Success with improvements for touring

[tbirdtbird]

OK, first off I am in this for all the touring I can get.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I am glad you are happy with your Model-A experiences. Your comments do pose an interesting thought to me though, ....how is it that Model-A's were capable for touring successfully all these years, and all these miles without a set of tube shocks, an electronic ignition system, and a Mitchell overdrive?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

u may have missed this part

"This all boils down to being easier on the car and easier on the driver."

Your perception! ....but not mine.



Tube shocks are a cheaper fix than a properly working original shock, but definitely not better. You can't tune the ride quality on a tube shock. You can on an original shock.

Granted the electronic ignition is an improvement over a worn-out original ignition system but with good quality dist. cams back into production, a completely rebuilt distributor (which costs less money) will perform equal to an electronic system, ...until the module on the electronic system fails. When they do, your options are much more limited which generally places some stress on the driver at that point!!

Since you mentioned you rebuilt your rear end, you could have saved ½ the money by installing a 3.27 gear ratio over the Mitchell overdrive and achieved the same results with performance. With the weight of the Mitchell repositioned due to the 180's footwell, the ride quality would have improved by using the 3.27 too. So you spent more money than you needed to, cluttered up the interior with another shift lever, and decreased the quality of the ride characteristics. I fail to see how that has made the driver's life easier.

.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

GEEZ! I feel REALLY COLD water frum somewhere????? Maybe my A.C. drain line plugged up again???
Bill W.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

like I said already if you don't like the setup, simply do not do it. why argue? I happen to love it. And the only perception I honestly care about is mine.

I read Brents post as a response to your "This post is for the benefit of those who have considered these changes for their car but weren't sure about them."

Why would someone consider them, being easier on the car and easier on the driver? As Brent states, all those mods are not necessary for a good reliable car that can hit 70. They will do the job but all those things are not necessary.

[Gyrodoc]

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I like hearing both sides. You're both right.

"There's only one thing worse than a man who doesn't have strong likes and dislikes, and that's a man who has strong likes and dislikes without the courage to voice them".
Tony Randall

[Duffy1]

tbirdtbird ;

You left out your A/C by Ken Davis . Hard to argue against an A/C especially when living in Texas and it is the Bosses prerequest to going on tours . If mama`s not happy nobodys happy. Glad you are happy with your set up. Diversity in Model A ( from no mods to a lot of mods ) is what makes this hobby interesting . Keep touring and posting .

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

OK, you naysayers are correct and I am wrong, I spent all night removing all that stuff from the car. You are correct, an engine with less vibration will not make any difference to the babbitt at all. Turning 2200 @ 70 is of no help, lets just wind it up to 2500 rpm or more and totally fall off the torque curve, you are right. Yep, lets put in a 3.27 and be ready for the mountains. why not a 2.81, I have contacted Snyders to have that special set cut just for me.
In fact, I not only removed all the stuff I mentioned, but I went back in time even more and installed a pile of Model T stuff, it is even older and thus must be even better on today's busy interstates. Man it was all I could do to get that magneto flywheel on that A, but I did it !!!
In fact, why drive it at all? Just trailer it and you'll never have to worry about any of this; that is my next move. Actually why have the car at all?

I have been in 2 clubs and both have had a couple killed and the car destroyed by trucks coming up behind them and smashing them because they were slower than surrounding traffic, but why would anyone care about that?

As I said at the outset, if you don't like it don't do it...which means if you don't like it, don't do it. Run your car however you want. Use rubber band drive; put in a Briggs and Stratton, how about a make&break; what about cucumber drive?

I think some folks on the forum have forgotten to take their medication.

now that you removed all that unneeded garbage can you please ship it all to my shop. i will take care of the shipping fees

[Hitchhiker]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Granted the electronic ignition is an improvement over a worn-out original ignition system but with good quality dist. cams back into production, a completely rebuilt distributor (which costs less money) will perform equal to an electronic system, ...until the module on the electronic system fails. When they do, your options are much more limited which generally places some stress on the driver at that point!!



.

You forgot one variable....the person in control of the advance lever....I've said it before and I will say it again. A correctly set up centrifugal advance is far superior to a manually advanced unit when you take into account the variable of the driver.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Hitchhiker

You forgot one variable....the person in control of the advance lever....I've said it before and I will say it again. A correctly set up centrifugal advance is far superior to a manually advanced unit when you take into account the variable of the driver.

Very true!!

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

OK, you naysayers are correct and I am wrong, I spent all night removing all that stuff from the car. You are correct, an engine with less vibration will not make any difference to the babbitt at all. Turning 2200 @ 70 is of no help, lets just wind it up to 2500 rpm or more and totally fall off the torque curve, you are right. Yep, lets put in a 3.27 and be ready for the mountains. why not a 2.81, I have contacted Snyders to have that special set cut just for me.
In fact, I not only removed all the stuff I mentioned, but I went back in time even more and installed a pile of Model T stuff, it is even older and thus must be even better on today's busy interstates. Man it was all I could do to get that magneto flywheel on that A, but I did it !!!
In fact, why drive it at all? Just trailer it and you'll never have to worry about any of this; that is my next move. Actually why have the car at all?

I have been in 2 clubs and both have had a couple killed and the car destroyed by trucks coming up behind them and smashing them because they were slower than surrounding traffic, but why would anyone care about that?

As I said at the outset, if you don't like it don't do it...which means if you don't like it, don't do it. Run your car however you want. Use rubber band drive; put in a Briggs and Stratton, how about a make&break; what about cucumber drive?

I think some folks on the forum have forgotten to take their medication.

Well we could debate this out for months and probably never have a consensus. My only aim is to make sure the "innocent bystanders" do not misunderstand the information we give and mistake it as being 'gospel'. Folks feeling the need to convert to hydraulic brakes over mechanicals is a great example of how misinformation becomes alleged facts.



I do want to make a few comments regarding your last comments;

Living in the mountains of eastern Tennessee, I know what a 3.27 gear is capable of from repeated first-hand experience. I recently had a couple cars from my shop on the Blue Ridge Parkway tour with 3.27 ratios and their owners reported they pulled the hills remarkably. Therefore we need to be cautious not to lead folks into thinking the 3.27 ratio cannot satisfactorily perform in the mountains.

As for the Model-T flywheel, they actually share the same bolt pattern on the flange so it really should have been an easy installation.


Your comments regarding why own a Model-A are thought provoking. Thank you for that. In my view, there are all kinds of reasons to own a Model-A but since you mentioned you belonging to two clubs (that experienced fatalities), one could assume you are speaking of MARC or MAFCA sanctioned clubs. If this is indeed true, do not these modifications you speak of go directly against the core value of the club's mission statement?

