'29 A Engine Out, Now What?

[MartyAndrew]

Hi all. I'm new here. I have a '29 Coupe which my dad bought in the 1990s. It was stored in a barn since the 60s and already had a lot of bondo. I bought it from him when he got sick, took it apart (it ran/drove) in 1998, had all panels blasted/primed, bought new body parts and started reassembling it. Had 2nd kid in 2000 and all Model A work stopped. NOW 1st kid is 16, gung ho, and we are trying to finish the job!
We got enough body structure together to take it back off the chassis, and have been cleaning sludge off the chassis, bumper-to-bumper for the last 2 weeks. Nearly done, we took the motor out last night to clean that area and start blasting, priming, painting and putting parts back ON the chassis.
My Question Is: With the engine out, is there anything I should do with it or check on it that I will really wish I had done if I just put the engine back in and do nothing but clean it? It ran 12 years ago, but the last time it ran some sort of shear pin on the crank pully sheared. I never replaced it and haven't started it since. Does this indicate any major problems?
I've worked on cars most of my life as a hobby but other than a few books and looking at this car for a decade or so, I'm new to Model As.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Also, I've joined MARC and will attend a local meeting soon.

Marty

[Russell in Tulsa]

Welcome to the 'barn! I have a '30 std. coupe and have enjoyed it since 2000.
I have had a lot of fun with it ,BUT, I thought the new to me, rebuilt engine would really be the way to go. Removed the old engine, installed the new one and since have had it in and out at least 4 times due to knocks etc. So, I am not the one to help other than to say drop the oil pan and the dipper tray, and also the valve cover under and behind the intake/exhaust manifold and clean all of the areas and oil holes and then get the instructions to check the bearings and clearances needed for the adjustment of the main and rod journals. Also check the wrist pins for unusual side to side movement. Now would be the time to freshen up the water pump, clean any carbon from the head etc. etc. etc.
Don't ask me how I know to try these. And again, Welcome

[bogdonj]

I would check the frame for straightness especially near the motor mounts. I would also take off the motor mounts and clean them up and inspect them for cracks. Also install new rubber with the mounts.

Welcome to the forum!

[newshirt]

Welcome, Marty!
Do you have an original two-blade fan? Replace it with an aluminum one. Easy to do before installing the radiator.

[James Rogers]

There is no shear pin on the crank pulley. I don't know what could have broken but it is not going to be good since there is nothing in that area that is expendable.

[MartyAndrew]

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Thanks for the advice so far.
- I do have the 2-blade fan. I thought it looked sort of cool and original. What is better about the aluminum fan?
- On the crank pulley, as I rotate the pulley I can see 2 holes that are about 3/16" diameter, opposite each other in the pulley, and a matching hole cross-drilled thru the crank. Did someone add this? How is the pulley normally kept from rotating on the crank?
- Bogdonj, it definitely looks like original rubber on between motor mounts and frame (hard as a rock). I thought it also looked nostalgic and was going to leave it. Bad idea?
- The motor mounts have definitely matchboxed a little bit due to the engine weight. It was tight to get a socket on the bottom bolt due to interference with the bottom plate of the mount. I thought I'd give them a whack before painting and get them square again. I don't have frame straightness checks in the books I have: "How to restore your Model A Vol 1, 2 and 3" and "The model A as Henry Built It". Recommendation for this info? It seems REALLY flexible as we carry it around the barn. Rails don't look bent at all and it doesn't seem to be matchboxed. It this that important to worry about? This won't be a show car, I just want it to look nice and be drivable to work now and then.
- Say, on the subject of leaving original stuff, when I scraped the oil/etc. off the inside of the frame rails where the engine was, there was a thin black coating on the frame. It comes off with brakecleen in a big black puddle. I wondered if this could the original "asphalt" dip coating these had when new, and if so, should I leave it there?
- Russell, thanks for the tips. I didn't really want to hear all that. I'll look into all of it. Will replacement gaskets be easy to come by for head, valve cover and oil pan?
Thanks everyone.
Marty

[James Rogers]

There should not be a hole like you describe in the pulley. How about a picture.

