burlington crank

[earbleeder]

Does anyone know of any distributor that still has Burlington counterbalanced cranks on the shelf or Scat the only one out there now?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

There very well may be one hidden out there that is available but most of us have used them up. Scat is pretty much the show now. Rich Fallucia would be the only possibility I could think of.

[Pete]

There's always Crower or Moldex.

[earbleeder]

Rich has 6 but won't sell outright.

[J and M Machine]

We have two left: and guess what they are for sale.
Let us know if you're interested.
[email protected]

[JohnLaVoy]

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Snyder's has them listed in the catalogue.

[earbleeder]

Snyder's does not have any more Burlingtons, only Scat.

[Rex_A_Lott]

Originally Posted by Pete

There's always Crower or Moldex.

Are you just funning us? Did they really make A and/or B model cranks?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Rex_A_Lott

Are you just funning us? Did they really make A and/or B model cranks?

Dead serious.
There are quite a few running in vintage race engines.
They will make a crank for any engine you can come up with.

[colin1928]

I also have a Moldex crank it is 1 of the best made cranks I have seen

[Pete]

Originally Posted by colin1928

I also have a Moldex crank it is 1 of the best made cranks I have seen

Roger on that.
We are running a Crower in our flathead Cadillac powered Bonneville car.
It is the same quality.

[Rex_A_Lott]

Originally Posted by colin1928

I also have a Moldex crank it is 1 of the best made cranks I have seen

Moldex has been around for a while....I remember when most folks around here considered the top of the line to be Moldex and Hank the Crank. I remember Crower cams back then, but didnt hear about their cranks until later. Maybe I just didnt know.
I guess with everything being CNC now, its not as big of a thing to whittle out a billet crank as it once was, although I imagine it still takes quite a few pictures of dead presidents to cover anything other than a standard run-of-the-mill SBC.
I'll be the first to admit I can be narrow-minded about using modern technology on the old stuff...Thanks Pete for pointing out there are other options than those we hear about all the time....as long as you have the dust to cover it.

[J and M Machine]

Just in case anyone sees this post. Both cranks have been sold.

[Kurt in NJ]

Rich had a sign up at Hershey that he still had some, and he says that someone bought the rights to make and sell them, and Rich will soon have pistons taking modern rings, and modern design (like the chevy pistons but not needing special rods)

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

Rich had a sign up at Hershey that he still had some, and he says that someone bought the rights to make and sell them, and Rich will soon have pistons taking modern rings, and modern design (like the chevy pistons but not needing special rods)

I'm pretty sure Rich is saving those Burlington for his own rebuilt engines and are not for re-sale outright. Did he tell you differently??

As for the rights, yes we spoke about that earlier here and it is a guy from Texas however according to my source from someone I would say is 'in the know', at best it was going to be at least a year before they would be for sale, --if then.

Rich is saying by the end of the year he is hoping to have that new piston ready to ship. There is a couple of issues they are working through on the wrist pin but he says it will be top-notch when it goes to market. I inspected it and am super excited to see it first-hand.

[Kurt in NJ]

He had a sign ---"I still have Burlington cranks" it didn't say that he was only selling with engine, but I didn't ask

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Ohh OK, I understand now. I'm pretty sure his booth was promoting his engine rebuilding services ...and not parts sales.

[CarlG]

What with Tod's block & Head, Bill Stipe's camshaft, Rich's Pistons & Rods, Burlington Crank (whenever they are made again), Dan's timing & Crank gears, Stainless valves, One piece guides, adjustable lifters, etc, etc . . .

Now if someone would just offer a complete long block

Then there's Rupert's water pump, Berg's radiator, Stipe's oil pump, Mike's oil filter, (and on, and on) ...

Got just about everything covered.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by CarlG

What with Tod's block & Head, Bill Stipe's camshaft, Rich's Pistons & Rods, Burlington Crank (whenever they are made again), Dan's timing & Crank gears, Stainless valves, One piece guides, adjustable lifters, etc, etc . . .

Now if someone would just offer a complete long block

Then there's Rupert's water pump, Berg's radiator, Stipe's oil pump, Mike's oil filter, (and on, and on) ...

Got just about everything covered.

Hey Carl,
Well not quite everything....how about Winfields crank balancer and and carbs and Williamsons 32 lb flywheel and Crower rods

[31 RPU]

Rich told me he only sells the cranks with a rebuild. $500 more and he will add the crank.

