The Ford Barn

4tford · 12-12-2011, 10:56 AM

I changed the syncro setup as well as the idler gear. I can turn the trans by hand but it is quite tight. Also seems to have a spot tighter than the rest. Any ideas why so tight. How tight is to tight??? Thanks Bill

Mac VP · 12-12-2011, 11:58 AM

What is your clearance behind second gear (measured with a feeler gauge between the back of the gear and the beginning of the spiral splines)? Should be no less than .004".

Try dropping the cluster gear again. Does the mainshaft assy rotate ok? Sometimes you get some drag from the front oil seal if it's not pressed in all the way.

Sometimes, there simply isn't anything real apparent and the only explanation is the combination of minor flaws in the gear cutting that add to dimensions here and there. Was this an existing gearset that rolled fine before your rebuild?

alanwoodieman · 12-12-2011, 12:15 PM

did you put heavy grease on the needle bearings? this can cause a drag on a new build

4tford · 12-12-2011, 12:32 PM

Mac, the gap is .009, no marks on the seal and the only bearing replaced was the idler. Case was replaced due to some wear and a small crack.

alanwoodieman I used assembly lube. May well be part of the problem.

Terry,OH · 12-12-2011, 03:20 PM

4tford: What is an idler bearing? Are you talking about the reverse idler gear? I also suggest pulling the pin on the cluster and dropping it down to disengaging it and see if the drag has been reduced. something is not right, the drag should not change as you rotate the input shaft. Any of the front bearing retainer or the rear motor mount bolts too long and hitting the front or the rear oil slingers?

Mac VP · 12-12-2011, 03:50 PM

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Good suggestion Terry.....I've seen trannies come in with TOO long bolts that dragged on the front and rear oil baffles.

Charlie ny · 12-12-2011, 04:36 PM

4t,
All good ideas but I'll bet your problem in fact relates to the
syncro rings you are using. 2 things you must be careful of:
The 3 notches in each ring that accept the
keys must measure .303 + or - .003 when measured
from the bottom of the notch to toothed face
and
when installed on either 2nd gear or the main drive
gear the ring must have no more of gap between it
and the syncro teeth on the gear than the thickness
of a dime.....max.

Please do not hesitate to call me regarding this.....off site I'd
really like to know where the syncro setup came from. I've worked pretty
hard to purge these rings from circulation.
Charlie ny
716 662 9159
[email protected]

Hoop · 12-12-2011, 05:55 PM

I'm way out of my league with Mac and Charlie already in here, but, in my own experience (or, lack of experience) the time I ran into a really tight set up ... it was caused by the rear gasket not fitting properly. I'd loosen the rear bearing retainer a little and see if that loosens things up, then work forward from there, If any gasket material (or wrong gasket material) gets caught in the wrong place, it'll tighten things up.

4tford · 12-19-2011, 04:22 PM

Finally got the transmission to the point where it is still a little snug but turns rather smooth. When I took the shaft out of the cluster gear I found it had about a 1/16" bend in it. I also replaced one of the new syncro rings with another as well as the idler gear (not bearing). I also believe a lot of the tightness was due to the assembly lube I initially used instead of oil. Thanks for all the ideas and comments. Merry Christmas to you all. Bill

Barn Junk · 12-20-2011, 01:09 PM

I had one hang up when assemble was complete. Turned out the replacement snap ring holding the syncro hub on the main shaft was a little bigger than original and interferred with the main drive at assembly. A little grinding cured the problem. Had me going for a while.

