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04-10-2013, 09:08 AM | #1 |
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New engine does GREAT, but
New engine does a superb job
Running nice and smooth and sounds GREAT (you wont believe its in its break-in-phase...). Once i start driving, sadly, there is some noise from rear-engine/gearbox/clutch area. Especially once going off the throttle. No way to do real-testing as heavy rains around Drove it for 15 Minutes up to now. When changing engines, we took out the old engine with gearbox and did a test-run of new engine with gearbox on the bench. No issues there and great shifting -- of course - this gearbox was good (and hopefully is good) Put the new engine back in together with gearbox and put it onto Float-A motor (had to change things anyway as original rig was OLD and rubber-parts badly-worn-out). Float a motor looks good and i think height is correct. (rounded part of fly-wheel-housing is on height of upper-frame) Front-side-height and alignment for sure is perfect. (crank fits in perfect) Will take wood parts out again and will open clutch inspection plate next. Might Radius-ball be to tight or too loose?? (old oil-rotten rubber-ball; no springs; somewhat tightened....) PLEASE come back with your ideas before i start taking gearbox (and engine) out again??? Thank you Christoph |
04-10-2013, 10:15 AM | #2 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Before leaping into it, have another Model A'er or two drive it. It could be normal A noises?
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04-10-2013, 11:04 AM | #3 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Was the U-joint tight to the back of the tranny when re-installed?? Pilot bearing ck'd/replaced??
Paul in CT |
04-10-2013, 11:10 AM | #4 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Might be something SO simple. One day I had a new REALLY ALARMING! noise---was just the knob loose on my R/H windshield swing out arm!(WHEW!) Bill W.
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04-10-2013, 11:31 AM | #5 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Christoph, are you sure it is in the trany area or could it be the rear end?
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04-10-2013, 12:14 PM | #6 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
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Sounds like it's time to replace the radius ball fittings . I hope that's the problem. John Cochran |
04-10-2013, 12:26 PM | #7 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Do you have the sheet metal engine pans on the sides of the engine? Sometimes they rattle loudly.
I'd suspect some sort of vibration/interference (floor boards, brake rods, battery box, etc) before I'd assume a mechanical problem inside the clutch/gearbox. Model A engines, especially new tight ones, tend to have vibrations when decelerating. |
04-10-2013, 12:38 PM | #8 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
...a minor update
Managed to do a short test drive as no rain for some hours. Starting to drive, i thought noise might have gone. The warmer the engine (gearbox) gets, the more noise there is. Its a sound with the speed of the driveshaft (i guess) but out of gearbox area. Best to spot while just sailing along. Decided to put car on jacks/stands, turne wheels an listen with a stethoscope (next weekend) Jim Id love to let you drive it SADLY there is no other "A" arround ( most pre ww2 things are gone somehow) Normal "A"-noises with my old engine used to be VERY different (and additional i guess i dont like the Float-A motor ) Flamingo Good one. Didnt take U-joint away so ididnt have to reinstall Should have checked it anyway Pilot bearing was just one year old but its very new now ! Bill Thank you for make me think positive. For sure got to get used to new (float-A-motor) noises . Got to top you... Some time ago i lost the knob of the window- swing-arm which fell outside the car while driving. Fancy this ... Pre-war-car parked and fully-grown-owner skidding on knees through brush-wood.... Fred Im pretty sure its not the rear-end. Destroyed the pinion just one year ago, had lots of fun than and did everything new there (additional i cant stand this idea). Further ideas wellcome Will keep you updated Christoph |
04-10-2013, 12:50 PM | #9 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Disconnect the speedometer cable and see what happens. Noise travels. I'd try ANYTHING before pulling anything major. Just a suggestion.
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04-10-2013, 12:51 PM | #10 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Wow - even more comments while writing my update.
Thank you John Come over mate - you seem to be closest other A-driver arround You got to drive it . Well i guess you are right, but this seems NOT to be the prob I might have mislead here. Brian Good one here but i didnt reinstall pans as i feared they dont like this float-thing. Might be good idea to relax a while and do some more test drives....to get used to new noises RH Will investigate according Had some ideas regarding exhaust too new silentblocks there.... Will find out about Christoph |
04-10-2013, 12:58 PM | #11 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
What kind of noise, clunk, rattle, hum, schreech? Does it make noise while coasting, clutch in, and with trans in neutral? Do replace the radius ball set up with the correct springs. There should be some "give" there to absorb the shocks of driving. It could be making "clunk clunk" sounds without the springs as shock absorbers. I doubt the Float a Motor is causing any noise, so long as it is tight against the flywheel housing and frame.
