1929 double a won't start, help

[Danny Boy]

Hi new here and new to the Model A, I need help.
1929 double A with a model x carburetor that won't start.

Carburetor was rebuilt a few months ago by previous owner and was running.
Mechanic and others messed around with it because they where having trouble starting it. Mechanic removed carburetor and starter and had the starter rebuilt.
Now car won't start and that's when I got involved.

First thing I noticed was the 2 bolts holding the carburetor in place where too short and it had bubbles coming from the gasket.
Fuel valve has a slow leak.
Carburetor is also leaking.
When trying to start the truck it cranks and sounds like it's about to start and then stops after 3 rotations.
After trying to start it the carburetor had gas on it, like its getting fuel sprayed on it. Over the air filter rim and also over top of the bowl area.

So I changed out the bolts a now have a nice seal.
Tried starting it and same outcome.
I opened up the carburetor and it had some black crap in the treads of the(I think it's called a jet) brass needle that unscews from bottom plug hole. I cleaned that out and checked that all the small channels where clean too.

I reinstalled and after a couple of minutes I dident see any fuel leaking.
Tried starting it again and same outcome, nothing besides a few cranks.
Had gas leaking from bottom of carburetor near the air filter, I'm guessing this is normal after trying to start the truck 3 times without any luck, not sure, feel free to tell me I'm wrong about that.

Since the valve is leaking I removed the fuel line for now while I figure this out.
Tomorrow as I'm scratching my head trying to diagnose my problem I'll put the fuel line back in its place and leave it there to check if it's leaking for longer then 2 minutes.

Now my guess it's maybe electrical.
I can hear a spark on the points in the distributor cap when I insert a screwdriver. (only test I've done of the electrical so far)
Sparks plugs are new.

The amp needle on the dash doesn't t wiggle around when I put the key in it. I was told it's supposed to wiggle when the key is set to on. The gauge looks new to me and I do have power.

So tomorrow I'm gonna try again.
Does anyone know where I can find online a wiring diagram? I'm wondering if maybe the mechanic switched or forgot something when he installed the started back on.

Any suggestion on what I should do to diagnose my problem? I really want to get her started this week.

My starting procedure. (maybe I'm forgetting something)
Fuse box under steering has a on/ off switch, switch to on.
Key on
Fuel line valve open
Choke lever 1 turn counterclockwise.
Spark lever up all the way (left hand lever)
Fuel lever at 3 o'clock position (right hand side lever)
Clutch all the way down.
Foot on starter and pull choke lever all the way out for 2 cranks and then close.

[nkaminar]

Check the point gap. Should be 0.020 inch.

Check the timing. Points should just open when timing pin inserted in notch in timing gear and spark lever up.

Change the condensor.

Check sparks at plugs by arranging brass leads so that they are about 1/4 inch from terminal on top of plugs and turn engine over by hand with ignition on. Make sure ignition lever is fully retarded when you do this.

Gap at the end of the distributor rotor should be about 0.025 for all pins in distributor body. Carefully bend brass tip to get proper gap.

Make sure rotor and cap are good. Also distributor housing. If in doubt, replace.

Make sure high tension wire from distributor to coil is inserted all the way.

Make sure points are clean. When closed there should be zero volts at the movable point. Also the ammeter should read about 10 amps discharge when points are closed.

Coil may be bad, replace it if in doubt. Borrow one if possible to test. Don/t leave the ignition on for more than 30 seconds without engine running or coil may become damaged.

[jg61hawk]

All above and try a shot of starting fluid while it is being cranked.

[Danny Boy]

Thank you.
Gonna order a new coil and condenser this morning, having a spare available would be a good idea.
Also needed a gap gauge.

Gonna try all of those options out and post the results.

[Danny Boy]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Check sparks at plugs by arranging brass leads so that they are about 1/4 inch from terminal on top of plugs and turn engine over by hand with ignition on. Make sure ignition lever is fully retarded when you do this.
.

Turn engine by hand, I'm guessing you mean using the hand crank to turn it.
Not sure if the crank is there or not I will have to take a look. If it's not is there is there something else I can use?

[Bob C]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

On the new points the arm is to long and the contacts do not line up. Bratton's has
a new points block that will fix this.
https://www.brattons.com/machined-di...int-block.html

[Danny Boy]

I opened up distributor to look at the points.
Gap is 0.020" I get a good spark from the distributor cap to a engine bolt but not mutch at the points. I used a piece of sand paper to clean both but it dident make mutch of a difference, I get a better spark when touching the points with a screwdriver then when I close them manually.
I checked that distributor timing was good and that rotor gap to distributor pins looked good.
Tried it again and nothing.
Tried a second time and heard a loud POP, came from under the hood and sounded electrical, I climbed out and think I saw a little smoke hanging over the engine, not sure if that was my imagination or not.
Checked fuses and everything looked ok so I tried 2 more times and nothing, no pop this time.

Then it started raining so I had to cover it up and stop for now, if it clears up I'll go back.

Getting a new coil tomorrow morning but no luck finding a condensor yet. Can I test the condenser with a multimeter?

[nkaminar]

Depending on how loose your engine is you may be able to turn it over at the crankshaft pulley. Or if you have a large socket wrench, at the bolt at the from of the crankshaft.

A good ignition system will not spark at the point. If the the condensor is doing its job the excessive current is shunted off to the condensor when the points open.

You can test the condensor with an ohm meter. When you first hook up the meter current will be flowing into the condensor and the resistance reading will be low. When it gets charged the current will stop and the resistance will be infinite. If you reverse the leads the reading will repeat. If it is shorted or open it is bad.

Clean the points with a piece of plan paper after sanding them to remove an sandpaper grit that may still be there.

A loud pop and smoke can sometimes happen because the engine is flooded. Try this: Turn the fuel on at the bottom of the tank and then turn it off. Try starting the engine in the normal way but have the throttle almost fully open and don't choke it for more than 1/2 revolution if cold. Be ready to reduce the throttle if it starts. If it starts and runs then open the fuel valve at the bottom of the tank. If the engine then dies there is something wrong with the carburetor such as a leaky float valve or the float is full of gasoline.

[eagle]

Have you tested the spark at the spark plugs? That should be one of the very first things you do. lift a plug wire and bend it a little until it stays a 1/8 to 1/4 inch off of contact, turn on ignition switch, get low so you are looking straight at the spark gap, then run the started by pushing on the starter contact. You should see a nice even hot spark. If so, move onto fuel, if not start troubleshooting ignition system. Do NOT start replacing parts until you have verified fault. You'll introduce issues into the car and soon you'll have a serious mess. Coils, points, yes even condensers last MANY years, don't assume they need to be replaced, some of the original parts are better than what you can get today.

[1crosscut]

If you are getting a better spark by jumping the points with a screw driver check to make sure that the points are actually closing all the way.

To check spark pull the coil wire out of the top of the distributor and put that end of the coil wire a short distance away from a head nut. Make sure the rub block on the moveable point arm is on the lowest point on the distributor cam. You should be able to repeatedly open the points with a finger nail to see what kind of spark you have. Or while standing on the drivers side of the engine hold the coil wire with your left hand and use your right hand to push down on the starter rod just above the starter to turn the engine over.

Check the carbon contact on the underside of the distributor cap to see if it has worn flat and not contacting the spring wire on the rotor.

[chrs1961815]

Sounds like a distributor problem. But you should also check the coil by pulling the wire out of the distributor cap and holding it an inch away from a head nut. Then turn the engine over. Should be a nice blue spark.