[dr.j]

FRAME!! Make it perfect, perfectly straight! If not, the problems with come back to haunt you down the road what with body alignment, lean etc etc.

[bogdonj]

Bogdonj, it definitely looks like original rubber on between motor mounts and frame (hard as a rock). I thought it also looked nostalgic and was going to leave it. Bad idea?


Yes it's a bad idea in my opinion replace while the engine is out and easy to do. If you install the engine with the old ones in you could get good vibration and it's always a pain pulling the engine again. Been there, don't that.

[Chris in CT]

Hi Marty,
Welcome to the hobby! If your crank pulley/crankshaft was cross-drilled for a roll pin or some such, then I am seeing a very serious bunch of red flags raised on this engine. That pulley was designed to be held in place with a 5/8 bolt in the nose of the crankshaft. While your engine is out, remove the oil pan, clean it out with special attention to pieces of metal embedded in the sludge, and have an experienced engine machinist check for play in all of the bearings and other engine components. By just removing the oil pan, you are going to be able to see quite a bit, and make some very good guesses about the condition of the engine, as well as determining if any other repairs such as the cross-drilling have occurred to engine internals. Good Luck with your "new" Model A. PS I think volume 2 of the Les Andrews has a section on frame straightening...

Chris

--------------------------------------

www.burlingtoncrankshaft.com

[Rusty Homestead Fl]

Definently check the frame as others have said. What "Looks" straight may be off only 1/4 inch ...but will equal 100 yards of frustration. The common a sag location is around drivers side motor mount. Looks great so far. Have fun!!

[Bob C]

- I do have the 2-blade fan. I thought it looked sort of cool and original. What is better about the aluminum fan?

The new two blade won't break like the original one, and it will break
one day.

Bob

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Bob C

- I do have the 2-blade fan. I thought it looked sort of cool and original. What is better about the aluminum fan?

The new two blade won't break like the original one, and it will break
one day.

Bob

They look the same to the none judge eye.

[MartyAndrew]

Hi all. Here are some pictures of my crank pulley.
I forgot to look for a 5/8 bolt on the end of the crank but the nature of this pulley doesn't seem to want to be held by anything on the end. Comments?

I've also attached some frame photos. I'm sure there's some measurement methods I need to learn and use, but just eyeballing this frame it's hard to imagine I could do anything that doesn't make it worse than it is. It looks pretty straight to me. Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

[Keith True]

You have the 5/8 bolt in the front of the crank,it is the ratchet for the hand crank.It is a 5/8 thread,not a 5/8 hex size.That is not a factory pulley,it looks like an old pressed tin aftermarket piece.Are you positive the crank is drilled also?I have the remains of one that was a two piece.The inside slid on and the outside threaded over it and was locked in place with set screws through the side like yours shows.If it is drilled right through,it ain't good.Ford 8N tractors were notorious for the front pulley loosening up and being run for ages before anybody noticed.That was a popular fix for them,bore a hole and run a pin through it.It was no loss to the tractor,the crank and pulley were already ruined and if you could get a few more years out of it with the hack fix,good.

[Bob C]

You need to pull a string tight across the top of the frame
and check for sag near the motor mounts.

Bob

[James Rogers]

What you have is a junk aluminum pulley and it should NOT have a pin through it. I would remove the pulley and buy a new one and a new crank pulley bolt. Also, remove the timing cover and make sure the slinger is on the crank behind the pulley. It will look like a round piece of metal cupped and keyed to the crank. Old builders would sometimes leave these off and the pulley would sit too far back on the crank and the bolt would not tighten up on the pulley resulting in a loose pulley. If it is missing, make sure you replace it before you install the new pulley. Hopefully the crank has not been drilled even though it probably won't matter with a new pulley.

