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Old 07-12-2021, 11:22 AM   #1
Woodie1
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Default Engine dies

We have a model A that the engine dies on while driving. It is a new rebuild that has about 750 miles on it now. At first when I got it back it was hard to start. I eventually figured where spark & throttle had to be to get it to start. Last week while on tour it died about 8 times. Did so on another day also. It acts like the gas has been shut off. Once it dies it seems like the only way to get it to run again is for it to be pushed & pop the clutch. This morning I checked the gas flow out of the shut off & it looked good. I pulled the gas line to the carb & it looked good. I checked the carb to manifold bolts for tightness, good. I checked the manifold nuts & they were good. It cranks good once it dies, it just refuses to start. Club members checked the spark while I cranked the engine with the starter & they said there was spark. It just seems to be lack of gas. I also blew air through the vent in the gas cap. I'm lost at this point & afraid to take it out again. More ideas would be appreciated.
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Old 07-12-2021, 11:54 AM   #2
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Default Re: Engine dies

You were right to check for a manifold leak. Get it running around idle speed and spray some starter fluid around the carb flange and intake to engine.
Next time it dies, try to start it, then stick your finger in the carb by the choke blade. It should get wet from fuel.
Last thing that is easy to check is the coil wire. Put a new one on.
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Old 07-12-2021, 12:00 PM   #3
Patrick L.
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Default Re: Engine dies

You said you cleaned the gas cap vent, but, try running it with the gas cap loose just resting in place. See what happens.

Make sure the gas line from the firewall to carb runs downhill the whole way, no uphill or level section.
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Old 07-12-2021, 12:15 PM   #4
Marshall V. Daut
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Check your "Private Messages" in the top right corner of this webpage.
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Old 07-12-2021, 12:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: Engine dies

You said the only way to get it started again is to push it and pop the clutch. I wonder if that indicates that something is intermittently blocking the fuel line, like a piece of gunk in the tank. Push-starting it would jostle the car around and dislodge the gunk for awhile until the flow of fuel into the line pulled it back into place once more, causing the engine to die.
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Old 07-12-2021, 12:59 PM   #6
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When this happens, disconnect the fuel line at the carb and see if you have flow.
Paul in CT
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Old 07-12-2021, 02:25 PM   #7
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Default Re: Engine dies

I think Alex has a good idea of what can be wrong. There was an article recently in one of the Model A magazines where a sealant inside the tank came loose and was floating around and would block the exit of the tank but not when checking the flow. The symptoms were exactly the same. Look inside the tank to see if something is floating around in there.
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A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
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Old 07-12-2021, 02:57 PM   #8
Woodie1
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Default Re: Engine dies

There is no sealant in this tank.
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Old 07-12-2021, 03:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: Engine dies

If It dies at specific miles ( like every 10 miles or so ) Gas cap
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Old 07-12-2021, 03:20 PM   #10
Rob Doe
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Default Re: Engine dies

Fuel or spark. That's the big question. I had a run and die issue a couple months ago. I too had a freshly rebuilt engine. But the car was new to me and it had several issues that I ran into before it was reliable again.

My car turned out to be wired incorrectly for the model A. The ignition switch was wired into the circuit before the coil instead of after the coil. (Between the coil and the points) This prevents you as the driver/mechanic from receiving the correct voltage when following the known trouble shooting voltage tests at the primary terminals of the coil.

I watch to see if the ammeter is flickering from negative to positive when attempting to start the car. (switch on, of course) If you see the flicker then your ignition circuit is at that moment good all the way to the points.

So, assuming you see the flicker when you start the car and it does start; I would immediately try to restart the car when it fails and watch for the flickering ammeter. No flicker no primary ignition circuit, therefore no spark.
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Last edited by Rob Doe; 07-13-2021 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 07-12-2021, 03:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: Engine dies

As for fuel? Post #2 is a simple test. Another that tests at the ultimate point is to carry a spark plug wrench with you. When the car dies, turn the ignition key off and choke the carb while turning the motor a dozen or more cylinders. Quickly remove 2 or three plugs. They should be wet.
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Old 07-12-2021, 03:38 PM   #12
Rob Doe
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You must test the car immediately upon it's having died. Waiting clouds the issue as there are things that change as the car sets and cools, i.e. coils and condensers, frayed wires under the top plate, loose connections and bad grounds. Many here on the forum will chime in with those issues.