[Robert/Texas]

Watch out for the so called short proof condensers. I went through four of them until the fifth one worked.

[Danny Boy]

Now I'm completely confused.
Put a new coil on and got my old man to help me that way I can test the engine while he starts it.

I have spark on all 4 spark plugs, timing looks right.
But no start.
Fuel is coming out of the carburetor jet fine.

I removed the air filter on the carburetor and sprayed starter fluid as my dad hit the starter and all I got was a backfire.

Edit: also tried adjusting the screw on the carburetor at 1 turn and at 2 turns and 3 turns.
Also tried with choke lever (fuel rich adjustment) at 1 turn and 2 turns all the way up to 5 turns opens.
Got nothing.

Carburetor dosent drip anymore, atleast I got that right.
I only get a drip out of the back after trying to start it, bigger drip when I try to start it choked but I think that's normal if the engine dosent start.

Fuel runs fine into the bowl and stops when bowl is full, tried starting with a full carburator and fuel valve off and nothing happens.

[Gary WA]

Do you have a fuse by starter? Check

[Danny Boy]

Checked its good.
Fuse on starter side and 3 under the dash, all good

[jg61hawk]

Fuel, Spark, Compression and Timing. So shut off all gas, remove all plugs, ground plugs to head have dad crank put thumb over plug hole watch plug...as your thumb tests the compression you look for plug to spark....do all 4. Now you checked spark and compression and timing (shade tree style). Did your thumb get pushed off the hole? Did the spark occur at the exact time? Let's say yes...Now leave fuel OFF and crank...now spray a few shots into carburetor with gas off (this way it's not flooded.) Does it run or only backfire? Backfire still....possibly bad condenser. Does it run on starting fluid for a second or two....carb is no good....probably float issues...flooding. Just my opinions as quick checks.

[Danny Boy]

Alone at the moment, so I just pulled the condenser and now I'm gonna go get my multimeter to test it, forgot it in my dad's car, lol.
If that's good my next step is a compression test, but I'm very doubtful it's a mechanical problem.

[Danny Boy]

Just tested the condenser, résistance goes up steady and when I reverse it discharges and then starts charging up again at a mutch lower resistance.
I guess that means it's works, crap I was hoping that was problem.

I just finished cleaning the carburator, nothing wrong with it that I can see, flange was a little warped so I sanded it down a bit.

[nkaminar]

Change the condensor anyway.

[Danny Boy]

Out of stock localy, can't get a condenser here until next week.

[Danny Boy]

Can the distributor cap have a short and still spark?
That wire between the 2 plates, I noticed that is has a spot on the insulation thats lying flat on a pin set in the bottom plate. At that specific spot the insulation is embedded in rust, the insulation is fabric.

[emf]

In my mind, if you got a backfire, you have sufficient spark at the plugs. Sounds to me that the timing if off. Either the wires have been shifted in the distributor cap or the point cam has moved slightly. Re-check the timing at the distributor and you may have it...


Frank

[Danny Boy]

I just assemble everything back together and gave her a go and got a few pops out of her.

How can I post pictures?
Can anyone tell what the fitting is above the carburetor flange, its a compression fitting with a piece of pipe that's been pinched off, it screws in about 3 inches above the carburetor flange.

[Ernie Vitucci]

Good Morning...Sounds like a cut off vacuum line for the windshield Wipers. It might well be leaking and changing you mixture by letting in too much air...lean mixture. Best to remove it and put a proper plug in the manafold. The major suppliers have the plug, but if you take the one you take out to your hardware store...I'll bet they have a plug is the plumbing department...Ernie in Arizona

[katy]

Originally Posted by Danny Boy

Out of stock localy, can't get a condenser here until next week.

You could temporarily wire in a different condenser at the distributor side of the coil after removing the condenser from the distributor.

[Danny Boy]

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NEW SYMPTOM
Fuel is spayed out the back of the carburetor towards the air filter???

I put everything back in its place and also redid the timing on the distributor.
I checked the compression on each piston from the spark plug hole and I get a good air push from all of them.

This time i got 2 pops that sounded like that sounded like they came from the front near the carburator intake.

The gas flows back towards the air filter? If I give it alot of gas and use the choke it actually sprays out around the choke plate when it's closed, alot.
I checked through the spark plug hole and the chamber is bone dry, all 4 of them.
??? Help

[katy]

It sounds like you may have sticking valve(s)

[jg61hawk]

Could be the exhaust valve(s) aren't closing....some guys have suggested in other posts to spray Marvel Mystery Oil into the carb while cranking it over to help sticky valves. Some sprayed into the cylinders may help. Did it sit for a long time? It looks like in your first post here the engine ran only several months ago....in that case I doubt the valves are sticky. I don't know how much room you have but a good push start attempt may help a lot of issues...could you get three guys to push you in first gear for a few blocks? And don't choke it like like a lawn mower, the choke gets held for a second or two while cranking then let it go...keep cranking they usually start right after that.

[Danny Boy]

She was parked inside for a few months (supposedly running fine)
Towed on a Flatbed for a 2 hour drive.
Was started at the garage it arrived at once by someone who had zero experience driving it.
What I was told is that it was hard to start and ran rough.
Was driven about 1km away and ran out of gas.
They pushed it the rest of the way (50 feet).
And hasent moved/started since, that was in April I believe.

Dude who drove it says it was running hot and rough.
I'm gonna speak with that guy tomorrow and get the full story from him directly.

They killed 2 full size 6v battery trying to start it.
And by what I could tell they gave it alot of choke and the fuel enrichment dial on the choke pull was set to 5 full rotations when I touched it the first time.

They probably flooded it over and over again every few days.
Could flooding it and then letting it dry over and over again have gunked up the valves and now they stuck? Does that make sense?

[Rob Doe]

Danny, I had trouble with my car that was very similar. It was new to me too. Although I knew a bit about A's from my youth, 50 years ago.

You probably have a cell phone; take pictures I believe the yellow box just above where you type your reply can be used to upload an image. I would transfer the images to my computer and log on there to upload and reply.

The suggestions given above are all good, but are not in particular order. There are reasons for this. Experience tells the guys on the forum to share known causes from personal experience first in hopes of solving your problem quickly. From the detail of your posts, I cannot discern whether you have correctly checked any of them. We don't know your skill set. Here are some questions I have after reading above:

What make of carb is "model X"? Take a picture. If Zenith, it has a round float bowl with the name embossed on it. A Tillotson or Marvel Shebler as I recall have a rectangular bowl and the float is hinged 90 degrees to the centerline of the car.

Is your distributor set up as stock or with modern upper plate with condenser on top and modern points? If modernized, a condenser and points can be purchased at NAPA. Otherwise, Model A vendors supply antique style parts. Take a picture with cap and body off.

Is the truck wired 6v positive ground? If so, a 12v coil is not a good idea, unless the primary circuit is 3 ohm or there is an internal or external (resistor???) to make it operate at ~ 3 ohm? A picture of the coil hookups would help. If the truck is wired as a Model AA then the red wire needs to be on the + connection and the wire should run to the keyed switch. The black wire should be on the - side and come from the yellow/black stripe wire in the terminal box.

"Timing looks good." Did you pull the timing pin and locate the dimple then place the distributor cam properly with the advance lever all the way up? A picture, with a straight down view of your distributor with the rotor and body on, cap off and timing pin in the dimple at the front lower right of the engine will reveal the accuracy of your efforts.

Danny, I'd like to suggest a test for fuel, but there is a lot to digest above. Give us some feed back on my questions. Others wiser than I may step in. Take your time. Don't give up.

