generator or alternator

[machine girl]

what to do?

[mantta]

Keep it original-----Generator!

[kenparker]

alternator - less headaches.

[Aok]

Best to make your own choice both will charge battery Also they both have pros and cons do a search and you will see

[Fred]

Originally Posted by kenparker

alternator - less headaches.

Take two asprin & use a generator !!

[Kevin in NJ]

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Properly rebuilt the generator will just need some oil and adjusting the third brush for next several generations that your family owns the car. The generator will let you run the direct replacement halogen head lamps. This is contrary to the advice you get from the stores that sell alternators, they may have a vested interest in selling you something.

Add in a voltage regulator to eliminate the 3rd brush adjusting.

An alternator was a great thing for mechanics. They got to do more repairs on the cars that were quick and easy.
The V belt on the alternator is never tight enough to produce near the rated output. Look up how tight the V belt is supposed to be on the alt. Most are so loose you can spin the pulley.
Some single wire alt will put a slight drain on the battery.
It seems that there have been more people having troubles with their trouble free alternators on this board then generator people have generator problems.

[SHEC]

ALTERNATOR IN THE REAL WORLD OF TODAY'S DRIVING-generator for authentic/looks/point scoring - etc.

I drive quite some distance all year - thus an alternator for me........... other than that - all stock '30 Dlx. Cpe.

HAVE FUN -

"SHEC"

[AL in NY]

I have the best of both worlds with my new Russ Evans 50 amp, 6 volt, positive ground alternator built in a Model A generator housing. And it will pass fine point judging!!

[Willie Krash]

I own an Alternator starter shop. I use a generator. Alternators just don't look right. Just my opinion. If I had to have an alternator I'd go Al's way, if I could afford it.
Admittedly I'm a fair weather driver, and drive for pleasure.

[AL in NY]

After getting caught driving in the fog at night while at the New England meet last September, my wife told me if she was going to ride in my truck after dark, I better get some better headlights. Well, this alternator is step number one in that upgrade..............It's nice to get the wife's blessing on big ticket items, considering my Model A generator didn't need replacing.

[Purdy Swoft]

I also prefer the generator. I've run alternators and every one has failed. I also got lots of rude comments about my cars that had alternators. Comments like it didn't come with an alternator and If I had a model A I would want it to have a generator. I can rebuild my own generators. I really don't know anything about an alternator and when it quits working, its just an expensive throw away. I use the Fun Projects can style voltage regulators with my generators and never have a problem with either. One thing that is really a novelty to me is that you can run the model A generator on 12 volts with no modification, can use the original wiring harnesses, original ammeter and not a single wire needs to be reversed , as long as you run positive ground. I don't run any electrical accessories and don't feel that I want or need any. I have no problems running two tail lights for safety and my tail lights, brake lights, and headlights are bright. It cranks so quick that you can hardly let off the starter button quick enough. I love it and have often said that I have the best of both worlds.

[Kurt in NJ]

You don't need an alternator to have bright lights that you can SEE with, you just need good lights

Poorly focused very bright lights would be worse in fog --all you would get is bright fog

[msmaron]

Let Tom Wesenberg chime in with hsi unit for generators..You can use the generator and put in toms little regulator and run anything.

[ctlikon0712]

Mark, I was just going to say a Generator with Tom Wesenberg's EVR! The best of both worlds and you don't have to run the fan belt tight enough to ensure the alternator doesn't slip and then damage the water pump bearing!

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Fred

Take two asprin & use a generator !!

LOL, that was great Fred!

Generator is the way to go, much less trouble. I haven't touched mine since I rebuilt it 15 years ago and installed my EVR. It's so trouble free that the only reason I ever look at the ammeter is to make sure the brake light hasn't burned out.

[Duffy1]

I run an alternator,air conditioner compressor and water pump on one belt . No problem. Tighten fan belt as you normally would.

[columbiA]

Over the past 60 years &16 model A,s,I have never seen the need for an alternator.I have stock lights with 32-32 bulbs and they work very well.The engine cranks over quickly with good grounds every where.If you are running AC and other high draw items,then you need 12V & an alt.As for me,I hate the looks of an alt on an A.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

I love the way alternators look.

[BashawT]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

I have the best of both worlds with my new Russ Evans 50 amp, 6 volt, positive ground alternator built in a Model A generator housing. And it will pass fine point judging!!

What is the cost of one of these?

[Mike V. Florida]

I drive quite some distance all year - thus an generator for me.

If an Alt makes you feel better and will get/keep you on the road get one! My point has always been you don't need one.

[ctlikon0712]

I'm not familiar with the Russ Evans one..... I knew about this company's but its pulley is quite obviously "not right". Still a neat idea.

http://gener-nator.com/big_genernator.htm

[Patrick L.]

Easy , generator with one of Tom W's regulators.

[1931 flamingo]

This is another "what kind of oil to use ?'s" JMO
Paul in CT

[Fred]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

This is another "what kind of oil to use ?'s" JMO
Paul in CT

More like "HOW" deep are your pockets for the ALT...

[Bob-A]

My '29 roadster came with a 12 volt negative grnd. alternator, so I'm leaving it that way. But I do not like the idea of having to push the RPMs up to "excite" the alternator so it will charge. My '31 roadster and '29 Chevy both use 6 volt Delco-Remy generators, the "A" positive grnd. and
the Chevy negative grnd. I think the Delco gennies are a little more heavier-duty and with the correct Delco cut-out they will produce a few
more amps then the stock "A" gennies. Plus, I like collecting old odd-ball accessories and have come across 2 of the aftermarket brackets used to
mount the Delco gennies on "A's".

Bob-A

[Rock Hornbuckle]

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This question is about personal opinion. Which kind of cords do you have in your tires, Original Cotton, modern polyester, steel radials?