[diomed]

Anybody know why they stopped making the Burlington cranks? Not profitable? At $975, I would think every "A" engine rebuild would've had one standard. I was trying to buy one, then saw they were discontinued. Maybe they were too cheap!

[[email protected]]

Good news! Burlington cranks are still active and in production ~ next available shipment due in March 2015.
Watch for updated posts in coming days.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Good news! Burlington cranks are still active and in production ~ next available shipment due in March 2015.
Watch for updated posts in coming days.

Well, I think that is great news.

The website still refers back to Chris' old info and such though. Are you going to do a press release as I have heard conflicting information regarding them. Two sources said the original company would not (be) make them any longer, ...and then I received a phone call last week that said same company, same machines, same everything was making them, --and 400 of them were in-transit right now. If they are in transit, 90 days seems like a long time to get them from China to Texas. Can you expound on that a little more??

[Rowdy]

I would like to know also. Hoping all of the info is announced soon. Rod

[M2M]

Burlington are back in town??? Great news and just before Christmas!

[1931 flamingo]

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His first post here and nothing in his profile??
Paul in CT

[jallison15]

Burlington crank shafts have been out of production for several months but will be available soon!
We anticipate cranks will be available in March 2015.
Website is under RE-construction; in the meantime please email me at [email protected]
Look forward to hearing from you!

[jallison15]

To elaborate on time frame of delivery ~ forging ordered takes 95 days for completion, 4-6 weeks ocean shipping to Texas. Cranks to be shipped over Christmas holidays. Upon arrival we will quality test each crank prior to distribution.

[Mike V. Florida]

Jallison15, Thank you for taking the time to update!

[diomed]

I just bought a Scat last week. It's all about timing, I suppose.

[colin1928]

I am wondering about cost to the end user (us) and sales network

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by diomed

I just bought a Scat last week. It's all about timing, I suppose.

Having been a former dealer for both Burlington, and now Scat, based on what I have seen to-date, there appears to be a reason why the Scat costs a little more. The truth is I will probably order a new Burlington and do a side-by-side comparison of the two just so I can determine which is a better value for me and my shop's customers. I have a saying around my shop that says "It doesn't have to be Perfect when Good is good enuf! ...and this very well may apply to the Burlington vs. Scat crank comparison. Yes, the Scat appears to be beefier and more "jewelry-like" than the old Burlington was, but maybe all of that is not necessary for many miles of trouble-free touring.

[JohnLaVoy]

I spoke with the "new" Burlington Crank people over the weekend. They purchased the molds and name from Chris Robinson and have had run manufactured. They are expecting delivery from China next month. They will have some other production stuff to do, boxing etc. before they are ready to ship. The target is March for shipments. At this time they don't know what their costs will be for a delivered product so can't quote a sale price. They plan on going through normal distribution for sales, along with direct selling. As I hear more I will pass it along. I am waiting to see what these look like and am excited to see what Brent's side by side evaluation is. I concur with his take on the SCAT after they showed it to me at SEMA.

[M2M]

Another factor to consider in the SCAT vs Burlington battle is quality.

A monopoly is always bad news for consumers. Burlington's exit may help explain why SCAT crank prices are up nearly 50% since their release in 2011 and why they've dropped the ball on quality control, see:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1418918286

At least SCAT was "man" enough to own up, take responsibility and make things right. Nevertheless, it would be a major headache to end up with a defective crank for a customer in Australia or Europe. If as a company you're going to boast about having your cranks machined in the USA then get it right, otherwise have them machined in China (the place the cranks are forged) and pass on the cost saving.

I would suggest to Burlington to also look at making a Model T crank as there are many potential customers there. And of course don't cut corners on quality and quality control, but do offer great customer service such as replying to customer feedback; something else that SCAT seems to have a problem with.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by M2M

Another factor to consider in the SCAT vs Burlington battle is quality.

A monopoly is always bad news for consumers. Burlington's exit may help explain why SCAT crank prices are up nearly 50% since their release in 2011 and why they've dropped the ball on quality control, see:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1418918286

At least SCAT was "man" enough to own up, take responsibility and make things right. Nevertheless, it would be a major headache to end up with a defective crank for a customer in Australia or Europe. If as a company you're going to boast about having your cranks machined in the USA then get it right, otherwise have them machined in China (the place the cranks are forged) and pass on the cost saving.

I would suggest to Burlington to also look at making a Model T crank as there are many potential customers there. And of course don't cut corners on quality and quality control, but do offer great customer service such as replying to customer feedback; something else that SCAT seems to have a problem with.