My personal position is if someone finds themselves pushing a vehicle past it's designed mechanical limits while in an unsafe or compromising condition, then the entire scenario really needs to be reconsidered. Just this past week, there was a Model T tour out in Utah where there was a fatality of a tour participant. Several on that tour stated they were driving on roads that placed them and their vehicles in jeopardizing situations. Many T owners were apparently trying to drive as fast as they could to avoid being hit by modern cars, ...and many found themselves driving precarious speeds on shoulders of the road in an effort to be safer. One vehicle on the tour drifted off the edge of the road into sand and the driver overcorrected. The result was the spoke wheel collapsed and the vehicle rolled ejecting the passengers. One passenger succumbed to her injuries.

The bottom line is I agree with you how there are all kinds of modern modifications that can be done to a Model-A (effectively turning it into a street rod) that will likely make it somewhat safer at interstate-type speeds. The issue is these speed you mention are much greater than what the Model-A was originally designed for and/or expected to be driven in its' day. Making your car drive faster does not necessarily make it safer in my view. So my question is what is wrong with using a trailer to safely transport your Model-A to a geographical area where it can be operated in a safe manner as it was originally intended?

.

[H. L. Chauvin]

On a more serious note, with nothing but sincere respect for the gentlemen replying to "Touring Improvements", this particular discussion could be published in a book for both experienced Model A owners & for newbies who just bought A Model A, to illustrate the differences in restoration opinions that we "all" share.

The comical replies should be left in to add interest.

With a few suggestions from "all" Ford - Barners brave enough to offer an opinion, we could throw in a few more likes, dislikes, pet peeves, etc.

Some other topics could be: white-wall tires, detergent oil, cut-off switches on positive & negative battery leads, & what ever.

This publication could be eloquently presented with humor, & could be both educational & professionally amusing for all Model A owners.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Well we could debate this out for months and probably never have a consensus. My only aim is to make sure the "innocent bystanders" do not misunderstand the information we give and mistake it as being 'gospel'. Folks feeling the need to convert to hydraulic brakes over mechanicals is a great example of how misinformation becomes alleged facts.


.

I agree with this 100%.

You CAN do whatever you want to your car. Our point is that you don't HAVE to to get a; smooth running, great mileage, comfortable, great stopping, etc. Model A.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Blackwalls, whitewalls, skinny girlfriends, fat girlfriends, it's all a matter of preference. Enjoy whatever you have.

[dlshady]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

<snip>

Your comments regarding why own a Model-A are thought provoking. Thank you for that. In my view, there are all kinds of reasons to own a Model-A but since you mentioned you belonging to two clubs (that experienced fatalities), one could assume you are speaking of MARC or MAFCA sanctioned clubs. If this is indeed true, do not these modifications you speak of go directly against the core value of the club's mission statement?

<snip>

.

C'mon Brent..... Seriously?

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

So, if one has ANYTHING non-original that violates the MARC or MAFCA mission statement, should we not be allowed as a member???
My '30 Coupe, Minerva, was highly modified & very dependable & was a pleasure to drive. My '29 Coupe, Vermin is almost completely "bone stock" & will be a new driving experience & will be very dependable also.
I can imagine Henry Ford saying, "Well, folks, I've built you a TUFF, DEPENDABLE, car, so go & accessorize it to suit yourselves, we even offer GENUINE FORD ACCESSORIES to help you, jist DON'T buy them "GYP" parts out there"!
As for "US" reaching a "CONCENSUS" on this subject, it has my Dog laughin' uncontrollabley & rollin' in the floor!! Bill W.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

OK, first off I am in this for all the touring I can get. So if you don't like what I have done, simply put, don't do it. This post is for the benefit of those who have considered these changes for their car but weren't sure about them. And, the Dallas club has a bunch of excellent tours every yr.

1. Ken's modern rear shocks WoW the car doesn't hop all over the road any more!
And we do have our share of bad roads around here.

2. FSI electronic ignition. WOW I was told it would seem like I had a counter-balanced crank (which I don't), and it is even better than that ! The engine runs so smoothly it is beyond description. So I am thrilled and I am sure my babbitt is happier, too. And, I used to have a nasty harmonic at 50-55 mph but that is totally gone now. Despite what the instructions say, full advance has kicked in by 1600.

3. Mitchell OD. Holy crap this is excellent! I threw on a tach and was turning 1900 at 60 and 2200 at 70; and it was smooth as could be. I will never see 70 on an actual tour; but I can now be on those stretches of Interstate that can't be avoided and not be a hazard to myself and others. And at lower speeds there will be less wear on the engine. In fact, with my 3.78 gearset I can drive around town in Mitchell high with ease, even off the line at lights.

I had a 3.54 in there before but it cannot compare this Mitchell setup.

4. I thank Tom Endy for exquisite instructions on setting up an A gearset, way better than the Schild book I used 20 yrs ago. Not a peep from the rear and needed no shims at all on the tapers; it is solid back there.

This all boils down to being easier on the car and easier on the driver.

I too have an overdrive, FSI Distributor and Ken's modern shocks (along with some other goodies). I have been very satisfied with this set up.

[amodel25]

I don't have any of it (except an oil filter and alternator) and I'm happy as a clam.

Old school is still cool.........


Talkin' about my '31 slant window, not my avatar

[Duffy1]

I think some folks are confusing adding all these bolt ons with chop and channel ,etc,etc therefore assuming preservation of the Model A is not taking place . I have a 31 s/w with many many goodies ( set up for touring) which can be removed and the car is as stock as the day it rolled off the assembly line. As tbirdtbird stated if you are into touring you might be interested in my post if not, do not waste your time reading it.

[quickchange]

So where do we find these 3.27 original ring & pinnion sets from ? I have had 56 Model A,s & non had 3.27 rears . Are these a MODERN UP GRADE like the tele shocks etc or did some A,s come out factory with them ?? IF not then this must be a modification too.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Duffy1

... I have a 31 ... with many many goodies ( set up for touring) which can be removed and the car is as stock as the day it rolled off the assembly line ...

That's the way mine is!

[Jordan]

I will say I want my next car to be either a 30 tudor or 30 cabriolet. I want to keep my next one closer to stock, so that I can have the best of both worlds.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Jordan

I too have an overdrive, FSI Distributor and Ken's modern shocks (along with some other goodies). I have been very satisfied with this set up.

That is a prefect statement!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by quickchange

So where do we find these 3.27 original ring & pinnion sets from ? I have had 56 Model A,s & non had 3.27 rears . Are these a MODERN UP GRADE like the tele shocks etc or did some A,s come out factory with them ?? IF not then this must be a modification too.

