The Ford Barn

oldsman41 · 05-17-2014, 04:20 PM

hi . I have a 51 merc with the 4.27 rear axle. would like to put in a 3.54 ring and pinion. cant seem to find anyone who makes stuff for the old dana 44 rear end can anybody here help? need the ring and pinion and the rebuild kit. any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks

19Fordy · 05-17-2014, 04:30 PM

No one makes an after market 3:54 gear set for the 51 Merc rear. You might consider installing an over drive transmission or install another complete rear. 1971-73 Mustang Ford 9 inch is same width but different bolt pattern. Other rears will also fit, but it's nice to stick with a 9 inch since the gear ratio can be easily changed and brake drums are readily available, unlike the Merc 11 in. drums.. Do a search on this site and HAMB and info will appear. Here's a photo of the 71-73 Mustang rear. Click on photo to enlarge. Here's a chart of various rear end widths.
http://www.carnut.com/specs/rear.html

rotorwrench · 05-17-2014, 05:02 PM

The 3.92 to 1 was the most common axle ratio. They work pretty well with the overdrive transmission installed and should still be relatively easy to find. The Merc-O-Matic cars had an even lower ratio if a person could locate one from a custom builder that has no use for it.

oldsman41 · 05-17-2014, 05:26 PM

yes that is what I was hoping for I think the merc o matic was a 3.54 or so

rotorwrench · 05-17-2014, 05:45 PM

They had two possible ratios. They had 3.54:1 and 3.31:1 ratios available.

ford3 · 05-17-2014, 06:15 PM

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over drives are nice, but the rear ends are easier to work with, no wires to hook up to make the over drive work, and the solenoids for the over drives are almost impossible to find, and if you do find one they are pricey

scooder · 05-18-2014, 04:24 AM

Solenoids are available new in 6 or 12 volt from a number of suppliers including our very own Vanpelt. If I were keeping the Merc standard shift I would go overdrive, deep gears for real good acceleration, and the overdrive for loafing up the freeway. And all the Other benefits of the borg warner overdrive.
Are they hard to find over there? I have two such transmissions here, furthest I traveled for one was 150 miles. And I'm in England.
If your set on changing the axle ratio, your gonna have to change the carrier in the rear end. 1 carrier is for 3.92 and numerically higher, a different carrier is required for 3.73 and numerically lower. This is called the "case break" but as far as I can Work out, you need one for a 19 spline axle like the Merc. They do make one, if you Google Dana 44 19 spline carrier you should find one. Off the top of my head, I think Yukon or such aftermarket axle folk do them. This assumes you have a. Dana 44, should be. But I have pulled a Dana 41 out from under a Merc.
Hope this helps,
Martin.

rotorwrench · 05-18-2014, 12:08 PM

The 44 was in a lot of 4 wheel drive vehicles and they seem to have a following. I've also seen some lower ratio sets of gears from some pickup truck suppliers for the early F-100s. The folks that specialize in those would be worth giving a call to to see what carrier will work with them and the axles. The axles spline change may be as simple as changing the differential side gears but I don't know for sure. Most Mercury cars all used the 19 spline 16 tooth side gears with 10-tooth spider gears whether they were Dana 41 or 44.

scooder · 05-18-2014, 12:40 PM

From what I understand, the spline count does effect the carrier. The carriers have different part numbers. It would be nice if they were the same. Be good to know the actual difference was, I spec it's the diameter of the hole the side gear sits in, and maybe the thrust measurements. The 41 carrier is a completely different beast, the side gears are the same, and the axles and most other stuff. But the crown and pinion and carrier are different.
Martin.

bobH · 05-18-2014, 02:29 PM

I've got a Jeep with a 79 Scout model 44 rear end, and it has 3.54 gears. I have no idea if this info helps, but my point is, there is such a thing as a Dana 44 with 3.54's. This was/is a completely stock (and original) rear end, as pulled from the 79 Scout. It came with a limited-slip (Trac-Loc, I think).
If you happen to have a 41, I'm led to believe there is no hope of finding parts??
Should still be able to find a Scout from the 76-80 era. The Scout rear is pretty wide, and if too wide for a Merc, then look for a 76 CJ5 rear Dana 44. Narrower, and possibly more suitable for a Merc. (One-year-only for a 44 with flanged axles, and probably pretty rare.) Lug pattern on all of these is 5-on-5.5. I can possibly come up with drum-to-drum dimensions, if any of this info is useful for the Merc project.
If this were my project, I would likely direct my focus in some other direction - like the 9-in already mentioned, or a 8 or 8.5, or a later Model 44 from Jeep products (Wrangler Rubicon's, or even some GC's) (A lug pattern change would be needed for many of these, but not a serious distraction.) (BTW, our 96 Bronco has a 44 up front, and it has 3.54 gears.) Just an opinion....