"Dropped the ball on quality control"? REALLY???

I will talk with Brian McCullough as soon as they open this AM to find out the truth in that situation (whether there is even any validity to it) however folks need to also understand that Chris Robinson was not without Q/C issues either with his Burlington. Therefore lets not jump to conclusions nor make accusations in this.

It also needs to be said how the new 'Burlington' could have also helped themselves tremendously if they would have been a little more 'open' with their wholesale customers to let us know what their plans were! I called several people (including Don Snyder) to find out what was going to happen, and no one seemed to know anything for certain! If what you are saying is even true, it would seem like SCAT is not the only one having a problem with communications!!

As for getting it right in USA vs. China getting it right, ....does that one really need to get debated here?? For those of us who are involved in motorsports will quickly tell you that SCAT has a superb reputation in the automotive aftermarket, ...and quite honestly, they do not need the Model-A or T business to survive. The only reason why they are even making crankshafts for the A & T is because they were approached by some top-quality engine builders wanting a better product. They did not come to the marketplace begging for customers.


I will close by saying that I TOTALLY disagree that Burlington needs to get into the Model-T crank business. What is wrong with supporting the two that are already making T crankshafts? Part of the issue in this hobby is when you already have a couple suppliers of a good product, adding more manufacturers to split the small market does nothing more than drive the cost up or the quality away. It also makes investors for future products gunshy. I have seen this over & over where a vendor chooses to go off-shore to find a manufacturer that will make something cheaper (like Model-A brake drums) after someone else has done the R&D and the Marketing. All this has done in the past is make it where the present two suppliers are struggling to get a ROI.

Like I said above, lets see when you the new crankshafts hit the market how they will price out and compare the quality before we start the 'bashing nonsense'.

[George Miller]

I will talk with Brian McCullough as soon as they open this AM to find out the truth in that situation (whether there is even any validity to it) however folks need to also understand that Chris Robinson was not without Q/C issues either with his Burlington. Therefore lets not jump to conclusions nor make accusations in this.

Yes I had one. Had to turn the flywheel on the crank to get it right. It did work out fine. Chris did the right thing and made it right for us. All the rest of his cranks were right on.

[M2M]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

"Dropped the ball on quality control"? REALLY???

Brent, well yes, really. As you just said, "SCAT has a superb reputation in the automotive aftermarket" a comment which I agree with. So clearly if the comments on the Model T forum are true, which I have no reason to believe they're not, they most certainly have dropped the ball by your measure.

You wrote:

"As for getting it right in USA vs. China getting it right, ....does that one really need to get debated here??"

There's a debate about USA vs China??? If so, I didn't start it...go back and read my comments. SCAT makes a point of mentioning time after time they employ workers in the USA to machine their cranks...that's great, I commend them. By saying "Made in USA" though you're saying something more...your saying QUALITY and CUSTOMER SERVICE, that's my point. I alway prefer to buy "Made in USA" if a item is priced competitively because of that.

Are you saying I'm 'bashing nonsense' by passing on information I have to forum members about an expensive and important Model A item? If so, perhaps your status as a dealer of these cranks is clouding your judgement. Also, note that I made a point of praising SCAT for looking after the Model T guy in question so you can hardly say my post was an anti-SCAT rant.

With regards to Model T cranks...who's the second manufacturer, SCAT and ? Even if there is one, I don't agree with you that it's automatically bad news when new competitors enter a market, but in the specific case of T cranks you might be correct.

It's certainly bad for consumers to only have one player. I welcome Burlington's return.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by M2M

Brent, well yes, really. As you just said, "SCAT has a superb reputation in the automotive aftermarket" a comment which I agree with. So clearly if the comments on the Model T forum are true, which I have no reason to believe they're not, they most certainly have dropped the ball by your measure.

You wrote:

"As for getting it right in USA vs. China getting it right, ....does that one really need to get debated here??"

There's a debate about USA vs China??? If so, I didn't start it...go back and read my comments. SCAT makes a point of mentioning time after time they employ workers in the USA to machine their cranks...that's great, I commend them. By saying "Made in USA" though you're saying something more...your saying QUALITY and CUSTOMER SERVICE, that's my point. I alway prefer to buy "Made in USA" if a item is priced competitively because of that.