This thread has been "twisted" WAY off-topic but going to back to the first comment, I believe the point was we should consider putting on tube shocks, an electronic ignition, and an overdrive because it is easier on the car & driver if we plan to tour with our Model-As.


To play Devil's Advocate with your question, can you walk up to any Model-A and at a glance tell what rear end gear ratio it has installed?

[Tom Wesenberg]

If I lived in a hot southern state I'd like A/C in my Model A. I don't care about driving faster than 45, but even at 45 I think the engine should be running slower, so I'd like a 3.27 ring and pinion or an overdrive. The overdrive gives more ratios, but in the interest of keeping the car more stock looking, and to save money, I'd probably go with the 3.27 ring and pinion. BTW, Bert's sells them.

I'll keep an open mind, but I'm still trying to figure out how an electronic ignition can make the engine run like it has a counterweighted crankshaft. Counterweights should help a little with making the engine smoother, but the main thing they do is help keep the crankshaft from wanting to bend away from the centerline, and this will greatly add to the babbit life, or bearings, if you have the inserts. But how does what triggers the coil have any effect on the crankshaft? In fact, if the points and plugs are good, I don't see how the electronic ignition is of any benefit to improve performance.

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

<snip>

I'll keep an open mind, but I'm still trying to figure out how an electronic ignition can make the engine run like it has a counterweighted crankshaft. Counterweights should help a little with making the engine smoother, but the main thing they do is help keep the crankshaft from wanting to bend away from the centerline, and this will greatly add to the babbit life, or bearings, if you have the inserts. But how does what triggers the coil have any effect on the crankshaft? In fact, if the points and plugs are good, I don't see how the electronic ignition is of any benefit to improve performance.

I am pretty sure the FSI distributor being discussed has a centrifugal advance in it, like a B engine dist. You do not manually advance the timing, as in a stock A. It is that, more than the electronic trigger, that can make an engine run smoother. The advance is a function of RPM, like the B. Smoother may be because it is not advanced quite as much at any given RPM as you were doing manually. YMMV.

The next generation out of Detroit combined vacuum advance with centrifugal, so that when under load (vacuum drops) the advance falls back (less knock under load). Then it advances under light load (high vacuum).

Personally, I like to have the advance on the column on my A because I can retard a bit under heavy load and advance all I want under light load. I like the control that gives me. But, yes, it does result in me fiddling with the advance a bit in the mountains (not in flat as a pancake SE Texas). That's OK; it's part of the Model A driving experience.

We all restore and drive our Model A's for different reasons.

Viva la difference!

[Karl]

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Personally I find it interesting to see what people have done and how they find it works. On my car I've tired to keep it as original looking as possible but over the years have had Modern points , Leakless pumps , Thermostats , Brake Floaters , Indicators, Quail Thermometers, Modern Raduis ball attachments, Inertia Starter drives and Teflon inserts in the drag linkages . Over time for me personally I have discovered that these upgrades all have their own issues and are generally not any superior to original parts that are in good condition . The only thing that I now run with are indicators and brake floaters (as a nod to the apalling standard of drivers I share the road with) every thing else is pretty much standard -Karl

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

if you could have absolutely no wobble or play in the dizzy shaft...if you could have the cam lobes absolutely the same exact distance apart and all absolutely the same exact height...
e-ignition changes all this...the spark is in the exact right place at the exact right time each and every time, for each and every cyl. and yes it has centrif. advance...and if i didn't see/drive/hear it myself i never would have believed it. Now I can see why these are used extensively in the Great Race. The engine vibration is nearly non-existent and the nasty harmonic is gone. This has to be intuitively better for the bearings, and if you can't believe the bearings will be happier please don't waste valuable bandwidth by complaining about it.

do you run a stock coil with a FSI dist?

[pat in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I'll keep an open mind, but I'm still trying to figure out how an electronic ignition can make the engine run like it has a counterweighted crankshaft.

the comparison probably resulted from the original distributor having a worn top plate center hole, which allows the point gap to change as the plate shifts off center. An engine with this wear runs really unevenly. I've seen some with a movement of .020, which means that at one extreme the points do not even open or at the other they open to .040, depending on where the plate was when they were gapped..

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I think we should do what we WANT to do, who wants their car to be EGGZACTLY like Joe Blow's car?? And, if JIM/TX, would sound his "CANNON" we could be on to new things & quit "wasting" hard drive space! LOL (Or did that only apply in school when you wasted scratch paper???)LOL
Bill W.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by quickchange

So where do we find these 3.27 original ring & pinnion sets from ? I have had 56 Model A,s & non had 3.27 rears . Are these a MODERN UP GRADE like the tele shocks etc or did some A,s come out factory with them ?? IF not then this must be a modification too.

just get a low speed AA worm drive, 6.6:1!!! haha no mountian too tall or tree too high

[Ron W]

Brent can't help stirring the pot. Henry Ford improved his cars. I did too. Ron W

[Mitch//pa]

Not sure if this is comparable or not, i have done many conversions on point dist early 70's gm's to HEI and it makes a huge difference in performance , idle quality etc. . Of course its a much hotter spark but you also get the exact trigger of the dist pickup.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

Tom, that is just what I said about e-ignition until I tried it. I'd give you the explanation of where the smoothness is coming from but I am sure somebody will beat me up if I do, so I will keep quiet, since my initial post was taken as a mandate for the entire world by someone who happens to hate Texas and Texans after being here in '08.

Again, your perception. ....but not a factual statement!

Originally Posted by Ron W

Brent can't help stirring the pot. Henry Ford improved his cars. I did too. Ron W

That is probably a very true statement!



With regard to the FS Ignition system, I have actually been a dealer for them for quite a few years now so I am very 'versed' on how they work. I initially installed them on my banger-powered race cars. I also used to (4 to 5+ years ago) install them on quite a few customer's cars. I did that for a couple of reasons. The main reason was back then, reproduction distributor cams were being manufactured off-shore and the points did not break at true 90° apart creating timing issues.

The second reason why I quit was I was experiencing quite a bit of module failures with units I had installed and with folks who had installed their own units. JD & Mel was very helpful with working with me on warrantying them and troubleshooting but the 'pain was not worth the gain' when my customers were having failures while on tour or out driving. Paying a tow bill to get back home and the stress' involved with the downtime slowly created customers asking why are we doing this.

Then along comes a US manufactured dist. cam. that is CNC machined with exacting tolerances while simultaneously designed to increase the coil saturation time to increase the coil's spark output. Adding to that was my ability to hone housing bushings instead of reaming them and the quality of shaft fit came up where the distributer could produce a timed spark very near what a 'Hall-effect' triggered system could produce.

