title problem

[grey46]

I bought a 1929 Ford Coupe with a clear current Tenn. title When I tried to get it in my name in Illinois after 3 months they said the vin on the Tenn title is for a 30 not a 29 and now are telling me I will have to do a bonded title . The Tenn title has it as a 1929 Ford Coupe with vin # A4140858 can someone tell me if that is a 30 or 29 vin number. Illinois is broke and they are now pulling every title on cars 25 years or older,they already have all the fee's for the title app,but if I have to get a bonded title they will get all the fees again,I think its just a money making scam by the state,any way if some one can tell me if its a 29 or 30 vin it would be a huge help. Thanks in advance and heres my email ([email protected])

[Mike V. Florida]

Smart DMV, the engine was produced in November 1930.

As a matter of fact, Engine #4140858 was made on Nov 17, 1930

[Stick Shift]

3 months? I just did my 28 and I am very nervous about what the future will be for an IL title on this car. I have heard of so many problems that is getting ridiculous what we got to go through.

[Tom Wesenberg]

If you have to do a bonded title, then you should be able to keep the old title, so you can sell it on ebay for big bucks. I had to do 2 bonded titles for 2 of my Model A's and it cost me $500, took 18 months and involved making several trips back and forth between the bonding company and the DMV.

You might try a small town DMV. I've heard guys around here have better luck with them.

[82B in WA]

Is the serial number (VIN #) on the engine or frame or both. The Vin number you listed is for a November 1930 Model A. Throughout the years it was pretty much a standard practice to change an engine and have the title changed to match the newly installed engine. In my state, at one time they only listed the engine number on the title. For an example, i have a late 1931 Pickup with a serial number of 1929 and I also have an older title for this vehicle thea dates back to around 1950 where it listed this serial number only as the engine number without a VIN number.
We do have some understanding folks in out DOV Licensing but I have not yet went in and had it corrected. They may ask me to lift the cab to review the chassis serial number and after spending 4 years restoring it, I am not willing to do so at this time. I guess I am fortunate as I still have the older serial numbered block, which is no good but kept it just for that reason. Good luck, Dick B.

[1931 flamingo]

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Luckily when I recently registered my 31 with a current valid MA title, the "gentleman" at DMV came out to do VIN verification (late 31, indented, eng built 4-1-31), he asked "Where is it?". Over the years I've come across some real prxxks at CT DMV, so was a little anxious this time, but e/thing went well. Just my experience.
Paul in CT

[allen]

If the title has 29 on it then it is a 29, i dint care about the motor, my 29 has my own made number, and its title 29, You need to fight this call you state capital ,and talk to title division what they are doing is wrong, if this is the case ever one who has install a new motor in there car needs to go back and bond the unit, crazy, Three times i call the capital down here three times i won and got my title , you need to call armed look up you state dmv laws, look into vintage not new cars here where i won, they treat old cars like new and the rule do not apply, example is the vin number not 17 like all new cars, the tenth digit gives and car motorcycle its year, US law not state, this is just one thing why you can not go by motor numbers, Pull you pants up, get a cup of coffee, charge your phone up and go to work, the law is on your side, sick them

[Cool Hand Lurker]

This is why you should never change the number on the title. When the vehicle left the factory the motor and frame numbers matched and this was the number of the completed vehicle that went on the title. From that point on the motor is only a part of the vehicle. Treat it like a part. If it is replaced with a used motor from another car then change the number on the motor to match the vehicle number on the title. Keep the old block so nobody else can put it in their car and use that number for title purposes.

Now somebody will chime in here and say that changing the motor number is altering the serial number of the car and therefore illegal. Wrong. The serial number of the car is the original number of the vehicle as was on the original title. Leave the title alone, make the replacement part (motor) match the vehicle/title number or leave it blank and rely on the frame number alone. You can stamp a duplicate on a crossmember for ease of viewing, but if the DMV ever wants to see the number on the original location then jack up the body and show it to them.

This keeps the original correct number assigned to the total vehicle and greatly simplifies things when dealing with the DMV people.

[CWPASADENA]

This is getting to be more of a problem with computerized records.