Are you saying I'm 'bashing nonsense' by passing on information I have to forum members about an expensive and important Model A item? If so, perhaps your status as a dealer of these cranks is clouding your judgement. Also, note that I made a point of praising SCAT for looking after the Model T guy in question so you can hardly say my post was an anti-SCAT rant.

With regards to Model T cranks...who's the second manufacturer, SCAT and ? Even if there is one, I don't agree with you that it's automatically bad news when new competitors enter a market, but in the specific case of T cranks you might be correct.

It's certainly bad for consumers to only have one player. I welcome Burlington's return.

Hey M2M,
Just think $ signs when reading some remarks, and think reverse psychology when reading others to make sense of nonsence remarks, like: more competitors making a product, are bad for consumers and will raise prices Credibility goes out the 'window', eh ?
Thanks for your AND George's input

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by jallison15

Burlington crank shafts have been out of production for several months but will be available soon!
We anticipate cranks will be available in March 2015.
Website is under RE-construction; in the meantime please email me at [email protected]
Look forward to hearing from you!

WELCOME to this Forum !
Thanks for posting, as I'm sure that many here are anxious to hear from you regarding product/cost/quality/availability !!
Email sent.

[BlueSunoco]

Looking at the Scat website, I see they list two Model A crankshafts the second one with 'oil holes'. I'm confused I guess is this for a pressurized system?? Part # 7-A-4250-H

[diomed]

In the 2015 Scat catalog they also list a 7-A-4250-S, which has the original style oil slinger at the back of the crank.

Originally Posted by BlueSunoco

Looking at the Scat website, I see they list two Model A crankshafts the second one with 'oil holes'. I'm confused I guess is this for a pressurized system?? Part # 7-A-4250-H

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by M2M

Brent, well yes, really. As you just said, "SCAT has a superb reputation in the automotive aftermarket" a comment which I agree with. So clearly if the comments on the Model T forum are true, which I have no reason to believe they're not, they most certainly have dropped the ball by your measure.

You wrote:

"As for getting it right in USA vs. China getting it right, ....does that one really need to get debated here??"

There's a debate about USA vs China??? If so, I didn't start it...go back and read my comments. SCAT makes a point of mentioning time after time they employ workers in the USA to machine their cranks...that's great, I commend them. By saying "Made in USA" though you're saying something more...your saying QUALITY and CUSTOMER SERVICE, that's my point. I alway prefer to buy "Made in USA" if a item is priced competitively because of that.

Are you saying I'm 'bashing nonsense' by passing on information I have to forum members about an expensive and important Model A item? If so, perhaps your status as a dealer of these cranks is clouding your judgement. Also, note that I made a point of praising SCAT for looking after the Model T guy in question so you can hardly say my post was an anti-SCAT rant.

With regards to Model T cranks...who's the second manufacturer, SCAT and ? Even if there is one, I don't agree with you that it's automatically bad news when new competitors enter a market, but in the specific case of T cranks you might be correct.

It's certainly bad for consumers to only have one player. I welcome Burlington's return.

.

Well geez, it appears you really do not know if that comment is even factual yet because some small engine builder posted that one comment, without knowing all the facts you are jumping on a mission. Out of all the others of us who have purchased Scat cranks this year, where are all the other complainers at? There are none!!

I have spoken twice with Brian at SCAT today to find out the true story of what really happened on this deal. When you read what is written by Mr. Doleshal on that forum, ...and then you find out how the deal went down, it pisses me off because his story on the MTFCA forum is very misleading.

First off, Mr. Doleshal orders 5 crankshafts from SCAT earlier this year. (...likely an initial stocking order -or to get a better quantity pricing??) Adam complains about 3 of the cranks do not meet his approval so the factory sends a call ticket to pick them up at their expense. SCAT then credits Mr. Doleshal for 3 crankshafts at his request for them to do so. SCAT's Q/C gets the crankshafts back, they inspect them and find all 3 meet all of their specifications in finish and in sizes, ...so they repackaged all 3 of them and put them back into inventory. This is the only time they have received any complaints regarding T cranks that anyone there can remember.

Ironically, regarding the fillet radius, Brian told me that there are all kinds of Model-T engine builders and many have their own ideas of what they want. Bill Barth was the initial one that approached Mr. Lieb about manufacturing these Model-T crankshafts. It was Bill Barth that set the parameters (specifications) of what he wanted the crank to be. Since Mr. Doleshal did not tell SCAT to do anything different when he placed the order, they sent him crankshafts to the same specifications that Mr. Barth initially had them manufactured. Brian pointed out that if Mr. Doleshal had specified the exact fillet radius he wanted, or specified he wanted a different RA finish, they would have gladly met his requests. Isn't it amazing how the perception changes when all of the facts are known?? Why do you suppose 5 crankshafts were ordered but 3 were sent back for a credit, and he has not ordered any more crankshafts since that date??


