Nu-Rex wrench ???

[wcmill]

Hey guys, was happy to receive my Nu-Rex timing wrench the other day…..not at all happy with it.
I’ve only owned my A for about a month, and am going through it from front to back as it had been sitting for 5 years.
I have read everything about these wrenches on this site. Still I can’t get a definitive answer as to why this doesn’t work.
This is what I sent Nu-Rex……..waiting for their reply:

Hello, I just purchased your timing wrench and am having a fairly big issue.
I have a 31 model A, it has the Nu -Rex upper plate with the modern Ford points.
When I set the wrench as instructed, I am no where near where the points are just starting to open. In fact the points are already fully open and riding right in the middle of the highest point on the cam.
If I set the timing the old way, with a test light etc, the car runs as it should but when I check it with the wrench it is at least 2 inches PAST the 4th point on the distributor head.
This baffles me, it’s just a simple notch in a cam with a fixed point matching to the wrench.
Some say it doesn’t work correctly using the modern points of non stock upper plate.
I find this hard to believe as the upper plate and points are also Nu-Rex!
Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

[ABento]

I had the same luck with the one i bought also.

[Patrick L.]

And here I thought the wrench was only to turn the cam to where it needed to be. What do I know.

[P.S.]

Ran into that issue once- The modern points were mounted to the upper plate in the wrong position. Keep in mind, if you did adjust the points so the gap is just about to open, then the rotor tab won't be in the correct position to send the spark to the corresponding button in the cap thruout the spark adjustment travel.

The fix is to either replace the upper plate with a correct one, or rmount the modern points to the plate but in the correct position.

[wcmill]

That’s a good point P.S…….I’ve layed awake at night wondering about that too. As I understand it the #1 distributor contact point should be right at the trailing edge of the rotor cap point (hope that makes sense). As it sits right now with the engine timed with the light method, the rotor is at the very start of its width.
Funny thing is the car starts and runs, (actually sounds great) although I haven’t driven it yet…..too much snow ��.
So how do you go about re positioning the points on the plate? Is there a thread or sticky on this? Perhaps a template somewhere?

[Rob Doe]

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I'm thinking that I watched a couple videos, there is a Paul Shinn video that shows how to time the ignition to the engine using the wrench. There is a Nu Rex video on the Nu Rex web site. A phone call to Nu Rex would probably work also.

I don't use the wrench, but I have one. I run the NuRex upper plate and their modern points and condenser. We drove the coupe a lot and the NuRex modern setup made the car very reliable as opposed to the stock setup. Your results may vary. LOL

[alexiskai]

Something I established with repeated testing about a year ago is that the Nu-Rex wrench and the Nu-Rex upper plate w/modern points don't actually go together well. If you use the wrench with the stock upper plate w/stock points, the timing accuracy is excellent – barely different from what you'd get using a light or ohmmeter. With the Nu-Rex upper plate w/modern points, the rotor position is visibly altered and does not match what you get when timing the Nu-Rex plate with a light/ohmmeter.

Attached pictures show results from timing the Nu-Rex plate with both the wrench and an ohmmeter. I agree with Paul that this demonstrates that the plate and points are assembled incorrectly – the points don't open until the rotor is almost past the terminal. His suggestion "to either replace the upper plate with a correct one, or mount the modern points to the plate but in the correct position" is good advice.

[mcgarrett]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I haven't heard of this problem before, but I don't use the modern points setup. No problems using the Nu-Rex tool with original upper plate and points - seems to work every time. I seem to have better success setting points more precisely with the stock points and they seem to last longer too.

[rotorwrench]

I have one of the modified plates for modern points but I've never used it. I'm still using points from the mid 80s on a stock plate which adjust properly and work well. The blow proof capacitor works about as good as any condenser I've ever used. The car has always run well till a cap goes bad but I still carry a spare to remedy that. I don't like walking if I don't have to. It can easily be changed with the proper screw driver and some care in handling.

The modern condensers are spotty in quality of manufacture and the modern points are nothing to write home about either.

[mcgarrett]

I agree with Rotorwrench. I also eliminated the inherent weakness of the stock points set up by replacing the old wire from the lower plate to the upper with the one sold by some of the suppliers which has more flexibility and is also about an inch longer. Problem solved.

[wcmill]

Originally Posted by Rob Doe

I'm thinking that I watched a couple videos, there is a Paul Shinn video that shows how to time the ignition to the engine using the wrench. There is a Nu Rex video on the Nu Rex web site. A phone call to Nu Rex would probably work also.

I don't use the wrench, but I have one. I run the NuRex upper plate and their modern points and condenser. We drove the coupe a lot and the NuRex modern setup made the car very reliable as opposed to the stock setup. Your results may vary. LOL

There isn’t a video on YouTube that I haven’t watched on how to time a model A.
My goal last night was to find one that I hadn’t watched ……..couldn’t ☹️
I have subscribed to Paul Shinns channel for a long time.