[AL in NY]

The Russ Evans alternator is $365.00 plus shipping. He has no stock and they are hand-built and made-to-order. He builds the alternator so it is correct for your car and like I said above, it will pass fine points judging. He can be reached at 805-813-0480. The other fellow who makes look-a-like alternators is Don Allan at http://gener-nator.com, but these units are around $900.00 and there is a core charge if you can't supply him with an original generator. Also, Don's alternators will not pass fine point judging.

The Russ Evans alternator wins this hands down and he is a very nice gentleman and Model A owner to deal with. No deposit needed when you order. Payment is made before he ships.

[Duffy1]

Bob A ;

You should not have to rev up the engine to excite the alternator . Mine does it at idle.

[fordcoupe]

Alternator on my 31 coupe car came that way generator on my 28 RPU both work well. But i like the looks of the Gen. and cutout

[Keith True]

I've never really understood the worry about having to rev the engine to excite the alternator.People get into changing pulleys,adding an exciter wire,etc.SO WHAT if it doesn't charge when you first start it? It will when you drive off.You are NOT going to run that battery down one bit idling to warm it up.I don't have any reason to use an alternator unless I want to use high draw things or electronic ignition.Working on equipment my whole life I've had far more trouble with alternators than generators.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Duffy1

Bob A ;

You should not have to rev up the engine to excite the alternator . Mine does it at idle.

Hey Duffy,
You most likely are running a THREE wire alt..no? Bob is running a ONE wire...and that's the difference. Google it (i.we-one wire alt vs three wire alt) and you'll read why!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

It's an easy decision, if you desire your battery to always be fully charged, & to never be overcharged & boiling the water out, get an ALTERNATOR. ~~~~~Bill W.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

It's an easy decision, if you desire your battery to always be fully charged, & to never be overcharged & boiling the water out, get an ALTERNATOR. ~~~~~Bill W.

Bill, no, no, no, that's why voltage regulators are made for generators!!!
Actually I've seen a few alternators overcharging the batteries.

I checked my battery water once about 4 years ago and I'll probably check it again this year before I start driving, but so far I've never had to add water.

[Duffy1]

Hardtimes;

I have a one wire alternator . 62amp ,1972 chevy truck . Start car, let idle and in about 10 seconds it is excited and charging .

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

It's an easy decision, if you desire your battery to always be fully charged, & to never be overcharged & boiling the water out, get an ALTERNATOR. ~~~~~Bill W.

My battery is alway charged, has never been over charged and the water never boiled out and I have a generator.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey Duffy,
You most likely are running a THREE wire alt..no? Bob is running a ONE wire...and that's the difference. Google it (i.we-one wire alt vs three wire alt) and you'll read why!

Not exactly true, there are self exciting voltage regulators. The problem is one does not always know if the unit they have has this regulator. (Delco number D10SE6 for 6 volt and D10SE12 for 12 volt)

While I don't run an alternator does not mean I don't know about them.

[Milton]

Originally Posted by Fred

More like "HOW" deep are your pockets for the ALT...

If you're buying the alternator from from a Model A vendor say about $140 plus shipping. From a normal parts dealer say $72 + $10 core plus tax.

A generator will set you back $179 + $100 core + cutout $23 to $70 plus shipping.

If my pockets are deep enough for a generator then they are deep enough for three alternators.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Bill, no, no, no, that's why voltage regulators are made for generators!!!
Actually I've seen a few alternators overcharging the batteries.

I checked my battery water once about 4 years ago and I'll probably check it again this year before I start driving, but so far I've never had to add water.

Easy, Tom! Dog here, we jist seein' if you're AWAKE! Bill's not adimate, (whatever that means?) about alternators, had good luck with one on Minerva, running generator & an Optima & virtually all "BONE" stock on Vermin for a whole different experience. Speaking of BONE, Just got my FIRST real bone from Bill's latest creation of Mamma's Ham Hocks & Pinto's He did sumptin' to the beans so he don't go PFTAART??? (Hope it works) Buster T.

[sturgis39]

I run a power house generator that i bought from Ron Rude. I love the look and it works great.

[ctlikon0712]

Hmmm, I bought my 3 Generators for $10 at a MARC meet in Saint Augustine from guys who had gone to those ugly Alternators. All of them were in great condition and one was correct for my year(cast iron rear bushing plate). Ive had that one on for 2 years without trouble. I sold the other two for $50 and I just put one of Tom's EVR's on it so I have less than $50 in what I have!
Thanks alternator guys!

[Jordan]

Love my alternator. If I had a car I just drove occasionally, I would just leave it however it came. But personally, I drive all the time and I just like not having to worry about the charging rate. I have to have a 12v alternator for my accessories, but I use to have a 6v alternator and I wouldn't of changed back. Whatever floats your boat.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Milton

If you're buying the alternator from from a Model A vendor say about $140 plus shipping.

Brattons Part #14970 $199.00 Bracket 30.00

From a normal parts dealer say $72 + $10 core plus tax.
Can't find a part number for a parts store single wire alt in 6 volts

A generator will set you back $179 + $100 core + cutout $23 to $70 plus shipping.

Brattons Generator ( Part #14890 or 14880) 215.00 exchange.


If my pockets are deep enough for a generator then they are deep enough for three alternators.

....

[Christoph]

Alternators are UGLY

Prob of alternator is, that they are made for top-speed
of 16000 to 22000 rpm (today). Ratio is created to meet
top-revs of engine with top-revs of alt.
Not having the space to get this ratio into your A, you will allways
have a real high "start-rev" of the alternator and not reaching
the built-in-power ....
You will run the alt powerwise way below "design-speed"
(no prob if output is sufficient to your needs)
Low revs of alt is a good thing as bearings will last forever

[Bob-A]

Duffy1 & Keith True,

The alternator is a one wire and after a few minutes of warming up and oil pumping I race the engine to get the aternator "excited"..... Next time I go for a drive I'll not excite the alternator on purpose and wait and see
when it does. Thanks guys!

