Sage advice for Newbies

[ford38v8]

When I finally scraped up enough money to get into this hobby, I searched for several years till I found the car I would be happy with. My '38 was an older restoration, and had been a driver, but hadn't left its garage for some years. It stalled on the drive home, and wouldn't push start because the brakes were locked up. Two issues before it even made it home!

Of course this was way before the internet and the Fordbarn, and I knew of nobody who could help or advise, so after a year, I'd learned to carry a cardboard box of spare coils in the rumbleseat, and not much more. It was then that I was recruited to join a local RG of the EFV8CA, and I promptly secured the services of a volunteer to help with my mechanical brakes. My brake job was a great learning experience, neither of us knowing a fool thing about mechanical brakes! It was the same story when I obtained another volunteer to help me with a differential job.

My most important lesson on those occasions was to study the books on the subject at hand, as my willing volunteers were no more experienced than I was. We had fun, we drank a lot of beer, and we'd get the job done, but it was the books that insured that it was done correctly.

So this is my advice and I'm sticking to it: If you bought an antique car thinking you could hire someone to keep it running, wake up to the fact that it's a hobby now, and nobody works on these Fords for a living anymore. You're on your own, you and your $13.98 Taiwan wrenches. So... hit the books, read all you can find on that hunk of metal sitting in your garage, become the man you thought you'd hire. This is your hobby now, so make the most of it, enjoy every aspect of it, and show off those greasy fingernails to everyone who amires your car!!

[jerry grayson]

A-MEN!!!! It always makes me wonder why a guy (gal) buys an antique car and does not know how to air up the tires. Then he wants someone else to tell him how! Why a person will not invest in the hundreds of good publications that they can educate themselves with about the car they have bought is a mystery to me. A parts book should be first.
You have said it lots better than I can. Thanks!!!!

[Vic Piano]

That's some excellent advice Alan but, in addition to the "books", there is also a learning curve that can only be enhanced through trial and error... Nothing can replace actual hands on experience... If at first you don't succeed... And there's always the old stand by... If all else fails... go back and read the books again. The most important thing, as you mentioned, is to enjoy the hobby.

[Shadetree]

I have messed with old cars since I was a teenager but never rebuilt an engine until about 12 years ago. Like Alan says, buy a book and follow the instructions. This was a 350 Chevy engine that I put in my `37 Chevy Coupe. It was fairly simple and straight forward. It is still in it the coupe and still runs great.

Two years ago I tore into a Ford Flathead thinking I could do it. I soon discovered that it had mucho water damage from a cracked head and needed more than a ring and valve job so I loaded it up and took it an engine/machine shop. I felt I was in way over my head. But I regret it now by giving up, I should have stayed with it.

Alan is right, there is a lot more to owning an antique car than just polishing it...

[Ol' Ron]

Since I retired from building engines, I've helped several ohers build their engines in my shop. They inturn help me with the things I can't do. One of the fellows said. "It's not the destination, it's the trip" One of them is now considering building one on his own, THAT, made me feel very good, another Flathead builder. WE can use em!

[ken ct]

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Originally Posted by jerry grayson

A-MEN!!!! It always makes me wonder why a guy (gal) buys an antique car and does not know how to air up the tires. Then he wants someone else to tell him how! Why a person will not invest in the hundreds of good publications that they can educate themselves with about the car they have bought is a mystery to me. A parts book should be first.
You have said it lots better than I can. Thanks!!!!

I'll second that Jerry,so much could be answered by opening up some books.Everything you stated is correct. Thank you for putting it in print. ken ct.

[BILL WZOREK]

Alan:

You know for a fact that I want to learn by reading / with that being said I admit that reading comes hard to me,( at this date & age there must be a name for it, Besides STUPID ) I am more of a hands on kind of guy,
What I think it also important is that Just because it is in print does not make it gospel, a lot of the printed word is left up to interpretation,
By all means Read all you can about the project that you want to proceed at But at the end of the day don't think you have all the answers, just open another book and you will find a different solution to the same problem.
A perfect example is our beloved Ford Barn > ask a question and you get several answers to just one question.
Working on these old cars ( trucks ) is like using a road map. THERE IS MANY WAYS TO GET TO WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.
So the best of all worlds is to read & ask Questions on this forum as well as others
( although this is the best ) Post you thoughts as well as the smallest question , it may help others.

IF YOU ARE WORKING ON YOUR HOBBY IS IT REALLY WORK ?????

[Tom in SW VA]

Alan: I agree with you in part. I am well-educated and love to read, but have found it difficult to find "how to" books on my 37 Ford. I have the 1937 book published by Early Ford V-8 Club of America on the 37 Ford, but it doest tell how to trouble-shoot or how to trace an electrical problem, etc. The diagrams are good in the book and there are many websites that are useful. I am a retired educator who has a love of old cars. I have three. But I do not have the total expertise of some of the Fordbarners on here. So, I ask questions. I get many different and varied answers and, sometimes, ridicule and criticism for asking what is considered, by some, as "dumb" questions. But, I will keep asking because I am a learner at 71.

A question to all Fordbarners: Where do I find these "how to" repair and trouble-shoot books on my car? Please note that I do not have a club to turn to nor friends that know anything about my car. Yes, I belong to Early Ford V-8 Club of America, but it has been useless. I am just wasting my money on the membership. If you don't belong to a local chapter, you are left out.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

PS - Like it or not, I will continue asking questions on Fordbarn.

[Bruce/CT]

Boy, do I agree with Tom. I've restored a Model A and 57 T-Bird years ago. I had a number of good " How to Restore" books to reference for both, especially the "A". Step by step books. Now there are even more. There are NO good Flathead restoration books. The Early V8 35-36 Restoration Guide by Don Rogers is just that... a good Restoration Guide. It doesn't do step by step. Makes this total restoration much tougher.
I'm not sure if there is not enough market, too diverse a group of cars or no one out there motivated to take on this type of project. You'd think National would be motivated!
My 2 cent rant.
Bruce/CT

[Cecil/WV]

I have found, in many cases, that reading the book makes it clear as mud and then you get into the job and get yours hands on it and start reading again and it all makes sense.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Keep asking questions, reading, doing and learning. The big payoff will come when you take the first drive. You will forget about all the problems you had getting there.

[41ford1]

Tom,
Find a Motor's manual that has your year in its range. You usually can find them at swap meets, CL or EBay. You can also get the Ford shop manuals on CD from many of the parts suppliers. The CD has the service bulletins, trouble shooting methods and rebuild/repair instructions. These are about $60. Keep asking. Remember, there are no stupid questions.

[Vic Piano]

Owning, working on, and really driving a Flathead is like taking a continuing education class, you are always learning something. Books are a good start but, to me, "hands on" is the best teacher.

Also, there is no such thing as a stupid question however; there can be a lot of stupid answers...

[BILL WZOREK]

Vic:
Was that a stupid answer ?????

You know what a real STUPID answer is "I am to busy to go to the 2014 Barners Bash"

SORRY FOR STEALING THE THREAD::::::::

[Vic Piano]

Originally Posted by BILL WZOREK

Vic:
Was that a stupid answer ?????

You know what a real STUPID answer is "I am to busy to go to the 2014 Barners Bash"

SORRY FOR STEALING THE THREAD::::::::

Bill, I guess that depends on one’s point of view...

[Vic Piano]

Bill, I guess that depends on someone’s point of view...

[Tom in SW VA]

Originally Posted by Bruce/CT

Boy, do I agree with Tom. I've restored a Model A and 57 T-Bird years ago. I had a number of good " How to Restore" books to reference for both, especially the "A". Step by step books. Now there are even more. There are NO good Flathead restoration books. The Early V8 35-36 Restoration Guide by Don Rogers is just that... a good Restoration Guide. It doesn't do step by step. Makes this total restoration much tougher.
I'm not sure if there is not enough market, too diverse a group of cars or no one out there motivated to take on this type of project. You'd think National would be motivated!
My 2 cent rant.
Bruce/CT

Bruce, I agree with you. Apparantly the market is too small to produce "how to " manuals. I, too, have two Model As and the help from the national organization and books (manuals) have been invaluable. Not so with the Early Ford V-8. The Model A Ford Fordbarners have also been very helpful as have the Early Ford V-8 Fordbarners, but there is a dearth of manuals, etc. Makes it much harder to work on the V-8 because it is more complicated that the Model A anyway.

[37 Coupe]

Mayby it has been mentioned but the Early V-8 Ford service manual is a good book to have on hand .It is a Clymer copy of the Victor Page book.I don't know if it is in publication now but sometimes can be found on Ebay. The original Victor Page books also show up on Ebay but some are early publications and the Clymer book covers all. Having said that I will say that after 43 years of working on V8 Fords I think my biggest learning curve has been the last 7-8 years on Fordbarn. I now think of issues I had with past projects that with the knowledge I have now I wish I had back to correct.One in particular was a build on a 53-F-100, copper head gaskets on aluminum Edelbrock heads,nothing but problems. That was the recommend of the day with what printed material was available and from Edelbrock. Some bad advice lives on forever in the printed word,one case in partcular is engine rebuild advice in a mid eighties I believe V8 Times article.Author who was a well knowned engine builder here in Ohio advised to rebuild the earlier V-8 engines with 49-53 valve parts and do away with split guides and mushroom stems,sound advice. He went further to say that one may also improve by using all internals from 49-53 including crank and flywheel. I was so fortunate to have stumbled across the old Fordbarn as this was a current posting about proper flywheels for proper starter engagement. I had already placed a reconditioned 8BA flywheel and clutch behind a 4" Merc crank in my 59AB. Much help at the time from Walt Dupont and others,some not so good but basically the knowlege and help on here cannot be beat.

[37 Coupe]

Tom in Virginia I would also add that some of the information in books like Clymers and Motors are not going to help if you have modified some areas like you mentioned before with the remote coil.It should not be any different but may confusse you if going by any written word. One of the things I would do on your engine would be to get a good original coil rebuilt from Skip or a guy in Virginia that is really not mentioned much John Shelor in Radford Virginia. He rebuilds and sets up distributors,a retired electrical engineer who has written articles in V8 Times about coil moisture,distributors etc,long before Skip came along. When he got done with you , your ignition problems would be over and you would be certain it was a fuel problem. I don't know how far Radford is from you.

[Tom in SW VA]

Originally Posted by 37 Coupe

Tom in Virginia I would also add that some of the information in books like Clymers and Motors are not going to help if you have modified some areas like you mentioned before with the remote coil.It should not be any different but may confusse you if going by any written word. One of the things I would do on your engine would be to get a good original coil rebuilt from Skip or a guy in Virginia that is really not mentioned much John Shelor in Radford Virginia. He rebuilds and sets up distributors,a retired electrical engineer who has written articles in V8 Times about coil moisture,distributors etc,long before Skip came along. When he got done with you , your ignition problems would be over and you would be certain it was a fuel problem. I don't know how far Radford is from you.

Thanks, Radford is very close.

[TonyM]

When I bought my 1937 Ford, I also purchased about $400 worth of books--everything that pertained to my car. I never had worked on a pre-war Ford car. Using books and asking questions on FordBarn was the best thing for me. Last month I removed my differential/torque tube and removed my transmission. In May, I rewired the almost entire car--front to back (did not replace dome light wire or radio stuff). All from books and asking questions on Ford Barn.

Tom, buy everything that says 1937 Ford on it and read it. It worked for me. The books pictured are the nearest thing you are going to get to "how to" in the Ford Business.

[TonyM]

Tom, These books here are the nearest to "how to" you are going to get. They actually tell you how to take stuff apart and how to put it back together. These were very handy to me.

[TonyM]

Since my 1937 Ford shares parts and components with both pre 1937 and post 1937 cars, I elected to buy both the 1932 to 1937 Service Bulletins and the 1938-1940 Service Bulletins. Both have been handy and also very interesting.

[TonyM]

This 1938 Auto Mechanic Text Book was helpful.

[TonyM]

If you plan on working on Ford cars for the rest of your life--like I do--it's a good idea to get the so-called "Green Bible", also known as the 1928-1948 Ford Chassis Parts and Accessories Catalogue. Some have said that the chassis parts list and the body parts list books are useless. I disagree. Good reference material. Can't have too many books. (When I went to college, I never sold my text books back to the school book store--I still have almost all of my college texts).

Tom, get as many books about your 1937 Ford as you can and read. Ask as many questions on FordBarn as you can. Go back and read previous threads on FordBarn. Very Very Helpful. The EFV-8 club 1938-1939 Ford Book is also very handy for the 1937 Ford owner since the 1937 Ford shares some pieces with the 1938-39 models. (the 1938-1939 Ford Book is top notch and very detailed).

[TonyM]

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Originally Posted by Tom in SW VA

A question to all Fordbarners: Where do I find these "how to" repair and trouble-shoot books on my car?


Yes, I belong to Early Ford V-8 Club of America, but it has been useless. I am just wasting my money on the membership. If you don't belong to a local chapter, you are left out.



PS - Like it or not, I will continue asking questions on Fordbarn.

Tom, all the books I listed --except the 1938 Auto Mechanic Text--can be purchased from many of the early Ford V-8 Vendors we all use here on FordBarn: Mac's, Drake's, Joe', C&G Fords, Carpenter, etc, etc.

Don't quit the Early Ford V-8 Club. The club publication, The V-8 Times, is worth the cost of membership alone. These are award winning magazines and very informative. Read Them.

And keep asking questions here on Ford Barn.

I would help you if I could. Good luck.

[Shadetree]

I honestly believe you learn a lot of basic mechanics over the years if you have had an interest. I am sure there are many people, perhaps not on Fordbarn, that have never changed the oil and filter on their car. Yet, these same people can do tasks other than mechanical that I would not attempt. I know this is comparing apples with oranges, but no amount of manuals could teach me how to be a surgeon....

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Shadetree

I honestly believe you learn a lot of basic mechanics over the years if you have had an interest. I am sure there are many people, perhaps not on Fordbarn, that have never changed the oil and filter on their car. Yet, these same people can do tasks other than mechanical that I would not attempt. I know this is comparing apples with oranges, but no amount of manuals could teach me how to be a surgeon....

nor asking questions from your doctor in reality.

[ford38v8]

As a kid, like most of us, I was able to perform my rebuilding tasks with instructions from the junk yard operator. I'd tell him my problem and he'd tell me how to proceed. We don't have those experts available at our beck and call anymore, but we have Fordbarn, and a wonderful world of books I never knew existed as a kid. As I said in my first post, it was a major wakeup call to discover that the V8 Club member who volunteered to help me with my brakes wasn't any more knowledgeable than I was about mechanical brakes. I had obtained a vintage MoToRs Manual, which I knew and respected, but as some here have pointed out, there's nothing like hands-on-learning, and to reread the book in the garage with a buddy and a beer, it doesn't get any better than that. Two guys and a book can rebuild a Ford and the River Rouge factory that produced it.

As someone else pointed out, not everything you read is true, and a lot of it can't be understood until you dig into the job. To bolster my understanding of the job before digging into it, I began collecting books by different authors on the same subjects. Different wording of answers and different illustrations are important for full comprehension, and that right there is one very good reason that the Fordbarn today fills the gap of the missing junk yard operator.

Thinking about that junk yard operator, I have a gut feeling that he was well known in many parts of the USA. See if any of you remember this guy: He was short and wiry, his clothes were very dark in color as were his hands and arms from constant contact with dirty motor oil. Totally bald, black grease smudged forehead with a small fresh wound on one side. There were small islands of color about his bloodshot eyes, which squinted from the smoke of his ever present stogie. He had a nine day growth of beard always, which when smudged with grease would compliment the tobacco stain on his chin. His teeth defy description. Combat boots without laces sported a fresh dusting of dirt over the oil soaked leather. This guy was the filthiest example of mankind that ever roamed the earth, and he knew everything there was to know about every car in the world. He was my idol.

[Vic Piano]

Alan, that's a memory jog for sure. When I was a teenager (with my first Flathead), we had three competing "junk yards" in the town where I lived. The best one (because they let me search the yard and barn for parts) was owned by a man named Lester Cutting (not sure about the spelling of his last name), he was into early '20's Studebakers. I picked up a bunch of Flathead parts for my '48 TuDor Sedan from him, and you're right, he knew everything about "old cars".

[Shu47]

Good advice all. Read the books, get your hands dirty because nothing substitutes for hands on experience and have plenty of band-aids close by.

[1937pickup]

Great discussion, especially liked the comments about learning by doing. One thing that helps me is pictures, I am a north American male and I do much better figuring something out if there are pictures. I think most people on this site are the same way, how many times does someone ask a question and one of the responses is "post some pictures-they would sure help."

[BILL WZOREK]

Alan:

In your discription of the junk yard operator we had his brother.
We were mere teens playing with cars, if we needed any thing we would go and see "OLD" BOB / Heck he was all of 30 maybe 32 years wise.