Getting to Know an Old Jalopy Roadster and Making It Work

[Tom Wesenberg]

It even looks like an original (uncut) engine number pad.

[Tinker]

Hey moving forward. Have to do what ya have to do. Keep it going.

[hotrod937]

Originally Posted by Brendan

Kool, can you start a build thread?

Isn't that what this is? Or you mean for the engine..

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Cool. Whose gonna do the babbitt for you??

So guy named Rod in Tifftin Ohio. He's gonna let me hang out and sweep up too!

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

It even looks like an original (uncut) engine number pad.

Yes. The original A numbers are clear as day

Originally Posted by Tinker

Hey moving forward. Have to do what ya have to do. Keep it going.

Got a couple weeks 'til my babbitt man is going to be ready for me. Still gonna try to do the bronze thing..

[hotrod937]

Took a chisel and carefully got the babbit out of the way. Filed it down flush. Put this guy in. Still got about 20 thou thrust. Gonna get some bronze filler rod and lay some beads on the thrust part of the bushing then mill it down to where I have 6 or 7 thou thrust. Dig it!

[hotrod937]

So the story about the other motor is a guy in the A club died and had like a million pounds of A parts that another old guy I know bought and now has. I went to buy that B motor and it had a weld repair which scared me away. I was looking around and saw two really clean blocks sitting. One had caps and one didn't. I bought the one with the caps and noticed it had a nice cross hatch hone job and had the deck milled. The babbit doesn't look cracked but is worn. I'm going to put my loose motor back in the car and have the other motor poured and set up. The crank is gonna get weld on counterweights and it's gonna be fresh and ready. Dig

[hotrod937]

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Originally Posted by dumb person

Babbitt is very soft, like solder, i can scrape it with my pocket knife, just scrape off enough to use for tinning the bronze thing i guess (like i said i have never done this bronze thing before). Ever see the big copper soldering iron that was used with a kerosene torch? i used that but had to take it to a place with an oxy' torch to heat it, all the kero' torches died of old age. Took about 5 minutes for the copper to go cold which was plenty of time to melt some old rod cap onto the thrust face. i then filed it to fit.

As for the cracks in the main i have seen some old posts on the internet where old guys glued the broken babbitt back on the caps when it fell out while doing maintenance to get them through until "next winter" so you might be able to live with those cracks as they are, meddling with them might make things worse.

Good luck!

I've the instert installed and still need some more adjustment. What is this tinning you speak of. I've got another block that I'm going to have poured so I can rob tons of babbitt off that. Do I heat the bronze to the melting temp of the babbitt then touch the babbitt to it? Does it stick well to it. Do I need to prep it with some sanding or flux? Could you explain this a bit? I've also got a TIG welder. Could I just lay some bronze beads on the thrust insert? Just not sure what to do here. Thanks

I've also got a Dana 30 carrier shim that fits perfectly in there and would dial in my thrust. This carrier shim is steel and would ride on the thrust of the crank. I would cut it in half and bend some tabs to ride under the cap as the shim is the same 10 thou as my main cap shims. I'd cut the main cap shims to accept the Dana 30 axle carrier shim. Would the steel shim ridding against the crank mar or damage the crank thrust area? The shim takes to a file but so does the crank.. The crank rings like a fordged unit when I tap it. Not sure though..

[dumb person]

If you are confident you can build up the face with bronze & machine it down a little, try it!

[hotrod937]

Well I know I can machine it down with my 1947 Jhead Bridgeport. Am I confident I can weld it? No. I know nothing about welding Bronze cept what I saw in the 3 min video I watched on weldingtipsandtricks. I did just get an HTP invertig 221 though. Can you tell me about this tinning process?

[dumb person]

Originally Posted by hotrod937

Can you tell me about this tinning process?

Just like soldering with flux but using babbitt. Lead solder will not take much pounding before it cracks. i guess you can bridgeport it after that. i suck at soldering so guess you would have more experience at it.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by hotrod937

Well I know I can machine it down with my 1947 Jhead Bridgeport. Am I confident I can weld it? No. I know nothing about welding Bronze cept what I saw in the 3 min video I watched on weldingtipsandtricks. I did just get an HTP invertig 221 though. Can you tell me about this tinning process?

If you do that you will move your crank .040 back from where it should be. Why not build the back of the cap up .040. I would machine the cap for the have round bronze inserts. If you are a good machinist you can do that in a Brideport.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by hotrod937

Took a chisel and carefully got the babbit out of the way. Filed it down flush. Put this guy in. Still got about 20 thou thrust. Gonna get some bronze filler rod and lay some beads on the thrust part of the bushing then mill it down to where I have 6 or 7 thou thrust. Dig it!

Looks good, do not forget to use sealer on that insert, when you put it in for good. If not it will leak between the insert and block.

[hotrod937]

Originally Posted by George Miller

If you do that you will move your crank .040 back from where it should be. Why not build the back of the cap up .040. I would machine the cap for the have round bronze inserts. If you are a good machinist you can do that in a Brideport.