12-12-2011, 10:56 AM	#1
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Transmission, how tight is to tight?? I changed the syncro setup as well as the idler gear. I can turn the trans by hand but it is quite tight. Also seems to have a spot tighter than the rest. Any ideas why so tight. How tight is to tight??? Thanks Bill

12-12-2011, 11:58 AM	#2
Mac VP Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,361	Re: Transmission, how tight is to tight?? What is your clearance behind second gear (measured with a feeler gauge between the back of the gear and the beginning of the spiral splines)? Should be no less than .004". Try dropping the cluster gear again. Does the mainshaft assy rotate ok? Sometimes you get some drag from the front oil seal if it's not pressed in all the way. Sometimes, there simply isn't anything real apparent and the only explanation is the combination of minor flaws in the gear cutting that add to dimensions here and there. Was this an existing gearset that rolled fine before your rebuild? __________________ VANPELT SALES LLC Cincinnati, Ohio Office: 513-724-9486 www.vanpeltsales.com www.classictransmission.com

12-12-2011, 12:15 PM	#3
alanwoodieman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: upstate SC Posts: 2,965	Re: Transmission, how tight is to tight?? did you put heavy grease on the needle bearings? this can cause a drag on a new build

12-12-2011, 12:32 PM	#4
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Re: Transmission, how tight is to tight?? Mac, the gap is .009, no marks on the seal and the only bearing replaced was the idler. Case was replaced due to some wear and a small crack. alanwoodieman I used assembly lube. May well be part of the problem.

12-12-2011, 03:20 PM	#5
Terry,OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,751	Re: Transmission, how tight is to tight?? 4tford: What is an idler bearing? Are you talking about the reverse idler gear? I also suggest pulling the pin on the cluster and dropping it down to disengaging it and see if the drag has been reduced. something is not right, the drag should not change as you rotate the input shaft. Any of the front bearing retainer or the rear motor mount bolts too long and hitting the front or the rear oil slingers?

12-12-2011, 03:50 PM	#6
Mac VP Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,361	Re: Transmission, how tight is to tight?? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Good suggestion Terry.....I've seen trannies come in with TOO long bolts that dragged on the front and rear oil baffles. __________________ VANPELT SALES LLC Cincinnati, Ohio Office: 513-724-9486 www.vanpeltsales.com www.classictransmission.com

12-12-2011, 04:36 PM	#7
Charlie ny BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,019	Re: Transmission, how tight is to tight?? 4t, All good ideas but I'll bet your problem in fact relates to the syncro rings you are using. 2 things you must be careful of: The 3 notches in each ring that accept the keys must measure .303 + or - .003 when measured from the bottom of the notch to toothed face and when installed on either 2nd gear or the main drive gear the ring must have no more of gap between it and the syncro teeth on the gear than the thickness of a dime.....max. Please do not hesitate to call me regarding this.....off site I'd really like to know where the syncro setup came from. I've worked pretty hard to purge these rings from circulation. Charlie ny 716 662 9159 [email protected]

12-12-2011, 05:55 PM	#8
Hoop Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 1,137	Re: Transmission, how tight is to tight?? I'm way out of my league with Mac and Charlie already in here, but, in my own experience (or, lack of experience) the time I ran into a really tight set up ... it was caused by the rear gasket not fitting properly. I'd loosen the rear bearing retainer a little and see if that loosens things up, then work forward from there, If any gasket material (or wrong gasket material) gets caught in the wrong place, it'll tighten things up. __________________ "Remember that when it comes to intelligence, half of all of us are below average."

12-19-2011, 04:22 PM	#9
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Re: Transmission, how tight is to tight?? Finally got the transmission to the point where it is still a little snug but turns rather smooth. When I took the shaft out of the cluster gear I found it had about a 1/16" bend in it. I also replaced one of the new syncro rings with another as well as the idler gear (not bearing). I also believe a lot of the tightness was due to the assembly lube I initially used instead of oil. Thanks for all the ideas and comments. Merry Christmas to you all. Bill

12-20-2011, 01:09 PM	#10
Barn Junk Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: WA state Posts: 771	Re: Transmission, how tight is to tight?? I had one hang up when assemble was complete. Turned out the replacement snap ring holding the syncro hub on the main shaft was a little bigger than original and interferred with the main drive at assembly. A little grinding cured the problem. Had me going for a while.