[wcmill]

So what position should the cap be in assuming it’s where it should be? Either using the newer upper plate or complete stock set up?
CCW rotation should the #1 point be at the leading or trailing edge of the cap……middle?

[wcmill]

Am I the only one that finds it totally ironic….if not mildly amusing that the upper plate I’m using has “Nu-Rex” stamped right on it……….. but ya……sorry…that one doesn’t work with our wrench🙄

[Big hammer]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

And here I thought the wrench was only to turn the cam to where it needed to be. What do I know.

And I’ve been using the rotor to turn the cam for 52 years, I must’ve been doing it wrong LOL

[Ramman]

I guess I'm lost at what you're expecting the wrench to do. I along with one other, thought it was for merely for turning the point cam to set point opening with a meter or light. Instead of using the rotor. What makes the wrench handy is you can then hold the cam in position while you tighten the screw. Which you can't do using the rotor.
I time mine so the points just open with #1 piston at tdc and the advance lever down 2 notches. It doesn't matter where the rotor is to the cap #1 contact, as long as it's pointing at it somewhere. The rotor doesn't fire the coil at the proper time (piston position). The points do. The advance lever doesn't advance the rotor in relation to the cap. It advances the point plate in relation to the point cam. The faster the engine speed, the earlier the points open, firing the coil. The piston to rotor position never changes, and doesn't need to.
Later on vacuum advance moves the point plate, and mechanical advance (weights) move the rotor. At least that's how I was taught and understand it. Sorry for long winded.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by wcmill

So what position should the cap be in assuming it’s where it should be? Either using the newer upper plate or complete stock set up?
CCW rotation should the #1 point be at the leading or trailing edge of the cap……middle?

This is where it's supposed to be. The issue with the Nu-Rex plate w/modern points is that the points won't actually open (thus firing the plug) until the cam has rotated a few degrees farther, meaning that your initial timing will be ATDC.

A lot of people like to set their timing this way, so if you're that sort of person, go right ahead and use the Nu-Rex plate, modern points, and Nu-Rex wrench. If you're a stickler for accuracy, though, I would suggest modifying the setup.

[wcmill]

So I just got off the phone with Bob from Nu-Rex. He phoned back 3 times and we talked for almost an hour in total. Very nice man, service like that these days is hard to find.
Anyways…..I have stumped him. He said he has never come across this particular issue since he’s owned the company.
We could talk all day long about this……my issue has nothing to do with engine mechanics or TDC. It’s very simple …..taking a tool with a defined notch in it and placing it on a rotor cam that has a receiving notch that is located exactly in the middle of the high point on the cam. When you place the handle in a certain position (#4 distributor point) with the triangle on the wrench handle, the points should NOT be fully open….mine are!
Alexiskai, mine are opening way to soon, not too late.
Bob is adamant that it’s not his plate…..especially since this is an actual Nu-Rex machined plate. He said there have been knock offs who have placed the mounting holes and the pivot point in the wrong spot. But according to him, that’s NEVER happened with his product.

So there you go gentleman……who can solve this riddle??? I’m willing to donate some of my
“Awake most of the night” time to anyone that is interested!🥺

[alexiskai]

Can you take a picture with the rotor off and post it? Similar to the pic attached here.

[wcmill]

Will do…..standby.

[wcmill]

BF6FA7D5-8063-417F-9930-C89E51D15E35.jpg

3E277658-86CF-4B33-992F-FF7A91764222.jpg

[wcmill]

When I time it the old fashioned way with a test light, this is where the wrench ends up.

[wcmill]

But this is the position of the rotor cap when timed the test light (old) way???

[alexiskai]

I think your rubbing block is contacting the cam too “early,” causing the points to open before the cam is in the correct position.

[wcmill]

That’s a very good observation…..when I put the new points in I noticed a difference in the block size from the old points……I thought perhaps it was just wear.
Give me a minute and I’ll take the points off and send pics of the 2 differences .

[wcmill]

Old points on the left…….upon closer observation it actually looks like the block is bigger on the old set……who knows maybe they’re both incorrect.

[alexiskai]

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Originally Posted by wcmill

Old points on the left…….upon closer observation it actually looks like the block is bigger on the old set……who knows maybe they’re both incorrect.

Get calipers and measure the distance from the edge of the contact (the circular piece at the end of the points) to the edge of the rubbing block. Just eyeballing it, the distance looks different between the two. That could account for the problem.

[wcmill]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

Get calipers and measure the distance from the edge of the contact (the circular piece at the end of the points) to the edge of the rubbing block. Just eyeballing it, the distance looks different between the two. That could account for the problem.

Your bang on my friend! 6.90 to 7.50 thousands difference!
I put the old points on and everything lined up perfectly. Well, perfectly enough for a 90 year old car.
You can see here in the picture the difference.

You know I bought the points from Napa, said on the box made in China…..should have raised a red flag right there. You’d think that Ford V8 points from 57-74 wouldn’t be hard to duplicate……lesson learned.