[1crosscut]

Danny I may have missed it in an earlier post of yours but if you share where you are located there just might be one of us Barner's close enough to you to help.

[Danny Boy]

Thanks for the above info, it's late and I'm tired so I'll get back to you on most it with pics.

I'm in Quebec Canada Gatineau/Ottawa region.
Carb is a tillotson model x,
Looks exactly like this https://www.google.com/search?q=Ford...gfZ_oTQDg4:185

[Tom Wesenberg]

It ran in April, though briefly. Too bad, as when an engine first starts cold it makes a lot of condensation, and that can rust rings and valves. I learned this the hard way back in the 70's when I ran two of my antiques cars for only 10 minutes or less, then went to start them 6 months later. Both engines were stuck solid.

Best to never start a cold engine unless it runs for at least 30 minutes.

[Danny Boy]

Carb is a tillotson model x.
Old distributor, I think most of the car is actually stock and original.
I checked timing originally to make sure it was good before messing with the distributor.
I checked it by making sure piston 1 was at correct height (all the up basically).
I marked the location and re assembled as it was.
After I put everything back together I checked again and it looks spot on.
I don't have the crank so I'm gonna go buy a cheap 1 3/8" to make myself a wrench to turn the crank and make sure my timing is 100%.

I got some new info about the truck, it did start a few times after it was parked up to about 4~5 weeks ago it actually started but was hard to do.

He was told to start it spark lever Down all the way and Throtle down all the way.
1 to 5 turns on choke knob and just a little choke for 1 or 2 revolutions at a time.
He said it was hard to start and would flood most of the time, he confirms removing spark plugs to confirm it was soaked. He did this a bunch of times until the battery died, it would start sometimes and sometimes it was flooded to badly.
Second battery he had was new and he almost drained it trying to start the car, he got disappointed and brought car to garage for the leaky carb.
Mecanic had the starter rebuild with new windings.
And was trying to diagnose the carburetor when I got involved and asked to take a look. I when to see that Mecanic and told him what was happening and he said he had the same problem, carburator doing its job but in the wrong direction, no vaccum in fuel intake.

My timing might be off a little but even if it is Im close enough to get a reaction from the engine and I'm not getting anything besides starter cranks.

I gave the guy the key yesterday and watched him try to start it. The Carb has a tiny hole underside at the air intake, it's a factory hole and probably there to let fuel out in case of a leak or excessive fuel. The fuel was spraying out of the hole like a modern car injector, not a drop made it to the engine.

So what I'm getting from the engine is air coming out of the fuel intake instead of a vaccum.

I added last night a teaspoon of marvel mystery oil to each piston and I hit the starter to spread it all over, then I added another teaspoon and left it alone.

My plan is to buy a wrench to cut and weld back in appropriate shape so I can check the timing to make sure it's perfect and also take a good look inside the piston chambers to see what's moving and check if I've got a stuck valve somewhere.

When I check the compression by pulling the spark plugs and cranking the engine I got air pushing out but I didn't feel air getting sucked in. That's why I'm thinking stuck valve.

Pictures need to be hosted on a dire rent website to post them I see, I'll do that and post pictures of my timing, any image hosting website you guys recommend?

If your still reading this lol here's a little backstory.
Where 2 guys I'm 42 my partner is 50. We started a distillery and want that truck and as promotional.
It's a artisanal distillery and where distilling maple syrup . We have a prohibition era feel too our business and everything is very very traditional.
We want use the the truck for special events and branding, where even getting a label made with the Model AA and screen hand printed t shirts.
I've seen my partner with the truck and also the mecanic and others and to be honest I don't like it lol. I tried not to get involved but I couldn't let that truck be handled like that. So I wanna get her going so I can drive her home and do some needed work on it with TIME AND PATIENCE and actual good information about the truck instead of "some guy who knows cars said put that spark lever all the way down when driving and starting the car".
The truck is pictured on Wikipedia btw, we found it looking for info about the model aa at some point.
It's the first picture under Variants, the green model AA with a tall wood box frame, dude with the puffy hair next to the truck is the guy who sold it to us btw.

Carb is a tillotson model x.
Old distributor, I think most of the car is actually stock and original.
I checked timing originally to make sure it was good before messing with the distributor.
I checked it by making sure piston 1 was at correct height (all the up basically).
I marked the location and re assembled as it was.
After I put everything back together I checked again and it looks spot on.
I don't have the crank so I'm gonna go buy a cheap 1 3/8" to make myself a wrench to turn the crank and make sure my timing is 100%.

I got some new info about the truck, it did start a few times after it was parked up to about 4~5 weeks ago it actually started but was hard to do.

He was told to start it spark lever Down all the way and Throtle down all the way.
1 to 5 turns on choke knob and just a little choke for 1 or 2 revolutions at a time.
He said it was hard to start and would flood most of the time, he confirms removing spark plugs to confirm it was soaked. He did this a bunch of times until the battery died, it would start sometimes and sometimes it was flooded to badly.
Second battery he had was new and he almost drained it trying to start the car, he got disappointed and brought car to garage for the leaky carb.
Mecanic had the starter rebuild with new windings.
And was trying to diagnose the carburetor when I got involved and asked to take a look. I when to see that Mecanic and told him what was happening and he said he had the same problem, carburator doing its job but in the wrong direction, no vaccum in fuel intake.

My timing might be off a little but even if it is Im close enough to get a reaction from the engine and I'm not getting anything besides starter cranks.

I gave the guy the key yesterday and watched him try to start it. The Carb has a tiny hole underside at the air intake, it's a factory hole and probably there to let fuel out in case of a leak or excessive fuel. The fuel was spraying out of the hole like a modern car injector, not a drop made it to the engine.

So what I'm getting from the engine is air coming out of the fuel intake instead of a vaccum.

I added last night a teaspoon of marvel mystery oil to each piston and I hit the starter to spread it all over, then I added another teaspoon and left it alone.

My plan is to buy a wrench to cut and weld back in appropriate shape so I can check the timing to make sure it's perfect and also take a good look inside the piston chambers to see what's moving and check if I've got a stuck valve somewhere.

When I check the compression by pulling the spark plugs and cranking the engine I got air pushing out but I didn't feel air getting sucked in. That's why I'm thinking stuck valve.

Pictures need to be hosted on a dire rent website to post them I see, I'll do that and post pictures of my timing, any image hosting website you guys recommend?

If your still reading this lol here's a little backstory.
Where 2 guys I'm 42 my partner is 50. We started a distillery and want that truck and as promotional.
It's a artisanal distillery and where distilling maple syrup . We have a prohibition era feel too our business and everything is very very traditional.
We want use the the truck for special events and branding, where even getting a label made with the Model AA and screen hand printed t shirts.
I've seen my partner with the truck and also the mecanic and others and to be honest I don't like it lol. I tried not to get involved but I couldn't let that truck be handled like that. So I wanna get her going so I can drive her home and do some needed work on it with TIME AND PATIENCE and actual good information about the truck instead of "some guy who knows cars said put that spark lever all the way down when driving and starting the car".
The truck is pictured on Wikipedia btw, we found it looking for info about the model aa at some point.
It's the first picture under Variants, the green model AA with a tall wood box frame, dude with the puffy hair next to the truck driver door is the guy who sold it to us btw.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_AA

More truck history, He rebuilt it for his dad in 2000 as promo for his dads landscaping business. Has been run 8000km since the rebuilt in 2000. Dad passed away a couple years ago and that why he put it up for sale.