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04-10-2013, 01:30 PM | #12 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
clunking tributary to speed
with gear and in neutral clutch in and clutch out... engine on and engine of no way to influence i know that would lead us more to the rear... I doubt the float-a motor causes noises too, but it changes the well known-to-me-noises of my "A" And it seems to me that its no advantage to the old-rotten-original. i guess i should be able find some radius-ball-springs in my collection called "Offerings to the god of speed" |
04-10-2013, 03:22 PM | #13 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
What about the common issue of too long a starter bolt used that goes through to the flywheel and rubs? Would be a constant RPM related noise.......
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04-10-2013, 03:30 PM | #14 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Noise changes with speed.
Clutch in, Clutch out, in gear an in Neutral, engine on, engine off makes not difference. Sort of seems that the motor and transmission are out of the picture. Got to look at what is still turning with the tranny in neutral and the engine off. Drive shaft, universals, tail shaft bearing, rear end, rear wheels. Can you "feel" it as well as hear it? Can you time it to speed, for instance does it time to once each wheel revolution?
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04-10-2013, 03:47 PM | #15 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Is the starter drive totally disengaging? Sounds okay when starting? No possibility of broken spring or loose starter spring bolt? Grasping at straws here.
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04-10-2013, 05:36 PM | #16 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Is the tab on the special thick washer, that secures the U-joint, engaged in the space between two splines? If not the U-joint may have become loose.
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04-11-2013, 12:48 AM | #17 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Thank you so much for your ideas !
I really appreciate that !! Craig and JBill Engine starts great and sounds perfect (if not driving) Starter issues should appear once engine runs. QGolden "Can you feel" Not really, but i am not to sure. Will investigate. "Does it time to..." No - its speed-related but i cant count Maybe just im not able to detect this, as i was not able to count it when my Pinion was gone a year ago. Once i had the rear axle out (back than), it was easy to count... Tom I need to check that. Cant remember what that looks alike. Will be back regarding this. Thank you again Christoph |
04-11-2013, 01:10 AM | #18 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Tom
I think you are talking about parts on attached screen-print. Your idea sounds good to me, because: We took out engine together with the tranny. We put tranny to the new engine and did a test drive on the bench (just each gear for a sec). We sadly didnt take off the U-joint It rotated free without being supported Grease flew all around (best part of the story) Special-washer (and U-joint) might have come out of its seat As i didnt loosen it, i sadly didnt check if its tight afterwards. Shame on me. Where does this washer go with its nose?? Cant remember as one year since i built in ... Will investigate Will get me a stethoscope (screwdriver) to investigate details Will tell you about Thank you Christoph |
04-11-2013, 01:32 AM | #19 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
You need to insert a socket and extension through the center of the U-joint to screw the bolt and washer tight, but first just very lightly turn the bolt in, then spin the washer so you can feel the upset tab fit into the space between the spines. Then do the final tightening of the bolt.
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04-11-2013, 02:19 AM | #20 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Thank you so much Tom
I do remember that i used a socket and extension through the center of the U-joint, but i forgot about the rest .... Will investigate and for sure will be back Got to confess that i put a new (rebuilt) generator to the new engine which does not hold your EVR up to now. Will take EVR out of the "old" generator soon. I learned lately, that im able to spot on amp-meter, once (too) loose belt starts to slip Greetings Christoph |
04-15-2013, 09:04 AM | #21 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Short update
Put car on stands and listened from under the car. Sadly noise is somewhat "off" once turning wheels by hand (to slow). No i wont run wheels by engine while being under the car For sure no wheel-bearing prob. Noise seems to be out of gearborx and/or U-joint area (slightly to be heard from both housings via Stethoscope/Screwdriver) Cant really feel the noise Even not once driving without floor-wood out and holding hand to gearbox and U-joint (while driving). Re-opened gearbox (was long time-open while changing engines) Tried some fishing in thick oil (NO FUN !!!) Didnt find things/unnormal things Didnt find abnormal movement in the gearbox-spindles/axles Will have to investigate regarding U-joint and upper bearing of driveshaft... If the special thick washer and U-joint may have become loose (as mentioned by Tom) do i have to lower the rear axle to find out about???. Well i guess i should lower rear end anyway as this is only way to inspect the driveshaft bearing too ... Will update Christoph |
04-15-2013, 12:35 PM | #22 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Seems like you have narrowed it down to the U-Joint/tailshaft area....
Can you lift it with the jacks, crib it up on some wood timbers under the Axles, and run it through the gears to listen, NOT under it, but in it?