Later in time we concluded that it was a voltage spike and/or an intermittent ground issue that was the likely culprit of the FS failures. Again, running extra wires to circumvent this, or carrying extra distributors/modules as back-ups for the minute gain just did not seem practical. So for me it begs the question just how hot of a spark is necessary to have a good running engine? My view is for a low-compression engine such as a Model-A (under 7½:1 CR), "lighting off" the fuel mixture is not that hard to do with a stock ignition system, especially with the combustion chamber design and slow RPMs. Maybe I am still "gun-shy", ...or maybe I'm just lazy, but if a set of points will create nearly the same result with less cost and greater reliability, why take the chance?

So I guess I will back-up and offer my apologies for stirring the pot. It is your car, and you are the one that it must please. Best wishes to you and I bid you many happy and safe touring miles ahead.

(signed; from a former Texan himself)

.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

See, Model A'ing & discussions about it, CAN be great fun, without anyone gettin' their undies twisted or foamin' at the mouth. Even with my house A.C. on the fritz, it's been a good day! Bill W.

[TerryH]

I have been on lots of tours here in S. California, and it sure is funny that almost no one with a stock Model A will venture anywhere except on surface streets. Most of these cars are not totally restored, mechanically perfect and never will be, and for some reason, many Model A owners will never achieve that. The cars that do tour do not have all of those mods, but many do have OD, HC head, and cast iron brake drums...which I guess you really don't need either, as long as you can still track down NOS steel drums. Most also have added the second tail light and turn signals, along with seat belts.....again, not real Model A, and those seat belts sure do look unoriginal too, and really aren't necessary if you just drive carefully....
Let's face it, as someone else has already said, you are never going to get these two camps together; both are right in that they can make valid points in each of their viewpoints.....there is no right or wrong, just folks enjoying their cars as they deem best. I think presenting both viewpoints is great and folks can decide for themselves, as most touring folks that I have seen do............

[mhsprecher]

I like to hear the experiences, as well. It's a little like religion. As in many things, I straddle both camps. I want to keep my car as stock as possible, but I also want it to be reliable and safe as it can be. I want bright lights and as good a windshield wiper as I can get. I also want to stop as well as I can given stock or nearly stock parts. I will install an aluminum fan. I have a NuEx voltage cutout that I will install. I like the idea of putting in a thermostat, but I won't do anything that I really don't need to do.

I put in halogen and LED bulbs for safety's sake. I want to tour and drive my car regularly, but I don't want to keep up with people on interstates. I have actually driven a short distance on one, but will do so only when I have to. I am a tall guy and I wish the seat went back a little further as the driving experience would be better.

Best of all worlds would be to have a pretty bone stock one and another that was tweaked here and there for better performance and safety. I don't have the funds or storage for that. On seat belts, driving carefully will not help you if some knucklehead runs into you, so those are an absolute must for me.

This is a great, great forum. I welcome all suggestions, ideas, comments and opinions on topic. This is a wonderful community. Participating is as much fun as owning the car.

[Mike V. Florida]

I received some messages so I want to make something clear here. I believe the changes he made worked. I believe his car runs smoother. I beleive he has better pick up.

I wanted to make a point along with Brent's statements that while these expensive things worked, they might not have been necessary as compared to properly restored stock or use of different parts available during the day.

As for those that like to say then why did they change it in later cars I ask you what other cars had individual coils with multiple firing of the plugs like today?

[Purdy Swoft]

Model T's had multiple coils. Looks like the newer cars are going the other way with the coils on the valve covers for each cylinder.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Model T's had multiple coils. Looks like the newer cars are going the other way with the coils on the valve covers for each cylinder.

its called COP (coil on plug)

[Bill in Al]

I'm not telling what I've got but I sure do like it better now.I do wish I had two A's.That would make me even happier.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Bill in Al

I'm not telling what I've got ...

Wise man!

[brum1]

I personally strive for a completely authentic Model A but if someone wants to modify to suit their needs they would still be welcome in our local chapter and get along just fine

[Curt Campbell]

Great post tbird.....great ideas indeed. Its a shame people are so defensive.

Its your car....your $$...do as you please.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

I like all A's. The woodie is being slowly restored back to all original from a touring car, since its not a great touring car....too uncomfortable. My Slant, OTOH, is for touring and has E ignition, HC head, counterweighted crank, Stipes 330 cam, overdrive, Winfield carb and manifold and cast iron drums with Teds floaters on the mechanical brakes. Its a great touring car. My AA will be stock to the JS, and my infidel pickup has the dreaded and blasphemous pinto in it.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by pat in Santa Cruz

I like all A's. The woodie is being slowly restored back to all original from a touring car, since its not a great touring car....too uncomfortable. My Slant, OTOH, is for touring and has E ignition, HC head, counterweighted crank, Stipes 330 cam, overdrive, Winfield carb and manifold and cast iron drums with Teds floaters on the mechanical brakes. Its a great touring car. My AA will be stock to the JS, and my infidel pickup has the dreaded and blasphemous pinto in it.

At least, it's a FORD engine in yore pickumup! Now a chevy would really be BLASPHEMY Ain't nobody got no SCRUPLES?? (no, thet's NOT a Dog snack!) Buster T. (Bill's laffin' STUPID!)

[Pete]

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"Tube shocks are a cheaper fix than a properly working original shock, but definitely not better. You can't tune the ride quality on a tube shock. You can on an original shock."

I almost always agree with what Brent has to say but that statement must have come from a weak moment because I know he is an ex racer.
One thing for sure though, most of the kits are cheaper.
I haven't seen one yet that is worth using though. They have taken an existing shock that fits the space available MECHANICALLY and adapted it with little if any consideration given to compression rebound rates suitable for a model A.
HOWEVER, tube shocks that are readily available and adaptable to model A's are easily located used on Ebay or many racing websites. These are for sprint cars or midgets. Some are adjustable, all are available in increments of compression and rebound that can be adapted to almost any car that was ever made. Usually a sprint car shock that has been
"used up" on the track can be used on the street for at least 20,000 miles of good service. I have done this many times. The ride can be "tuned" to almost anybody's requirements. One big problem here is, most people don't know what is "good" because they haven't tried different compression/rebound rates.
The mounting hardware for the model A shock kits that I have seen looks to me like it was designed by a bunch of (expletive deleted).

Brent is right on one count, the stock shock is easier to "tune".
They sure don't work as good as a race shock though.
I have stock shocks on one car and race shocks on another right now so I have tried both. The PROPER tube shocks are FAR superior.

