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Old 08-20-2021, 02:03 PM   #1
1930artdeco
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Default Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

Ok, time to heat the block around the stuck distributor. What is the best and safest way to heat the block with a hand held torch so I don’t crack it? I can’t seem to find anything on you tube.

Mike
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Old 08-20-2021, 05:11 PM   #2
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

I wouldn't heat the block with a torch at all. The dizzy housing is made out of aluminum, which would melt or become distorted before the cast iron block could be heated enough to expand the opening.
Remove the distributor hold-down bolt. Spray WD-40 all around the base of the dizzy and try to use a pry-bar to push it up between the block and base of the dizzy. You may need to slowly and carefully apply pressure to the pry-bar all the way around the base of the dizzy.
Additionally, I would not try to pry the dizzy out by using a long pry-bar against the bottom of the dizzy head. It might cause a crack at the bottom of the dizzy head.
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Old 08-20-2021, 05:33 PM   #3
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

Agree with the method. I think a true penetrant (which WD-40 is not) would yield quicker results. I like PB Blaster. If it's well and truly stuck time and patience are required.
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Old 08-20-2021, 05:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

use lacquer thinner. it cuts the sluge
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Old 08-20-2021, 07:11 PM   #5
darrell
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

heating the block doesnt hurt the block or dist.heat is the only way for the real bad ones.
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Old 08-20-2021, 07:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

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I used Kroil over several weeks and nothing. I mean she is locked solid into the block. I have a fabric strap wrench I can use on the body-just need to take the vacuum adv. off. I will see if I can get a pry bar under somehow and apply pressure. I also have the plans from another guy who built a tool for this job.

Mike
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Old 08-20-2021, 08:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

It takes an extraordinary amount of heat to heat up a block from the outside. Time and blaster, took 3 weeks and a pool of blaster on a later 400 engine once. Also had 351W on engine stand for couple of months with the blaster and tried heating. Ended up tearing engine apart and driving it out from the bottom. It was a problem back in the day and one of the tool manufactures made what was basically a crow foot and a jack screw that fit under distributor and pushed it up. Wish I could find the maker of the tool or at least a picture. My 351 endeavor turned into a disaster, yes it broke off in the block. Are you just trying to set timing or overhauling?
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Old 08-20-2021, 09:32 PM   #8
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

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Originally Posted by 5851a View Post
It takes an extraordinary amount of heat to heat up a block from the outside. Time and blaster, took 3 weeks and a pool of blaster on a later 400 engine once. Also had 351W on engine stand for couple of months with the blaster and tried heating. Ended up tearing engine apart and driving it out from the bottom. It was a problem back in the day and one of the tool manufactures made what was basically a crow foot and a jack screw that fit under distributor and pushed it up. Wish I could find the maker of the tool or at least a picture. My 351 endeavor turned into a disaster, yes it broke off in the block. Are you just trying to set timing or overhauling?
Something like this?
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Old 08-20-2021, 11:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

This is a set timing and overhaul. That tool that Late Model pictured is his tool and I still have to try and make it. I will report back when I get the chance.

Mike
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Old 08-21-2021, 02:25 AM   #10
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

Use ATF/Acetone 50:50. The absolute best rust buster!
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Old 08-21-2021, 08:09 AM   #11
5851a
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

Late Model, not the same exact tool but the same principle. Looks like it would work.
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Old 08-22-2021, 02:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

Just to add my experience to the discussion, I've tried about five or six different penetrating oils on my stuck distributor (over the last several weeks) with little or no benefit. In the past, I've used most of these products on conventional rust corrosion with good results, so it's not like they're substandard penetrating oils.



My goal is to adjust timing (currently 3 degrees retarded at idle) so I don't want to pull engine. I wonder if that tool late model showed could be used with the engine in the car.

Last edited by JimNNN; 08-22-2021 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 08-22-2021, 10:03 PM   #13
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

Jim,

I haven't tried it in a car, but I built it as small as possible just so it would. I haven't had a chance try it on my 56, but hopefully will this week.
It definitely works great on engines on a stand. I have used it three times so far.

Don
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Old 08-23-2021, 02:49 AM   #14
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out


Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out.
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Old 08-23-2021, 03:26 AM   #15
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

This problem was discussed recently ~ here's the link with some great recommendations..
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=299011
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Old 08-23-2021, 11:06 AM   #16
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, that may or may not work, just thinking out loud - the Y-Block may be almost unique (at least Ford) in the fact that it has an external oil pump and removal of same would allow access to or from the underside of the distributor body itself. Maybe it would be possible to get some oomph on that thing from that direction and drive it out that way.
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Old 08-23-2021, 04:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

No one has mentioned this specifically yet so I will throw my hat in the ring here. I too have dismantled quite a few Y blocks and the distributor can certainly be a headache. While there is good wisdom in the idea of not using heat, I have found that if you use a propane torch (not the OxyAcetylene lol) things can get hot enough without damage tho. It does take a while to heat up the metals of course.
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:11 PM   #18
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

Weelllll, got her out. Not in the most elegant or best way but she is out. Now to get her rebuilt and a new camshaft from the Y Block guy-woohoo!!!