Bob-A

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Milton

If you're buying the alternator from from a Model A vendor say about $140 plus shipping. From a normal parts dealer say $72 + $10 core plus tax.

A generator will set you back $179 + $100 core + cutout $23 to $70 plus shipping.

If my pockets are deep enough for a generator then they are deep enough for three alternators.

Wow, I like your thinking!! With that same mindset we could also put on fiberglass fenders because they are cheaper & easier to fix than steel, and while we're at it, maybe replace the wheels & tires with ones from a 70's Ford pick-up because they are ½ the price. Oh and instead of replacing the windows with glass, we could use sheet plastic because it is less money too, oh and we can use naugahyde reminants from WalMart for upholstery instead. Oh and that paint at Tractor Supply is much cheaper too...

[Phil]

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Everyone I know that that runs an altnator or 12 volts has issues. Since my first Model a 50+ years ago my generators have been the least of my very few problems.

[AL in NY]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

I have the best of both worlds with my new Russ Evans 50 amp, 6 volt, positive ground alternator built in a Model A generator housing. And it will pass fine point judging!!

If you don't like the "looks" of an alternator, get one of Russ Evans's units!!!

[al's28/33]

I have a Powerhouse Genny with Tom W.'s EVR unit as well as a unit from Russ Evans as a backup. The look of an original looking engine compartment cannot be beat. A modern alternator in an 85 year old car just doesn't look right. You might as well have a Pinto engine under your "A" hood.

[Fred]

I have had the same Power House generator & cut out on my 1928 since 1964 and have NEVER had a dead or cooked or low on water problem !! It sits in a NON-heated garage & yes I put a tender on it every winter...I did adjust its out-put one time...

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Fred

I have had the same Power House generator & cut out on my 1928 since 1964 and have NEVER had a dead or cooked or low on water problem !! It sits in a NON-heated garage & yes I put a tender on it every winter...I did adjust its out-put one time...

Good morning, Fred,
I'm glad you've had trouble free service. A tender seems to be very "kind" to a battery, as I believe they are only around 1/2 AMP output. A trickle charger continuously at 2 AMPS is tough on batteries! Are the Powerhouse generators thought to be superior to the stock, long generators & would my Early '29 Coupe have had one? Production date is 6-4-29, IF engine # *A1678152* (original stamping) matches the frame. It has NO firewall date. I admire the "unique" appearance of the Powerhouse. Bill W.

[jrelliott]

I am converting back to 6V and putting a correct Powerhouse Gen on the vehicle to make it correct for that year. Will add a Tom W's regulator to it before complete crossover. Have the 12V alternator with the excite wire so do not have to rev the engine to get charging. I just like the looks of the powerhouse over the alternator. One thing you cannot do with an alternator is a push start.

[Dale G.]

No one has suggested the voltage regulator that looks like a cut-out made by Fun Projects. This goes on the generator like the cut-out. I have used them for years and have worked for me.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Good morning, Fred,
I'm glad you've had trouble free service. A tender seems to be very "kind" to a battery, as I believe they are only around 1/2 AMP output. A trickle charger continuously at 2 AMPS is tough on batteries! Are the Powerhouse generators thought to be superior to the stock, long generators & would my Early '29 Coupe have had one? Production date is 6-4-29, IF engine # *A1678152* (original stamping) matches the frame. It has NO firewall date. I admire the "unique" appearance of the Powerhouse. Bill W.

First, Your coupe is not considered "EARLY", Its "MID" & yes it should have a P/H Generator on it.. They were used thru July,1929..

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by Dale Gosa in Jacksonv

No one has suggested the voltage regulator that looks like a cut-out made by Fun Projects. This goes on the generator like the cut-out. I have used them for years and have worked for me.

I use the Fun Projects can style regulators. See post number 11. I love them and they work flawlessly for me. I use the 12 volt positive ground version on my roadster. Actually They can be had in six, eight or twelve volt, in positive or negative ground.

[Milton]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

....

Originally Posted by Milton
If you're buying the alternator from from a Model A vendor say about $140 plus shipping.

Brattons Part #14970 $199.00 Bracket 30.00
Mac's Part #: A10000A12 $139.95

From a normal parts dealer say $72 + $10 core plus tax.
Can't find a part number for a parts store single wire alt in 6 volts
My price was for 12v

Quick Start High Output Alternators # D110SiSE6V35P 6V 35 Amp 10Si Series Self Exciting (One-Wire) Positive Ground Alternator Price: $129.95

35 Amp, 6 Volt Delco Remy type 10Si series positive ground alternator with self exciting (one-wire) internal voltage regulator.

A generator will set you back $179 + $100 core + cutout $23 to $70 plus shipping.

Brattons Generator ( Part #14890 or 14880) 215.00 exchange.
Mac's Generator (Part #: A10000SN or A10000LN) $179.00 exchange

In my previous life I was a professional estimator. Since this was a quick quote I used Mac's online, it's easier.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Milton

Originally Posted by Milton
If you're buying the alternator from from a Model A vendor say about $140 plus shipping.

Brattons Part #14970 $199.00 Bracket 30.00
Mac's Part #: A10000A12 $139.95

From a normal parts dealer say $72 + $10 core plus tax.
Can't find a part number for a parts store single wire alt in 6 volts
My price was for 12v

Quick Start High Output Alternators # D110SiSE6V35P 6V 35 Amp 10Si Series Self Exciting (One-Wire) Positive Ground Alternator Price: $129.95

35 Amp, 6 Volt Delco Remy type 10Si series positive ground alternator with self exciting (one-wire) internal voltage regulator.

A generator will set you back $179 + $100 core + cutout $23 to $70 plus shipping.

