The Ford Barn

Lawrie · 02-15-2012, 02:27 AM

After freshening up the eng in my A,puting new rings ,checking rod clearances and fitting new main inserts,plus a 5.5 head.
Took it for a drive today,I was happy with the way it ran except for the new alluminuim timing gear that was a bit noisy,but I did not replace the crank gear so thats my fault.
But there was water leaking out around the front exhaust manifold,thinking it was a leaking stud I took the manifold off and saw two or three pin holes with the water squirting into the port.
Dam,
I have a few spare blocks and are thinking that the best fix is to transfer all the parts into the other block,get it bored to fit the pistons and line bore it as I have the main inserts.
My question is ,I know this is the best fix ,but is there some way to fix the leaks in the port that will be a good fix, or am I wasting my time and just go with the other block.
Thanks Lawrie

James Rogers · 02-15-2012, 06:00 AM

I don't know about down under but, over here we have a product called "Bars Leaks" that will work to stop a small leak. You could have the holes pinned if they are accessible from the port.

Tom Wesenberg · 02-15-2012, 08:21 AM

Did someone grind out the ports, or is this from rust in the cooling side?
Or, is it just a porous casting?

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 02-15-2012, 08:42 AM

Adding to what James said, look for a product called Sodium Silicate. It may first require you operating the engine with some flushing cleanser to allow for a better bond but after you have had a chance for any type of block sealer to set-up, you should be good to go with no adverse affects.

.

ford1 · 02-15-2012, 10:14 AM

Brent is right on the sodium silicate, that stuff works, its also called water glass, it comes with fine copper particals to help seal larger cracks and holes, most auto parts stores carry it, BUT,read and follow the directions exactly as writen, heat and air make it work, ive sealed a dozen flathead v/8's with cracked blocks with it and it works

FlatheadTed · 02-15-2012, 03:55 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Laurie on the other side of the lake we use a product called Chemy weld ,I have personal used this in several engines including a Chevy 6 truck that was dumping all the radiator water out the exhausted . This truck was completely cured and used by us for some time .This product sounds the same as liquid glass .

Lawrie · 02-15-2012, 04:37 PM

The holes are in side the exhaust port ,on the horizontal,about 3/4" in ,on the no one cyl and on the rear of the port.
I have heard of barrs leaks and chemi weld.
I,m not sure of the permanent fix using these.
I have a four week window to fix it as we are booked to travel away in the A in late march and sure dont want it to play up while away.
Thanks Lawrie

SAJ · 02-15-2012, 05:36 PM

Lawrie, Chemiweld was a product I manufactured in the '70's and 80's. In New Zealand it was a GUD product, later sold to Holt LLoyd who bought the company. I ran Holt lloyd for a number of years before setting up my own business. It contains water glass (sodium silicate), red iron oxide and fibrous leak stoppers. The water glass is, in fact, solubilized glass and will turn back into a glass when it meets the air and dries. It is then a permanent repair. You may need to relieve the pressure near the leak by removing that spark plug and running the engine until the leak stops. This is in the case where combustion gases are pressurising the leak. The effectiveness depends on the ability of the fibrous products in Chemiweld to slow (plug-up) the leak enough for the silicate to dry before it is washed out again. So Something held against the leak will help if you can do this while heating the engine. One can sometimes even heat the area externally, (say with an electric heat gun, maybe - I've never tried this) to speed the cure.
In Australia GUD chemicals still exists I think. It may now be under "Goss Gaskets" Owned by RYCO. I also manufactured GUD felt filters in NZ, as well as gaskets many years ago.
Hope this helps.
SAJ in NZ

James Rogers · 02-15-2012, 05:57 PM

I agree with SAJ and Brent, sodium silicate is good stuff. It is the main active sealer in almost all block sealers and IT WORKS! I have seen leaks sealed with Bars Leaks stay sealed for years. Use it like SAJ recommends and don't worry. Once you put it in , let it run for a while and shut it off. Let it have a little time to cool and the sodium silicate to dry and run it again till it is not steaming out the pipe and you should be good to go for a long time. I suggest my customers use Bars Leaks at least once a year to circumvent any small leaks from the head gasket into the distributor drive. Sometimes I will add a little sodium silicate to the Bars Leaks just to give it a boost. Sodium silicate is about 25$ for a quart and will do 4 or 5 engines.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 02-15-2012, 06:12 PM

Sodium silicate, commonly called egg preservative or water glass, used to be available in drug stores.
If you have troublesome WARTS, I know a simple, safe, drug store remedy for those also! Dr. Bill W.