Yes, there were three aftermarket T crank manufacturers, --one is gone now because of too many companies trying to survive in a small niche market. It is now only Bill Dubats out of Minnesota making a counterweighted crankshaft , --and Scat crank. Bill makes a great product however it is a ROI deal where I doubt he will make many more simply because of the economics. Feel free to do your homework about what I am saying!


As for comments by the poster following yours above, think this through. You begin making a certain high quality widget for a niche hobbyist market where you need to amortize your R&D and tooling costs over 10,000 sold units, ...and then I come into the/your market with one of my own products just like yours that is of equal quality. Now your projected sales in a given period has potentially been cut in half, which means it will take longer for you to get your investment back. My new product also makes a hit to your company's bottom line, but you will persevere on. The next thing we know, a 3rd manufacturer has decided they want to enter our niche market. The best way for them to compete is to have their product made off-shore where they can sell it cheaper. Now look at what it has done for your business' bottom-line. Lets say you were hoping to sell 10,000 units within 5 years which will break you 'even' where you can start making money in the 6th year of manufacturing these. When I came along and offered my product competing against you, this just put that 5 year time-frame out 'til 10 years. Things will be tight financially for both of us but we will squeak by financially. Now this 3rd manufacturer needs to sell his product too, so they offer theirs cheaper, or at less quality than ours to gain marketshare. Guess what, we have money invested in this so now we either must drop our prices to compete (less profit yet!!) or we must cut corners somewhere (i.e.: quality?) just to be able to sell enough of our widgets where we can pay the bills.

I realize that scenario above is lengthy but anyone that understands economics understand this is real-world, --and more importantly, this is what is happening in our Model-A reproduction parts world. I do not disagree that competition keeps everyone honest in business, but too much competition creates an environment where the 'honest' can no longer survive. This IS bad for the consumers as now it comes down to a cheap widget offered at a low price, and maybe ONE better quality widget whose manufacturer has been beaten up financially trying to compete, and possibly not up to the initial quality it once was. And, instead of that manufacturer making a profit where he can expand his manufacturing base and offer more items, he looks at his past financial statement and says the ROI risk is not there, ...so we lose when he chooses not to manufacture more needed Model-A parts. This is NOT reverse psychology nor some ploy for larger $$ signs! It is a factual perspective from someone who has been in this industry long enough to know what he is talking about.

.


As for other comments below yours above,

[TerryH]

Very well said and explained Brent, and the Model A niche market for almost anything has to be pretty small to begin with. Then when the good guys lose out, and the "cheap" guys survive, everyone then complains about how bad the quality is. It's hard to have it both ways!

[M2M]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

It is now only Bill Dubats out of Minnesota making a counterweighted crankshaft , --and Scat crank. Bill makes a great product however it is a ROI deal where I doubt he will make many more simply because of the economics. Feel free to do your homework about what I am saying!
As for other comments below yours above

Brent, thanks for your reply. I believe Bill stopped making cranks quite a while ago so as I said SCAT is only player for T cranks. Not good for consumers. So there is room for Burlington to enter that game; perhaps you can mention it when you talk to them.

By the way, this is what Bill had to say about closing down and SCAT cranks:

By Bill Dubats on Sunday, July 07, 2013 - 05:54 pm:I reluctantly closed my “Made in USA” crankshaft business over a year ago. I never heard of any breakage, and never grew tired of getting calls saying this crank “made the smoothest running T engine I have ever driven”. There were some negative and incorrect postings such as “a cast iron piece is likely to break…” No sense in trying to correct all the ignorance in the world, but heat treated ductile iron is very unlike cast grey iron in strength, E Modulus and toughness.
With the SCAT crank available, there was no need to continue my less cost efficient manufacturing plan. We did spectrometer testing on an early SCAT and found it was NOT the 4340 alloy claimed, but much closer to 4140. The Chinese only cut corners on one ingredient – the most expensive one, nickel. It has about ½ the amount to make it 4340, but that is moot, because to be stronger and tougher, 4340 would require a complex double heat treat process. As used, 4130 might have been a better material, less prone to stress hardening and embrittlment.
We also noted that the SCAT steel was the “dirtiest” steel I have ever seen. (sulfur and prosperous are “dirt”” in alloy steel.). Also did a hi-def. X ray of a new SCAT, and found it laced with tiny random spider web like inclusions. A metallurgist friend identified them as “sulfur strings” caused by excessive amorphous sulfur in a forging. Even so, and despite their high weight and over damping of cylinders 1 & 2, SCAT cranks seem to be working out OK.