[Kurt in NJ]

I have been thinking of some modifications for "touring" that would be nice---a fuel injection/ignition intergrated with knock and mixture control,auto trans, 4 wheel independant suspension with 4 wheel disc brakes, power steering, integrated ac,heat automatic climate control, power heated seat with memory---so if I use the A engine and grille with a motormeter will it still be a model A if some of the other parts come from other cars??

Can a properly restored "blue ribbon" car tour with touring modified cars ---or will they have trouble keeping up?

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

Can a properly restored "blue ribbon" car tour with touring modified cars ---or will they have trouble keeping up?

Depends on the roads you are touring. Interstates most likely not, back roads why not.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Just a quick comment about the shocks....

It seems that finding rebuildable OEM Houdaille units is getting more and more difficult, and not always a guaranteed success, and Mr. Stipe may not resume production of his shocks, due to his move and down-sizing...

So, while tube shocks may not be "as good as" properly functioning Houdailles, perhaps they are better than no shocks at all ?

[Duffy1]

When touring the problem we have in both clubs I belong to is that a lot of folks have OD and a lot do not therefore on a tour the OD folks want to run 55 mph and those with out OD want to run 40 to 45 mph.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

I have been thinking of some modifications for "touring" that would be nice---a fuel injection/ignition intergrated with knock and mixture control,auto trans, 4 wheel independant suspension with 4 wheel disc brakes, power steering, integrated ac,heat automatic climate control, power heated seat with memory---so if I use the A engine and grille with a motormeter will it still be a model A if some of the other parts come from other cars??

Can a properly restored "blue ribbon" car tour with touring modified cars ---or will they have trouble keeping up?

kurt should we throw in a VVT system also? you know how that sludge can play hell with those sensors

[dlshady]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

<snip>

Now, let's fight over whitewalls been a while

Well, that'd be pointless. Everybody knows that Model A's have blackwalls, just like Chili has beans...

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by dlshady

Well, that'd be pointless. Everybody knows that Model A's have blackwalls, just like Chili has beans...

Whoa....I used to think the same thing, but several years ago I was at the neighbor's and she asked if I wanted a bowl of chili. I told her I didn't like kidney beans, and she said real chili doesn't have beans. She said beans are just used as a filler and if you go to the Texas chili cookoff the winners don't use beans. Her chili was good.

Now, maybe we can convert kidney beans into a Model A fuel, and put corn back on the table.

[dlshady]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Whoa....I used to think the same thing, but several years ago I was at the neighbor's and she asked if I wanted a bowl of chili. I told her I didn't like kidney beans, and she said real chili doesn't have beans. She said beans are just used as a filler and if you go to the Texas chili cookoff the winners don't use beans. Her chili was good.

Now, maybe we can convert kidney beans into a Model A fuel, and put corn back on the table.

BLASPHEMY!

Everybody knows that chili without beans is merely meat sauce...

[Rex_A_Lott]

Ity funny you compare chili and Model A's....there's about as many ways to cook chili as there are people making it...just like everybody's idea of a Model A might be different.
Bowls of chili and Model A's...there are no bad ones, but some are better than the others.

[dlshady]

Originally Posted by Rex_A_Lott

Ity funny you compare chili and Model A's....there's about as many ways to cook chili as there are people making it...just like everybody's idea of a Model A might be different.
Bowls of chili and Model A's...there are no bad ones, but some are better than the others.

That's exactly why I made that comparison.


Now, if we could just do something about those delusional people running around thinking their meat sauce is actually chili...

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Rex_A_Lott

Ity funny you compare chili and Model A's....there's about as many ways to cook chili as there are people making it...just like everybody's idea of a Model A might be different.
Bowls of chili and Model A's...there are no bad ones, but some are better than the others.

Your absolutely right!!!!!

You can make your chili anyway you want. You don't have to add anything specific to make it better but you can experiment.

If you want to enter a chili cook off you have to follow their rules, different rules for different cook-offs. The international chili society has no beans, but a local one may allow it.

The most important person to please is the person making the chili.

[TDO]

I also have made some changes to my 30 coupe , Just dropped in a T-5. I have 16 inch tires . the rest of the coupe is original. It's easier on the car and me . And in todays traffic It's a lot safer. Sure is nice to down shift here in these West Virginia mountains instead of riding the brakes. But on the other hand to each his own. And one other thing , better gas mileage, and at todays gas prices that's a real plus.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I was thinking someone needs to make a planet gear system (overdrive) that would fit inside the bell housing. That way the car would look stock, and the speedometer would always be accurate.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I was thinking someone needs to make a planet gear system (overdrive) that would fit inside the bell housing. That way the car would look stock, and the speedometer would always be accurate.

I have one of those in my car, I call it a 4 speed The shifter is 5 inches back, but you could never tell just looking in the car. At least, nobody's ever walked up and said "wow I can tell you have an overdrive in this one".

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Jordan

I have one of those in my car, I call it a 4 speed The shifter is 5 inches back, but you could never tell just looking in the car. At least, nobody's ever walked up and said "wow I can tell you have an overdrive in this one".

Same here, except that my shifter is only 2 inches back. When I get the carpet re-done, it won't be noticable at all.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Same here, except that my shifter is only 2 inches back. When I get the carpet re-done, it won't be noticable at all.

it's probably closer to 2 inches than 5. I just wasn't near the car when I posted so I couldn't measure.

[Motmo]

I'm relatively new to this hobby and appreciate these conversations. I enjoy hearing both sides of the debate, although not so much the tension it creates.

When I have my car out around town I often find myself in conversations with complete strangers. I share what I have learned and it usually ends up being a fun history lesson for them. It's a great opportunity to keep people both young and old connected to our past.

I support anything someone does that keeps one of these cars out of a barn and puts it out on the road for everyone to enjoy.

It's human nature to stick to what works as much as it is to tinker and explore. I would hope that if we all met face to face we could shake each other's hand and appreciate that we all share a common interest. I wish some of these threads displayed that a little more.

Happy driving everyone!

-Mike

[Dtolson]

I took my first road trip with the truck last weekend. 120 miles to show my 91 year old father. He had a 31 pickup before going in the army in 1941 and it brought back many good memories for him. He snapped the keys up and took off in it! The truck seemed to settle in around 43 mph. I'm not looking for high speeds out the Model A but from a safety standpoint, I was somewhat of a nuisance on the 55 mph state roads. Any suggestions?

[columbiA]

Install an over-drive and you will never drive an A without one,unless you are happy to hold up traffic at 45 or so.As for riding the brakes down a long steep hill,just double -clutch it into 2nd gear and let the engine keep the car at a reasonable speed.It will certainly prolong the life of the brakes.