Lawrie · 02-15-2012, 06:14 PM

Thanks Guys, my concern is its in the exhaust port,half way between the valve and the edge of the block.
I can see it squirting out into the port,
When I stopped the engine in the shed to investigate it,by the time I got the exh manifold off it was full of water,about 1 litre.
I,m leaning towards replacing the block as I sure don't want a repair to fail 2000klms from home.
I will have a prod around in the port this morning and report back,
Thanks Lawrie

1931 flamingo · 02-15-2012, 06:47 PM

Try the "water glass". What do you have to lose??
Paul in CT

flatford39 · 02-15-2012, 07:06 PM

Years ago I was working for a mechanical contractor and one of our jobs was to install a complete water source heat pump system in a ten story building in the midwest. The water coolant had a 30% glycol mix. Some how we but the wrong pipe dope that wasn't compatible with glycol. I had Fuc#%^&$ leaks everywhere. Glycol leaks that were permanently staining the finished product. Keep in mind this was a ten story building. I bought about 4 gallons of liquid glass and dumped it in. I could here the pumps strain as it passed thru. Long story short...no more leaks. Keep in mind I had 25HP pumps and was maintaining 30 to 40 PSI.

I would certainly try it in your A before tearing the hole thing down. The stuff does work.

FlatheadTed · 02-15-2012, 07:22 PM

Bars Leaks I would only use on a radiator leak .Chemi weld is what engine rebuilders use .You could weld a exhausted port .Pre heat the error around the repairer and use a high

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurie

The holes are in side the exhaust port ,on the horizontal,about 3/4" in ,on the no one cyl and on the rear of the port.
I have heard of Barr's leaks and chemi weld.
I,m not sure of the permanent fix using these.
I have a four week window to fix it as we are booked to travel away in the A in late march and sure don't want it to play up while away.
Thanks Laurie

Pete · 02-15-2012, 10:35 PM

It would be a piece of cake to silver solder from how you describe it.
You wouldn't even have to take the engine out of the car.

dumb person · 02-16-2012, 01:19 AM

That silver solder idea sounds good but if the block is very thin it might make it worse. Have seen chemiweld used to hold a leaking head gasket for 4 years, & seal leaks for over 10 years. i would not have believed it unless i saw it with my own eyes. Try one or the other, or both. It should last for long enough to get you home & maybe for many years later.

No warranty is implied with this recommendation.

Pete in Michigan · 02-16-2012, 08:50 AM

I had a '89 Cadillac that had a leaking head gasket, dealer said $1800 to replace head gaskets. Said I'd wait and check it out more. At home looking at the engine, I noticed a caution sticker on the radiator support that said {a sealent must be added to radiator when changing antifreeze.}
I called my friend at a local parts store and asked what sealent was to be used. I had a GM part # so he checked on it. When he called back, said he had called Bars Leak Headquarters about 20 miles from us and found out 70% of new cars (in 1993) have Bars Leak sealent in them from the factory. I added this and put another 100,000 miles on it before I sold it.
Since then I always add this to all my cars when changing antifreeze.

NOTE: This is not the old Bars Leak with the pellets that we grew up with, this is just a liquid.

reek29 · 02-16-2012, 09:34 AM

I know that most block repair/sealers suggest that the engine be run without the offending cylinder spark plug installed. Can anyone tell me how you can find out which cylinder (or where) the block is cracked? I have bubbles in the radiator when the engine is warm and have replaced the head gasket with no improvement. The block and the head are flat and no cracks are visible.

Tom Wesenberg · 02-16-2012, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reek29

I know that most block repair/sealers suggest that the engine be run without the offending cylinder spark plug installed. Can anyone tell me how you can find out which cylinder (or where) the block is cracked? I have bubbles in the radiator when the engine is warm and have replaced the head gasket with no improvement. The block and the head are flat and no cracks are visible.

If you run with a spark plug removed be sure to ground that terminal post on the distributor, or the distributor or coil could develope shorts.

Bruce Lancaster · 02-16-2012, 11:59 AM

The Sodium Silicate is pretty available through automotive sources, but in my experience is never labled under that name. Ony brand I can remember fairly exactly is Moroso, product is called something like "ceramic seal." Moroso is a speed shop brand, and this is marketed for people with insanely ported drag race engines...
In a regular parts store, ask them to show you liquid types of radator sealer, go for the bigger cans and read the labels...it's there under some name!