Brattons Generator ( Part #14890 or 14880) 215.00 exchange.
Mac's Generator (Part #: A10000SN or A10000LN) $179.00 exchange

In my previous life I was a professional estimator. Since this was a quick quote I used Mac's online, it's easier.

Thank you!! I feel it is important that we post the where we find the prices as they seem to be all over the place.

[Milton]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Wow, I like your thinking!! With that same mindset we could also put on fiberglass fenders because they are cheaper & easier to fix than steel, and while we're at it, maybe replace the wheels & tires with ones from a 70's Ford pick-up because they are ½ the price. Oh and instead of replacing the windows with glass, we could use sheet plastic because it is less money too, oh and we can use naugahyde reminants from WalMart for upholstery instead. Oh and that paint at Tractor Supply is much cheaper too...

I like your thinking also!! Better yet forget the fenders and call it a Speedster, maybe some 16" wheels and tires from a mid 30's Ford from E-bay because who cares about price. Glass... we don't need no stinking glass, this is a Speedster same for the naugahyde, who needs it, bare metal bomber seats, the only way to save. Oh yah, Home Depot sells paint in rattle cans.....

Now go re-read my original post and you will see I was contradicting a poster that stated alternators required deep pockets.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by machine girl

what to do?

Hey machine girl,
Well did you get anything usefull out of this ? Hopefully, this type of discussion doesn't scare you...and/or run you off! As you can see(read) it's all a matter of opinion/experience/attitude...or visee versee! Hmm, want to have some fun? Ask about what oil to use and why

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey machine girl,
Well did you get anything usefull out of this ? Hopefully, this type of discussion doesn't scare you...and/or run you off! As you can see(read) it's all a matter of opinion/experience/attitude...or visee versee! Hmm, want to have some fun? Ask about what oil to use and why

Or if an oil filter, air filter is needed, how about how often to change the oil, and if Vapor lock is real on a Model A.

OH, how about halogen bulbs, 12 volts and juice brakes.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Milton

I like your thinking also!! Better yet forget the fenders and call it a Speedster, maybe some 16" wheels and tires from a mid 30's Ford from E-bay because who cares about price. Glass... we don't need no stinking glass, this is a Speedster same for the naugahyde, who needs it, bare metal bomber seats, the only way to save. Oh yah, Home Depot sells paint in rattle cans.....

Now go re-read my original post and you will see I was contradicting a poster that stated alternators required deep pockets.

So you were contradicting me, Well if you READ post # 27 I think you will find the price of a CHEAP one @ $365.00 & another @ $900.00.. I can buy a gen. @ a flea market for $10.00, ($20.00) on E-bay & rebuild it for for less than the shipping cost of either one of the "DEEP POCKET ONES" that are not needed...

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Wow, I like your thinking!! With that same mindset we could also put on fiberglass fenders because they are cheaper & easier to fix than steel, and while we're at it, maybe replace the wheels & tires with ones from a 70's Ford pick-up because they are ½ the price. Oh and instead of replacing the windows with glass, we could use sheet plastic because it is less money too, oh and we can use naugahyde reminants from WalMart for upholstery instead. Oh and that paint at Tractor Supply is much cheaper too...

. Insert smiley face ..Thinking back over the years, I've done all of those things with slight variations. In the seventies I put a set of fiberglass rear fenders on our coupe because I didn't have any and Ricks fenders were only about thirty something dollars each. I didn't have much money, they looked ok and it was still a model A. I replaced the fiberglass fenders in the ninties with new steel fenders. When I got the coupe, I hauled it home in pieces with lots of parts missing. it didn't have any door glass. I had an old gun case with plexiglass in the doors. I used a hand saw and carefully cut out door glasses for the coupe .My first model A was a strip down with 50 mercury 15 inch wheels and spun aluminum disc hubcaps. I liked hot rods and it was quite a thrill for a 13 year old. It had a stack for an exhaust but it was my hot rod model A and it would chick-ah-lunk with the spark retarded. I've still got it but its got some cool aluminum wheels with big and little tires that my son in law gave me. My first model A had a 1950 De Soto generator that uncle Ray and I rigged up negative ground and it worked good. The sealed beam headlamps were bright. We didn't have a Walmart way back then but aunt Grace made up a seat cover out of some used vinyl that she had and we installed it. I painted my first two model A's with a brush and Fix All enamel from the local hardware store. I wasn't a bodyman-painter then but with a good nylon bristle brush they looked good to me at the time.Everybody doesn't necessarily care about a points show car but still love model A's whether they are perfect original or not . All of these things can be reversed and these sort of things has preserved a lot of model A's that otherwise would have been scrapped. Just my humble thoughts.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

. Insert smiley face ..Thinking back over the years, I've done all of those things with slight variations. In the seventies I put a set of fiberglass rear fenders on our coupe because I didn't have any and Ricks fenders were only about thirty something dollars each. I didn't have much money, they looked ok and it was still a model A. I replaced the fiberglass fenders in the ninties with new steel fenders. When I got the coupe, I hauled it home in pieces with lots of parts missing. it didn't have any door glass. I had an old gun case with plexiglass in the doors. I used a hand saw and carefully cut out door glasses for the coupe .My first model A was a strip down with 50 mercury 15 inch wheels and spun aluminum disc hubcaps. I liked hot rods and it was quite a thrill for a 13 year old. It had a stack for an exhaust but it was my hot rod model A and it would chick-ah-lunk with the spark retarded. I've still got it but its got some cool aluminum wheels with big and little tires that my son in law gave me. My first model A had a 1950 De Soto generator that uncle Ray and I rigged up negative ground and it worked good. The sealed beam headlamps were bright. We didn't have a Walmart way back then but aunt Grace made up a seat cover out of some used vinyl that she had and we installed it. I painted my first two model A's with a brush and Fix All enamel from the local hardware store. I wasn't a bodyman-painter then but with a good nylon bristle brush they looked good to me at the time.Everybody doesn't necessarily care about a points show car but still love model A's whether they are perfect original or not . All of these things can be reversed and these sort of things has preserved a lot of model A's that otherwise would have been scrapped. Just my humble thoughts.