It is too bad that Henry did not stamp the Frame Numbers on the Model A where they can be seen when the car is assembled. For many years, a lot of Model A's were re-registered with the number that was on the engine when the old paper work and title was lost and often times the engine had already been replaced and had a number that was different from the frame numbers. Starting in '32, the frame number was visable and the "engine" number was stamped on the flywheel housing on the 4 Cyl cars and the transmission case on the V-8 Cars. If the engine was replaced, the numbers were not lost or screwed up.

Good Luck!

Chris

[grey46]

I have a friend that got a 29 sedan 2 weeks after I got mine ,been almost 3 months and has heard nuthing,you will love the one and only lady that handels this . Your title will end up in Mt Vernon Illinois on her desk. Good Luck.

[grey46]

Things have dramaticaly changed in Illinois ,I called everywhere for 3 weeks and all I got was "They" said to pull all old titles out of the system. They now end up in Mt Vernon Illinois on one lady's desk and she is the title god ,whatever she decides is the way it go's and seemingly you have no recourse except how she decides its gonna be.

[roccaas]

I saw in this month's "Hemmings Classic Cars" a service to register your car in Montana. Could this be the future, "States of Convenience" like "Flags of Convenience" in shipping.

Luckily in GA we register under whatever number is on the engine and no title is issued.

[Rowdy]

The bonded title here only took about 2 weeks after I started the proccess and was with all expenses figured $185. I wanted to get it while it was still unrestored so the bond was not too high. I likely would have gone through a title service if I would not have wanted to substantiate its local herritage. Rod

[sonny30coupe]

Frank the Plumber is right on the title issue. If there 2 of them you are screwed. I dont understand how people buy titles and then dont run into problem with them later if the car was already licensed in another state.

[Rowdy]

I have to agree here. Let the proccess play itself out. With conflicting title laws state to state there are sometimes bound to be problems. One state will requuire it to be the engine # and the next state will require it to be the frame # and another may issue you a tag to put on the door jamb or firewall. Titles for older cars can get to be a mess. I hightly doubt all of the states will ever get together and procede to make them uniform. I am glad the delivery has matchiing #'s. Rod

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Frank The Plumber

...your numbers are not all clear, you have a title, you have a vehicle with numbers, do they match?
.

Frank, if you re-read the original post, his numbers DO match the title "The Tenn title has it as a 1929 Ford Coupe with vin # A4140858" "When I tried to get it in my name in Illinois after 3 months they said the vin on the Tenn title is for a 30 not a 29"

The trouble is that the DMV says the title from Tenn is wrong and the will not honor it.

It appears that someone in the past changed the motor and had it retitled with the new number, exactly what most people think you should do when you change the motor. Look where it got him!!

[Tom Wesenberg]

Yep, that's why it's so good to keep the original engine with the car, even if it takes resleeving to use it.

[MikeK]

If you ever swap engines, or get down to the frame
and the numbers don't match your title, Wire Paladin.

[Rowdy]

Unfortunately this is not standard state to state. Law here requires that if you change the engine you then have to gat an "Assembled Vehicle Title". Too me as long as it is is the same size as the original and not a SBC or something like that, what does it really matter to the state, other than the fact they use the engine # as the VIN. I think an assigned stamped plate would be a better fix to the situation. Rod

[grey46]

Frank
First let me thank you for your concern over my emotional state as you have mentioned it in each of your posts. Im 63 years old and have a pretty good idea on how to communicate with the powers that be,and have been more than civil and gracious with all state people Ive talked to,and rest assured Im not as frustrated as you seem to think nor am I pizzy. I am also more than willing to provide any information you might want and can post as often as you would like . I havent seen any real advice or help other than I need to calm down ,get a grip ,etc. My original post only asked for the Vin info and I was relating my story as I would in a friends garage ,of course Im not happy, I dont think thats any differant then anyone would feel. Mike was correct in saying the motor probably got switched at some point and the title was updated,obviously not a good plan as it turns out . But I think Illinois is using any thing they can find to make us get bonded titles,they not only hold the bond money for 3 years ,but get additional tax money and all application fees a second time .Plus at some point I imagine they will want to see the numbers on the frame which as you know will involve at least lifting the body not a pleasent prospect as the car is completely assembled at this time. Thanks for your concern and help. Respectfully Doug