starting engine without coolant

[mass A man]

I think Paul from Maine nailed it. The condensation builds up fast, lots of it, Would have to get engine hot(overall), to evaporate it out, too long a run for a non-coolant scenario, but I've seen it done more times than I can count. Most water vapor goes out the exhaust pipe, have you ever watched a car pull away, leaving a stream of water on the pavement out it's tailpipe? Running a Model A engine without water, I kinda worry about the thin areas around the valve seats, especially the exhaust valves where it will get extremely hot in a very short time and no coolant to carry that heat away. Maybe I worry too much.

[Mitch//pa]

It seems to have sidetracked from the original posters question, if he would hurt anything by running his motor for a FEW seconds thats what needs to be answered as i did in post #3..

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Pete

Dragsters do not and never have run dry!!!

Ummmm, actually Pete yes they kinda did. In the mid 70's, I wrenched on AL Moore's Delta Digger Top Alcohol dragster, ...and we ran a BB Chevrolet and later switched to a KB motor. The BBC block(s) was filled with ceramic (to strengthen the block) and the heads were dry. No water/coolant whatsoever. Many others ran the same combination as us and it wasn't a problem. Even Fuel cars before that time ran dry. Many Mod tractor puller motors today are dry, billet blocks & heads. Many low(er) budget teams will use an iron block with billet heads. It is all about moderation.


(BTW, like Mitch pointed out, the original poster stated this would be for a few seconds. )

.

[Pete]

[QUOTE=BRENT in 10-uh-C;788088]Ummmm, actually Pete yes they kinda did. In the mid 70's, I wrenched on AL Moore's Delta Digger Top Alcohol dragster, ...and we ran a BB Chevrolet and later switched to a KB motor. The BBC block(s) was filled with ceramic (to strengthen the block) and the heads were dry. No water/coolant whatsoever. Many others ran the same combination as us and it wasn't a problem. Even Fuel cars before that time ran dry. Many Mod tractor puller motors today are dry, billet blocks & heads. Many low(er) budget teams will use an iron block with billet heads. It is all about moderation.

Actually the block is dry but the heads are wet.

[ford3]

ever see any water come out of a broken fuel engine, ever see any water on the track

[Pete]

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Originally Posted by ford3

oh really? where would you put the water? there is no radiator, water pump, fan, hoses and no water passages in a top fuel dragster, they dont need them, alcohol and nitro methane run so cool they have to let the engines warm up to get full power, what kind of dragester do you run?

Get real..Do some research.

Oh, by the way, I was one of the first to run nitroethane, nitromethane,
hydrazine, picric acid and a couple of things you never heard of.

Along the way, you might look up spelling of the words you use.

[1937pickup]

Pete, I beg to differ-I have seen engines that have the water jackets filled and I have never seen a radiator on a dragster.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by 1937pickup

Pete, I beg to differ-I have seen engines that have the water jackets filled and I have never seen a radiator on a dragster.

Read my lips!
THE BLOCKS ARE FILLED SOLID. THE HEADS RUN WATER IN THEM.
NO RADIATORS. NO WATER PUMPS. NO TEMP GAUGES.
IF YOU HAVEN'T WORKED ON THEM AND DON'T KNOW FIRST HAND, DON'T GIVE OUT BAD INFO.

Hey, beer time. I'm buying.

[mass A man]

It's really a moot point. How can you test out a carb by running the car for a few seconds anyway???? I say hook up the galled darn radiator and test away.

[James Rogers]

I do it all the time and have never had a problem.

[dave in australia]

Originally Posted by 1937pickup

Pete, I beg to differ-I have seen engines that have the water jackets filled and I have never seen a radiator on a dragster.

I know of a couple of dragsters here in Australia that run a full cooling system, including radiator. They are in Group 3 Dial your own handicap, so if they are good enough, they need to get from the finish to the start line pretty quick. They tend to drive the cars instead of shutting them down and getting towed, and line up again for the finals. They run a soft tune so they are not greatly affected by changing atmospheric conditions, as well as being driveable at low engine RPM's.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by mass A man

It's really a moot point. How can you test out a carb by running the car for a few seconds anyway???? I say hook up the galled darn radiator and test away.

And it could be said that your advice would be moot too since how do you fully test a carburetor without out being able to accelerate under different loads and do a braking test to see if the fuel sloshes during hard braking??

[Russ/40]

Originally Posted by Pete

Read my lips!
THE BLOCKS ARE FILLED SOLID. THE HEADS RUN WATER IN THEM.
NO RADIATORS. NO WATER PUMPS. NO TEMP GAUGES.
IF YOU HAVEN'T WORKED ON THEM AND DON'T KNOW FIRST HAND, DON'T GIVE OUT BAD INFO.

Hey, beer time. I'm buying.

Since the thread is hopelessly off course I won't hesitate to ask.
Pete, could you elaborate how water is handled in the heads only? I imagine the system can't be sealed due to steam creation. How is water pressure handled?

[mass A man]

My point exactly Brent!

[1937pickup]

Think about how few revs these engines see staging and running-lets say the engine idles at 850 rpm and max power is at 8k rpms. To stage the car with a burn out to heat the tires takes 3 minutes-the car has turn over less than 4000 times. With max power at 8k rpms it is turning over 134 times per second. Lets say it runs in the seven second area it only turns over another 938 times. From start of staging to end of run it has turned over less than 5000 times-not very many revs. They do not need to cool these engines and add the weight of water, radiator and pumps to the car.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by 1937pickup

Think about how few revs these engines see staging and running-lets say the engine idles at 850 rpm and max power is at 8k rpms. To stage the car with a burn out to heat the tires takes 3 minutes-the car has turn over less than 4000 times. With max power at 8k rpms it is turning over 134 times per second. Lets say it runs in the seven second area it only turns over another 938 times. From start of staging to end of run it has turned over less than 5000 times-not very many revs. They do not need to cool these engines and add the weight of water, radiator and pumps to the car.

Actually, times have progressed where the alcohol car (diggers and floppers) drivers are religiously twisting them over 10,000 RPMs and some are even spinning over 11k!! Also, low idle speed is around 2,500 and staging is done at between 5,000 - 6,000 RPMs. 30 years ago when we were running TAD, we would stage/leave at 4,000 and twist to 8,500. Many times we might only take the heads off a couple times a weekend.

[ford3]

top fuel dragsters have blocks and heads made out of billet aluminum,there is no way to intorduce water in any part of the engine,,

[Pete]

Originally Posted by ford3

top fuel dragsters have blocks and heads made out of billet aluminum,there is no way to intorduce water in any part of the engine,,

That is correct for the modern ones.

[ford3]

Pete, your right, but most of the nastalgia dragsters had the blocks had there water passages filled with aluminum, to help support cylinder bores because of the over bores and added combustion pressures and to act as a heat sink, any way we are way off topic on the post about starting a model a with out water, so its time to close this post