02-15-2012, 02:27 AM	#1
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,216	water leak in exh port After freshening up the eng in my A,puting new rings ,checking rod clearances and fitting new main inserts,plus a 5.5 head. Took it for a drive today,I was happy with the way it ran except for the new alluminuim timing gear that was a bit noisy,but I did not replace the crank gear so thats my fault. But there was water leaking out around the front exhaust manifold,thinking it was a leaking stud I took the manifold off and saw two or three pin holes with the water squirting into the port. Dam, I have a few spare blocks and are thinking that the best fix is to transfer all the parts into the other block,get it bored to fit the pistons and line bore it as I have the main inserts. My question is ,I know this is the best fix ,but is there some way to fix the leaks in the port that will be a good fix, or am I wasting my time and just go with the other block. Thanks Lawrie

02-15-2012, 06:00 AM	#2
James Rogers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Asheville,NC Posts: 3,104	Re: water leak in exh port I don't know about down under but, over here we have a product called "Bars Leaks" that will work to stop a small leak. You could have the holes pinned if they are accessible from the port.

02-15-2012, 08:21 AM	#3
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: water leak in exh port Did someone grind out the ports, or is this from rust in the cooling side? Or, is it just a porous casting?

02-15-2012, 08:42 AM	#4
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,516	Re: water leak in exh port Adding to what James said, look for a product called Sodium Silicate. It may first require you operating the engine with some flushing cleanser to allow for a better bond but after you have had a chance for any type of block sealer to set-up, you should be good to go with no adverse affects. . __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

02-15-2012, 10:14 AM	#5
ford1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: oroville ca. Posts: 1,554	Re: water leak in exh port Brent is right on the sodium silicate, that stuff works, its also called water glass, it comes with fine copper particals to help seal larger cracks and holes, most auto parts stores carry it, BUT,read and follow the directions exactly as writen, heat and air make it work, ive sealed a dozen flathead v/8's with cracked blocks with it and it works

02-15-2012, 03:55 PM	#6
FlatheadTed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland Posts: 4,705	Re: water leak in exh port Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Laurie on the other side of the lake we use a product called Chemy weld ,I have personal used this in several engines including a Chevy 6 truck that was dumping all the radiator water out the exhausted . This truck was completely cured and used by us for some time .This product sounds the same as liquid glass . __________________ http://www.flatheadted.com Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,

02-15-2012, 04:37 PM	#7
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,216	Re: water leak in exh port The holes are in side the exhaust port ,on the horizontal,about 3/4" in ,on the no one cyl and on the rear of the port. I have heard of barrs leaks and chemi weld. I,m not sure of the permanent fix using these. I have a four week window to fix it as we are booked to travel away in the A in late march and sure dont want it to play up while away. Thanks Lawrie

02-15-2012, 05:36 PM	#8
SAJ Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 515	Re: water leak in exh port Lawrie, Chemiweld was a product I manufactured in the '70's and 80's. In New Zealand it was a GUD product, later sold to Holt LLoyd who bought the company. I ran Holt lloyd for a number of years before setting up my own business. It contains water glass (sodium silicate), red iron oxide and fibrous leak stoppers. The water glass is, in fact, solubilized glass and will turn back into a glass when it meets the air and dries. It is then a permanent repair. You may need to relieve the pressure near the leak by removing that spark plug and running the engine until the leak stops. This is in the case where combustion gases are pressurising the leak. The effectiveness depends on the ability of the fibrous products in Chemiweld to slow (plug-up) the leak enough for the silicate to dry before it is washed out again. So Something held against the leak will help if you can do this while heating the engine. One can sometimes even heat the area externally, (say with an electric heat gun, maybe - I've never tried this) to speed the cure. In Australia GUD chemicals still exists I think. It may now be under "Goss Gaskets" Owned by RYCO. I also manufactured GUD felt filters in NZ, as well as gaskets many years ago. Hope this helps. SAJ in NZ

02-15-2012, 05:57 PM	#9
James Rogers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Asheville,NC Posts: 3,104	Re: water leak in exh port I agree with SAJ and Brent, sodium silicate is good stuff. It is the main active sealer in almost all block sealers and IT WORKS! I have seen leaks sealed with Bars Leaks stay sealed for years. Use it like SAJ recommends and don't worry. Once you put it in , let it run for a while and shut it off. Let it have a little time to cool and the sodium silicate to dry and run it again till it is not steaming out the pipe and you should be good to go for a long time. I suggest my customers use Bars Leaks at least once a year to circumvent any small leaks from the head gasket into the distributor drive. Sometimes I will add a little sodium silicate to the Bars Leaks just to give it a boost. Sodium silicate is about 25$ for a quart and will do 4 or 5 engines.

