power brakes?

[Woodie UK]

Hi Barners,
I want to fit a combined brake servo/master cylinder to my French Matford Ford woodie and am looking for advice on where best to source one.
Colin

[scooder]

What is the rest of the braking system? This info is needed to recommend the master cylinder.
Martin.

[Woodie UK]

Hi Martin,
It's going to be stock drums all round....
Colin

[Mart]

Are they the familiar early ford hydraulics we are used to? Is the master cylinder like a 39-48 USA unit? I haven't a clue about Matfords. What year is your car?

Mart.

[Woodie UK]

The car is a '37-38 design that was dusted off by Ford post-war and manufactured until 1950...which is the acrual year of my car.

It has four wheel hydraulics and I've found 78 part numbers on some parts which tells me that it used lots of parts from the '37 parts bin.

Colin

[scooder]

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Ah gonna need more info on what it uses in the brake department, you might have to get dirty here Colin.
1937 USA and UK used string brakes, hydraulic didn't turn up till 1939.
To recommend a correctly sized master cylinder, we need the original master cylinder bore or the wheel cylinder sizes and type? As in two cylinders on front each side or one double end cylinder per side. It's possible they used the 1939-48 US stuff or Pilot hydro mechanical. A pic of brake assembly with the drum off would help immensely here.
Martin.

[Woodie UK]

Hi Guys,
Finally got some pics of the disassembled wheel and master cylinder for your delectation.
The wheel cylinders are 1 1/4 in and the master cylinder is 1 inch.

Some guys here in the UK think the master cylinder might be from a Ford Pilot but the wheel cylinders have drawn a blank.

I can rebuild the wheel cylinders but was thinking of installing one of those underfloor power brake units. Anybody fitted one they can recommend?

Colin

[Mart]

Not familiar with those parts at all, sorry. No experience with 'em.

[scooder]

Mustang drum/drum master cylinders come in one inch I believe, these can be used with/without servo. Your gonna be fabricating/modifying parts to get it in there. And need to fit pressure check valves front and back.
Why do you feel the need for a servo? As you probably know, the servo don't make brakes better, just less pedal pressure for more brake force. They will still fade. And still be drums. I've had drums with a servo, and I wouldn't do it again. Brakes got very sensitive, and got a fat lip off the steering wheel on repeated occasion.
tended to lock to easy in the wet or slippery stuff.
any chance of a pic of the loaded back plate? Be nice to know what's in there and the diameter of the brakes. The cylinder looks a fair match for the bendix type self energizing brakes.
Martin.

[Chris Nelson]

The wheel cylinder in your picture looks to be the same as the 39 to 48 wheel cylinder. The master cylinder is an unknown to me. there are several people that make the underfloor power brake setup. I used Pirate Jack for mine with a 7 inch booster.

[V8 Bob]

Originally Posted by Chris Nelson

The wheel cylinder in your picture looks to be the same as the 39 to 48 wheel cylinder...... I used Pirate Jack for mine with a 7 inch booster.

The wheel cylinder's bore is the same for both pistons, and has two mounting bolts, possibly duo-servo Bendix, but completely different from '39-'48 Lockheeds with stepped bores and 3 mounting bolts.

[Woodie UK]

Got to go with the power option as my wife would like to drive the car when its finished but she won't touch anything that hasn't got power assistance....

I'd put discs on the front if I could but nobody seems to make any kits that take the big hole wheels which I want to retain.
Colin

[Mart]

As the master cylinder is an oddball it might be worth looking for a modern replacement that is the same diameter. If there is room for the servo right at the master cylinder mount, look for a unit that can be mounted right in there. Some small cars have small diameter servos, but small cylinders, you might need to adapt a bigger cylinder to a smaller servo.

Having written all that, what may be the best scenario would be to rebuild the master, or replace with either something modern but the same diameter, or something old but still available like early ford or mustang. Then plumb in an add-on remote servo. These used to be available as a kit (Girling powerstop) and were used in lots of cars in the 60's and 70's. It can be mounted virtually anywhere.

Best of both worlds, keep everything standard, power brakes for the missus. The servo could be removed by a subsequent owner down the line if not wanted.

Mart.

Edit: I had a look (remote servo) on ebay and there are plenty of new ones for less than £100. Some say 1.90:1 ratio, some say 1.65:1, I'd go for the lesser ratio.

[scooder]

With the remote servos on the bay, get a genuine one not a fake. I've had to sort issues with folk who ordered the fake ones, genuine ones mostly work out of the box, if the little spring is under the white cap for the air filter. Had one that it was missing. One phone call and it was sorted.
Discs, have a word with Dick Spadaro. He sells an adaptor that allows fitting the wide five stud pattern wheels to late model hubs, used in conjunction with a disc kit for your spindles, I think you'd be job, jobbed.
Martin.

[Woodie UK]

Looks like a Dick Spadaro adaptor will allow me to fit front disc brakes after all.....nice!

Once again Barners to the rescue! Thanks Y'all
Colin

[Mart]

I wouldn't bet on it. With the disc brake kit, then the adaptor you might find you have an unacceptable increased offset on the wheels.

Can't say for sure, just a gut feeling. Can it be checked somehow?

Mart.