The Ford Barn

ken-r-mer · 04-25-2014, 09:58 AM

Losing faith in the Motor City Flathead product for the full flow oil filtration system that I bought. The problem I caught was the 5-6' of exterior 1/2" hose line provided was a Goodyear fuel/emmissions hose that was rated for 35 psi. Also the 1/4" - (AN)-8 fitting that screws into the rear of the block was not in the packaging. Considering oil pressures can reach 60 psi, it seems to be a disaster in waiting. So I replaced it with a 1/2" hose line rated for 300 psi and the missing 1/4" - AN-8 fitting too that I bought from Summit Racing.

Issue #1: I noticed is the 1/4" npt threaded fitting removed from the block had what appears to be a 1/16" or smaller passage hole. The 1/4" - AN-8 fitting had a much larger hole.

Installing an oil pressure gauge: I have a '52 F-1, 6 volt system, stock flathead V8. I'll assume I can't reuse the original oil sending unit as the 1/2" diameter hose lines are much larger than the stock 1/8" steel lines, thus affecting the oil pressure. Besides, I couldn't find a fitting with 1/2" double ended hose connectors with a place to screw in the old gauge sensor.

So I picked up a generic mechanical oil pressure gauge from the local parts store. I hooked up the 1/16" plastic tube line to the 2nd opening at the rear of the engine block using various brass npt fittings. The stock plug was a 1/4" npt thread. This plug is adjacent, but 90 degrees to the 1/2" hose feed at the rear of the block. When I cranked up the engine, the mechanical gauge needle did a 360 spin on the gauge dial. It went from zero, up past 60 psi, and way past the top limit of 150 psi. There is no way that flathead is pushing over 150 psi.

So where did I go wrong?

Ronnie · 04-25-2014, 10:10 AM

Pictures of the installation and routing of the external lines including filter placement would be a good help.

R

Ross F-1 · 04-25-2014, 10:19 AM

Diameter of the hose has no effect on oil pressure (within reason). Try the gauge on a known engine or pressure source (air compressor). I would assume it is no good.

ken-r-mer · 04-25-2014, 10:33 AM

Ok here are the pics.

Don't mind the scratches in the paint on the fittings. They'll be addressed. Also mid-way in replacing the head bolt caps due to the 2nd torque after the startup due to a valve job.

Oh and that reverse linkage misses the gauge fitting by 1/8"

texas webb · 04-25-2014, 11:50 AM

Only thing I would add is use copper tubing instead of plastic.

V8 Bob · 04-25-2014, 02:03 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

The full flow systems Mark installed and sold years ago came with Goodyear Insta-grip 1/2" 300 psi hose along with Aeroquip socketless fittings, as did mine. Why your system came with inferior hose and missing fitting(s) is strange, unless it is not a true MCF system.
The fitting you removed from the rear with the small id may have been the special one restricting flow to the stock partial flow oil filter flatheads used.
It looks like the filter is plumbed correctly. Are you sure the block oil passages on the rear are open? (pump not dead-headed) Can't think of anything with a stock block that would cause very high pressure, because both the pump and filter have relief valves that should limit pressures well under 100 psi.
As mentioned, I would change to a copper or SS AN (brake) gauge line, and try to change/reposition the gauge 90 to allow more room for the reverse linkage, but there is no reason you can't use the stock sender, except for lack of room.

sidevalve8ba · 04-25-2014, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Bob

The full flow systems Mark installed and sold years ago came with Goodyear Insta-grip 1/2" 300 psi hose along with Aeroquip socketless fittings, as did mine. Why your system came with inferior hose and missing fitting(s) is strange, unless it is not a true MCF system.
The fitting you removed from the rear with the small id may have been the special one restricting flow to the stock partial flow oil filter flatheads used.
It looks like the filter is plumbed correctly. Are you sure the block oil passages on the rear are open? (pump not dead-headed) Can't think of anything with a stock block that would cause very high pressure, because both the pump and filter have relief valves that should limit pressures well under 100 psi.
As mentioned, I would change to a copper or SS AN (brake) gauge line, and try to change/reposition the gauge 90 to allow more room for the reverse linkage, but there is no reason you can't use the stock sender, except for lack of room.

I too bought a full flow system from Mark years ago for my 8BA. The kit came just as described above and has worked just fine. I agree with changing to a metal line for the pressure gauge.

Rocketsled · 04-25-2014, 05:03 PM

I've installed and run 2, MCF sytems, on 59 A/B and 8CM with good result.
Tip: when changing oil and filter- drain and refill oil and then run the engine.
Stop and replace filter. Run again and top off the oil level after stopping the engine.
Worked for me.

