The Ford Barn

Britcheflee · 10-14-2017, 11:05 AM

So,
Thanks to your useful information - I removed solenoid and right away there was something not right - it just dropped right off the car - no twisting required to get it off - I bench tested and cleaned it up and it works great - when trying to replace it i noticed that the flat sides of the tip of the plunger align with the slot in the pawl - so when lined up to install bolts it would just pull right out with no connection. I used a allen key with the ball type tip to get in there and secure the pawl (I think) it did move a little but hardly anything - could not get the solenoid to secure to the pawl. Eventually tweaked the plunger so it would engage in the pawl or something inside - bolted it all up - tested (works fine) and went for a drive - no overdrive. So....unless there is something else I can do to tell if that pawl is moving I think that there is something amiss inside.
I have a feeling that previous owner had a similar problem thinking there was something wrong with solenoid as there is clear evidence that someone took a hammer or something and whacked the side of it a few times thinking that was what was not working - now I am thinking of removing the transmission but not sure how big a job that is. Any thoughts at this stage?

krackerjack1951 · 10-14-2017, 11:17 AM

Bench test it first...did u rotate the solenoid 1/4 of a turn ..line up the bolt holes..try to with draw,,if you cant,,it is in correct position.bolt it up,,it should work unless the pawl is broken

rotorwrench · 10-14-2017, 11:36 AM

There were only three types of operating solenoids made by Borg Warner. The difference was in the length of the shaft protruding out. The standard is 1-inch long. The 1.5" ones were for the convertibles & some station wagons that had a special adapter to relocate the unit for the X type frame cross member. The 2-inch types were for some other special application that I have no information about and was likely not for Ford products. There may be a problem with the pawl inside the transmission. They can break but luckily it's not a common occurrence. You should be able to see the slot in the pawl when the solenoid is removed. If the slot is damaged then the operating rod won't be able to with draw the pawl.

I'm not sure if a person can change the position of the solenoid operating rod or not but if it can be installed out of place then some one will do it while tinkering under the shade tree with no manual to see how it's supposed to go. I'll have to check one of my solenoids when I get out to the shop to see if that is a possibility.

Britcheflee · 10-14-2017, 11:39 AM

Bench tested worked great - took apart, cleaned both points put back together tested again great. When I went to install and on removal it came right off without having to turn at all - I rotated the plunger a bit at it appears to now attach when rotated as you describe - I have this bad feeling the pawl is not working/broken

Britcheflee · 10-14-2017, 11:42 AM

Well..... I was able to gently twist mine (my friend said give it a go as he has a couple back up ones - if you have one with the pin in the right position would like a pic to compare to ensure mine is in correct alignment to go into the pawl, turn and be secured.
Its easy to get off so when I have time I am going to get car up on chocks again, take it off and take a picture inside hole see if there is anything you guys can spot which is wrong.

Britcheflee · 10-14-2017, 11:43 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

There were only three types of operating solenoids made by Borg Warner. The difference was in the length of the shaft protruding out. The standard is 1-inch long. The 1.5" ones were for the convertibles & some station wagons that had a special adapter to relocate the unit for the X type frame cross member. The 2-inch types were for some other special application that I have no information about and was likely not for Ford products. There may be a problem with the pawl inside the transmission. They can break but luckily it's not a common occurrence. You should be able to see the slot in the pawl when the solenoid is removed. If the slot is damaged then the operating rod won't be able to with draw the pawl.

I'm not sure if a person can change the position of the solenoid operating rod or not but if it can be installed out of place then some one will do it while tinkering under the shade tree with no manual to see how it's supposed to go. I'll have to check one of my solenoids when I get out to the shop to see if that is a possibility.

Thank you, I will measure mine when i next remove it - i did make a note of the delco remy number on it so will check that out too.

donald1950 · 10-14-2017, 04:01 PM

best way to install a solenoid is to wire it hot and energized when installing it so you can feel the plunger enter and lock into the pawl. once you can feel that it is locked into the pawl, de-energize it and bolt it down. the pawl probably is not broken but it can go in just far enough to be difficult to lock into without the solenoid plunger being extended.....