Truck was also in a movie, French

We aren't planning on ever selling it,

More truck history, He rebuilt it for his dad in 2000 as promo for his dads landscaping business. Has been run 8000km since the rebuilt in 2000. Dad passed away a couple years ago and that why he put it up for sale.

Truck was also in a movie, French movie from Quebec "La Bolduc" in 2018

We aren't planning on ever selling it,

[Danny Boy]

Rob d'or, I'll check the wiring today and post back, thanks I was a little confused about that.

1crosscut, thanks, your right, look what I found https://www.canadascapitalas.com/

I'm gonna contact them for sure.

[Tom Wesenberg]

To start the spark lever should be all the way UP, not down, and the throttle lever should only be down a couple clicks.

It's easy to remove the side cover to see if all the valves are working, but a compression check is easier and should tell if they are all working.

[Rob Doe]

Danny, a couple thoughts:

The distributor rotor should be aimed at the right front headlight or close when the timing pin is in the dimple; it would aim at the light on a car, but the truck might be a little different.

The distributor rotor turns counter clockwise when the engine is running.

The distributor fires all 4 cylinders in one complete revolution and turns at 1/2 the speed of the crankshaft, so 2 revolutions of the crankshaft fire all 4 cylinders, one every 180 degrees.

You said that you checked for all the way up on the #1 piston. The piston will be all the way up twice in one firing cycle. You want the Top Dead Center, (TDC) that has compression. Put your thumb over the hole as previously mentioned by another forum member. I assume you used a small light and looked through the spark plug hole. On my car it is possible to see a small moon shaped slice of the top of the piston with a light, timing pin in the dimple.

I tell you these things because as a teenager I got my car out of time by incorrectly choosing the wrong contact pin in the distributor body. Many people have confused the Model A Owners Manual description and timed the engine 180 degrees out. The manual used the term ~ "opposite number one contact". The #1 pin in the distributor upper body is on the lower right if you are on the right side of the car with your head above the distributor.

[Danny Boy]

We pushed the car in 3rd to get the timing pin set.
I saw distributor go counter clockwise, thanks for that Rob. Wrong edge was set as timing.
So now on passenger side of car looking at distributor my brass tab edge is perfectly inline with the #1 piston pin and points are closing right at that moment.

Thanks for that.
I'm putting a fresh battery in and giving it a try again.

[nkaminar]

How to time the engine.

The distributor turns counter clockwise. The points should just start to OPEN when the timing is correct. Before starting make sure the points are set at 0.020 gap when the cam is at the maximum opening of the points.

Do this with the ignition off.

Unscrew the timing pin and turn it around so that the point is in the hole. Turn the engine over until the pin pops into the detent in the timing gear. If you miss and over turn the engine you can turn it back.

Remove the distributor rotor and housing and loosen the screw that holds the points cam from turning. Turn the cam so that the brass arm on the rotor is pointing to number one cylinder. If you need to, re install the rotor and housing to determine if the brass arm is pointed to the right plug, and then re remove them again.

Fully retard the spark lever (all the way up).

Rotate the cam slightly clockwise so that the points are closed. Rotate the cam counter clockwise so that the points are just opening. Tighten the screw.

Rotate the cam clockwise with your fingers until it stops and the points should be closed. A slight movement counter clockwise should just start to open the points. (An ohm meter can help but I usually just use my eyeball and feel with my fingers.) If the slight counter clockwise movement does not start to open the points, make a minor adjustment in the cam and try again. Usually you will have to turn the cam a little more counter clockwise.

Tighten the screw and put everything back together. Make sure the high tension wire from the coil is fully inserted in the coil and distributor cap.

Make sure you put the timing pin back properly.

[Bob C]

Check out this link to Marco's timing instructions.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140902...hop/timing.htm


"Pictures need to be hosted on a dire rent website to post them I see, I'll do that and post pictures of my timing, any image hosting website you guys recommend?"
You can post pictures from your computer, no need to use a hosting site.

"

[Danny Boy]

I found the local model A club in Ottawa.
Ok I timed it right this time, did it while on the phone with club organizer.
He sent some stuff about timing and I'm looking at what you guys are saying and my timing was off.
It's good now
Thanks for that guys.

Now if I try to start it the right way I get nothing and the carburetor is spraying fuel in perfect rhythm with the engine crank.
Except it's spraying out the hole on the bottom of the carburetor, if I remove the air filter it sprays out of the opening of the choke plate.
It looks like the spray I should get from the carburetor but it's going the wrong way.

If I give her a little more throttle or some choke when I'm trying to start it I get a backfire in the carburator
I can see the smoke from the backfire come out the carbs vent hole or through the hole at the bottom.
Wow is that ever scary when it backfires in the carburator so I'm a little reluctant of cranking for a long time.

[Rob Doe]

Danny, I did a 'Search this Forum' request for "Distributor rotor". About the 5th thread down a thread called "Distributor rotor" has two pictures of what you should see if your timed correctly. One is by LEM the thread creator, and the other is by Tom Wesenberg down in the thread. Both are correct.

[Bob C]

As mentioned before sounds like you have an intake valve sticking open.

[Rob Doe]

Time to do a compression test with a gauge. The screw threads on the A's plugs are 7/8-18. My automotive compression tester measures 14MM and 18MM only. I had to order an adapter that screws into the plug hole from Snyder's or Bratton's to use it. There is a kind of tester with a conical shaped rubber end that just pushes into the plug hole. My friend brought me one after I had already gone the other direction.

As stated by Bob C above, I don't see how air could push/force fuel from the intake of the carb unless at least one intake valve is hung open.

There is an old timers trick I have read, posted by a senior member on another forum. Years ago they poured a cup of kerosene into each cylinder and left it for a couple days. Seems that kerosene is good at freeing sticky valves. I'll see if I can find that.

Tom, above suggested removing the valve cover just under the manifolds and watching the valves as you use the starter. Plugs out. Fuel off. etc.

As to pushing the car in 3rd gear to set the timing pin accurately, I have found that I can do it alone by pushing or pulling on the right front tire.

[jg61hawk]

Can you tow it around the block a few times in gear...leave the gas / key off don't even try to start it....let the valves work for awhile. You could remove the side valve cover and mist Mystery Oil in there too... try the easy stuff before you decide to start pulling the head and things. Blowing back out the rear of the carb is pretty much a stuck open valve or I guess a head gasket could do that???

[nkaminar]

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If the carburetor is spraying gasoline with every stroke of the engine then there is too much gasoline. Don't turn the gas on at the bottom of the tank and only choke for 1/2 revolution. Leave the air cleaner off. Backfiring at the carburetor is another sign that the engine is flooded. Or, as others have indicated, if you have a leaky intake valve that can cause a backfire in the carburetor. Or, as others have indicted, if the spark is on the wrong plug that can cause a backfire.

[katy]

Originally Posted by Danny Boy

My plan is to buy a wrench to cut and weld back in appropriate shape so I can check the timing to make sure it's perfect and also take a good look inside the piston chambers to see what's moving and check if I've got a stuck valve somewhere.

You can use a socket and an extension through the hand crank hole.

[Rob Doe]

[QUOTE=Rob Doe;2045371 Is the truck wired 6v positive ground? If so, a 12v coil is not a good idea, unless the primary circuit is 3 ohm or there is an internal or external (resistor???) to make it operate at ~ 3 ohm? A picture of the coil hookups would help. If the truck is wired as a Model AA then the red wire needs to be on the + connection and the wire should run to the keyed switch. The black wire should be on the - side and come from the yellow/black stripe wire in the terminal box. [/QUOTE]


Danny, I had an error in my previous comment. the primary should be 3 ohm not 4. Sorry for that, I already edited it.