Bill doesn't seem to be much of a fan of SCAT quality does he? Nor does he seem happy to have been taken down by the Chinese.
Bill's quote is from:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...4134183http://


Have you contacted Mr. Doleshal to get his side of the story? No, I'm guessing. So why is SCAT's version of events automatically the "true story", as you put it? Without contacting Mr. Doleshal we/you cannot make a judgement.

I've met Bill Barth, he's a great guy. Friendly and goes out of his way to help others. He's done a lot for the Model T hobby.

As for Mr. Lieb, he should perhaps learn some common courtesy and reply to emails people send him.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts when you have a SCAT and new Burlington side by side. If you could do the type of analysis that Bill Dubats carried out that would be also great. The "jewelry-like" finish (as you put it) of the SCAT is great but what's inside? I don't agree with you on everything but it's always interesting to hear your take on things.

Merry Christmas!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Thank you regarding Bill's comments. I formerly sat on the Board of Directors of a national club with him where we would discuss stuff like this. If Bill could not make a go of making cranks, I'm not sure anyone else would be any better off. I definitely don't think I should suggest that to the new Burlington owners. If they lost a pile of money like others before them have, I sure wouldn't want that on my conscience.

I am not sure that Bill got taken down by the Chinese, ...and yes I think he is probably a tad bitter over losing that much money in this venture. I do not have any reason to doubt Bill's analysis of the SCAT crank however, like I elluded to about, it evidently doesn't need to be perfect when good will be good enough! If we were to place the two Model-A cranks side-by-side for comparison, what would you say is the difference that makes one better over the other? In other words, let's here some feedback of what you would want checked (compared) on both crankshafts.

[diomed]

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I Googled to see if I could find info on the Dubats Model T crank. I found a 2013 price sheet and they were $1199, which is less that the Scat. I really expected them to be much more. Maybe he couldn't move enough Model T cranks to make it worthwhile. Maybe if he made them for Model A's it would be a different story. For the price, why would anybody buy a Scat?

[Chris in CT]

Hi Guys,

First and foremost, a Merry Christmas to all of you and my very best wishes for a safe and healthy New Year. I'd like to speak to a few of your concerns, and answer some of the questions that have been raised in the above discussion. Let me also say that I appreciate the loyalty and respect that so many of you have expressed toward the Burlington Crankshaft, a little project that has gone back a good ten years or so now since its conception.

First of all, your good response to the introduction of the Burlington Crankshaft was not always so. There was a great deal of initial prejudice against the product because it was made in China. This prejudice evidenced itself immediately by persons who had never even seen one of the new crankshafts, despite the fact that Chevy, Mercedes, Toyota, and Cummins were all having their cranks made in the same factory that produced the Burlington. Here is the true reason that I went to China: after contacting every forge in the United States, and finding out that not one would agree to even make the crank - not for love, and not for money - I reluctantly went overseas.

Start-up was very slow; initially we had only a very few sales in the first 3-4 years that the Burlington was offered. We also had to "place" a few of these cranks at our expense with a few key figures in the Model A hobby just to get someone to "try" the thing and start a word-of-mouth response. Meanwhile, I am "catching" some of the manufacturing issues ("bugs") that exist with any new, first issue, product. For instance, we had to face-grind the flywheel flange of each and every crank we sold to meet the less-than 0.001 runnout (Z-axis "wobble") requirement on the face of the flange.

Did you know that the main bearing runnout tolerance on a small block Chevy is 0.006? Did you know that main bearing runnout tolerance on a Model A is 0.002? Do you have any idea how difficult that is to do on a thin crankshaft section?

Anyhow, we had a very good production value: less than 5% of our production was returned for defect or failure, and all customer complaints were immediately addressed.

One reason dealers and other key contacts in the trade were not informed as I approached the end of my inventory is that I did not really know whether I was going to place a re-order until I was down to the last 50 or so crankshafts. I am 71 years old now, and looking to wind down some of my business involvements. Frankly, with the investment of time and money in this project, and the return on investment over the initial ten years, I made the decision to withdraw from the market.