[Ron W]

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I have the F150 conversion. No double clutching! Downshift at any speed. It's wonderful!
BTW, when someone pulled out in front of me last week, I found that my well adjusted mechanical brakes will squeal the tires if you push hard enough. Ron W

[bettlesr]

I also have the F150 trans. On the last tour we took, it got over 26 MPG.

[Tom Wesenberg]

3.27 ring and pinion or the F150 both seem like good choices for more speed.

Yesterday my neighbor was driving his Army Jeep and pulled onto the shoulder to let faster cars go by. The cop gave him a ticket for driving on the shoulder.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

3.27 ring and pinion or the F150 both seem like good choices for more speed.

Yesterday my neighbor was driving his Army Jeep and pulled onto the shoulder to let faster cars go by. The cop gave him a ticket for driving on the shoulder.

That's what stupid cops do!

[modelAtony]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

Tom,
I strongly considered the F150 method, and have ridden in cars with that setup (it sure is slick) but did not want to cut into the crossmember

If you use the AA bellhousing you do not need to cut anything.

[Ron Lachniet]

You only need to grind about a 1/4 in. in one small area on the cross member and you would never see it. It makes driving a pure pleasure and almost eliminates vibration. I love it!

[Ron W]

Use a kit with AA bellhousing. I did my own and it is close but no cutting of metal. The floor will need to be modified just a little. Other conversions are nice too. Try to find someone with others that you might consider. Ron W

[Terry, NJ]

As a native New Jerseyian, We don't get to meet many Texans here, but I never met one I didn't like! I like your explanation of the situation. While I have made some modifications out of desperation, My only excuse is high cost of maintaining strict adherence to historical standards. This tends to induce a certain mental conflict. I regard these cars as historical atifacts, not playtoys to explore my wilder side with. I'm trying to stick to methods and standards as much as possible. Regards, Terry

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Again, your perception. ....but not a factual statement!





That is probably a very true statement!



With regard to the FS Ignition system, I have actually been a dealer for them for quite a few years now so I am very 'versed' on how they work. I initially installed them on my banger-powered race cars. I also used to (4 to 5+ years ago) install them on quite a few customer's cars. I did that for a couple of reasons. The main reason was back then, reproduction distributor cams were being manufactured off-shore and the points did not break at true 90° apart creating timing issues.

The second reason why I quit was I was experiencing quite a bit of module failures with units I had installed and with folks who had installed their own units. JD & Mel was very helpful with working with me on warrantying them and troubleshooting but the 'pain was not worth the gain' when my customers were having failures while on tour or out driving. Paying a tow bill to get back home and the stress' involved with the downtime slowly created customers asking why are we doing this.

Then along comes a US manufactured dist. cam. that is CNC machined with exacting tolerances while simultaneously designed to increase the coil saturation time to increase the coil's spark output. Adding to that was my ability to hone housing bushings instead of reaming them and the quality of shaft fit came up where the distributer could produce a timed spark very near what a 'Hall-effect' triggered system could produce.

Later in time we concluded that it was a voltage spike and/or an intermittent ground issue that was the likely culprit of the FS failures. Again, running extra wires to circumvent this, or carrying extra distributors/modules as back-ups for the minute gain just did not seem practical. So for me it begs the question just how hot of a spark is necessary to have a good running engine? My view is for a low-compression engine such as a Model-A (under 7½:1 CR), "lighting off" the fuel mixture is not that hard to do with a stock ignition system, especially with the combustion chamber design and slow RPMs. Maybe I am still "gun-shy", ...or maybe I'm just lazy, but if a set of points will create nearly the same result with less cost and greater reliability, why take the chance?

So I guess I will back-up and offer my apologies for stirring the pot. It is your car, and you are the one that it must please. Best wishes to you and I bid you many happy and safe touring miles ahead.

(signed; from a former Texan himself)

.

[inex01]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

if you could have absolutely no wobble or play in the dizzy shaft...if you could have the cam lobes absolutely the same exact distance apart and all absolutely the same exact height...
e-ignition changes all this...the spark is in the exact right place at the exact right time each and every time, for each and every cyl. and yes it has centrif. advance...and if i didn't see/drive/hear it myself i never would have believed it. Now I can see why these are used extensively in the Great Race. The engine vibration is nearly non-existent and the nasty harmonic is gone. This has to be intuitively better for the bearings, and if you can't believe the bearings will be happier please don't waste valuable bandwidth by complaining about it.

I installed my FS Ignitions yesterday in my 31 Sedan in the stock distributor and totally agree with all your comments, I can hardly believe how much smoother and seems to have more performance.

[sphanna]

"OK, first off I am in this for all the touring I can get. So if you don't like what I have done, simply put, don't do it. This post is for the benefit of those who have considered these changes for their car but weren't sure about them. And, the Dallas club has a bunch of excellent tours every yr."


"This all boils down to being easier on the car and easier on the driver."

tbirdtbird: I appreciate carefully restored stock A's. I also appreciate those who do as you have inorder to make their cars safer and more relaxing for touring.

I'm giving you credit for your well thought out mods to your car. The first paragraph explains your intent for the post. Your last sentence also was appropiate and true. I give you credit to have the good sense to know your car's limitations and your common sense operating skills.

I personally appreciate your post. You made no attempt to diminish other's way of thinking. I can see that your post could be helpful to some who were weighing the pros and cons of some of the mods. Some of the comments do not give you proper respect for having common sense in what you do.

I have some of the mods on my car and you are correct. Some mods are easier on the car and enhance the driving comfort. I hope to meet you on a tour sometime.

[1wonton]

I prefer the quirks and idiosycrasies of my original car. I grew up trusting the original product and would be ashamed of driving a Frankenstein car. Why not put a Pinto engine in it, radial white-wall tires, 12 volt battery, etc., etc., etc. A Model A is a Model A and when you start changing it you loose the experience and fun of the original car.

[1crosscut]

Brings to mind the movie Ground Hogs Day..............
Are we off and running again???

[Rex_A_Lott]

Probably so...A funny coincidence, I had chili for dinner and then I opened this up. Happy Thanksgiving!

[bill44]

I think they are great improvements. I like to tour too, and have done a lot of modifications to make touring easier. Most of which cannot be seen unless you know what you are looking for.

[denis4x4]

The roads in the late twenties, early thirties were such that a stock A was more than adequate as a touring car. Too, there was nowhere near the traffic we incur today. I know that there are purists out there that run thousand of miles every summer with stock A's, sometimes on the interstates. My hat's off to those hardy souls. On the other hand, I prefer to equip my A with aftermarket products that make my touring experiences less stressful by MY standards. If we were to strictly adhere to the standards set by Brent and Ryan, this would be one of the most boring sites on the Internet!

