Very fine rust in gas tank-what to do?

[steve s]

Now is a good time to be grateful that you don't have a town sedan.

Steve

[columbiA]

When I cleaned my gas tank,I found that I could get a lot more rust from the tank if I removed the shut-off valve as the gas will run out faster thru the larger hole.You can use a stick to push a pile of rust over to the drain to get more out.

[Jazzjr]

Fred, Build what you see in my Photo, out of 1/4 Pipe fittings. It works for Me, with just a Glass Sediment Bowl on the firewall. I have a fairly clean tank, but still get a few rust particles when I drain the Sump Nipple. Would save you a lot of time Taking apart your cleaning system as your trying to do now.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I know of 2 cars with really crummy tanks, but with the addition of the stainless standpipe filter in the top of the shut off valve, they never have any problems. Bill W.

[Steve Plucker]

Fred,

Not sure just how you are going to solve the problem with your rusted tank but maybe send it to Brent Terry...he does some great work on taking those tanks apart, cleaning them up, and reassembling them.

Just a thought.

Pluck

[Fred K-OR]

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Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

Fred,

Not sure just how you are going to solve the problem with your rusted tank but maybe send it to Brent Terry...he does some great work on taking those tanks apart, cleaning them up, and reassembling them.

Just a thought.

Pluck

Thanks Pluck for the info on Brent. I almost have the tank out of the rig. I think I will take it to a local radiator shop and have it "boiled out" or whatever they call it. Then have them pressure test it. Then after getting it back I think I will then clean it again and coat the inside. I did this with my huckster and so far (fingers crossed) it has worked out great.

[PetesPonies]

I use phosphoric acid in similar applications. You would have to remove the tank though. That way you can allow it to work in all areas of the tank and empty and flush easily. I have used it on gas tanks before, so I'm confident. I use it on sheet metal as well. Again, if you are interested in removing the tank, this would be the option I would use.

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by PetesPonies

I use phosphoric acid in similar applications. You would have to remove the tank though. That way you can allow it to work in all areas of the tank and empty and flush easily. I have used it on gas tanks before, so I'm confident. I use it on sheet metal as well. Again, if you are interested in removing the tank, this would be the option I would use.

Have a question about muriatic acid. Will it do the same as phosphoric acid. I just happen to have some on hand that I used to clean parts and wondered if it would also work for this.

[Fred K-OR]

Well I got the tank out of the car. Wow what a job. Most of the old bolts twisted off. I would guess they were the original.

I washed the tank out with a little gas and dumped it out the fill hole. Got a lot of rust flakes out. Called a few local radiator shops. One will do a job similar to what Pluck mentioned above. So will have to choose which way to go now.

[1931 flamingo]

I think I would have tried flushing it with water a few times and see if that helped before removing it. JMO Paul in CT

[Napa Skip]

Originally Posted by Fred K-OR

Have a question about muriatic acid. Will it do the same as phosphoric acid. I just happen to have some on hand that I used to clean parts and wondered if it would also work for this.

Muriatic acid (HCl or hydrochloric acid) can be used to clean steel. In fact, one of its principal industrial applications is the pickling (rust and iron oxide scale removal) of steel during production. Also, as anyone with a swimming pool probably knows, muriatic acid is inexpensive and readily available, being one of the two primary chemicals used in swimming pool water chemistry maintenance (liquid or dry chlorine being the other).

Couple this with the tendency of the average Model A owner to do it themselves, and you can see where this leads to. However, were it me, I would avail myself of the radiator repair shop approach. For one thing, I believe the HCl-do-it-yourself approach would involve trying to slosh around whatever quantity of acid you use in a gas tank that – according to How To Restore Your Model A Ford, Volume 5 pages 10—13 – already weighs about 43 lbs. For another thing, there are three holes that ought to be sealed in order to safely clean the tank with acid; the gas outlet is easy to seal but the gas gage and filler neck represent an entirely different – albeit not insurmountable – challenge. Then there is the question of what to do with the residual HCl (although as Dr. Renchler, site chemist at a reactor facility I worked at - at the Idaho Nuclear Engineering Laboratory - used to point out, if your strawberries aren’t doing too well, add a little acid to the soil, except that I seem to recall his acid of choice was nitric acid). Bottom line: seems the cost-benefit of doing it yourself – and the potential downside of an “embarrassing moment” - argues towards letting the professionals do it in this case.

As an aside, if you have a dull file, one quick-and-dirty method of restoring some cutting edge to the teeth is to soak the file in muriatic acid for a couple of hours. Rinse well, spray with oil so it doesn’t immediately rust, and add the acid to your strawberries.