Mr. Allison of Texas, who will be offering the Burlington Crankshaft, has all of the original specifications and the original molds. He also has the benefit of the background experience that I acquired with the crankshaft, and we expect that any original issues with the crank have been resolved and will no longer exist in the new unit. Furthermore, since he is entering the market with a reputable product, I believe that he will find it more remunerative than I was able to do. I have every confidence in him.

So, I hope that is enough disclosure for all of you. Oh, one thing: Yes, the SCAT product is a very good one, and I believe that the rough forging is actually made in India.

May the new year shine on the re-introduction of the Burlington Crankshaft, and its successful installation into many fine old Model A Fords. I send you all blessings, and especially James Allison, who has so gallantly picked up the torch!

Happy Motoring! Chris Robinson

[George Miller]

Chris I for one want to thank you for your work with the crank. Our hobbly needed good cranks. The last crank that I installed was a SCAT. I like the idea of 4340, but was disappointed with all the square edges from journal to journal. Seems to me that it would have a lot of resistance going through the air and oil Also around the rod journal was different than any thing that I have seen.

So for me I'm going to give your crank the highest marks.

[hardtimes]

Hey Chris,
THANKS much for sharing with us ! Since you are so knowledgeable about crank making processes, what is you opinion on how hard and/or much more expensive it would be to make a FIVE main Burlington crank.
We have a member here who is eventually making us an A block with five mains for crank. We are searching for a source for such a crank. Thanks in advance for any of you input/thoughts on this.

[Chris in CT]

Hi Hardtimes,

Until I made the decision to leave the business, I was toying with making a 3/5 main bearing crank with 1.750 in. mains and rodpins. The crank was to be set up in such a way that it could be used both in 3 main setups and 5 main setups (provided the engine builder was willing to fabricate bridges to support mains 2 and 4) the web would be expanded so that the slings would be 3/4 in thick instead of 5/8 s, and the new slim profile rods would be made of 7075 aluminum. The front main would remain at 1 5/8 inch so that the oil pan would not have to be modified...

Here's the deal: You would probably have to prove to Mr. Allison that there was a market for such a crank. Don't forget that he would have to have engineering drawings made, and then a foundry mold. This is a costly business, and anyone embarking on it would have to know how quickly he could amortize his costs and expect a return on his investment. Best way to begin would be to fabricate a one-off crank from 4340 billet, and de-bug it before going anywhere else with the idea. Is it do-able? Sure. Does it make commercial sense? I do not know.

It kinda fun to play with all these ideas, isn't it? Some are good, some are crazy, and some just might work! Have fun!

Oh, to answer your question, I would think that the actual costs of making such a crank would be directly comparable to the cost of making the current crankshaft.

[Pinstripe]

excellent posts thanks

[quickchange]

The 1st 4340 billet 5 main B crank is almost finished down under. testing in 2015,
Enjoyed reading the above posts, most interesting .

[hardtimes]

Hey Chris,
Thanks for your response and for the insight into the business end of crankshaft manufacturing.

Very encouraging information for those who are anxiously awaiting the Tod Buttermore new block.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by quickchange

The 1st 4340 billet 5 main B crank is almost finished down under. testing in 2015,
Enjoyed reading the above posts, most interesting .

A couple things worth mentioning, Dan Price was making (casting) the main webs to weld into an A/B block to convert from 3 to 5 mains. For those in the market for a 5 main crank, please consider the crank that Derek is speaking of, but if someone needs another source, I am pretty sure it was SCAT that mentioned to me they had the capability. If not them, maybe Moldex? Maybe a quick call to Kathy Donovan to ask who is making them for the Model-D?

[M2M]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

If we were to place the two Model-A cranks side-by-side for comparison, what would you say is the difference that makes one better over the other? In other words, let's here some feedback of what you would want checked (compared) on both crankshafts.

Maybe compare the weight of the two cranks. A SCAT T crank was around 7lbs more than a Dubats T crank, and double the weight of a stock T crank.

If there is a substantial weight difference between the two then what are the implications, both positive and negative?

Don't know, but for example maybe a heavier crank is not what you want when using babbitt? How does a heavy crank match up with a lightened flywheel? You and others who understand such things can investigate these issues.

[jallison15]

Much to our displeasure, an unexpected labor strike on the west coast port of entry into the USA has delayed our much anticipated delivery of cranks.
As we learn more, we will post to bring ya’ll up to date. Stay tuned!