JM 35 Sedan · 04-25-2014, 06:40 PM

Mark Kirby of Motor City Flathead fame has been out of business for about 10 years. Did you buy your oil filter system before he went out of business or is someone selling that system now using the MCF name?
I have had an original MCF system on a rebuilt '35 21 stud engine for about 12 years now. Still working well.

40cpe · 04-25-2014, 07:36 PM

Did this kit come with an oil pump, or parts to modify yours? Maybe something is faulty with the relief valve.

oldford2 · 04-25-2014, 07:41 PM

Well, I am not sure all the work and expense is worth it. Is it better than changing your oil every 1000 miles?
John

ken-r-mer · 04-25-2014, 09:35 PM

It came with a modified Melling pump, the braided hose line w/ the AN-8 fittings (from pump to just outside the oil pan), the remote oil filter unit, oil filter, AN-8 fittings to exit and enter the remote filter, a straight AN-8 fitting to the missing 1/4" NPT - AN-8 adapter (enters the rear of the engine block) and the 6' of 1/2" - 35 psi Goodyear fuel/emmissions hose.

I replaced the brass AN-8 straight fittings w/ the black units for a cleaner routing and look. I also modified the braided hose line inside the pan as forcing the hose to bend 90 degrees bothered me where it was sight unseen. So I used additional AN-8 fittings to make the 90 degree turn, thus keeping the braided hose essentially straight.

It was advertised as an MCF Full Flow Oil System. The accompanied paperwork has P&M Industries on the letterhead out of Gregory, Michigan. 3 calls to P & M Industries, Glen Pantke president, and no returned calls. There was also a number to call for questions, but that number is no longer in service. They are now, officially, on my crap list.

Oh spliced in a homemade fitting using a 1/2" barbed hose ends on two fittings (one w/ male threads and one w/ female (Home Depot). Screwed the two fittings together. In the area of the two overlapping threads I drilled and tapped a 1/4" NPT thread for the original sending unit. Started it up and the original gauge works fine. So apparently the mechanical gauge was faulty (its going back to Advance Auto Parts for a $15+ refund).

42merc · 04-26-2014, 08:05 AM

Did you buy your kit on line? If so, it's not a MCF kit. Probably a knockoff.
I talked to the fellow who took over the MCF oil pump business last summer at a car show.
He does not market on line & his shop is in Ohio. He also fields a lot calls from the unhappy customers of the other product .
Google MCF oil pumps & take a look.
The other fellows ad 'says' designed by Mark Kirby.

big jungle jim · 04-27-2014, 09:46 AM

P&M industries full flow kits are badly made MCF knock offs. I have built over 30 engines using the proper MCF full flow kits brought from Phil Goller (Goller Hot Rods) who is the only supplier of the true MCF kits (still works with Mark Kirby on occasions) and other MCF parts. The proper kits are fantastic.
I had one customer who brought his own kit for an engine i was building lasted a whole 25 miles before the internal braid line blew apart, this is when i found it he had brought the kit from PM industries, he new better the second time.

38 Ford Guy · 04-27-2014, 08:13 PM

Went through the same thing from the guy at P & M. Bought it on EBay and had all the same issues you did. I called Phil from Gollers and he was more than helpful. I have the correct system and now it works great. The guy from Michigan is a crook!!!

53moredoor · 05-20-2014, 06:44 AM

I installed a MCF like system in my Flatty last week, now stumbled across this post. Didn´t start the engine yet. I bought my kit years ago at nightprowlers.com. There were no instructions with it. How do I know what kit I have? I´ll be at my shop in a couple hours and will take a look at the hoses. What else can I do to indentify?
I regret not opening and checking the pump now. :-/

sidevalve8ba · 05-20-2014, 08:09 AM

Click on the link below for Goller. He was very helpful over the phone.

http://www.gollershotrods.com/contact.aspx

Ol' Ron · 05-20-2014, 08:24 AM

It would seem the original Ford system would be a better deal price wise. The modern version uses a spin on oil filter. and I don't mean the by-pass version.

34PKUP · 05-20-2014, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

It would seem the original Ford system would be a better deal price wise. The modern version uses a spin on oil filter. and I don't mean the by-pass version.

Isn't the original Ford system a by-pass system?

scooder · 05-20-2014, 01:18 PM

There is the Ford military oil system aswell. Some call it a 90% flow. Oil comes out of the pump, some of it goes off to the rear main, rest of it goes out the (enlarged) oil pressure/bypass oil tapping. Through a filter and back in through a new hole on the bell.
Ron's book has this setup in detail.
Martin.