And for those of you with swimming pools, I share your pain. Having grown up in the south (San Fernando Valley) I always thought a swimming pool was a staple of life. Well, it is a staple of life (as in “it’s with you every day of your life”) although the severe weather in Napa limits its use. Why just last winter it got so cold here that we had to turn on the pool heater…

[Fred K-OR]

Thanks Skip for the heads up on muriatic acid. After thinking about it, much like you described, I to think I will use another method to clean this thing. I ordered some Bill Hirsch Cleaner which is bio-degradable and I have used before on another tank in my huckster.

I did called around to a number of radiator cleaners here in this area and most of them did not want to do a "boiling out" of a gas tank. There was one chain company that would do it for about $200 and put a sealer in it also for about $350.

[PetesPonies]

Phosphoric acid is much easier to use. It is commonly used in rust removal in bodyshops. It isn't as dangerous to work with. It also leaves a coating behind, which is a good thing. There are so many ways to use it though, depending on what you want to do. It is available at Home Depot as a concrete cleaner. Or, pay a lot more and get it through DuPont as a metal prep . . be smart and save money. I leave it in gas tanks for a few days, moving the tank around. Then pour it out and flush well. Most times, that is all that is needed and no loose material ( rust ) will be left in the tank. I did a Harley tank most recently and then coated the inside with Master Series, which is a moisture cured urethane that is impervious to fuels. Not that it needs to be done this way all the time. I wipe down bare sheet metal with phosphoric acid prior to coating with epoxy primer. I keep some full strength in a jar and put nuts and bolts in it for a few days. They come out blackened, ready for paint or left alone to match some factory finishes.

[quintin durwood]

Drain the tank and use a mechanic's magnet with flexible handle to pick up the rust !! Works like magic!! No need to remove tank!!

[wildwilly]

Im glad to find this post. I too have been fighting the same rust issues. I am about to the point of pulling my tank to have it cleaned and relined. I just want it to end with the filter plugs and road side clean outs. as one member has mentioned a stove pipe in bottom of tank, no luck with this fine power rust. Im going to hate to do what needs to be done and pull the tank. I am thinking once an done.

[freak]

Phosphoric acid is best. I've done both muriatic and phosphoric and the phosphoric works much better. Muriatic will cause more rust.

Here's a good source...

http://www.finishing.com/336/11.shtml

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Jerry Parr WI

Two kinds of rust show up in the gas tanks. The chunks of rust that form in the bottom from water setting and the fine talcum powder rust that forms on the inside top of the tank from condensation. Sounds like you have the second type. The fine rust gets washed off the tank by the sloshing gas when the car is driven. The best way to get rid of it is drive until its gone. Severe cases will plug the shutoff valve but it quickly drives away. Small amounts don't seem to plug anything except filters and just run thru the carb. Once it's washed away driving the car on a regular basis keeps it from being a problem.

I was thinking the same thing, fine enough to go through the filter should be fine enough to go through the jets.

I would fill the tank slosh is around real good and let it sit a day. I would then drain a little (gallon or so) and see what you get. Filter add back to tank.

Stabil 360 is supposed to help with tank corrosion even above the fuel line as well as keeping fuel fresh. That is what they advertise anyway.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by freak

Phosphoric acid is best. I've done both muriatic and phosphoric and the phosphoric works much better. Muriatic will cause more rust.

Yep, I did not really want to jump in and say anything about bad information but Muratic is a real No-No unless someone wants the tank metal to totally dissolve simply because of the neutralization process.

I have asked this time and time again (....and here we go again! ) but when you guys put in the acid to 'eat the rust', that is great with the exception that the de-rusted metal inside the tank is bare now. What happens to bare metal?

( I can also tell you that sloshing a tank only seals a portion of the tank's metal. The rest is left exposed to re-rust again. )

[Rex_A_Lott]

Well, since the thread was started 3 years ago, why dont we just let Fred tell us what he did to fix the problem?

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by Fred K-OR

Thanks Skip for the heads up on muriatic acid. After thinking about it, much like you described, I to think I will use another method to clean this thing. I ordered some Bill Hirsch Cleaner which is bio-degradable and I have used before on another tank in my huckster.

I did called around to a number of radiator cleaners here in this area and most of them did not want to do a "boiling out" of a gas tank. There was one chain company that would do it for about $200 and put a sealer in it also for about $350.

I did use the Bill Hirsch Cleaner and sealer and so far after 3 years or so, I find no rust in my filters on my coupe.