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04-15-2013, 01:19 PM | #23 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Thank you for your help
Tried to run it while sitting in the car and still was in fear it might jump and accelerate.... Found out, that it took me just one hour (today after work) to loosen all bolts brakes, rear spring and stuff. Car is still sitting o own wheels, waiting for a Snyders package to arrive tomorrow... Will tell you about outcome. Thank you Christoph |
04-15-2013, 01:54 PM | #24 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Maybe "Float A Motor" bolts on Rubber dough nuts are too tight or too loose or part of the FAM is contacting something?
Car looks like a '28 ... does it have the small piece attached to the rear of the U joint "clam shell" that is maybe contacting the cross member if the rear of the engine too low. Way to check engine angle is to remove carb and put an carburetor choke angle gauge with a "Bubble level" on the carb flange. Should be about 3.5 degrees from horizontal. If angle is way off sometimes the U Joint might be noisy. I carried 600 pounds of tools in the trunk of the My '79 Chevy. The rear bushing in the tail shaft of THM 350 wore out quickly Oblong shaped top to bottom. Tranny guy said it was caused by all the stuff in the trunk causing the drive line angle to be wrong. There is a magnet to hold gauge to carb flange. Last edited by Benson; 04-15-2013 at 02:22 PM. Reason: Spellin' and additional info |
04-17-2013, 02:44 AM | #25 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Thank you for your ideas Benson
All rubber-holding-bolts are tightened somewhat No bad contacts to find. Car is 1929 Good point regarding clam-shell but no - used to grind that "away". Angle is about 3 degrees... Regarding "junk in the trunk"... Ja i got a trunk and ja i use that just for parts and tools (including trunk its about 70pounds). BUT If the rear of the car goes down, the drivetrain will be more straight !! Which means that load on the U-joint and the driveshaft-bearing should be low. |
04-17-2013, 03:29 AM | #26 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
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Your ideas help me as I feel that im not alone and somebody cares No one to ask around here, so I got to rely on friends in the net! Good thing is - Vendors package arrived yesterday 70 items delivered 1 item missing 1 item is …… …the new U-joint i ordered. It was pretty clear in advance, that i couldnt change parts , but i took out rear end anyway. Checked driveshaft bearing . No bigger bearing clearance (just as much as i imagined to be there) …nice and ok BUT No sufficient amount of grease around. Checked U-joint No bearing clearance at all. 9/16 bolt perfect and tight all good More Grease around but might not have been sufficient. I remember that we put in a high adhesive grease onto parts when we installed things and I used my grease gun later on for “a while”. (Allways the point where i put most grease while on start-of-season-grease-session) I know that it has to be a huge amount of grease till its sufficient for the driveshaft bearing and I now put in grease as well as this modern flow-away-type-of-grease (you call that corn-grease?) Well - i packed enough grease last year - why did things go wrong this year? Ironically i changed the grease-fitting of the U-Joint to a new one (with a ball inside) when we had the gearbox out (to change engine). Resistance of this ball type might have been to high for my old rotten grease gun I used the grease-gun after repairs and i remember that i felt the internal compression, but i dont have a glue, where the grease went to. For sure i will get me a new grease gun for my next birthday. Just got the axle back into the car yesterday late in the night (which made me able to push the car into the garage again) Wasnt able to tighten nuts and bolts anymore. Will do that on weekend, drive arround and tell you if it just was the lack of grease which caused my probs. Thank you again Christoph I learned that im to old to go to work all day and do car-repairs in evening-hours (once im tired allready) Should ask for some early-retirement soon |
04-17-2013, 04:26 AM | #27 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Christoff, Too bad you're FAR away, Gregg won a new grease gun at club raffle & gave it to me, I don't have the talent to use 2 grease guns at the same time. Dog doesn't do lube duty!! Gregg's a good kid, (50 year kid?) he even gave me a feeler gauge he won, it's this l---------l thick, must have 77 blades, LIFE IS GOOD!!! bILL w.
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04-17-2013, 04:46 AM | #28 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
Thank you I would have been proud to hold it No big difference from your dog to me - Buster T refuses to do lube duty at all - i dont do them right.... |
04-17-2013, 05:23 AM | #29 |
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Re: New engine does GREAT, but
hello
a way to tell if getting enough greese in u joint housing is to take a bolt out of the odem gear housing on the drive shaft. when you see greese comming from there it should be full. when i put my eng back in my frame it seamed i was putting a lot but did not know where it was going. came on this site and that what was suggested i went pulled a bolt and greese statred comming out the bolt hole kevin 1930 model a 1923 model t roadster p/u |
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