..... ..... .....

.....

[Milton]

Originally Posted by Fred

So you were contradicting me, Well if you READ post # 27 I think you will find the price of a CHEAP one @ $365.00 & another @ $900.00.. I can buy a gen. @ a flea market for $10.00, ($20.00) on E-bay & rebuild it for for less than the shipping cost of either one of the "DEEP POCKET ONES" that are not needed...

Fred, Now that you have clarified your statement, i.e. an alternator that looks like a stock generator, I have nothing to contradict. In fact, I wholeheartedly support what you say. I did read post #27 and the prices were so far out of the park that I barely considered them to be significant in deciding between an alternator or a generator.

[CarlG]

I have an alternator on my rig, cost me about a hundred bucks for the kit 3 years ago. Not a bit of trouble with it since then.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by Christoph

Alternators are UGLY

Prob of alternator is, that they are made for top-speed
of 16000 to 22000 rpm (today). Ratio is created to meet
top-revs of engine with top-revs of alt.
Not having the space to get this ratio into your A, you will allways
have a real high "start-rev" of the alternator and not reaching
the built-in-power ....
You will run the alt powerwise way below "design-speed"
(no prob if output is sufficient to your needs)
Low revs of alt is a good thing as bearings will last forever

My wife is UGLY too! But she functions real well!

[dave in australia]

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I always like to read discussions like this one, and what type of oil, or halogen versus incandescent bulbs, single pack paint versus two pack. There's always some strong opinions around.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by dave in australia

I always like to read discussions like this one, and what type of oil, or halogen versus incandescent bulbs, single pack paint versus two pack. There's always some strong opinions around.

Here's another mystery.
My powerhouse generator and an alternator both generate alternating current, but my powerhouse changes it to DC though the commutator and the alternator changes it to DC through the 6 diodes. So both send out DC current.

My Honda EU1000 produces alternating current and sends out alternating current, and yet it's called a "GENERATOR". Is this an oxymoron or what?

BTW, here is what Audel's has to say about the generator:

[Tom F OHIO]

Four pages so far and not one response from machine girl. They must be still thinking "What to do".

[jrelliott]

You can convert an alternator to a single wire yourself. Pick up a GM alternator and buy the single wire conversion kit from NAPA. Made the support from the outside pieces from a spring shackle, purchased the pulley from Model A suppliers. If you want the full instructions send me an email [email protected]. Purchased my alternator from Fleet Farm for about $50.00 including core charge. That was a few years back.

[Forker]

I prefer blondes

[KMeredith87]

I have an alternator on my pickup simply because I wanted to be able to run 12v accessories. Oh and it was already done by my grandfather before I got it. But I also picked up a delco remmy 10s for an old GM car, Vega maybe, and just swapped out the internal regulator for a self exciting one wire. Simple and cheap to do total cost was about $50. Don't forget though if you change to 12v there is more that will have to changed than the generator, i.e. light bulbs, negative ground, coils and things of that nature. Good luck!

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Forker

I prefer blondes

Blondes are fun, but brunnettes get the job done

[Forker]

Blondes are fun, but brunnettes get the job done

I wouldn't argue with you for a second...just showing my intelligence and desire for marital bliss (see my avatar )

[Bob-A]

But redheads are extra fun..............

[John Butts in CT]

Hello, "machine girl." You still there? Stick with a stock 6 Volt Positive Ground generator. Run your GPS and MP3 Player off their own batteries (and what a joy it is to pull up to as bank drive-through window with Scott Joplin or an FDR speech blaring from the speakers). Plenty of juice to run LED brake lights and turn signals. ZERO problems since 1967.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Bob-A

But redheads are extra fun..............

Amen Brother

[BrianM]

I'm sure "machine girl" must be amazed by all the suggestions. I'm a relative newbie myself, but am a retired electrical engineer. My take is as follows:

I like originality as much as possible. However, as I often have to drive at night (like coming home from all our club meetings), I must admit that the stock lights were a bit anemic. I changed to 50/32 cp headlights & cranked up the brushes, but soon realized that I was pushing the generator beyond it's capability. Thanks to Tom for pointing out that the long generator is only good for about 12 amps continuously. Even dropping back to 32/32 cp headlights would put me over the 12 amps, when taillights & ignition are figured in. Besides, I feel that the 3 cp taillights are rather dim, considering that the driver behind me is probably preoccupied with his/her cell phone.

Having to continually adjust the third brush, or put up with excessive battery charge & frequent bulb failures, is also an issue. Again, I salute Tom for his internal voltage regulator, but meaning no disrespect whatever, it isn't original, although it is nicely out of sight.

Re bulbs, I like the originality of plain incandescent bulbs. The light from halogens & LED taillights just doesn't appeal to me personally, nor do the very high prices!

So, my solution is to stick with 6 volts, positive ground, but use a low current alternator. As I wince when I look at modern alternators in an A, I went with a Wagner 40 amp unit, which looks a lot more like a generator with it's fan & black painted housing. Why only 40 amps? Consider that the wiring was designed for a generator of less than 20 amps...And I have NO plans for AC, GPS, phones, nor MP3's.

I use the 30 amp repro ammeter, so the stock look is retained. The usual 30 amp safety fuse works fine. I did find two VERY nice wiring harnesses from Sacramento Vintage Ford using heavier gauge wires (12 instead of 14). One goes from the terminal box to starter and generator, the other is the instrument panel harness. Together they are only 20 bucks and look totally correct.

I use 50/32 cp headlights, 10 cp taillights & parking lights, and 32 cp brakelights. I'm amazed how bright all the lights are with full voltage on them, and I don't have to worry about moving brushes or overcharging.