Mike
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File Type: jpeg CB7FF35C-8E04-47FA-8868-10B13C55A104.jpeg (168.4 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpeg 770058FC-D53A-45C1-8D43-D960049DBDC6.jpeg (126.7 KB, 48 views)
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Old 10-07-2021, 12:11 AM   #19
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

Hooray!! Your tenacity paid off
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Old 10-07-2021, 12:43 AM   #20
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

Yeah leverage and hydraulics always win out. Although the win may not be what you wanted��.
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Old 10-10-2021, 05:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

Ok now that I have the distributor out, are there any indicators to look at to determine if it needs a rebuilt? There is up and down movement but I don't detect any side to side movement.


Thanks,


Mike
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Old 10-10-2021, 05:55 PM   #22
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

As far as the up/down movement, there are specs on this. Believe it is in the shop manual
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Old 10-10-2021, 08:59 PM   #23
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

My father used to say many problems could be solved by “brute strength and awkwardness”. Looks like it worked for you. Tim probably knows off hand what the end play should be.
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Old 10-10-2021, 11:12 PM   #24
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

The distributor in my 390 was seized in the block. The distributor is broken where the cap goes on so I was able to be a tad rough on it to remove it. I soaked it for the past week with SeaFoam Deep Creep. Then I used a big pipe wrench and a ball peen hammer to persuade it to loosen. Took a few good wacks on the pipe wrench handle but it loosened up and is now out.
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Old 10-11-2021, 12:32 PM   #25
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

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Originally Posted by 1930artdeco View Post
Ok now that I have the distributor out, are there any indicators to look at to determine if it needs a rebuilt? There is up and down movement but I don't detect any side to side movement.
What flavor Y-Block distributor is this? Somewhere in there around '57 they switched design quite a bit, and after this many trips around the Sun there's no telling which one might have been installed anyway. The reason I ask is because the earlier type uses a rotating ball-bearing points plate, and/or a reluctor part that are getting hard to find. The "comma" style centrifugal weights are available. The hardened steel pins on the comma weights will usually show heavy wear and need replacing, etc.

The thing about a distributor when running contact points hardly any sideplay or runout is really acceptable. The dwell will never really be stable. Depends how picky you are but the distributor is really important to getting a good sharp tune. Let us know what you have.
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Old 10-11-2021, 09:38 PM   #26
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Here is the distributor that came out of the car. I have two other cores. For now I am sticking with points but will eventually put in a pertronix set up.

Mike
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Old 10-11-2021, 10:19 PM   #27
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Default Re: Heating up a block to get stuck dizzy out

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Here is the distributor that came out of the car. I have two other cores. For now I am sticking with points but will eventually put in a pertronix set up.
Mike
Your first photo is the '57 to early '59 style. Photos 3 and 4 look like the '59+ versions.


The '57/'59 version has ball bearings all around the outside, which can need careful cleaning & lubrication for smooth timing advance operation.

The '59+ version uses a single pin pivot (red arrow) that may be slightly less trouble?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 57 dist c.jpg (56.2 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg nos points plate.jpg (45.2 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 59+ dist pivot plate, curved adv arm c.jpg (61.9 KB, 11 views)

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Old 10-12-2021, 06:22 AM   #28
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Default Distributor Rebuilding

You'll have to tear into the ones you have to see what's what. It's good that you have a selection to work with. If they have a lot of miles on them everything will be pretty trashed in terms of wear. The thing about bearings or in this case bushings, the wear is almost imperceptible for a really long time, and then it accelerates rapidly. Slowly at first, then all at once. Really have to use a dial indicator to check for runout.

On an ignition scope you can see this on the pattern, it's called "cam wobble", meaning the distributor cam that the point arm rides. This affects the dwell. I'd have to look it up in the book, but I'd be surprised if the allowable runout is more than .001" or .002". I messed around rebuilding a spare distributor and it turned out to be a much bigger pain in the you know what than it might seem at first, mainly because of parts availability, and excessive wear. This stuff is getting hard to find in serviceable condition.

One thing I discovered is simply replacing the oilite or bronze bushing alone may not be enough to bring it into spec, both the distributor shaft itself and bushing will likely need replacing. Then, this predictably or maybe not so predictably opens yet another issue because, the service replacement distributor shafts are not drilled for the oil pump drive gear, and this needs to be accurately located with a few thousandths of an inch. The only shaft type that appear to be available at least semi-routinely are the ones for the "comma" type centrifugal weights. The reluctors for this type of distributor are getting scarce. The problem with these, is the slots become elongated due to wear. These could be brazed up and filed back to correct dimensions.

The dimension of the distributor housing boss to the machined surface of the drive gear is critical, so mixing and matching gears & shafts & housing to make a serviceable unit is likely not possible, unless you get lucky. For some reason there is not much uniformity in the dimensions of the drive gear. In that sense each one is a custom build.

If you've a motor that won't quite idle smooth or has an annoying stutter at idle once in a while (among other tuning defects) it may just be a worn out distributor. This can sometimes be otherwise a bit hard to disgnose. Bushings eventually wear in an oval or egg shaped pattern, I was testing some home brew ignition condensers on a scope with a spare really worn distributor, and could clearly hear and see this ovoid track reproduced on the screen and coincide in the fluctuating idle like an out of balance washing machine spin cycle. This is one reason for the popularity of the Pertronix or other ignition modules, they are much less susceptible to this and will show an immediate improvement in idle quality.

After reading all this, you might begin to understand why I decided to camp out on eBay, and after several pots of coffee, a three day growth of beard I found a genuine pristine brand new NOS never-been-opened in the box MotorCraft Y-Block distributor for a hunnerd bucks and nearly broke the "Buy It Now" key.
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