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

If we were to strictly adhere to the standards set by Brent and Ryan, this would be one of the most boring sites on the Internet!

Thanks for the laugh but Oh so true!!!

[Larry Jenkins]

Another Ahooga?

Larry

[TDO]

My coupe is a driver not a show car. And I have some modifications ,such as a T-5 transmission , 16 inch wheels with 215/75r16 radials. And I love all of them . I feel it's much safer to drive on these modern highways. Although I still don't drive on interstates. And I have LED tail and brake lights. To each his own.

[Henry's Lady's Man]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

OK, you naysayers are correct and I am wrong, I spent all night removing all that stuff from the car. You are correct, an engine with less vibration will not make any difference to the babbitt at all. Turning 2200 @ 70 is of no help, lets just wind it up to 2500 rpm or more and totally fall off the torque curve, you are right. Yep, lets put in a 3.27 and be ready for the mountains. why not a 2.81, I have contacted Snyders to have that special set cut just for me.
In fact, I not only removed all the stuff I mentioned, but I went back in time even more and installed a pile of Model T stuff, it is even older and thus must be even better on today's busy interstates. Man it was all I could do to get that magneto flywheel on that A, but I did it !!!
In fact, why drive it at all? Just trailer it and you'll never have to worry about any of this; that is my next move. Actually why have the car at all?

I have been in 2 clubs and both have had a couple killed and the car destroyed by trucks coming up behind them and smashing them because they were slower than surrounding traffic, but why would anyone care about that?

As I said at the outset, if you don't like it don't do it...which means if you don't like it, don't do it. Run your car however you want. Use rubber band drive; put in a Briggs and Stratton, how about a make&break; what about cucumber drive?

I think some folks on the forum have forgotten to take their medication.

Now, I think some of these folks did not read the disclaimer... if you don't like it, just do your own thing.
I have no problem (ok, maybe just a little) with someone making their A a little smoother and faster in the city or on long tours. So TBird, go for it and ignore the negativity. It's your car anyway.
I know a lot of folks in my club that want me to change this or that. I personally like original. Mine has been that way all these years and I sorta respect that. You can't get it back once it's gone. BUT THAT'S ME! Wifey and I just went on our maiden voyage of 300 miles in Bonnie, and we kept at 45 to 50, even on the 75 mph hwy! Did I piss off truckers? or some of the club members? sure I did. But tough titties! I did my own thing. Maybe our club should go in two groups... fast and slow. They can eat all the best donuts and we'll get leftovers when we come pluggin' along.
I have no argument with you, TBird.

[Henry's Lady's Man]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

See, Model A'ing & discussions about it, CAN be great fun, without anyone gettin' their undies twisted or foamin' at the mouth. Even with my house A.C. on the fritz, it's been a good day! Bill W.

AC? Jeepers, Bill, this is November!
Chuck

[Y-Blockhead]

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Originally Posted by Henry's Lady's Man

AC? Jeepers, Bill, this is November!
Chuck

Ummm... It was JULY when Bill wrote that. AND it was over two years ago, 7/24/13!!! Hope he has his A/C repaired by now...

[Henry's Lady's Man]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Ummm... It was JULY when Bill wrote that. AND it was over two years ago, 7/24/13!!!

Ha, I just saw that. Someone decided to raise a dead post. My bad.

[mike657894]

some people just want to argue
. i like the points you made and are things I may consider. I do want to drive my car out of state and there seems to be stretches that you have to get on the freeway.

[Dodge]

I have one of each...a completely stock one to enjoy as original and one all the goodies
on it. I like them both just two different rides for different types of driving...

[inex01]

Originally Posted by Dodge

I have one of each...a completely stock one to enjoy as original and one all the goodies
on it. I like them both just two different rides for different types of driving...

Like you I have two cars, a totally stock #s matching 31 Roadster and a 31 Slant sedan that has a Touring Engine, Overdrive, Radial Tires, Cast Iron Drums, Pannard Bar and a couple of days ago installed electronic ignition. I really enjoy both cars.

When I sell the sedan it can always be brought back to original because I saved everything that I up-graded so no harm done, but in the meantime I have a car that is more enjoyable, comfortable and safe to drive in the current environment.

[Synchro909]

As terrific as Model As were in their day, if they were to be produced today, they wouldn't be allowed on the road. I have had MANY miles of enjoyment out of a standard car and one modified for touring so I can see both sides of the story.
We have another long trip coming up in May next year of about 8 thousand miles, towing all the way. Think I will use the modified car.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

As terrific as Model As were in their day, if they were to be produced today, they wouldn't be allowed on the road. I have had MANY miles of enjoyment out of a standard car and one modified for touring so I can see both sides of the story.
We have another long trip coming up in May next year of about 8 thousand miles, towing all the way. Think I will use the modified car.

That's true, but not necessarily a good thing. As the government tries to mandate how cars must be built to protect us from our own bad driving, the side effect is to make driver's less careful. It's the same thing with salting the roads so no one has to drive on snow or ice. Now with the first snowfall there is a rash of accidents due to careless driving.

If I lived in a hot climate I'd want air conditioning also, and it's hard to drive on many roads without increasing speed above what the Model A was meant to be driven, so a high speed ring and pinion or overdrive is also a big help.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

That's true, but not necessarily a good thing. As the government tries to mandate how cars must be built to protect us from our own bad driving, the side effect is to make driver's less careful. It's the same thing with salting the roads so no one has to drive on snow or ice. Now with the first snowfall there is a rash of accidents due to careless driving.

If I lived in a hot climate I'd want air conditioning also, and it's hard to drive on many roads without increasing speed above what the Model A was meant to be driven, so a high speed ring and pinion or overdrive is also a big help.

Tom, I agree with that! I have a theory that if cars were made without brakes, nobody would go fast enough to cause a crash bad enough to injure a person, let alone kill them. There'd be plenty of dented cars running around but a whole lot less hearses.

[apbright]

In case t-bird is still reading this for information, here is my experience:
- High compression head (6:1): Gave significant more power, enough to drive in city and freeway traffic without feeling like a roadblock
- Mitchell Overdrive (26%): Gave significant improvement in hill-climbing ability (2nd + overdrive), as 2nd was too high, 3rd was too low for many San Francisco area hills; provided significant improvement in freeway driving (reduced engine noise, better comfort at driving 55-60mph)
- Steering damper: less wandering of car in rutted or uneven pavement
- Panhard bar, rear (just added yesterday): improved stability on freeway, especially on Finland's rutted freeways (metal studded tires are mandatory Dec - Feb., creating significant ruts on many freeways)

I am considering changing the rear from stock to a 1:3.54, even with with the 26% overdrive, for lower engine revs while freeway cruising; I have the gears, but haven't found the time to install them yet.