Charlie ny · 10-14-2017, 05:59 PM

AMEN to what Donald says !
Charlie ny

Mike51Merc · 10-15-2017, 08:09 AM

Donald has a good idea.
You could also make a small hook out of a coat hanger and pull the pawl down before inserting the solenoid.

10-14-2017, 11:05 AM	#1
Britcheflee Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 26	53 merc borg warner overdrive update So, Thanks to your useful information - I removed solenoid and right away there was something not right - it just dropped right off the car - no twisting required to get it off - I bench tested and cleaned it up and it works great - when trying to replace it i noticed that the flat sides of the tip of the plunger align with the slot in the pawl - so when lined up to install bolts it would just pull right out with no connection. I used a allen key with the ball type tip to get in there and secure the pawl (I think) it did move a little but hardly anything - could not get the solenoid to secure to the pawl. Eventually tweaked the plunger so it would engage in the pawl or something inside - bolted it all up - tested (works fine) and went for a drive - no overdrive. So....unless there is something else I can do to tell if that pawl is moving I think that there is something amiss inside. I have a feeling that previous owner had a similar problem thinking there was something wrong with solenoid as there is clear evidence that someone took a hammer or something and whacked the side of it a few times thinking that was what was not working - now I am thinking of removing the transmission but not sure how big a job that is. Any thoughts at this stage?

10-14-2017, 11:17 AM	#2
krackerjack1951 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NC Posts: 521	Re: 53 merc borg warner overdrive update Bench test it first...did u rotate the solenoid 1/4 of a turn ..line up the bolt holes..try to with draw,,if you cant,,it is in correct position.bolt it up,,it should work unless the pawl is broken

10-14-2017, 11:36 AM	#3
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: 53 merc borg warner overdrive update There were only three types of operating solenoids made by Borg Warner. The difference was in the length of the shaft protruding out. The standard is 1-inch long. The 1.5" ones were for the convertibles & some station wagons that had a special adapter to relocate the unit for the X type frame cross member. The 2-inch types were for some other special application that I have no information about and was likely not for Ford products. There may be a problem with the pawl inside the transmission. They can break but luckily it's not a common occurrence. You should be able to see the slot in the pawl when the solenoid is removed. If the slot is damaged then the operating rod won't be able to with draw the pawl. I'm not sure if a person can change the position of the solenoid operating rod or not but if it can be installed out of place then some one will do it while tinkering under the shade tree with no manual to see how it's supposed to go. I'll have to check one of my solenoids when I get out to the shop to see if that is a possibility.

10-14-2017, 11:39 AM	#4
Britcheflee Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 26	Re: 53 merc borg warner overdrive update Bench tested worked great - took apart, cleaned both points put back together tested again great. When I went to install and on removal it came right off without having to turn at all - I rotated the plunger a bit at it appears to now attach when rotated as you describe - I have this bad feeling the pawl is not working/broken

10-14-2017, 11:42 AM	#5
Britcheflee Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 26	Re: 53 merc borg warner overdrive update Well..... I was able to gently twist mine (my friend said give it a go as he has a couple back up ones - if you have one with the pin in the right position would like a pic to compare to ensure mine is in correct alignment to go into the pawl, turn and be secured. Its easy to get off so when I have time I am going to get car up on chocks again, take it off and take a picture inside hole see if there is anything you guys can spot which is wrong.

10-14-2017, 04:01 PM	#7
donald1950 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: san antonio, texas Posts: 461	Re: 53 merc borg warner overdrive update best way to install a solenoid is to wire it hot and energized when installing it so you can feel the plunger enter and lock into the pawl. once you can feel that it is locked into the pawl, de-energize it and bolt it down. the pawl probably is not broken but it can go in just far enough to be difficult to lock into without the solenoid plunger being extended.....

10-14-2017, 05:59 PM	#8
Charlie ny BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,019	Re: 53 merc borg warner overdrive update AMEN to what Donald says ! Charlie ny

10-15-2017, 08:09 AM	#9
Mike51Merc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,582	Re: 53 merc borg warner overdrive update Donald has a good idea. You could also make a small hook out of a coat hanger and pull the pawl down before inserting the solenoid.