[jg61hawk]

So did anything work?

[katy]

Originally Posted by Rob Doe

Danny, I had an error in my previous comment. the primary should be 3 ohm not 4. Sorry for that, I already edited it.

~3 ohm primary is a 12 volt coil, 6 volt coil should have ~1.5 ohm primary

[Danny Boy]

Hi, sorry I didn't reply earlier, busy weekend and then on Monday my van starter just died, so now I have 2 vehicles to fix.

Here's s the pictures I promised for timing and wiring.

In the distributor picture my timing pin is set and piston 1 is top dead center and spark lever is in fully retarded position.
Points are closing right there.

Can anyone tell me if that is correct please?

I have a cut red wire inside that wiring junction box.
I haven't opened the panel inside the cabin but I think the amp meter isn't wired in.

[Danny Boy]

While I was moving/pushing the truck to set my timing pin I noticed a valve in piston #1 that looked like it was open all the time.

Inside the piston chamber the pistons are toward the driver side and the valves are towards the passenger side.
While standing at the passenger side of the engine the valve on the left is the one that looks always open. Valve is toward back of the vehicle, is that exhaust?

I got a small camera from a friend and I plan on flashing a light inside each chamber with the camera filming while pushing the truck in third gear.

[Bob C]

When the timing pin drops in at TDC the points should just be opening not closing.
If I understand correctly that would be #1 intake valve staying open.

[katy]

Originally Posted by Bob C

When the timing pin drops in at TDC the points should just be opening not closing.
If I understand correctly that would be #1 intake valve staying open.

Ditto

W/the pin in the dimple the points should JUST be starting to open.

The valves are, from front to rear E,I, I,E, E,I, I,E.

[jg61hawk]

Is the +positive side of that coil on the passenger side of the car...Very hard to see but it looks like it is not.

[Danny Boy]

So as pictured (distributor rotor right hand edge on the #1 piston pin)
The points should be closed and just about to open?
With spark retarder all the way up.


Positive is towards the drivers side, on the right.
Negative is toward the passenger, on the left.

[jg61hawk]

Positive is towards the drivers side, on the right.
Negative is toward the passenger, on the left.

That coil is the opposite of Model A coils as the +Positive terminal on the Model A coil mounted wire down is on the passenger side. I have no idea how this may be affecting you but it could be a significant problem...Unless of course whoever wired it was aware of the switch...I don't mean to imply the coil matters but how it is wired does. Others smarter than me will need to address this...Somewhere on this forum are several good easy wiring diagrams...I searched quick but didn't find one I wanted....

[Bob C]

This is what the rotor should look like as the points just start to open.

[Danny Boy]

Thanks for the pic, I just checked and that's exactly what I've got.

I replaced the coil with that one while troubleshooting, the other one was wired the same way.
If I remember correctly it's a oil filled one and it's possible it got switched around at some point by the garage who worked on the starter.

Oh and can someone confirm spark gap I should have? I have some new autolite 3076 in there. But speaking with Model A group here and I was told it's the right spark plug but my gap is wrong gap. I have a gap of 0.024~0.025 put I was told it should be 0.035. What do you guys think?
I know plugs that where in there before where champion x14 and I was told it should of been x16.

[nkaminar]

Quote: "In the distributor picture my timing pin is set and piston 1 is top dead center and spark lever is in fully retarded position.
Points are closing right there."

There is a small amount of play in the rotor. It moves counter clockwise. If you move the rotor clockwise with your fingers to take up the play the points should be closed. If you then move the rotor counter clockwise with your fingers the play in the distributor will allow the points to open slightly.

A compression test with a gauge will tell you if you have a stuck valve or other mechanical problem.

The plug gaps should be 0.035 inch.

There is a tool available to check coil polarity, see https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P.../model-a/tools However you can use a volt meter and read the polarity on the coil. It should have a + and a - or may have dist and batt or something like that. Modern coils assume a negative ground so batt would be positive and dist would be negative. So if you have a positive ground then dist, being negative, would go to the battery and batt, being positve, would go to the distributor.

[Rob Doe]

Quote "Thanks for the pic, I just checked and that's exactly what I've got."

So the first picture in the three pictures posted in post #51 isn't what you have for timing? Your picture does not match the picture sent to you in post #58. Your picture is out of time a large amount.(advanced approximately 15 -20 distributor degrees which is double that in crankshaft degrees)

[Bob C]

You can see the one you posted is not the same as the one I posted.

[Danny Boy]

The rotor goes counter clockwise, In my picture the brass tab right hand edge is inline withe the #1 and the points close.
In the other picture the brass tabs left hand edge is inline with the #1 and the points are opening.

So as the rotor turns counter clockwise and the spark lever is fully up, the points are closing when the rotor comes in front of the #1 pin and after its travels the lenght of the brass tab it opens just as the brass tab leaves the #1 pin.

Basically points close when inline with the brass rotor and opens just as the rotation causes the brass tab to leave the pin. If I move the timing anymore clockwise the points would close on air before it makes contact with pin #1.

Theres a bit of play in my cam but not that mutch. I kept it tight clockwise since that's how the rotor gets pushed around. Just like I've seen people set the timing on videos with that nu hex key, "2 rotations clockwise to take out the slack".

[jg61hawk]

Assuming you have the timing set, and are getting spark at the plugs and your concern is the valve I would still respectfully suggest towing the vehicle several blocks in gear to get everything moving and see if the valves loosen up without any more labor / disassembly. I would leave key and gas off.

[nkaminar]

So, just to be clear, are the points just opening when the timing pin is in the detent in cam gear and the timing lever is all the way up?

[Rob Doe]

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Dan, I'll remind you that the coil primary circuit's magnetic field collapses when the points open. This instantly induces a high voltage/pressure but low amperage (milliamp) current that fires (is capable of bridging the gap) at the spark plug.

In short, plugs fire when points open. Not when they close.

If when you took your picture of the rotor the pin was seated in the dimple of the timing gear:

1. Remove the rotor and loosen the distributor cam until it is loose to your finger movements. (doesn't drag the distributor shaft along with it)

2 Put the rotor back on and aim it directly at the #1 contact pin. (contact pin is centered in the middle of the rotor tab. This assures that you are at the correct lobe of the cam.)

3. Remove the rotor again, and with your fingers rotate the distributor cam counter clockwise until the point block opens the points wide.

4. Then, without letting go of the cam, move it clockwise until the points just close.

Perform 3 and 4 as a smooth single motion, pausing to see the points wide open and then just closing.

5. Lock the cam in this position by tightening the cam screw. You need a cam wrench to do this with accuracy, (they cost a buck or two) but if you hold the cam as best you can with your fingers and then tighten the rest of the way carefully, I think the position of your rotor will be as it should.

[Danny Boy]

So what you guys are saying is the points should close just before the brass tab hits the #1 pin?
And they should open before it leaves the brass tab, it should be just opening when centered on the brass tab?
So the spark happens when it opens?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm the kind of person who needs to understand the whole process lol.

Btw with my timing pin set I checked that my piston #1 was top dead center and I can easily feel that the valve is sticking up and open. I'm no expert but since that's the moment spark happens shouldn't both valves be flush and closed.

[Rob Doe]

Quote,"So what you guys are saying is the points should close just before the brass tab hits the #1 pin? And they should open before it leaves the brass tab, it should be just opening when centered on the brass tab?"