That's my solution; works for me.

[Rich in Tucson]

Ain't all this ultimately about the battery? Buy a microprocessor controlled, desulfating battery charger (not a trickling battery tenderizer) and use it periodically on your A (and modern cars) and it won't make any difference what is under your fan belt - your battery will last longer AS LONG as what is under your hood is not boiling your battery...

[Drive Shaft Dave]

This Is just getting crazy!

[CarlG]

Page 5 coming up shortly

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Page 5 coming up shortly

Not if I can help it!

[hardtimes]

Hey Purdy,
Thanks for sharing...that not all Model A lovers/hobbiest start out with all the resources to make a show A ! And, it is so... even today with people trying to enjoy what they have..even if it is made from what they can afford. Don't knock it and/or them. Thanks for difference, eh !!


Couldn't let Tom get 'stuck' starting a fifth page !

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

My wife is UGLY too! But she functions real well!

Rock, better UN-PLUG your computer, if your wife reads this, YOU won't be functioning very well!!Land's sakes, what might she do to you????? Could it make the NATIONAL NEWS??? Bill W.

[Bob-A]

BrianM,

Whats the skinny on a Wagner 40 amp alternator that looks a little like a
generator?

TIA, Bob-A

[AL in NY]

Looks like an alternator painted black.

Link: http://www.wagnerproducts.com/model-a-alternator.htm

[BrianM]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Hi Bob-A,

The Wagner alternator has several features that make it look MORE like a generator, not identical to it. It is a single brush Delco alternator with a more cylindrical housing, mostly due to the rear end bell. Rather than the typical open slotted bell rear housing of coventional alternators, it has been squared off to a smooth cylinder. Similarly, the stamped, open-finned cooling fan of conventional alternators has been replaced with a closed pancake fan. The output connector, rather than being a molded plug-in conventional connector, has been changed to a single output post, which fits the A harness nicely. And, yes, the whole thing has been painted black.

I use the original Ford tension bracket, rather than the usual curved alternator support.

Wagner's main business is doing custom marine alternators, but they decided to branch out a bit.

Brian

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey Purdy,
Thanks for sharing...that not all Model A lovers/hobbiest start out with all the resources to make a show A ! And, it is so... even today with people trying to enjoy what they have..even if it is made from what they can afford. Don't knock it and/or them. Thanks for difference, eh !!


Couldn't let Tom get 'stuck' starting a fifth page !

Thanks, I just couldn't resist.

[Pat Martone]

I am using this Wagner alternator and have been pleased with it's performance.

My only complaint is that when listening closely to the engine with the hood open and the car idling, I can hear some sort of whirring/whistling sound that I think is coming from the closed pancake-type cooling fan (and not from the bearings or pulley or belt). My fan belt is relatively new and and very loose.
Again, I only hear the sound when listening to the car idling while standing next to the engine.

I wonder if anyone else who uses the Wagner alternator has heard the same sounds?

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Page 5 coming up shortly

Settings! I'm still on page three. Go to User CP (black bar above) then "Edit Options." Scroll down to "Thread Display Options", find the place to select "Number of Posts to Show Per Page." I'm set on 40.

[msmaron]

Ask MikeK about this gem.....150.00 Set Point, temp fantastic!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321074098202...84.m1497.l2649

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by BrianM

I'm sure "machine girl" must be amazed by all the suggestions. I'm a relative newbie myself, but am a retired electrical engineer. My take is as follows:

I like originality as much as possible. However, as I often have to drive at night (like coming home from all our club meetings), I must admit that the stock lights were a bit anemic. I changed to 50/32 cp headlights & cranked up the brushes, but soon realized that I was pushing the generator beyond it's capability. Thanks to Tom for pointing out that the long generator is only good for about 12 amps continuously. Even dropping back to 32/32 cp headlights would put me over the 12 amps, when taillights & ignition are figured in. Besides, I feel that the 3 cp taillights are rather dim, considering that the driver behind me is probably preoccupied with his/her cell phone.

Having to continually adjust the third brush, or put up with excessive battery charge & frequent bulb failures, is also an issue. Again, I salute Tom for his internal voltage regulator, but meaning no disrespect whatever, it isn't original, although it is nicely out of sight.

Re bulbs, I like the originality of plain incandescent bulbs. The light from halogens & LED taillights just doesn't appeal to me personally, nor do the very high prices!

So, my solution is to stick with 6 volts, positive ground, but use a low current alternator. As I wince when I look at modern alternators in an A, I went with a Wagner 40 amp unit, which looks a lot more like a generator with it's fan & black painted housing. Why only 40 amps? Consider that the wiring was designed for a generator of less than 20 amps...And I have NO plans for AC, GPS, phones, nor MP3's.

I use the 30 amp repro ammeter, so the stock look is retained. The usual 30 amp safety fuse works fine. I did find two VERY nice wiring harnesses from Sacramento Vintage Ford using heavier gauge wires (12 instead of 14). One goes from the terminal box to starter and generator, the other is the instrument panel harness. Together they are only 20 bucks and look totally correct.

I use 50/32 cp headlights, 10 cp taillights & parking lights, and 32 cp brakelights. I'm amazed how bright all the lights are with full voltage on them, and I don't have to worry about moving brushes or overcharging.

That's my solution; works for me.