[James Rogers]

To check the frame, stretch a piece of string the full length of the rail on top and put a 1/2" block under each end. Use another 1/2" block to measure the string to frame at various places on the frame. The most common sag will most often be at the motor mount at the flywheel housing.

[Chris in WNC]

also measure the frame diagonally to make certain it is square.

get your motor mount rubber pads from someone like Brattons, Snyders or Berts so they will fit like they should. and don't leave out the sleeves around the frame-to-motor mount bolts......

how about putting your city & state in your posts?
the same goes for all of the rest of you who have neglected to do so!

[700rpm]

how about putting your city & state in your posts?
the same goes for all of the rest of you who have neglected to do so!

Not to hijack this thread, but I think that should be required in order to sign up, like your alias.

Regarding parts, Marty: While you're getting stuff, buy a copy of The Service Bulletins and Les Andrews book, Vol I. These will prove invaluable as you work on the car, and will be references you use for as long as you have a Model A.

[MartyAndrew]

Thanks for all the tips. I checked my frame with a tight string and blocks like Mr. Rogers said to and and if there was a 1/16" gap at the biggest spot that's all there was, so I'm leaving it as-is. Got it ready for priming and painting now, I think.
Question: I have received recommendations for Model A detail books by Les Pearson and Les Andrews. Has anyone reviewed both, and any views on which is better? Best I can tell, Mr. Andrews uses illustrations and Mr. Pearson uses pictures but both claim to contain good info for a beginner.
Finally, I've added my state. I hope they don't add a requirement for lots of personal detail. I've had my credit card number stolen and used, check amounts changed and cashed, and I'm a bit hesitant about putting personal information about myself on the web. I hope the forum understands and doesn't hold it against me as I continue to ask for help on this giant project.
Best regards to all.

[MartyAndrew]

Hi again. So, I took off the crank pulley and it does appear to be aluminum. A nice die-cast part I might add, but surely aluminum. And yes, the hole is drilled through the pulley, the crank and the crank bolt. I found a few pieces of a cotter pin in the hole in the bolt and the pulley face is now scored where the washers spun when the cotter pin sheared and it was still running last time I ran it.
I'll check for the slinger as Mr. Rogers said, and I guess I'll have to get a new pulley. It mates to another aluminum part that's still on the crank. I'm guessing I'll need to replace that too when I get a new pulley. Is the 2-piece pulley the recommended way to go?
Also, there are two washers that were under the crank bolt head. They are obliterated. It seems like they were some sort of steel-clad copper or brass material. Were these added shims to try to clamp the pulley? (I know, this will be easier when I get my book from Les Andrews or Pearson...)
I've attached pictures of the pulley, crank end, ratchet nut and washers. Any comments are welcome.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I'd buy an original one piece pulley and crank bolt.

[James Rogers]

Tom has it right. Get a new one piece pulley and make sure thew slinger is in place and a new bolt. Don't use the washers, they should not be needed if all is correct. When you install the new pulley, you should be able to feel it being just a little longer than the crank. Tighten the new crank bolt with an impact wrench and you will be good to go.

[Farrell In Vancouver]

Be careful with that impact gun! I have see two new repop one piece pulleys split from too much force!

[MartyAndrew]

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Is there actually a torque spec for the ratchet nut?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by MartyAndrew

Is there actually a torque spec for the ratchet nut?

Not a factory suggest torque spec. Just opinions from mechanics.

[Joe K]

Heh. I've got a Model A engine which has been drilled for a cross bolt (1/4-20) on the crankshaft pulley.

I'm going to ignore the holes and keep going back to original.

Joe K

[700rpm]

You don't have to give any personal information, not even your location, and certainly not any financial information. But your location helps us refer to resources and people near you.

Regarding books, I haven't seen Pearson's, but I have Andrews' and read it all the time. Not everything is explained or correct in that book, so it helps to have a cross reference or two. The Service Bulletins are the best thing, I think.