04-25-2014, 10:10 AM	#2
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: MCF oil filter system help Pictures of the installation and routing of the external lines including filter placement would be a good help. R

04-25-2014, 10:19 AM	#3
Ross F-1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NM Posts: 2,438	Re: MCF oil filter system help Diameter of the hose has no effect on oil pressure (within reason). Try the gauge on a known engine or pressure source (air compressor). I would assume it is no good. __________________ '52 F-1, EAB flathead

04-25-2014, 11:50 AM	#5
texas webb Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: San Antonio Texas Posts: 636	Re: MCF oil filter system help Only thing I would add is use copper tubing instead of plastic.

04-25-2014, 02:03 PM	#6
V8 Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Granger (Northern) Indiana Posts: 1,520	Re: MCF oil filter system help Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The full flow systems Mark installed and sold years ago came with Goodyear Insta-grip 1/2" 300 psi hose along with Aeroquip socketless fittings, as did mine. Why your system came with inferior hose and missing fitting(s) is strange, unless it is not a true MCF system. The fitting you removed from the rear with the small id may have been the special one restricting flow to the stock partial flow oil filter flatheads used. It looks like the filter is plumbed correctly. Are you sure the block oil passages on the rear are open? (pump not dead-headed) Can't think of anything with a stock block that would cause very high pressure, because both the pump and filter have relief valves that should limit pressures well under 100 psi. As mentioned, I would change to a copper or SS AN (brake) gauge line, and try to change/reposition the gauge 90 to allow more room for the reverse linkage, but there is no reason you can't use the stock sender, except for lack of room. Last edited by V8 Bob; 04-25-2014 at 03:39 PM.

04-25-2014, 05:03 PM	#8
Rocketsled Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wakefield, N.H. USA Posts: 142	Re: MCF oil filter system help I've installed and run 2, MCF sytems, on 59 A/B and 8CM with good result. Tip: when changing oil and filter- drain and refill oil and then run the engine. Stop and replace filter. Run again and top off the oil level after stopping the engine. Worked for me.

04-25-2014, 09:58 AM	#1
ken-r-mer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 101	MCF oil filter system help Losing faith in the Motor City Flathead product for the full flow oil filtration system that I bought. The problem I caught was the 5-6' of exterior 1/2" hose line provided was a Goodyear fuel/emmissions hose that was rated for 35 psi. Also the 1/4" - (AN)-8 fitting that screws into the rear of the block was not in the packaging. Considering oil pressures can reach 60 psi, it seems to be a disaster in waiting. So I replaced it with a 1/2" hose line rated for 300 psi and the missing 1/4" - AN-8 fitting too that I bought from Summit Racing. Issue #1: I noticed is the 1/4" npt threaded fitting removed from the block had what appears to be a 1/16" or smaller passage hole. The 1/4" - AN-8 fitting had a much larger hole. Installing an oil pressure gauge: I have a '52 F-1, 6 volt system, stock flathead V8. I'll assume I can't reuse the original oil sending unit as the 1/2" diameter hose lines are much larger than the stock 1/8" steel lines, thus affecting the oil pressure. Besides, I couldn't find a fitting with 1/2" double ended hose connectors with a place to screw in the old gauge sensor. So I picked up a generic mechanical oil pressure gauge from the local parts store. I hooked up the 1/16" plastic tube line to the 2nd opening at the rear of the engine block using various brass npt fittings. The stock plug was a 1/4" npt thread. This plug is adjacent, but 90 degrees to the 1/2" hose feed at the rear of the block. When I cranked up the engine, the mechanical gauge needle did a 360 spin on the gauge dial. It went from zero, up past 60 psi, and way past the top limit of 150 psi. There is no way that flathead is pushing over 150 psi. So where did I go wrong? Last edited by ken-r-mer; 04-25-2014 at 01:23 PM.

04-25-2014, 06:40 PM	#9
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: MCF oil filter system help Mark Kirby of Motor City Flathead fame has been out of business for about 10 years. Did you buy your oil filter system before he went out of business or is someone selling that system now using the MCF name? I have had an original MCF system on a rebuilt '35 21 stud engine for about 12 years now. Still working well. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein* Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 04-27-2014 at 09:53 AM.

04-25-2014, 07:36 PM	#10
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: MCF oil filter system help Did this kit come with an oil pump, or parts to modify yours? Maybe something is faulty with the relief valve.