Edit... I thought of one more possible rear end... 86 CJ, one-year-only, had a 44 with flanged axles, possibly a suitable width, lug-pattern is 5-5.5.

scooder · 05-18-2014, 03:42 PM

I believe some F100's and F150's came with the 44. The Merc axle is fairly wide, havnt measured one in a while, but 61-62" seems to be rolling around my head.
And with the correct carrier there are 3.54:1 available, and pretty much anything from deep 5,13 to 2.73:1 is available. There are even lockers out there new with 19 spline fitting.
Martin.

oldsman41 · 05-18-2014, 04:03 PM

well I feel like an idiot but will tell the whole story. bought the car and the guy told me the overdrive that was in it didn't work. ok, he gave me another trans that he said was rebuilt so I buy the car and find out both of the overdrive were shot. it is the hoghead type trans and I haven't found one yet that works. the only way I would buy one now would be from an alliance member or somebody that they knew.and would vouch that the guy was honest. iknow someone will say get them rebuilt but I don't have that kind of money.need to keep this within budget. thanks for the return messages

scooder · 05-18-2014, 04:32 PM

Why are they shot? What's actually not working? A lot of non working overdrive transmissions have electric problems that are fairly easy to fix. Dirty connections are very common.
You can download a pdf shop manual (free) for the overdrive. These have fault finding and test procedures in them. Just Google Borg Warner overdrive. I think it's a Studebaker site that comes up normally on the first page of results. The fact that it's Studebaker doesn't matter, the operation of the overdrive and it's electric bits are the same.
Martin.

oldsman41 · 05-18-2014, 05:04 PM

no the plantary gear is welded to the output shaft from having no oil in them.

scooder · 05-19-2014, 04:30 AM

Bugger! Sorry to heat that. The parts are available, Vanpelt is probably the best source.
Martin.

rotorwrench · 05-19-2014, 01:41 PM

The R-10 planetary carrier and planet gears should be relativley interchangeable. The length of the output shaft and drum might be different on some transmissions but I'll have to check and see what all FoMoCo products shared the same output. They are still out there but a guy has to look around a bit .

The Dana Spicer 41 had a 5 5/8" carrier bolt pattern and the 44 had the larger 6 5/8" bolt pattern. The 44 series carriers are likely different due to the ring gear to pinion center line dimension between the large tooth and the small tooth ring gears. I haven't done anything other than the Mercury and the F1 rear axles so I don't know how the carrier might differ from the later 53 to 56 F-100.

billwill · 05-19-2014, 01:48 PM

Also try shoebox ford ,com

rotorwrench · 05-19-2014, 06:13 PM

Mac VanPelt lists most of the R-10 parts. Whether he has them in stock, I can't say. If the main output shaft is still good, it may just need the planetary set which includes the sun gear, the planetary gears & carrier, and the ring gear. He lists the sprag hub & rollers too.

There are different main output shaft lengths so those are the parts that sometimes have to be searched for. I've purchased all the bearings from Mac before so I know he tries to stock all those.

I've rebuilt one of the 49 to early 51 Mercury overdrive transmissions not too god awfully long ago and I found all the parts that I needed then.

I also found this outfit that has Dana Spicer 44 gears and carriers in about any ratio a guy could want and they have the 19 spline type. A person could call them and inquire about fit and function for the early 44 series.
http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/

oldsman41 · 05-19-2014, 09:26 PM

thanks everyone for the help so far. the rear is a dana 44 its on the back of the housing. they are 61 inches wide wms to wms. 47 over 11 on the tag which is 4.27 gear. checked with a couple of guys my uncle knows they said they might be able to scrounge up some old parts if I can get the plantary gear off the shaft.like I said its really ugly in there.