No, that is not what we're saying. You are timing the car to a specific moment in time. The question is not specific enough and would require too much explanation.

Quote,"So the spark happens when it opens?

Yes. Absolutely, yes. Replace the words "it opens" with "the points open". The coil has two independent circuits. They are not connected to one another. In fact, they are insulated to protect them from touching one another. The coil operates on the principles of magnetism and the "magic" of building and collapsing, invisible magnetic fields.

Quote, "Btw with my timing pin set I checked that my piston #1 was top dead center and I can easily feel that the valve is sticking up and open. I'm no expert but since that's the moment spark happens shouldn't both valves be flush and closed?"

At TDC on #1 cylinder, both valves should be closed completely. In fact, the two valves should be closed tight enough (sealed so perfectly) that if the cylinder were inverted and holding a small amount of gasoline, it would hold that gasoline a long while. This would indicate the valves were properly lapped in???

[nkaminar]

Plugs fire when point open.

Both valves should be closed when at TDC of power stroke. If not there could be a valve that is sticking or the valve latch could be way off. Try spraying some light oil that is used to loosen things, like WD-40 or Marvel Mystery Oil so that it runs down the valve stem or into the intake manifold when cranking the engine over or, better still, when the engine is running. Or, take the valve cover off and spray the light solvent oil in there while working the valves and lifters up and down by turning the engine over with the starter. A sticking valve will be obvious. Test the valve lash by trying to rotate the tappets when the valves are completely down. Make sure the cam is on the heel.

If there is an intake valve that is staying open then this could explain the backfiring through the carburetor.

[nkaminar]

One other point: If the piston is at TDC between the exhaust stroke and the intake stroke the intake valve will be slightly open and the also the exhaust valve. These are very slight openings so if the piston is not exactly at TDC one of the valve could be open. The engine does this to improve the breathing, providing a little lag in the exhaust valve closing and a little advance in the intake valve opening.

You need to make sure that the timing pin is in the detent to know if you are at TDC for the power stroke and not TDC for the beginning of the intake stroke.

[Big hammer]

In a 4 stroke internal combustion engine the piston is at TDC twice, once on the END compression stoke and once at the end of exhaust stroke when the intake valve is opening. This is where your wrong, your 180 degrees out.

With all the spark plugs out, hand crank the motor and with your thumb over #1 spark plug hole you will feel or hear air coming out, this is the compression stroke, this is when the timing pin should drop pop in ! and this is when your points should open and fire the #1 spark plug, the rotor should be adjusted pointing to the #1 pin in the dizzy cap. Go back and look at the pictures posted, the correct picture and your wrong picture of the rotor.

In your picture showing the rotor I think I see the heat shroud around the rotor, is the bottom of your distributor open broken out ?

[katy]

Originally Posted by Danny Boy

The points should be closed and just about to open?

You got it.

[katy]

Originally Posted by jg61hawk

Positive is towards the drivers side, on the right.
Negative is toward the passenger, on the left.

That coil is the opposite of Model A coils as the +Positive terminal on the Model A coil mounted wire down is on the passenger side. I have no idea how this may be affecting you but it could be a significant problem...Unless of course whoever wired it was aware of the switch...I don't mean to imply the coil matters but how it is wired does. Others smarter than me will need to address this...Somewhere on this forum are several good easy wiring diagrams...I searched quick but didn't find one I wanted....

The coil polarity won't affect whether it starts or not. It may affect how good it runs, but not whether it starts or not.

[Danny Boy]

Ok I think I understand, I towed it to my place this week to be able to work on it. I have a very long driveway so tomorrow with some patience I will get some help and push her for a few slow rotations and really look at the timing in detail.

I've been looking at that valve since I noticed it and I'm pretty sure it's not moving but I will make sure by rolling it over a few rotations.

Here's a dumb question, can I tap on that valve to "unstick" it?
With a rubber mallet and a hard piece of plastic so I don't scratch or chip anything.
I did add a bit of marvel oil into each chamber, added a little yesterday again.

I'm ordering that timing nu hex wrench today, should of done that a week ago

[Rob Doe]

Originally Posted by katy

The coil polarity won't affect whether it starts or not. It may affect how good it runs, but not whether it starts or not.

x2. General aviation, piston driven aircraft engines ignition systems are driven with magnetos. An aircraft magneto produces AC current to fire the plugs.

[Rob Doe]

Originally Posted by Danny Boy

Ok I think I understand, I towed it to my place this week to be able to work on it. I have a very long driveway so tomorrow with some patience I will get some help and push her for a few slow rotations and really look at the timing in detail.

I've been looking at that valve since I noticed it and I'm pretty sure it's not moving but I will make sure by rolling it over a few rotations.

Here's a dumb question, can I tap on that valve to "unstick" it?
With a rubber mallet and a hard piece of plastic so I don't scratch or chip anything.
I did add a bit of marvel oil into each chamber, added a little yesterday again.

I'm ordering that timing nu hex wrench today, should of done that a week ago

I suggest cleaning the contact pins on the distributor upper body. The Nu Rex wrench should get you back in the game. I predict that: Once you see the proper points to cam relationship from a properly timed position, the dominoes will fall over for you. Hang in there.

[jg61hawk]

Can you post a picture of the timing cover...I can't tell but others here will be able to tell if somewhere a Model B cover was put on...that changes the timing pin location and then that creates a real puzzle. Moving it certainly could help un stick the valve, it will move oil into the area and hopefully things loosen up. Others here could also answer. Will it run on three cylinders? I know you can leave one plug off and they run, but with the valve creating blow back would they still run? This is a good thread (maybe not for you Danny) but I'm learning a lot and printing a lot for my own notes...Thanks guys for the knowledge you are willing to share.

[Danny Boy]

Are you kindling me, this is a great thread. I'm actually having fun diagnosing this truck while learning alot.

When I spoke with the previous owner he mentioned having alot of trouble timing the truck.
He said he changed that distributor body with one from a mode t (in French t and b do sound alot alike so maybe I heard that wrong).
And he taught the reason was because the spark lever rod wasn't the correct length. That didn't make any sense to me because moving the lever all the way up and all the way down touches the distributor plate perfectly on both edges of the distributor body.

Now keep in mind that he also insist that the model A should be started with spark all the way down and throttle all the way down, hold choke and crank till she starts then let go of choke.
So here's some pic of it.

[jg61hawk]

Danny I meant a picture of the timing pin area....the pin you invert into the "dimple".

Here's is a great link to Timing Covers....more homework for you... POST your picture...

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/timingcovers.htm

READ TO THE END. THE FINAL CONSIDERATIONS ARE EXTREMELY INTERESTING AND MAY BE YOUR ENTIRE PROBLEM...IF IN FACT YOU CAN'T SEEM TO TIME THIS. Again I need others here to tell the difference from a Model B distributor and a Model A distributor. You can probably see the difference in the covers...You brought up some new can of worms (I think) in the news the Frenchman changed something...It can and will all be overcome, it just takes time like we are doing now. Keep working Danny Boy and I'll enjoy reading!

[Rob Doe]

He's not right about the start procedure. As the old judge said to the jury, "The jury will disregard the previous testimony!" LOL

[ETAModel]

Im far from being an expert, but did someone say your coil is a 12V? I have a 6V tractor and I replaced the coil with a 12V coil. She would be hard to start then ran rough until she died. Then we'd start over and the same thing.
I finally removed the 12V coil, dug the old 6V out of the trash, and she runs like a dream.

Just a thought.