I searched for these inserts you speak of and couldn't find anything except this thread. Can you link me for tell me more about what they are?

[Jazzjr]

Originally Posted by hotrod937

I searched for these inserts you speak of and couldn't find anything except this thread. Can you link me for tell me more about what they are?

Is this what you are looking For http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/1421




Rear Main Thrust

• This bronze thrust washer replaces the original A-6335 rear main seal that went up in the block. If the babbit on your old rear main bearing has cracked, this will now act as your thrust. Also used for inserted engines! U.S.A.
  Part NumberSpecificsPrice A-63341928-31 $43.00 / ea.

Or these http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/5356



These half circle shaped brass thrust washers are used when converting a babbitt style motor to modern inserts. You will need three of these per motor. U.S.A.
Part NumberSpecificsPrice B-63321932-34 $12.50 / ea.

[hotrod937]

The top one is what I have installed that I want to weld some bronze rod to and machine down to get in the 10 thou neighborhood down from 50 plus. This is only to get me through a couple months til my other motor is ready.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by hotrod937

I searched for these inserts you speak of and couldn't find anything except this thread. Can you link me for tell me more about what they are?

Try Snyder's new cat.
A-6332 for A engine 13.50 each you would need two
B-6332 for the B engine 12.50 each you would need two pg A-119

Bratton's new new cat pg 41
Thrust washers for insert engines.
I only see the inserts for the A 8946 13.50 each.

You would put two in the block and one in the cap if you were putting in inserts. But I have fixed some leaking engine by doing what you are doing. You have to be careful to get them right in the cap to match the one in the block. I would not go as deep as the instruction say on the clutch side. take it out put it on the block. check how much clearance between crank thrust and block. Then finish machine cap. Also check the crank to see what the rear main length is. most have worn .010-.020. Now machine the rear thrust in. Stop and check by miking across the cap with the inserts in before it is to late. I hope this is clear because writing is not my strong suite.
George

[hotrod937]

I don't have inserts. I'm gonna pour new babbitt in my spare motor..

[hotrod937]

Couple things. I'm putting the motor back together.

1) With the bronze bushing in I've still got .020 thrust. I'm probably gonna lay some TIG bronze rod beads down and machine it down to where I have about 6 or 7 thou end play.

2) My Cam gear appears to be laminated but doesn't have a dot on it to tell me how to line it up. There also appears to be a slinger coving the face of my crank gear. There is a notch ground out of the slinger however I'm assuming it's where to line it up, am I assuming right? What do I do here? I don't have a degree wheel. I do have a new laminated cam gear with the dot. Could I install it and line it up with the notch in the slinger infront of the crank gear? Are the dowl holes in the cam gears offset so you can only install it one way? What if I'm a tooth off? How do I make sure to have ever thing in time? Also I have another cam out of another motor that appears to have a bit more lift. It has the laminated cam gear also with the timing dot. I don't have the head off and don't want to take it off. Can I swap cams with the head on. I do have a valve spring compressor that might work with a towel or something on the head and just hold the lifter up. Also is the spring pressure enough to marry the lifters to the cam as in normal flat tappet V8's or am I good to swap? How do I get this thing in time?

3) How do I make sure the new oil pump dist gear is also in time?

[Bob C]

Here is a picture Tom W posted showing the timing marks. The link will show the
thread about lining them up. http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ght=crank+gear

Bob

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by hotrod937

Couple things. I'm putting the motor back together.

1) With the bronze bushing in I've still got .020 thrust. I'm probably gonna lay some TIG bronze rod beads down and machine it down to where I have about 6 or 7 thou end play.

2) My Cam gear appears to be laminated but doesn't have a dot on it to tell me how to line it up. There also appears to be a slinger coving the face of my crank gear. There is a notch ground out of the slinger however I'm assuming it's where to line it up, am I assuming right? What do I do here? I don't have a degree wheel. I do have a new laminated cam gear with the dot. Could I install it and line it up with the notch in the slinger infront of the crank gear? Are the dowl holes in the cam gears offset so you can only install it one way? What if I'm a tooth off? How do I make sure to have ever thing in time? Also I have another cam out of another motor that appears to have a bit more lift. It has the laminated cam gear also with the timing dot. I don't have the head off and don't want to take it off. Can I swap cams with the head on. I do have a valve spring compressor that might work with a towel or something on the head and just hold the lifter up. Also is the spring pressure enough to marry the lifters to the cam as in normal flat tappet V8's or am I good to swap? How do I get this thing in time?

3) How do I make sure the new oil pump dist gear is also in time?

The cam gear lines up by aligning the dimple that the timing pin goes into with a dot on the crank gear just off the key.

The oil pump drive can go anywhere. That timing is resolved when you time the distributor.

[37 ford man]

I have a stock model a frame came out of a restored car if your interested painted gloss black $400