05-17-2014, 04:20 PM	#1
oldsman41 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 157	51 merc rear end hi . I have a 51 merc with the 4.27 rear axle. would like to put in a 3.54 ring and pinion. cant seem to find anyone who makes stuff for the old dana 44 rear end can anybody here help? need the ring and pinion and the rebuild kit. any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks

05-17-2014, 05:02 PM	#3
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 51 merc rear end The 3.92 to 1 was the most common axle ratio. They work pretty well with the overdrive transmission installed and should still be relatively easy to find. The Merc-O-Matic cars had an even lower ratio if a person could locate one from a custom builder that has no use for it.

05-17-2014, 05:26 PM	#4
oldsman41 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 157	Re: 51 merc rear end yes that is what I was hoping for I think the merc o matic was a 3.54 or so

05-17-2014, 05:45 PM	#5
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 51 merc rear end They had two possible ratios. They had 3.54:1 and 3.31:1 ratios available.

05-17-2014, 06:15 PM	#6
ford3 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: oroville calif. Posts: 1,453	Re: 51 merc rear end Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) over drives are nice, but the rear ends are easier to work with, no wires to hook up to make the over drive work, and the solenoids for the over drives are almost impossible to find, and if you do find one they are pricey

05-18-2014, 04:24 AM	#7
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: 51 merc rear end Solenoids are available new in 6 or 12 volt from a number of suppliers including our very own Vanpelt. If I were keeping the Merc standard shift I would go overdrive, deep gears for real good acceleration, and the overdrive for loafing up the freeway. And all the Other benefits of the borg warner overdrive. Are they hard to find over there? I have two such transmissions here, furthest I traveled for one was 150 miles. And I'm in England. If your set on changing the axle ratio, your gonna have to change the carrier in the rear end. 1 carrier is for 3.92 and numerically higher, a different carrier is required for 3.73 and numerically lower. This is called the "case break" but as far as I can Work out, you need one for a 19 spline axle like the Merc. They do make one, if you Google Dana 44 19 spline carrier you should find one. Off the top of my head, I think Yukon or such aftermarket axle folk do them. This assumes you have a. Dana 44, should be. But I have pulled a Dana 41 out from under a Merc. Hope this helps, Martin.

05-18-2014, 12:08 PM	#8
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 51 merc rear end The 44 was in a lot of 4 wheel drive vehicles and they seem to have a following. I've also seen some lower ratio sets of gears from some pickup truck suppliers for the early F-100s. The folks that specialize in those would be worth giving a call to to see what carrier will work with them and the axles. The axles spline change may be as simple as changing the differential side gears but I don't know for sure. Most Mercury cars all used the 19 spline 16 tooth side gears with 10-tooth spider gears whether they were Dana 41 or 44.

05-18-2014, 12:40 PM	#9
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: 51 merc rear end From what I understand, the spline count does effect the carrier. The carriers have different part numbers. It would be nice if they were the same. Be good to know the actual difference was, I spec it's the diameter of the hole the side gear sits in, and maybe the thrust measurements. The 41 carrier is a completely different beast, the side gears are the same, and the axles and most other stuff. But the crown and pinion and carrier are different. Martin.

05-18-2014, 02:29 PM	#10
bobH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: so cal, placerville, vegas Posts: 1,394	Re: 51 merc rear end I've got a Jeep with a 79 Scout model 44 rear end, and it has 3.54 gears. I have no idea if this info helps, but my point is, there is such a thing as a Dana 44 with 3.54's. This was/is a completely stock (and original) rear end, as pulled from the 79 Scout. It came with a limited-slip (Trac-Loc, I think). If you happen to have a 41, I'm led to believe there is no hope of finding parts?? Should still be able to find a Scout from the 76-80 era. The Scout rear is pretty wide, and if too wide for a Merc, then look for a 76 CJ5 rear Dana 44. Narrower, and possibly more suitable for a Merc. (One-year-only for a 44 with flanged axles, and probably pretty rare.) Lug pattern on all of these is 5-on-5.5. I can possibly come up with drum-to-drum dimensions, if any of this info is useful for the Merc project. If this were my project, I would likely direct my focus in some other direction - like the 9-in already mentioned, or a 8 or 8.5, or a later Model 44 from Jeep products (Wrangler Rubicon's, or even some GC's) (A lug pattern change would be needed for many of these, but not a serious distraction.) (BTW, our 96 Bronco has a 44 up front, and it has 3.54 gears.) Just an opinion.... Edit... I thought of one more possible rear end... 86 CJ, one-year-only, had a 44 with flanged axles, possibly a suitable width, lug-pattern is 5-5.5. Last edited by bobH; 05-18-2014 at 02:37 PM.