[jscott07922]

My first car was a 29 Model A, which I bought using my mustering out pay from US Army in 1946. I bought it in 1947. It was a open cab pickup. A friend and I put a mattress in the back. We then set off from Tucson, Arizona, ad drove it to Kansas. We picked apples at my friend's grandfather's farm, and peddled them around the area. Then on to New York city, and up to New Hampshire. Then on to Chicago, and to Denver, and through Montrose and Silverton, Colorado. We ended up back in Tucson. On this trip, I had to have the engine worked on, burned out the generator, and broke a leaf in the front spring. The next year, made a round trip from Tucson to Los Angeles. Coast to coast in a Model A!

[inex01]

Originally Posted by jscott07922

My first car was a 29 Model A, which I bought using my mustering out pay from US Army in 1946. I bought it in 1947. It was a open cab pickup. A friend and I put a mattress in the back. We then set off from Tucson, Arizona, ad drove it to Kansas. We picked apples at my friend's grandfather's farm, and peddled them around the area. Then on to New York city, and up to New Hampshire. Then on to Chicago, and to Denver, and through Montrose and Silverton, Colorado. We ended up back in Tucson. On this trip, I had to have the engine worked on, burned out the generator, and broke a leaf in the front spring. The next year, made a round trip from Tucson to Los Angeles. Coast to coast in a Model A!

What a adventure! that is one adventure I would really like to do in the future, pack up my 31 Slant sedan and hit the road, I would take as many back roads as possible. Today I turned 65! still operating my business and this is very tempting, my runway is getting shorter and shorter so this may be the time to make some changes, but changes are tough. Bottom line thanks for sharing your story it just may trigger a decision!

[Brian29]

I think a lot of the mods are interesting, but not real dire necessity. My 29 is stock except for turn signals and iron drums. I used to just use hand signals but the dumb asses driving today thought I was waving! I find the stock stuff works fine. I've driven quite far in it, just stay off main roads. Usually if there is a right lane, no one bothers me. Most of the time they slow down to look at it or take pictures. I have found that lots of the guys who have the mods on tours don't know how to fix them and have no extra parts, they should. Most guys have the stock stuff and know how to fix it, and usually it can be done easier on the road. But, as said before, to each his own. If I had the storage, time and money I think it would be fun to build a modifies speedster. Just to add a thought from my father, who was a great mechanic, "stop screwing with it and drive it".

[tbirdtbird]

This thread prolly makes no sense anymore.
I simply began it as informative based on my personal experience. In no way did I ever suggest the mods I made were essential. I am aware that various owners have often contemplated, 'what if I made this particular mod to the car?", and I was merely attempting to address that.

Several of the responses I felt were outrageous, abusive, inflammatory, and non-contributory, and ignored the disclaimer that I included which was simply, 'if you don;'t like it don't do it'.
Those people have been invited to have lunch with me for free, but no one has ever taken me up on my offer. However, that offer still stands.

I soon deleted the details of my initial post.

In the Dallas club we think nothing of doing 1000 mile tours at the drop of a hat, and there are times you cannot avoid the interstates. Most of us have incorporated various types of uneccessary mods. Before you respond, first tell us exactly what you do with your car.

"but not real dire necessity"
At no time was it said that they were

Appropriate, helpful responses here would be not to focus on the issue of necessity, since it was already agreed they are not essential, but rather to state your personal experience with similar mods; such as , well, I have a Mitchell and I don't like it because......; or I have AC but I don't like it because......

[inex01]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

This thread prolly makes no sense anymore.
I simply began it as informative based on my personal experience. In no way did I ever suggest the mods I made were essential. I am aware that various owners have often contemplated, 'what if I made this particular mod to the car?", and I was merely attempting to address that.

Several of the responses I felt were outrageous and abusive, and non-contributory, and ignored the disclaimer that I included which was simply, 'if you don;'t like it don't do it'.
Those people have been invited to have lunch with me for free, but no one has ever taken me up on my offer. However, that offer still stands.

I soon deleted the details of my initial post.

In the Dallas club we think nothing of doing 1000 mile tours and there are times you cannot avoid the interstates. Most of us have incorporated various types of uneccessary mods. Before you respond, first tell us exactly what you do with your car.

"but not real dire necessity"
At no time was it said that they were

Appropriate, helpful responses here would be not to focus on the issue of necessity, since it was already agreed they are not essential, but rather to state your personal experience with similar mods; such as , well, I have a Mitchell and I don't like it because......; or I have AC but I don't like it because......

My Roadster is "Mod" free and my Slant sedan has every "Mod" I wanted and was able to install to make it a "Real World" driver. Yes I like them both equally but use each for different events, around town the Roadster on trips the Slant. Because I do my own wrenching I know what to do if one of my "Mods" fail because I carry the needed backups, but all systems have worked perfectly to date.

My feeling is that you bought the car and can do whatever you like, if you are a "Purest" just focus on your own, same for people like me I focus on my own cars and sincerely care less what anyone says, they did not buy my car for me, then do not pay for my insurance or pay for my fuel so the heck with the critics !

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

This thread prolly makes no sense anymore.
I simply began it as informative based on my personal experience. In no way did I ever suggest the mods I made were essential. I am aware that various owners have often contemplated, 'what if I made this particular mod to the car?", and I was merely attempting to address that.

Several of the responses I felt were outrageous and abusive, and non-contributory, and ignored the disclaimer that I included which was simply, 'if you don;'t like it don't do it'.
Those people have been invited to have lunch with me for free, but no one has ever taken me up on my offer. However, that offer still stands.

I soon deleted the details of my initial post.

In the Dallas club we think nothing of doing 1000 mile tours and there are times you cannot avoid the interstates. Most of us have incorporated various types of uneccessary mods. Before you respond, first tell us exactly what you do with your car.

"but not real dire necessity"
At no time was it said that they were

Appropriate, helpful responses here would be not to focus on the issue of necessity, since it was already agreed they are not essential, but rather to state your personal experience with similar mods; such as , well, I have a Mitchell and I don't like it because......; or I have AC but I don't like it because......

Free lunch????? Don't tell me ,,,,,,,,,,,,is chili on the menu?

[Mike V. Florida]

We do realize that this thread is 3 years old right? And the list of what was done was erased a year ago.

[inex01]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

We do realize that this thread is 3 years old right? And the list of what was done was erased a year ago.

It is a super post and is a great refresher Mike

[Ed Saniewski]

See post #16 on page one for the original post by Tbirdtbird.