Hey BrianM,
Ok, I've been thinking on this question and have asked a trillion people WHY? And , since this thread has gone askew anyway...also gone to FIVE pages , because of Tom. And, since you reveal that you are an electrical engineer...WHY...did Ford make his cars positive ground No satisfactory answer has ever been given. And, WHY (if it was a good idea)didn't auto makers stay with positive ground.
Note: I'd seriously like to know..WHY

[Bob-A]

Originally Posted by BrianM

Hi Bob-A,

The Wagner alternator has several features that make it look MORE like a generator, not identical to it. It is a single brush Delco alternator with a more cylindrical housing, mostly due to the rear end bell. Rather than the typical open slotted bell rear housing of coventional alternators, it has been squared off to a smooth cylinder. Similarly, the stamped, open-finned cooling fan of conventional alternators has been replaced with a closed pancake fan. The output connector, rather than being a molded plug-in conventional connector, has been changed to a single output post, which fits the A harness nicely. And, yes, the whole thing has been painted black.

I use the original Ford tension bracket, rather than the usual curved alternator support.

Wagner's main business is doing custom marine alternators, but they decided to branch out a bit.

Brian

Brian, Thanks for the info. And AL in NY too. Bob-A

[steve s]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey BrianM,
Ok, I've been thinking on this question and have asked a trillion people WHY? And , since this thread has gone askew anyway...also gone to FIVE pages , because of Tom. And, since you reveal that you are an electrical engineer...WHY...did Ford make his cars positive ground No satisfactory answer has ever been given. And, WHY (if it was a good idea)didn't auto makers stay with positive ground.
Note: I'd seriously like to know..WHY

Here's something I wrote up on this topic a while ago for our club newslettler:

Why Negative Ground?

A recent forum discussion thread on the fordbarn.com web site motivated me to go back and look again at an article in the Skinned Knuckles magazine. The article, "Why Negative Ground?" was in the September 2009 issue, #398. The simple question about a relatively modern occurrence was asked by a reader: Why did all remaining positive-ground U.S. manufacturers switch to negative-ground in 1956? After extensive research seeking an answer, the frustrated editor concludes,

"Much as I would like to announce that we have an answer, unfortunately just the opposite is true. Not only have I not obtained facts, but I am also puzzled beyond belief that the wide variety of automotive historians and curators whom I questioned could not come with a factual answer."

One U.K. electrical engineer and museum curator who was queried on the subject replied, "You have opened a can of worms..."

The SK article includes a table showing ground usage by 35 car models since 1932. Twenty five of those used positive ground for at least part of their existence. The various models that became part of GM, except for Cadillac, always used negative ground, as did Duesenberg, Essex, Stutz, and Reo. Cadillac switched from positive to negative ground after WWII. Hudson switched from negative to positive ground in 1934, and then back to negative in 1956. The "universal" switch to negative ground never occurred in the U.K. Nash Metropolitans remained positive ground, and allegedly some US car models made for export to the U.K. are still set up with positive ground.

The various creative, speculative or bogus rationales supporting one or the other grounding usage that have been offered over the years, including the corrosion thing, are briefly reviewed. The fact is that in 1956 there was a sudden consensus that it would be a good idea to standardize, but exactly how and why that consensus emerged at that moment in time remains puzzlingly mysterious.

I think it's clear that there really is no strong argument to be made one way or the other, but standardization is a good idea, and, happily, it came to pass! Too bad Ford was on the wrong side of history, but it's no big deal.

Steve Schullery

[BrianM]

Positive or negative ground? Doesn't really matter..both work fine. The problem of standardization in the 50's came about because of solid state devices, i.e., transistors & diodes. The old vibrator type tube radios didn't care about polarity, but the new transistor ones went up in smoke instantly if connected backwards! And the amount of electronics in cars has steadily increased since then, requiring a standard convention.

[hardtimes]

Hey Steve,
Thanks for adding your opinion and it was interesting read, that is, until the last statement , i.e.- about Ford being on the 'wrong' side of history. I don't see it that way at all !
My opinion, which by the way , coincidentally coincides with that of a well educated barner here....is that Fords' original decision , on grounding ford cars...was a coin flip.
As to why anyone would consider this subject..a can of worms..elephino(sound it out). Can of worms ..is usually restricted to use in serious subjects...like oil

[Tom Wesenberg]

I agree with Hardtimes, after all Studebaker couldn't have also been wrong!

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I agree with Hardtimes, after all Studebaker couldn't have also been wrong!

Ahhh, another well educated barner ! I love old stude(s) and owned golden and silver hawks, but favorite was the '53 champion with small engine and overdrive. They were also the one that people joked that you couldn't tell whether they were....'coming or going' !

[zzlegend]

Whew Hardtimes. We all no what you are doing. Keep it up and Page 6 will be here soon. LOL.

[SHEC]

Ok?

[Mitch//pa]

cant blame me this is my first post on this thread

[steve s]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey Steve,
Thanks for adding your opinion and it was interesting read, that is, until the last statement , i.e.- about Ford being on the 'wrong' side of history. I don't see it that way at all !
My opinion, which by the way , coincidentally coincides with that of a well educated barner here....is that Fords' original decision , on grounding ford cars...was a coin flip.
As to why anyone would consider this subject..a can of worms..elephino(sound it out). Can of worms ..is usually restricted to use in serious subjects...like oil

I don't know whether Ford flipped a coin or if he actually bought into one of the various bogus preference rationales that have been floated over the years. I assume that the "can of worms" comment refers to the passion and certitude with which the favorite rationales are embraced.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by steve s

I don't know whether Ford flipped a coin or if he actually bought into one of the various bogus preference rationales that have been floated over the years. I assume that the "can of worms" comment refers to the passion and certitude with which the favorite rationales are embraced.

Pos. or Neg. ground selection may have been due to two different theories on current flow direction. Electromotive force (EMF) also known as voltage, is valence electron flow from atoms with an electron that can be transfered to an atom without a valence electron, which is said to have a neg. draw. We now know that current flow (amperage) is opposite of voltage flow. Although, whether it is a Neg. or pos. ground, it really makes no difference which direction the electrons jump from atom to atom, so long as there is a complete path for current flow. So, it may well have been a flip of a coin.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

. . . So, it may well have been a flip of a coin.