05-18-2014, 03:42 PM	#11
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: 51 merc rear end I believe some F100's and F150's came with the 44. The Merc axle is fairly wide, havnt measured one in a while, but 61-62" seems to be rolling around my head. And with the correct carrier there are 3.54:1 available, and pretty much anything from deep 5,13 to 2.73:1 is available. There are even lockers out there new with 19 spline fitting. Martin.

05-18-2014, 04:03 PM	#12
oldsman41 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 157	Re: 51 merc rear end well I feel like an idiot but will tell the whole story. bought the car and the guy told me the overdrive that was in it didn't work. ok, he gave me another trans that he said was rebuilt so I buy the car and find out both of the overdrive were shot. it is the hoghead type trans and I haven't found one yet that works. the only way I would buy one now would be from an alliance member or somebody that they knew.and would vouch that the guy was honest. iknow someone will say get them rebuilt but I don't have that kind of money.need to keep this within budget. thanks for the return messages

05-18-2014, 04:32 PM	#13
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: 51 merc rear end Why are they shot? What's actually not working? A lot of non working overdrive transmissions have electric problems that are fairly easy to fix. Dirty connections are very common. You can download a pdf shop manual (free) for the overdrive. These have fault finding and test procedures in them. Just Google Borg Warner overdrive. I think it's a Studebaker site that comes up normally on the first page of results. The fact that it's Studebaker doesn't matter, the operation of the overdrive and it's electric bits are the same. Martin.

05-18-2014, 05:04 PM	#14
oldsman41 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 157	Re: 51 merc rear end no the plantary gear is welded to the output shaft from having no oil in them.

05-19-2014, 04:30 AM	#15
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: 51 merc rear end Bugger! Sorry to heat that. The parts are available, Vanpelt is probably the best source. Martin.

05-19-2014, 01:41 PM	#16
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 51 merc rear end The R-10 planetary carrier and planet gears should be relativley interchangeable. The length of the output shaft and drum might be different on some transmissions but I'll have to check and see what all FoMoCo products shared the same output. They are still out there but a guy has to look around a bit . The Dana Spicer 41 had a 5 5/8" carrier bolt pattern and the 44 had the larger 6 5/8" bolt pattern. The 44 series carriers are likely different due to the ring gear to pinion center line dimension between the large tooth and the small tooth ring gears. I haven't done anything other than the Mercury and the F1 rear axles so I don't know how the carrier might differ from the later 53 to 56 F-100.

05-19-2014, 01:48 PM	#17
billwill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: capemaynewjersey Posts: 653	Re: 51 merc rear end Also try shoebox ford ,com

05-19-2014, 06:13 PM	#18
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 51 merc rear end Mac VanPelt lists most of the R-10 parts. Whether he has them in stock, I can't say. If the main output shaft is still good, it may just need the planetary set which includes the sun gear, the planetary gears & carrier, and the ring gear. He lists the sprag hub & rollers too. There are different main output shaft lengths so those are the parts that sometimes have to be searched for. I've purchased all the bearings from Mac before so I know he tries to stock all those. I've rebuilt one of the 49 to early 51 Mercury overdrive transmissions not too god awfully long ago and I found all the parts that I needed then. I also found this outfit that has Dana Spicer 44 gears and carriers in about any ratio a guy could want and they have the 19 spline type. A person could call them and inquire about fit and function for the early 44 series. http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/ Last edited by rotorwrench; 05-19-2014 at 06:36 PM.

05-19-2014, 09:26 PM	#19
oldsman41 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 157	Re: 51 merc rear end thanks everyone for the help so far. the rear is a dana 44 its on the back of the housing. they are 61 inches wide wms to wms. 47 over 11 on the tag which is 4.27 gear. checked with a couple of guys my uncle knows they said they might be able to scrounge up some old parts if I can get the plantary gear off the shaft.like I said its really ugly in there.