04-25-2014, 07:41 PM	#11
oldford2 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: pittsfield, MA Posts: 2,086	Re: MCF oil filter system help Well, I am not sure all the work and expense is worth it. Is it better than changing your oil every 1000 miles? John

04-25-2014, 09:35 PM	#12
ken-r-mer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 101	Re: MCF oil filter system help It came with a modified Melling pump, the braided hose line w/ the AN-8 fittings (from pump to just outside the oil pan), the remote oil filter unit, oil filter, AN-8 fittings to exit and enter the remote filter, a straight AN-8 fitting to the missing 1/4" NPT - AN-8 adapter (enters the rear of the engine block) and the 6' of 1/2" - 35 psi Goodyear fuel/emmissions hose. I replaced the brass AN-8 straight fittings w/ the black units for a cleaner routing and look. I also modified the braided hose line inside the pan as forcing the hose to bend 90 degrees bothered me where it was sight unseen. So I used additional AN-8 fittings to make the 90 degree turn, thus keeping the braided hose essentially straight. It was advertised as an MCF Full Flow Oil System. The accompanied paperwork has P&M Industries on the letterhead out of Gregory, Michigan. 3 calls to P & M Industries, Glen Pantke president, and no returned calls. There was also a number to call for questions, but that number is no longer in service. They are now, officially, on my crap list. Oh spliced in a homemade fitting using a 1/2" barbed hose ends on two fittings (one w/ male threads and one w/ female (Home Depot). Screwed the two fittings together. In the area of the two overlapping threads I drilled and tapped a 1/4" NPT thread for the original sending unit. Started it up and the original gauge works fine. So apparently the mechanical gauge was faulty (its going back to Advance Auto Parts for a $15+ refund). Last edited by ken-r-mer; 04-25-2014 at 10:03 PM.

04-26-2014, 08:05 AM	#13
42merc Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Buchanan, MI Posts: 676	Re: MCF oil filter system help Did you buy your kit on line? If so, it's not a MCF kit. Probably a knockoff. I talked to the fellow who took over the MCF oil pump business last summer at a car show. He does not market on line & his shop is in Ohio. He also fields a lot calls from the unhappy customers of the other product . Google MCF oil pumps & take a look. The other fellows ad 'says' designed by Mark Kirby. Last edited by 42merc; 04-26-2014 at 08:14 AM.

04-27-2014, 09:46 AM	#14
big jungle jim Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 10	Re: MCF oil filter system help P&M industries full flow kits are badly made MCF knock offs. I have built over 30 engines using the proper MCF full flow kits brought from Phil Goller (Goller Hot Rods) who is the only supplier of the true MCF kits (still works with Mark Kirby on occasions) and other MCF parts. The proper kits are fantastic. I had one customer who brought his own kit for an engine i was building lasted a whole 25 miles before the internal braid line blew apart, this is when i found it he had brought the kit from PM industries, he new better the second time.

04-27-2014, 08:13 PM	#15
38 Ford Guy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Central MN Posts: 108	Re: MCF oil filter system help Went through the same thing from the guy at P & M. Bought it on EBay and had all the same issues you did. I called Phil from Gollers and he was more than helpful. I have the correct system and now it works great. The guy from Michigan is a crook!!! __________________ "If you always do what you have always done then you will always get what you always got." Henry Ford

05-20-2014, 06:44 AM	#16
53moredoor Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 5	Re: MCF oil filter system help I installed a MCF like system in my Flatty last week, now stumbled across this post. Didn´t start the engine yet. I bought my kit years ago at nightprowlers.com. There were no instructions with it. How do I know what kit I have? I´ll be at my shop in a couple hours and will take a look at the hoses. What else can I do to indentify? I regret not opening and checking the pump now. :-/

05-20-2014, 08:09 AM	#17
sidevalve8ba Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Harrisonburg, VA Posts: 842	Re: MCF oil filter system help Click on the link below for Goller. He was very helpful over the phone. http://www.gollershotrods.com/contact.aspx

05-20-2014, 08:24 AM	#18
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: MCF oil filter system help It would seem the original Ford system would be a better deal price wise. The modern version uses a spin on oil filter. and I don't mean the by-pass version. Last edited by Ol' Ron; 05-20-2014 at 08:30 AM.

05-20-2014, 01:18 PM	#20
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: MCF oil filter system help There is the Ford military oil system aswell. Some call it a 90% flow. Oil comes out of the pump, some of it goes off to the rear main, rest of it goes out the (enlarged) oil pressure/bypass oil tapping. Through a filter and back in through a new hole on the bell. Ron's book has this setup in detail. Martin.