When my car died, I would immediately try to restart it and I would not see the normal flicker of the ammeter, and that told me there was a problem in the primary side of the ignition circuit. Ultimately, I had a bad coil and a poor connection inside the distributor at the condenser.
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Last edited by Rob Doe; 07-13-2021 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 07-12-2021, 05:41 PM   #13
Gene F
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Default Re: Engine dies

If you let it idle in the driveway for a while does it die too?
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Old 07-12-2021, 05:51 PM   #14
Woodie1
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Default Re: Engine dies

It would die when running it this morning in the driveway. With the key off, I do get voltage at both sides of the coil. With the key on & the points closed I only see voltage at the passenger side coil terminal. I have never seen the ammeter flicker when trying to start the car.
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Old 07-12-2021, 06:13 PM   #15
nkaminar
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Default Re: Engine dies

Did you take a flashlight and look inside the tank?

The voltage at one side of the would be close to zero with the points closed and the ignition on. From your testing, the ignition seems OK. However the coil could have an issue when heating up after running for a while.
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A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

Last edited by nkaminar; 07-12-2021 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 07-12-2021, 08:13 PM   #16
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Default Re: Engine dies

I think a fuel tank filter (screen) is a godsend for old tractors, and the 30 fordor I'm driving has one as well. The crud wont stop gas flow.

I restored a 54 Farmall and until I installed a Fuel tank filter it made you want to pull your hair out. Would run perfect a while then die like you hit a switch, only to start again a minute later.
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Old 07-12-2021, 08:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: Engine dies

Will it be best to seek help from a professional car mechanic since it seems like you check all the parts that may contribute to the issue.
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Old 07-12-2021, 08:37 PM   #18
Woodie1
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Default Re: Engine dies

The tank does have some surface rust in it. I clean the sediment bowl out about twice a year.
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Old 07-13-2021, 01:45 AM   #19
Rob Doe
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Default Re: Engine dies

Woodie, I edited my comments to you. I woke up in the night and didn't like what I had written.

The telltale flicker in the ammeter during startup did not show up in early cars. There was a service bulletin in 1929, November as I remember, that moved the source (other) end of the wire that is on the negative terminal of the coil to the yellow/black stripe terminal in the junction box. Watch the YouTube video:

Electrical Issues - How to Troubleshoot a Ford Model A

Mr. Reetz explains pretty well the value of this flickering ammeter, and he demonstrates other common issues. The tests you did at the distributor seem to be good as others said. But was it doing that when you couldn't get the car to start?

You're testing for an intermittent problem. You can purchase a spark tester from the major Model A vendors that goes between the coil wire and the distributor or hook a test light to the positive terminal of the coil primary and clamp the probe to the radiator support rods to watch the points open and close as you try to start the car from inside, but that takes time to get things hooked up. You can also pull the coil wire out of the distributor and hold it a quarter or even a half inch from a head nut (clean one) and watch for spark. But that requires a helper unless you are able to work the starter switch by hand and hold the wire at the same time. (car out of gear and chocked)

This forum has many highly experienced contributors. I wouldn't give up too easily.
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Last edited by Rob Doe; 07-13-2021 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 07-13-2021, 07:30 AM   #20
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Default Re: Engine dies

Had the engine sputter and stop issue and I loosened the gas cap and heard the telltale "whoosh". Put cap back on loosely and finished the 65 mile trip. Retightened the cap and the issue happened again. Don't know why after I scolded the cap for misbehaving it didn't fix itself?
Then I took corrective action. I not only used a small wire to clear the vent holes in the cap but took a small drill and enlarged them and added an additional set of holes for good measure. Never had he issue again. Chap
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