As they said in Apollo 13 “you sir, are a steely eyed missile man”😁.

Awesome forum!!

[The Master Cylinder]

You never mention, what are you setting you point gap at? I find the Nu-Rex wrench works best when the points are set at .020". Gap too wide will open sooner.

That's with original style points, I have never used 'modern' ~65 yo design points.

[wcmill]

Points are set to .018

[KR500]

Just to add more confusion for you fellas. I had used a NuRex wrench and the wrench was totally off for where it used have been. Since I own at least two of the wrenchs I did a comparison of one wrench to another. One wrench had the slot off in orientation to the other. When I used the other wrench to set the timing the engine started right up. Here are a couple of pics of the two wrenches.

[KR500]

In regard to the NuRex wrench having been formed 90 degrees off when placing possibly in the forming or bending jig, I informed Bob Gary of the issue and he immediately told me he would send out out a new wrench and to destroy the bad one. I can't say how many wrong formed wrenches could be out there or what suppliers may have gotten wrong formed wrenches. Never assume everything is correct till you can prove it to yourself.

[wcmill]

Yes, Bob from Nu-Rex also asked me if I had an “older” incorrect wrench while we were troubleshooting my problem. We determined that I had the correct one.
Holding the wrench in your left hand up to your eye level, with the instructions facing you, the tab should be at the 5 O’clock position.

[Rob Doe]

What was the part number on the box of new NAPA points?

Blue Streak FD8183V are the upper tier quality points by Standard Products. They are copper plated for better connectivity and have a rubbing block of different material (harder?), a felt wiper to help keep the cam lubricated.

[alexiskai]

Slightly off-topic but I bought a new Blue Streak coil and was disappointed to find out it’s oil filled.

[1stWoody]

I just solved this exact problem yesterday on an A I just acquired. It has modern points and when timed with the NuRex wrench it was way too advanced and when I it timed correctly the wrench was passed the #4 distributor post but would start missing when the lever was advanced on steering column because the rotor was too far away from the post in distributor cap. I found the previous owner converted an original upper plate to use the new points and put a wireless bottom plate on. The little brass peice that connects the points to the bottom plate was straight up and down so when the points were mounted with the connector lined up with the notch in upper plate it caused the points to be in the wrong location. I looked at a NuRex plate and that little connector has an offset in it to allow the points to line up correctly.
I hope this makes sense.

[Ramman]

Once again, this is why I move the point cam with the wrench, but determine the position of points just opening with a test light. Then you can hold the cams position with the wrench as you tighten the screw. Counting on where the tang is on the wrench and where the handle is on the cap to set your timing to me is iffy at best.

[wcmill]

Originally Posted by Rob Doe

What was the part number on the box of new NAPA points?

Blue Streak FD8183V are the upper tier quality points by Standard Products. They are copper plated for better connectivity and have a rubbing block of different material (harder?), a felt wiper to help keep the cam lubricated.

The first incorrect set was the part number you listed……FD8183V, this was the set where the arm was approx .070” shorter then the correct one.
The one that I got from Napa was part number CS755SB which again was the right one.
I think it’s more likely that the FD8183V that I got was was a repro “made in China” set. Said so right on the box, even though it was labelled OEM. That same part number from a more reliable source would probably be just fine.
Anyway……was a good learning lesson!

[Al Mack]

Timing Tool. I need a correct one P.S.

[wcmill]

Originally Posted by Ramman

Once again, this is why I move the point cam with the wrench, but determine the position of points just opening with a test light. Then you can hold the cams position with the wrench as you tighten the screw. Counting on where the tang is on the wrench and where the handle is on the cap to set your timing to me is iffy at best.

Seems like most of the more experienced YouTube or other social media platform guys “Paul Shinn” “Jack Baum” etc, state that the most accurate way is to time with a test light.
The wrench is great to get you going quickly on the road or for helping others out.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by wcmill

Seems like most of the more experienced YouTube or other social media platform guys “Paul Shinn” “Jack Baum” etc, state that the most accurate way is to time with a test light.
The wrench is great to get you going quickly on the road or for helping others out.

My recommendation is that, for any given distributor, you check the wrench’s result against a light/ohmmeter. If it’s the same, you can then save time by using the wrench with that particular distributor in the future, unless you change something.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

My recommendation is that, for any given distributor, you check the wrench’s result against a light/ohmmeter. If it’s the same, you can then save time by using the wrench with that particular distributor in the future, unless you change something.

What alexiskai said... Of course we all know that once the rubbing block wears, unless you readjust the point gap to compensate, the timing is going to change so where the wrench points is going to be off anyway.

[81ls1camaro]

Originally Posted by wcmill

When I time it the old fashioned way with a test light, this is where the wrench ends up.

I put modern points in my 28 and I just worked on another car that had the same. The timing wrench as you have shown does not end up where Nu-Rex intended. It actually ends up in exactly the same spot as yours, on both cars.