[jg61hawk]

I updated my last post.... so if you missed it here's a shot of what I think we all need...and I have no idea how to tell a B distributor from an A distributor but someone here does.

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/timingcovers.htm

[nkaminar]

This might be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu7g3uIG6Zo. It is an overhead valve engine with fuel injection but the principles are the same. When I was learning this 70 years ago I memorized the 4 strokes as: Suck, Squeeze, Pop, Fooey.

This also may be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdWFhdjKJAI
There may be other Youtube videos that are helpful too.

[Rob Doe]

Dan, JG61, the model B engine has a different pattern to the water pump bolts. The A is mounted with 4 bolts and the B engine has 3. A picture of the water pump and its mounting will tell the tale on the B or A engine.

A model B distributor is taller??? It has an automatic spark advance in the bottom of it. The B engine times at 19 degrees advance; thus the timing pin hole is in a slightly different location in the timing gear cover. The cover has a long flat boss that allowed the cover to be used for both A and B engines. (Only one casting served both engines). That last info courtesy of one of Tom Endy's articles. I just read it yesterday!

[1crosscut]

Need to know if that valve is moving or not. If your able to see the valve then pull out the rest of the plugs if you haven't already and have someone crank the engine while you look at it. If it isn't moving then it needs to be freed up.
I would not be comfortable with trying to push it down through the spark plug hole.

If stuck pull the manifolds and valve cover so you can see what is going on.

[katy]

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Originally Posted by Danny Boy

He said he changed that distributor body with one from a mode t (in French t and b do sound a lot alike so maybe I heard that wrong).

I suspect you did hear him wrong.

Model Ts don't have a distributor, they use a low voltage unit called a timer.

There were a flock of aftermarket distributors made for Model Ts, but they wouldn't fit a Model A.

[katy]

Originally Posted by ETAModel

Im far from being an expert, but did someone say your coil is a 12V? I have a 6V tractor and I replaced the coil with a 12V coil. She would be hard to start then ran rough until she died. Then we'd start over and the same thing.
I finally removed the 12V coil, dug the old 6V out of the trash, and she runs like a dream.

Just a thought.

The middle picture in post #51 shows a 6 volt coil.

[Danny Boy]

It's 6v and battery is 6v and positive goes straight to the frame.

I've include the up skirt pic you guys want so badly. Lol
Timing pin is in all the way, it's been grinded into a point and easily falls in place.

I just pushed her for a few rotations and that valve is moving but not going down all the way and neither is #2. Not as bad as #1. #3 almost feels flush and 4 I'm not sure about yet.
It's hot as hell today and just successfully installed a new starter on my minivan so I'm taking a break and taping myself on the back 😁. Atleast I got 1 fixed.

[jg61hawk]

When I spoke with the previous owner he mentioned having alot of trouble timing the truck.
He said he changed that distributor body with one from a mode t (in French t and b do sound alot alike so maybe I heard that wrong).

Your timing cover looks to me to be a Model A cover so that is a good thing. The previous owner having perhaps put in a distributor from a Model B is probably not a good thing...I'll defer to others on this....

[1crosscut]

Thinking a bit out of the box here if you don't have access to a compression tester.

Bring it to top dead center on the compression stroke.
Use some Play Doe, a moist rag or such to make a seal around a tube or hose going into the #1 spark plug hole. Blow air into the cylinder with your mouth to see if air passes easily. If it does then you probably have valve troubles.

[nkaminar]

An easy way to test compression is with the hand crank. If it pulls easy on any of the cylinders then the compression is low on that cylinder.

[Danny Boy]

Anyone know where I can buy/order a timing Wrench.
The nu hex website doesn't ship to Canada. And every Canadian site is out of stock for them.

I just found a deep 1 3/8 socket I think will work, I might have to make a handle but I'm getting tired of pushing her around.

1crosscut good idea, gonna use a hose like you suggested

[1931 flamingo]

"I just pushed her for a few rotations and that valve is moving but not going down all the way and neither is #2. Not as bad as #1. #3 almost feels flush and 4 I'm not sure about yet."


Try spraying some Liquid Wrench, Kroil, or Brake Cleaner thru the spark plug holes on the exposed part of the valve and guide.
Paul in CT FWIW

[jg61hawk]

any updates?

[Danny Boy]

Ok I'm back. Sorry life got in the way so I haven't done much on the truck. I did add marvel mistery oil a few times and cranked the starter a few rotations to spread it around.
It really helped because when I checked today I had movement in my valves, sticking a bit but alot better.

So today I opened the valve cover and added alot more marvel oil.
I went shopping and bought myself a 6v light circuit tester and a 1 3/8 box wrench. I cut the wrench and welded it back with 2 90degree bends so no more pushing the truck for me ��.

I took a good look at the timing with the light tester and I understand what you guys been saying about the timing and yes I had it wrong.

I let the oil soak all day while I made my wrench and messed around with the timing.
Then I blew some air through the spark plug with help of my compressor and added a little more oil and blew some more air and with my trusty new wrench spun that engine.
Valves where opening and closing nicely so I reassembled everything.

Now here's where it gets weird.
I noticed 2 things that made my brain go WTF ???

#1- setting the timing pin.
I've seen pictures or the dimple and my timing pin has been sharpened. It's very easy to see the pin fall into the dimple but i can keep rotating with the wrench and the pin doesn't t pop back out until I'm past the #2 piston pin in the distributor body.
So the timing pin drops in but I can rotate until the distributor rotor goes past the #2 pin, then it slowly comes out and it keeps moving out until I pass the next pin (I think it's #4 piston, firing order is 1, 2, 4, 3 I believe).
Then it starts moving inwards past that #4 pin and keeps moving inwards the whole time as it passes by the #3 piston pin and then falls flush as it reaches the #1 pin again.
Same thing happens if I apply pressure on the pin and I cant feel the dimple in the gear, the pin just falls flush.
So is it possible that gear is at a angle? And is that something I should be worried about?
So the pin sticks out about 3/8" at maximum and goes in slowly as I turn until it hits the pins shoulder, I can't feel the dimple.
Tomorrow I'll find something the right diameter and sharpen it to make a longer pin and see if I can't find that dimple.

#2 this guy https://youtu.be/mwirH7f0a9o
This video shows how I was trying to set my timing with the light tester.
It's a great way to do it if you can't get a nu hex timing wrench.
It works perfectly If I hook up the tester ground to a engine bolt and the other tester tip on the points moving arm.
It gets weird when I use a engine bolt as ground and hook up the other one to the coil instead of the points moving arm (like he does in the video). When I do it that way my light is always on? Light only goes off when I turn the key to off.
I tried flipping the coil around and get the same result (as mentioned before I wired that coil exactly like the old coil, + is on passenger side - on driver side).
I've tried both way and get same result, light is always on as the points open and close.

After assembling I tried starting her up and got a big 0.
Good news is I think my sticky valve problem is fixed, I'm not getting any gas blowing out the wrong way anymore.
But my guess is timing is completely off because the pin is simply stopping at the bolt shoulder before actually hitting the dimple.

[1955cj5]

I think it's time you took the side timing gear cover off so you can take a look at the condition of your cam gear.

Here is a picture for reference.

Don't forget the bolt that comes through the pan flange on the bottom....

.

[Danny Boy]

Mine is different, my oil filter connects there.

Mind you I'm typing this from my bed and will confirm tomorrow morning.

[nkaminar]

Check your camshaft gear as 1955cj5 recommended.

Points should OPEN when #1 piston is at TDC. You can look in the spark plug hole to know when #1 piston is at TDC and don't need to use the timing pin. But make sure it is TDC for the power stroke not the intake stroke.