02-15-2012, 06:12 PM	#10
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: water leak in exh port Sodium silicate, commonly called egg preservative or water glass, used to be available in drug stores. If you have troublesome WARTS, I know a simple, safe, drug store remedy for those also! Dr. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

02-15-2012, 06:14 PM	#11
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,216	Re: water leak in exh port Thanks Guys, my concern is its in the exhaust port,half way between the valve and the edge of the block. I can see it squirting out into the port, When I stopped the engine in the shed to investigate it,by the time I got the exh manifold off it was full of water,about 1 litre. I,m leaning towards replacing the block as I sure don't want a repair to fail 2000klms from home. I will have a prod around in the port this morning and report back, Thanks Lawrie

02-15-2012, 06:47 PM	#12
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: water leak in exh port Try the "water glass". What do you have to lose?? Paul in CT

02-15-2012, 07:06 PM	#13
flatford39 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NE Illinois Posts: 499	Re: water leak in exh port Years ago I was working for a mechanical contractor and one of our jobs was to install a complete water source heat pump system in a ten story building in the midwest. The water coolant had a 30% glycol mix. Some how we but the wrong pipe dope that wasn't compatible with glycol. I had Fuc#%^&$ leaks everywhere. Glycol leaks that were permanently staining the finished product. Keep in mind this was a ten story building. I bought about 4 gallons of liquid glass and dumped it in. I could here the pumps strain as it passed thru. Long story short...no more leaks. Keep in mind I had 25HP pumps and was maintaining 30 to 40 PSI. I would certainly try it in your A before tearing the hole thing down. The stuff does work.

02-15-2012, 10:35 PM	#15
Pete Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,409	Re: water leak in exh port It would be a piece of cake to silver solder from how you describe it. You wouldn't even have to take the engine out of the car.

02-16-2012, 01:19 AM	#16
dumb person Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: South pacific island Posts: 1,724	Re: water leak in exh port That silver solder idea sounds good but if the block is very thin it might make it worse. Have seen chemiweld used to hold a leaking head gasket for 4 years, & seal leaks for over 10 years. i would not have believed it unless i saw it with my own eyes. Try one or the other, or both. It should last for long enough to get you home & maybe for many years later. No warranty is implied with this recommendation.

02-16-2012, 08:50 AM	#17
Pete in Michigan Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Davison, Michigan Posts: 22	Re: water leak in exh port I had a '89 Cadillac that had a leaking head gasket, dealer said $1800 to replace head gaskets. Said I'd wait and check it out more. At home looking at the engine, I noticed a caution sticker on the radiator support that said {a sealent must be added to radiator when changing antifreeze.} I called my friend at a local parts store and asked what sealent was to be used. I had a GM part # so he checked on it. When he called back, said he had called Bars Leak Headquarters about 20 miles from us and found out 70% of new cars (in 1993) have Bars Leak sealent in them from the factory. I added this and put another 100,000 miles on it before I sold it. Since then I always add this to all my cars when changing antifreeze. NOTE: This is not the old Bars Leak with the pellets that we grew up with, this is just a liquid.

02-16-2012, 09:34 AM	#18
reek29 Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 42	Re: water leak in exh port I know that most block repair/sealers suggest that the engine be run without the offending cylinder spark plug installed. Can anyone tell me how you can find out which cylinder (or where) the block is cracked? I have bubbles in the radiator when the engine is warm and have replaced the head gasket with no improvement. The block and the head are flat and no cracks are visible.

02-16-2012, 11:59 AM	#20
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: water leak in exh port The Sodium Silicate is pretty available through automotive sources, but in my experience is never labled under that name. Ony brand I can remember fairly exactly is Moroso, product is called something like "ceramic seal." Moroso is a speed shop brand, and this is marketed for people with insanely ported drag race engines... In a regular parts store, ask them to show you liquid types of radator sealer, go for the bigger cans and read the labels...it's there under some name!