Fakin a Merc !

[41LjH]

Fakin a Merc.

8BA block, early production I think, original Mercury crank and EAC heads. Bored 60 400jr. ect.
When the engine went back together the starter would not spin it over. When engaged it might move a couple of teeth and then stoped. It will turn over by hand although it is tight.
Started looking and noticed the starter plate set the starter a few degrees above the horizontal.
So I purchased another bell housing with a matching starter plate. Installed them, the starter is now level but, same problem. I had the started checked. It checked OK, but I had it rebuilt with extra pads to increase torque.
Nothing changed.
Now I am wondering if the Merc crank needs a different flywheel. I have another flywheel and the starter ring is a different height. Before I change the flywheel I thought I would see if anyone has any ideas.
The starter will be using 12V neg.
My 41 has the same electrical setup and spins like a Plymouth!
Any one have any ideas?

[corvette8n]

If you put the car in 3rd gear does it turn over ok when pushed?

[ford38v8]

When it went back together...? Has it not run at all since the rebuild? Many rebuilds will need a boost from a second battery for the first startup. Many variables here, not necessarily a bad sign, either.

[tubman]

I put a '51 Merc engine in my '51 Ford when the original engine started making funny noises. I used the flywheel, bellhousing, starter plate, and starter from the Ford on the Mercury engine, and it worked just fine.

[V8COOPMAN]

Just remember, you cannot mix-n-match flywheels. The 8BA/Merc stuff uses one flywheel, and the 59 and earlier types use another. The difference can be seen below, and you'll note that the 8BA-type flywheel has holes for the clutch bolts that are drilled ALL THE WAY through the wheel, where-as the earlier wheel has blind holes for the clutch bolts. DD

[41LjH]

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Thanks. Engine still on a run-in stand. I'm going to try a 1000 CCA battery next.

[Bored&Stroked]

I am wondering if you actually have a starter issue - versus maybe an engine issue? Is this a newly rebuilt/assembled engine? If so, then maybe something is wrong on the build - such that the starter can't turn it over?

How easy is it to turn it over via the front crankshaft pulley bolt? It should be easy to turn over with a normal length 1/2" ratchet (with the spark plugs out of it) . . . if it is really tough to turn over, then you have some sort of machining/clearance or incorrect parts combination issue. If this is the case, the LAST thing you actually want to do is force it to turn over and start it . . . that will pretty much ensure that it will be damaged.

Not trying to throw a bunch of fear into the conversation - just wanting to make sure you're chasing the correct problem and that you don't damage the engine IF (and it is an IF) there is an issue that needs to be addressed/sorted out before you attempt to run it.

Good luck,

B&S

[alanwoodieman]

is it my imagination or does the starter plate looks like it is making the starter at the wrong angle to the flywheel?

[51 MERC-CT]

It may or may not make any difference but on the '50 MERC. starter plate that I have, the bell housing mount surface and the starter mount surface are parallel with each other.

[Flatout]

You may have the wrong starter plate. The starter should be perpendicular (90 degrees) to the flywheel. I had the same problem 50 years ago.
Be sure the flywheel is the one for the late engine. If there's 2 things incorrect, it's even harder to fix.

[tubman]

IIRC, the only starter plate that did not have the starter mount parallel to the flywheel was the regular 8BA car plate. I just put one together, and the angle is obvious. One puzzling thing is that the starter plate in your picture has the oil pan reinforcement bracket, which I have never seen on a passenger car starter plate.

[PeteVS]

Will it spin the engine with the plugs taken out?

[jimTN]

I think Coopman has it. Having made that same mistake some years ago, I can assure you the early flywheel will not work with a starter on a late block. The only strange starter I am aware of on a 8BA type block is the one that is used with a Fordomatic.

[Init1]

It sure looks like the starter mounting surface of the starter plate is bent. The starter should
Mount straight on or the bendix gear will meet the ring gear at an angle and want to jamb.
And be sure the bearing in the front of the starter is good. They can go bad and cause the same sort of problem. If that's all good I'd say
You have the wrong flywheel or something is amiss inside the engine.

[rotorwrench]

Starter plates for early Ford type transmissions include the Mercury or truck half bells and associated stater plates. The Ford car plates and bell housings won't work unless you use the correct plate with the correct bell housing but they will only fit the narrow Borg Warner 4-bolt transmission pattern an lever operated clutch. The late 51 Merc cast iron bell is the only one of the 4-bolt transmission set ups that has the rotating clutch actuator. The lower attached image on post 1 looks like a Mecury starter plate with a ford truck cast iron half bell. The truck stuff should be kept with truck components. