The Ford Barn

Dan in MI · 02-08-2023, 07:51 AM

Saw this while surfing Craigslist this morning. Thought someone might be interested.
https://toledo.craigslist.org/pts/d/...587193832.html

Ol' Ron · 02-08-2023, 09:12 AM

Can you imagine what the cores would be worth?? To my knowledge only one engine was ever built, That goes back awhile!
Gramps

Bored&Stroked · 02-08-2023, 10:29 AM

Yeah, and looking at the block it was obviously hurt before, welded up and not put back together. My guess is that the block has a weak spot (where you see the welds) and cracked in this location. Would take a lot of money to "fix" it and my guess is that it would crack again - and/or leak coolant due to the sleeves not sealing well enough. Too bad Mark never got it sorted out - design, engineering and manufacturing wise.

40cpe · 02-08-2023, 10:39 AM

Looks like some uneven edges and missing pieces below the deck in the bottom cylinders in this picture.

Tim Ayers · 02-08-2023, 11:08 AM

It really is a shame Mark never got this engine sorted out. Seems like it had a ton of potential; albeit a pretty limited market of guys willing to spend the dough. If I recall, his plan was to make it something like a 327-350 ci flathead using this block and related parts.

I also think Motor City Flathead was ahead of the curve. If Kirby and MCF were around today, I would think he'd have no shortage of customers.

He was into it all: builds, cams, heads, intakes, etc. all of his own design. My friend has one of Mark's motors in his car and it runs really well and strong. Motor was built in the '90's.

mfirth · 02-08-2023, 11:12 AM

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Also, Mark was a stand up guy. Answered questions etc. Was at MCF years ago & though I bought nothing, was treated really great.

petehoovie · 02-08-2023, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan in MI

Saw this while surfing Craigslist this morning. Thought someone might be interested.
https://toledo.craigslist.org/pts/d/...587193832.html

19Fordy · 02-08-2023, 12:57 PM

So sad that Mark was not able to "perfect" his alum. block flathead dream.
Also visited his shop in Dundee, MI many years ago and he was very gracious. Bought a set of heads from him. $500 back in 1999.

I was hoping Shadow Rods would pick up where Mark left off.

petehoovie · 02-08-2023, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

So sad that Mark was not able to "perfect" his alum. block flathead dream.
Also visited his shop in Dundee, MI many years ago and he was very gracious. Bought a set of heads from him. $500 back then.

I was hoping Shadow Rods would pick up where Mark left off.

Tim Ayers · 02-08-2023, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

So sad that Mark was not able to "perfect" his alum. block flathead dream.
Also visited his shop in Dundee, MI many years ago and he was very gracious. Bought a set of heads from him. $500 back then.

I was hoping Shadow Rods would pick up where Mark left off.

Great score. I love those heads.

I seem to recall Ford having one of Mark's motors on display at their SVO booth at a major event. Later on, they were hassling him to pay a big lisc. fee to use the V8 symbol.

Pete · 02-08-2023, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

If I recall, his plan was to make it something like a 327-350 ci flathead using this block and related parts.

You do know of course that 350 ci is quite possible with a stock block.
While it definitely would not have the bragging rights of aluminum , it woulld be quite a bit cheaper.

Tim Ayers · 02-08-2023, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

You do know of course that 350 ci is quite possible with a stock block.
While it definitely would not have the bragging rights of aluminum , it woulld be quite a bit cheaper.

Sure, but I thought Kirby's plan was to do without a long stroke. It's been ages since I've read about Kirby's plans for this aluminum motor and I'm going off memory.

Using mental math, what would it take to get 350 ci, Pete? 3 7/8" X 4.5"?

V8COOPMAN · 02-08-2023, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Sure, but I thought Kirby's plan was to do without a long stroke. It's been ages since I've read about Kirby's plans for this aluminum motor and I'm going off memory.

Using mental math, what would it take to get 350 ci, Pete? 3 7/8" X 4.5"?

My God, that would come out to 425 inches, Tim!

Coop

Tim Ayers · 02-08-2023, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

My God, that would come out to 425 inches, Tim!

Coop

Really? I have 3 3/8th +.030 x 4" at 291. I thought 3 3/8 X 4 1/4" gets you 327-ish.

Full disclosure, I got a C- in HS math and avoided math in college like the plaque, so that's why I said I'm going off mental math. LOL!

Thank god my two sons got their mother's intelligence.

What would you need to get to 350-ish cubic inches?

Coop, maybe that was a Freudian slip since I've always wanted a 428 Hemi. LOL!

Pete · 02-08-2023, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Sure, but I thought Kirby's plan was to do without a long stroke. It's been ages since I've read about Kirby's plans for this aluminum motor and I'm going off memory.

Using mental math, what would it take to get 350 ci, Pete? 3 7/8" X 4.5"?

It doesn't really matter what the bore and stroke a street engine is. It doesn't have to meet any rule criteria. Mark's engine would have been illegal to race in most venues because of the aluminum block.

3.438 bore and 4.750 stroke is 352 ci. Been there and done it once.

Tim Ayers · 02-08-2023, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

It doesn't really matter what the bore and stroke a street engine is. It doesn't have to meet any rule criteria. Mark's engine would have been illegal to race in most venues because of the aluminum block.

3.438 bore and 4.750 stroke is 352 ci. Been there and done it once.

Ah. That's a long stroke for sure. I'd assume you would need to do some decent notching of the bottom of bores to clear, no?

Right. That's why I mentioned his aluminum engine would have been a very limited market. I'm just impressed that he loved the flathead so much that he'd go through the trouble and effort to come out with an aluminum block at all. The detail of the D-shaped porting as cast is cool to see.

V8COOPMAN · 02-08-2023, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Really? I have 3 3/8th +.030 x 4" at 291. I thought 3 3/8 X 4 1/4" gets you 327-ish.

Tim .... You had used a bore of 3-7/8 (NOT 3-3/8) in your first compute.

3-3/8" X 4-1/4" makes 304 inches.

BORE X BORE X STROKE X .7854 X 8

Coop

.

Tim Ayers · 02-08-2023, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Tim .... You had used a bore of 3-7/8 (NOT 3-3/8) in your first compute.

3-3/8" X 4-1/4" makes 304 inches.

BORE X BORE X STROKE X .7854 X 8

Coop

.

Coop, I was using my motor as an example of my math logic. When I said I have, I literally meant, I have, as in my current motor. That's why I said 3 3/8th +.030"

Ol' Ron · 02-09-2023, 09:05 AM

Ther's a fellow up in RI that ran a dragster with a 342 ci???? Flathead. I saw that engine as they were putting it together. Pistons were 3 1/2 and sleveed block was filled with aluminum I think. Short stroke. Only ran in the 10's but the sound was increadable
Gramps

wga · 02-09-2023, 10:05 AM

Looks like someone got an aluminum block with MCF heads.
At the GNRS this past weekend.

flathead4rd · 02-09-2023, 10:56 AM

Mark Kirby did the machine work on my block (3-3/8 X 4) when he was still in Dundee, Michigan. I still have it in my 50 Ford and it runs strong for an old flattie. He was a heck of a guy and you could call him anytime if you had questions. Too bad his dream didn't pan out.

petehoovie · 02-09-2023, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wga

Looks like someone got an aluminum block with MCF heads.
At the GNRS this past weekend.

Flathead · 02-09-2023, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Sure, but I thought Kirby's plan was to do without a long stroke. It's been ages since I've read about Kirby's plans for this aluminum motor and I'm going off memory.

Using mental math, what would it take to get 350 ci, Pete? 3 7/8" X 4.5"?

How do you get the rods to clear the camshaft? I saw a motor that big once but they used the early 30's extra thin rods. That didn't seem very strong but they were running it so who am I to judge.

Tim Ayers · 02-09-2023, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flathead

How do you get the rods to clear the camshaft? I saw a motor that big once but they used the early 30's extra thin rods. That didn't seem very strong but they were running it so who am I to judge.

No idea and I'm curious about how it all works as well.

Pete · 02-09-2023, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

No idea and I'm curious about how it all works as well.

You grind a notch in the bottom of the cylinder. Not even a very big one. No problem with the cam.

Tim Ayers · 02-09-2023, 07:34 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

You grind a notch in the bottom of the cylinder. Not even a very big one. No problem with the cam.

Man, I wish I lived closer to you, Pete. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and just soak what goes on in your shop or garage. I appreciate all that you share on here and the HAMB.

02-08-2023, 09:12 AM	#2
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: Slightly Off Topic - Aluminum Motor City Flathead Can you imagine what the cores would be worth?? To my knowledge only one engine was ever built, That goes back awhile! Gramps

02-08-2023, 10:29 AM	#3
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,070	Re: Slightly Off Topic - Aluminum Motor City Flathead Yeah, and looking at the block it was obviously hurt before, welded up and not put back together. My guess is that the block has a weak spot (where you see the welds) and cracked in this location. Would take a lot of money to "fix" it and my guess is that it would crack again - and/or leak coolant due to the sleeves not sealing well enough. Too bad Mark never got it sorted out - design, engineering and manufacturing wise.

02-08-2023, 11:08 AM	#5
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,181	Re: Slightly Off Topic - Aluminum Motor City Flathead It really is a shame Mark never got this engine sorted out. Seems like it had a ton of potential; albeit a pretty limited market of guys willing to spend the dough. If I recall, his plan was to make it something like a 327-350 ci flathead using this block and related parts. I also think Motor City Flathead was ahead of the curve. If Kirby and MCF were around today, I would think he'd have no shortage of customers. He was into it all: builds, cams, heads, intakes, etc. all of his own design. My friend has one of Mark's motors in his car and it runs really well and strong. Motor was built in the '90's. Last edited by Tim Ayers; 02-08-2023 at 11:49 AM.

02-08-2023, 11:12 AM	#6
mfirth Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: ohio Posts: 986	Re: Slightly Off Topic - Aluminum Motor City Flathead Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Also, Mark was a stand up guy. Answered questions etc. Was at MCF years ago & though I bought nothing, was treated really great.

02-09-2023, 09:05 AM	#19
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: Slightly Off Topic - Aluminum Motor City Flathead Ther's a fellow up in RI that ran a dragster with a 342 ci???? Flathead. I saw that engine as they were putting it together. Pistons were 3 1/2 and sleveed block was filled with aluminum I think. Short stroke. Only ran in the 10's but the sound was increadable Gramps

02-09-2023, 10:56 AM	#21
flathead4rd Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 505	Re: Slightly Off Topic - Aluminum Motor City Flathead Mark Kirby did the machine work on my block (3-3/8 X 4) when he was still in Dundee, Michigan. I still have it in my 50 Ford and it runs strong for an old flattie. He was a heck of a guy and you could call him anytime if you had questions. Too bad his dream didn't pan out.