[TinCup]

Come on Al just drive out there and get them. Swing by OKC and I will go with you.

[jallison15]

I am fabricating pontoons for the Vicki to motor out to the ship, as we speak!

[TinCup]

I believe it!

[jallison15]

At last posting our journey of production, receipt and “delivery ready” Burlington Cranks was pirated by a little shipping strike on the West Coast.
Super good news!
Pirates gone, cranks have arrived and undergone quality control ~ ready for shipment as of this update.
Orders now being accepted, you may contact me via [email protected]
or 512-461-4906 ~ look forward to hearing from you ~ James “Al” Allison.

[Chris Haynes]

Pirated? I know I won't be spending my Union negotiated money on your product. You calling Union members fighting for fair wages and benefits PIRATES is inexcusable. Keep your Chinese crap.

[colin1928]

Originally Posted by jallison15

At last posting our journey of production, receipt and “delivery ready” Burlington Cranks was pirated by a little shipping strike on the West Coast.
Super good news!
Pirates gone, cranks have arrived and undergone quality control ~ ready for shipment as of this update.
Orders now being accepted, you may contact me via [email protected]
or 512-461-4906 ~ look forward to hearing from you ~ James “Al” Allison.

What is the price per crank

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by colin1928

What is the price per crank

X2, would also appreciate answer to this question. And, do you have drilled for full pressure and stroker cranks available...or do these have to be special ordered !

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by colin1928

What is the price per crank

Originally Posted by hardtimes

X2, would also appreciate answer to this question. And, do you have drilled for full pressure and stroker cranks available...or do these have to be special ordered !

this web site Burlingtoncrankshaft.com/ states 1250.00 plus shipping

[colin1928]

Thanks Mike that's has been on the web site for a while now just wondering how current it is now they actually have the cranks
I have sent a e-mail asking for more info on prices and specs

[jallison15]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Sir, out of frustration in multiple delays my interjection of humor was not intended to offend but to inform of "Time Pirated" and ultimate product receipt now available for distribution.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by jallison15

Sir, out of frustration in multiple delays my interjection of humor was not intended to offend but to inform of "Time Pirated" and ultimate product receipt now available for distribution.

And, as I understand it, the situation HAS been resolved.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...erez/23744299/

I've never met a Union that couldn't be bought.

And that too is the law of supply and demand at work. At least according to the marketplace that the law allows.

It will be interesting to see if this affects pricing at Harbor Freight.

Joe K

[jallison15]

Burlington Crank followers ~ just a quick note regarding our burlingtoncrankshaft.com website. We are in the process of making updates to the site, thanks for your patience during this transition. In the interim, we recommend you reach us at [phone] 512-461-4906 or email [email protected] for accurate, timely answers during this transition ~ many thanks!

[jallison15]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

X2, would also appreciate answer to this question. And, do you have drilled for full pressure and stroker cranks available...or do these have to be special ordered !

It is not recommended to drill for full pressure, we do not have stroker cranks available.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by jallison15

It is not recommended to drill for full pressure, we do not have stroker cranks available.

Thanks for your response !
I think that I understand your 'reasoning' for not recommending drilling, as the use of A size throws , IMO, is somewhat asking for trouble when taking more metal away from them..no ?
Anyway, the broken cranks that I've seen (from another maker) were all drilled and broke thru the drilled rod throws.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Thanks for your response !
I think that I understand your 'reasoning' for not recommending drilling, as the use of A size throws , IMO, is somewhat asking for trouble when taking more metal away from them..no ?
Anyway, the broken cranks that I've seen (from another maker) were all drilled and broke thru the drilled rod throws.

Who was that manufacturer? SCAT is unaware there have been any failures to any of their drilled A crankshafts. While I realize there are / have been other Model-A crankshaft manufacturers, maybe this needs to be clarified to who was, --or was NOT the manufacturer so not to create confusion at a later date.

[don3527]

James Allison purchased the tooling from Chris Robinson and supposedly has the Burlington Crankshafts on the shelf and ready to sell. He is in TX, his phone number is 512-461-4906. I'm only selling the Scat crankshafts now. Don Snyder

[goodcar]

As far as I know Burlington counterbalanced crankshafts are available from Al Allison in Texas for $1250. Check this out: http://www.burlingtoncrankshaft.com/...-us-mainmenu-3

Please let me know if this is not correct as I am planning to buy one.