whole shebang. I hate when I spend money only to find out that my original parts are in good shape and better quality.

On mine, I ended up only replacing a few springs, and one of the adjuster cones.

Good luck,

Ken

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

we call that here in our shop the PEPBOYS SHUFFLE

YES, SA, BUT I'll have thet PEP BOYS smile whin I finally go to the BANK!!---It's been TOO DANGED HOT to go out
Dad (SA) W.

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

TIP: When I do a brake job on something I'm not too familiar with, I like, do the R/F & leave the L/F assembled, then I have it to refer to, in case of questions on re-assembly order??
Bill W.

And take pictures. Digital cameras are a fantastic tool to help you 'remember'.

I just replaced the brake shoes on my Town Sedan. It had a lot of brake fade. The shoes on it where in good shape but had the molded linings. Go with the woven linings. My car stops much better with just this change.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder

And take pictures. Digital cameras are a fantastic tool to help you 'remember'.

I just replaced the brake shoes on my Town Sedan. It had a lot of brake fade. It shoes on it where in good shape but had the molded linings. Go with the woven linings. My car stops much better with just this change.

ESPECIALLY of spring orientation and pin head orientation. never have too many pics from multiple angles...

but yes i agree, take them apart first, see whats worn, and buy whats nescessary.

if you want your shoes relined most big rigs still use riveted linings and reline them all the time. Im sure there is a truck repair shop near you that you can call and ask if they know anyone who relines brake shoes. Local one by me even had a book from 1933 stating what thickness/ width/and rivet size to use on my 29 AA brake shoes!

[Synchro909]

I agree with what has been said about staying away from moulded (called bonded here) brake shoes. Rivet, don't bond woven linings if you want them to work. I'll be replacing my bonded linings with woven ones as soon as they arrive from US. They have been held up by the strike at the wharves on the west coast. I have CI drums on the front and bee putting them on the back as well at the same time.
I have a good engine and figure that if I have lots of go, I want lots of Whoa!

[1931 flamingo]

Mitch: I used to call it "polish blueprint". No offense to anyone meant.

For ted's floaters to work correctly the orig brakes need to be rebuilt first then add ted's kit. JMO
Paul in CT

[Tim B.]

Excellent advice from Bill & all. If you take pictures be careful of what you are taking a picture of. When I did my brakes ,among other things, I found the service brake roller pins and the emergency brake carrier pins installed backwards on one side and correct on the other.

If you don't have it I've found Les Andrews' book to be a great guide to help understand what is needed to be done and what to look for. Well worth the money for the time it's saved me. It's also a good time to inspect and grease wheel bearings so leave a little extra in the budget for the unknowns. Tim

[Chris H]

Thanks all for the advice. I had not thought of Bill's method, but seems like a good idea. Taking plenty of pictures is my usual method anyway. I have been putting together a worst case budget, but was not planning on buying much until I find out what is really needed. Thanks for the replies, I am sure I will have more questions as I go along.

[Kevin in NJ]

Ted's kit is not needed.

What is needed is a full return of the parts to factory. What people need to understand is the brake system was designed to .001" accuracy. This is based on what I was told by someone who looked through the factory prints. He said they showed shoes fitted to .001" tolerances. He was shocked at the level of detail Ford had in the prints.

A lot of manuals discuss using the old wedges. Bratton's and such have good quality units it is not wise to use the old stuff.

Your goal is to have both sides move the shoes out at the same rate. Kind of hard to do that with unknown wear on used wedges and such. So lots of new parts are needed.

Your big goal is to have the shoes arched to a slightly smaller diameter then the drums and exactly centered when adjusted to just fit without drag. Bear in mind that adjusting the brakes effectively moves the center of the shoes.

There are small details you need to keep in mind. Like the pins are a snug fit in the shoes, they should not turn. The adjusting pins are usually loose on the shoe. They need to be squeezed with a vice to be snug. This keeps the shoes from moving up and down relative to the backing plate.

To get my brakes right I have some special tools which were not easy or cheap to acquire. My brother and I like to do stuff ourselves to ensure quality. I believe paying some one to make matched pair of drums to backing plates ready to go is likely a effective solution though not cheap. Really, doing brakes right on the A is not cheap and is worth every penny as it is likely a one time cost for a life time of stopping great.

Ted's kit really kind of bandaids for not having the right tools an knowledge to the brakes right. While a lot of people say they have helped a lot, the truth is we do not know exactly how they have done their brakes. I know Brent Terry will not do Ted's floaters at his shop, he will only do the brakes back to factory.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

We can EASILY drop a GRAND into a brake job!!! When I buy a Model A, I just assume that it has had numerous "QUICKIE" brake jobs over its life span & probably a LOTS of various small brake parts are WORN OUT!!!
With NO written or documented history on Vermin, I LUCKED OUT. He has .010 oversize STEEL drums, perfect fitting woven lining, all small parts look NEW!! Looks as if he has only had 27 STOPS. Restoration on the car was done around 1986, as witnessed by the rebuilders' plaque on the engine block--Runs like a SEWING MACHINE! Shocks & springs look NEW & he has hub caps frum ARGENTINA. Fortunately, he came with LOTS of OLD PICS, so I can "make up" his MOST INTERESTING HISTORY---LOL
Bill W.

[wmws]

Ted's breaks work on the double leading shoe principal. Much more effective than just one leading shoe. They work.

[larrys40]

I agree with Kevin post and advice and concur. I have done many brake jobs as they are one of my forte's.... I have taken off the floaters on cars and put them back to original, and with everything "restored" correctly, centered, and adjusted right with good drums ( cast are preferrable) it will stop on a dime. It is my experience that many folks put the floaters on but are actually masking and not correcting the problem (s) that make them stop poorly. Be careful looking at web "youtube" videos and things on the web for adjustment. Most of them are incorrect and terrible. I can't believe some have so many hits on them.

The It is imperative that shoe rollers/anchors/pins/wedges, good quality springs bushings,shafts,levers, pins all be restored or replaced with high quality reproductions.
And... that all shoes be fit and arced to drums and centered with a centering gauge on the backing plate. A comprehensive brake job is a minimum 30 -40 hour job and maybe more for some.

Larry Shepard

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by larrys40

...back to original, and with everything "restored" correctly, centered, and adjusted right with good drums ( cast are preferable)...

I find it amusing that some suggest "everything original", but will recommend something that is NOT original.

[Chris H]

Thanks again. I was just wondering about the floaters, but was skeptical. I was not planning on using them but figured I should ask first. Before plunging into this job head first.
Larry, we have met before. I live just across the two rivers from you. I am a member of the Mo. Valley Reigon, but seldome can make the meetings.
I know this is going to be expensive and will take time. Heck I may not even complete it this summer. But that said, I figure it doesn't take any more time to do it right the first time than it would to do it half way twice
I am also assuming that doing one axle at a time is not an acceptable alternative. That I should rebuild the entire brake system at the same time.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Chris H

Thanks again. I was just wondering about the floaters, but was skeptical. I was not planning on using them but figured I should ask first. Before plunging into this job head first.
Larry, we have met before. I live just across the two rivers from you. I am a member of the Mo. Valley Reigon, but seldome can make the meetings.
I know this is going to be expensive and will take time. Heck I may not even complete it this summer. But that said, I figure it doesn't take any more time to do it right the first time than it would to do it half way twice
I am also assuming that doing one axle at a time is not an acceptable alternative. That I should rebuild the entire brake system at the same time.

correct one is dependent on the other ,, do it all at once so you dont have uneven braking
this is especially important on a mechanical brake system