Check the points gap before you time the car. Should be 0.018 or very close to that. Check the gap with the points at the most open position.

If the light is always on the points are not conducting. Clean with point file or 400 grit wet and dry sandpaper and make sure they are closing. If the gap is not correct they may not be closing. Or change to a new set of points.

The Nu Rex wrench is handy but verify by checking to make sure that the points are just opening at TDC (with ignition retarded).

[Danny Boy]

Here's a pic, ya my oil filter attaches there.
My gap is good I have already checked, I also gapped my sparks to. 035 yesterday while I was at it.

Points are conducting fine, and my testing light goes on and off just like it should at the correct rotor position as points close and open.
The light is always on when I do the same test but at the coil instead of the points.

[Danny Boy]

Bough a steel 5/16 rod this morning a made a new timing pin.

Found my dimple its 180 degrees off where I thought it was.

My timing wheel is at angle, that has me confused.
I have a few things to do this morning so I'll get back to it this afternoon.

Should I open it up to take a look at the timing wheel or should I just set my timing and try to start it?

[Danny Boy]

Ok so I found my dimple, it's exactly at 180 of where I original though it was. I confirmed it by looking through the spark plug.
If it wasn't for the wrench I would of never seen it trying by pushing it.

The timing gear is definitely at a angle, highest spot is at the dimple and lowest is at 180 degree so basicly when piston #4 is at tdc.

So I just set the timing and she started and then quickly died. Gave a couple turns of the fuel enrichment and she started up again and died again.

But I'm worried about that timing gear and trying to get her started without knowing what's going has got me nervous.

I think I should take a look at that gear before trying to start it again.

[Osage Orange]

Your timing gear shouldn't wobble or be eccentric. Something's going on there, and I suspect it is misaligned on the shaft. You may just have to remove the pulley and the front cover, get in there and find out why the timing gear is at an angle and fix that.
Now, if it started up and then died, not once but twice, I'd start at the fuel bulb and petcock and work my way toward the carburetor, making sure there isn't something intermittently clogging the line or the mesh strainer, then pull the carburetor, check the float level and all orifices and needle valves, blow them out with brake cleaner, carb cleaner and high-pressure air.

[nkaminar]

Yea, progress. Getting it started is great. Now on to the fuel issue.

If your light is always on at the coil then that may be the side that is connected to the battery. The opposite side should be connected to the points when the ignition is on. So it seems that it is nothing to worry about.

Yes, you should be worried about the gear wobbling. The hub could be coming loose from the gear, a common failure. Or someone may have installed it 180 degrees out. There are two pins and they are not 180 degrees opposed so the gear can be installed in only one way. If someone installed the gear wrong one of the pins could be holding part of the gear out. In any case it is something to examine and fix. It looks like the plate that your oil filter is attached to can just come off like a normal plate.

[Bob C]

If you have one of the timing gears as mentioned above the hub can come
loose from the gear.

[Danny Boy]

Well there's your problem.
Hard to see because my picture stuck.
Partial broken teeth on first pic.
I turned into the wobble on second and can see the hub teeth sticking out the side.

I'm off in search of a new timing wheel.
BTW that part holding the filter is aluminium.

[Danny Boy]

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Did some research so I can see that gear is fiber and it's coming apart, missing chunks actually.

So should I go fiber again or aluminium?
Can anybody recommend a reputable dealer I can buy from in Canada or that ships to Canada.

And can someone please tell me If I can remove that front cover without removing the radiator.


I hope I can drive it atleast once or twice before putting her away for the winter.

[katy]

Can anybody recommend a reputable dealer I can buy from in Canada

Goerge Moir in Stony Plain, Alberta or The Old Car Centre in Langley, BC

There should be some suppliers in Eastern Canada

[Danny Boy]

Originally Posted by katy

Goerge Moir in Stony Plain, Alberta or The Old Car Centre in Langley, BC

There should be some suppliers in Eastern Canada

Tried emailing from 2 different emails and got a "delivery deamon" failure.

[Bob C]

Try these. https://georgemoir.ca/
http://www.oldcarcentre.com/

[nkaminar]

The fiber gear was used because it is quiet. However the aluminum gear is stronger and will last a lot longer, although it will make a little bit of a noise.

You can remove the front cover without removing the radiator but removing the radiator makes the whole job a lot easier. You can prop up the hood if you don't want to remove it but it is easier if you do remove the hood. Some people will haul up the hood with a block and tackle and a hook on the ceiling. Clean out any loose gear parts as best you can and consider an oil change. Some people will recommend that you remove the pan to get out any remaining pieces.

[Danny Boy]

Got my parts, really fast and great service.
Twiss car parts .ca
I went with aluminum for the gear.
Got a fuel valve and filter to fix my current leaky valve.

My fuel line looks a little wanky so I'm thinking of changing it too.
Is there any reason I shouldn't replace with copper?
I ask because I already work with copper and already have everything I need.
If not then whats best, stainless?

[1crosscut]

Don't use copper. Get one of the pre made steel lines from the vendors.

[1955cj5]

My ccpu had a copper line for many years. Copper will work harden and possibly crack so it's not the best choice.

I think the vendors sell pre bent steel pipe for this.

Copper will do until your next order though....

[Danny Boy]

So I tried putting a rag between the gear to prevent it from turning. But soon realized there was nothing holding it together.

Now how to I prevent that gear from turning?

[1955cj5]

Did you get the special tool for that nut on the cam?

https://www.brattons.com/STOCK-CAMSH...ductinfo/8790/

You may need an impact wrench to loosen it using that nut tool.

That radiator may need to come out to give enough clearance......

.

[Bob C]

Can you get a pipe wrench in there to hold the timing gear hub?

[Danny Boy]

I can get a big pipe wrench on the hub. But then I can't get a good grip on bolt from the side.
I think I might need to remove radiator so I can use a impact from the front.
Crap

[1955cj5]

Maybe you could hold it with an oil filter wrench?

[nkaminar]

Danny,

I just changed to rope seal in the front of my car. Removing the radiator made the job a lot easier. I had to remove the pan for another reason anyway so the seal was a natural thing to do. I thought I was going to have to remove the cam gear so I removed the nut. I used the adapter available from the supply houses and a socket wrench with a breaker bar and a cheater pipe on the breaker bar. When I put the nut back on I used the same setup. I put some thread locking compound on the face of the nut as a safety measure. I put a new camshaft thrust plunger and spring in.

I did not have the same issue you have but have an aluminum gear. I put the car in high (third gear) and put the emergency brake on so that the crankshaft, and thus the cam gear, could not turn.

[katy]

Try a punch and hammer. Maybe get a friend to hold the hub w/a large water pump pliers,

[jg61hawk]

So what's the update?

[GT1929]

Hello, Got a lot of parts from Synders Auto Snyders - Home page (snydersantiqueauto.com) they send worldwide. I have an AA its an idea to put the upper streering column mount on to take the strain when getting in or out and disconnect the lower one on gas tank helps prevent tank cracking.
Cheers

[Big hammer]

Originally Posted by 1955cj5

Maybe you could hold it with an oil filter wrench?

A strap wrench would work more better!

[katy]

Originally Posted by Big hammer

A strap wrench would work more better!

"more better" one of my favorite terms, my mom used to scold me for saying that.

[1955cj5]

Originally Posted by Big hammer

A strap wrench would work more better!

It'll be interesting to see what he used and how it worked out.

I suppose it's really a plier, but this is what I had in mind....