Good thing they didn't use one of those trick double-headed coins. Cars would be AC. By the way, was 'tails' positive or negative?

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

Pos. or Neg. ground selection may have been due to two different theories on current flow direction. Electromotive force (EMF) also known as voltage, is valence electron flow from atoms with an electron that can be transfered to an atom without a valence electron, which is said to have a neg. draw. We now know that current flow (amperage) is opposite of voltage flow. Although, whether it is a Neg. or pos. ground, it really makes no difference which direction the electrons jump from atom to atom, so long as there is a complete path for current flow. So, it may well have been a flip of a coin.

Well, Hornbuckle, you really did it! Dog here, you got us so messed up that we'll have to take Xanax to get some sleep tonite! Buster T.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by zzlegend

Whew Hardtimes. We all no what you are doing. Keep it up and Page 6 will be here soon. LOL.

Hey ZZ,
How's that rat rod coming along lol.
Now wait a minute. Our resident electrical masters holders (who seemed to think that they got off easy) and us regular guys seem to have a consensus...on the 'coin flip'.
HOWEVER none answered the second part of the question...HOW COME?
How come Ford and all other auto makers... went from a good thing (positive ground) to negative ground

[zzlegend]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey ZZ,
How's that rat rod coming along lol.
Now wait a minute. Our resident electrical masters holders (who seemed to think that they got off easy) and us regular guys seem to have a consensus...on the 'coin flip'.
HOWEVER none answered the second part of the question...HOW COME?
How come Ford and all other auto makers... went from a good thing (positive ground) to negative ground

Hey Hardimes. Still plugging away every day on my Roadster. Is the end getting near? I hope so. As for which side of the battery gets grounded? I have heard everything from, the killy winkles have to travel north from the nuclear radon, to the which way the copper cable was wrapped when it was made and had to be insulated with just the right amount of quagulites. I think the real answer to the positive negative thing might have died with Henry.
I will drop over soon for a visit.

[steve s]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey ZZ,
How's that rat rod coming along lol.
Now wait a minute. Our resident electrical masters holders (who seemed to think that they got off easy) and us regular guys seem to have a consensus...on the 'coin flip'.
HOWEVER none answered the second part of the question...HOW COME?
How come Ford and all other auto makers... went from a good thing (positive ground) to negative ground

Not sure what you mean by the regular guys' consensus.

I thought I addressed part of the how-come question: a change was made because of the desire for an industry wide standardization, at least in the U.S.. Apparently, no one knows why negative ground was chosen over positive ground, but there's no reason to believe that positive ground was the "good thing", and it's a fact that not "all other auto makers" went from pos to neg ground. Many had always used negative ground, including some quite respectable brands (e.g., Dusenberg), and several switched back and forth. It just doesn't matter!

[steve s]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

Pos. or Neg. ground selection may have been due to two different theories on current flow direction. Electromotive force (EMF) also known as voltage, is valence electron flow from atoms with an electron that can be transfered to an atom without a valence electron, which is said to have a neg. draw. We now know that current flow (amperage) is opposite of voltage flow. Although, whether it is a Neg. or pos. ground, it really makes no difference which direction the electrons jump from atom to atom, so long as there is a complete path for current flow. So, it may well have been a flip of a coin.

Rock,

We agree on our conclusion, but part of the explanation is a bit off. EMF, or voltage, is a measure of potential energy difference between two places, whether or not any current is flowing.

Actually, we have Ben Franklin to thank for assigning the electron to be negative, thus creating the confusion that in metallic conduction the particle movement is in the opposite direction to the conventionally defined current flow. The positive direction of current flow is defined as the direction in which positive charge is moving, or would move if it could.

Steve

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by steve s

Rock,

We agree on our conclusion, but part of the explanation is a bit off. EMF, or voltage, is a measure of potential energy difference between two places, whether or not any current is flowing.

Actually, we have Ben Franklin to thank for assigning the electron to be negative, thus creating the confusion that in metallic conduction the particle movement is in the opposite direction to the conventionally defined current flow. The positive direction of current flow is defined as the direction in which positive charge is moving, or would move if it could.

Steve

I am in the same camp as the "flip of a coin" group.

Steve, you're totally correct about EMF being potential and not directional flow. I used the "flow" term as a way of deliniating the opposite of current, because some are confused about voltage and amps.

[Benson]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

I have the best of both worlds with my new Russ Evans 50 amp, 6 volt, positive ground alternator built in a Model A generator housing. And it will pass fine point judging!!

Al,

Do you have to run engine up to 1000RPM to excite this alternator OR does it excite at a lower speed?


THanks

[AL in NY]

benson, I just installed the alternator on Wednesday and haven't driven my truck yet, probably this weekend, weather permitting. I did start it up and the ammeter is at "0" idling at 700 RPM's. I'm sure I had the RPM's above 1000 at startup, so right now I can't say if I need the excite the alternator to get it to charge. The way I start my Model A is to ALWAYS put the throttle lever down a few notches before I push the starter button, even when the engine is warmed up. So the alternator will always see 1000+ RPM's initially.

[Bob-A]

Originally Posted by Bob-A

Duffy1 & Keith True,

The alternator is a one wire and after a few minutes of warming up and oil pumping I race the engine to get the aternator "excited"..... Next time I go for a drive I'll not excite the alternator on purpose and wait and see
when it does. Thanks guys!

Bob-A

Well, I went for a short "putt" the other day and did not purposely ramp up the RPM on start-up. In order to excite the alternator on the '29. Once warmed up and going through the gears (2nd) the 'ol AMP meter needle jumped
to charge in the buggy.

Bob-A

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Gettin' up in the A.M, I have to "flail" my arms to "excite" my brain?? alternator, to get my brain?? dooley floppers goin' so's I can "race" to the INHOUSE! Why do we have to have mornings?????? Bill W.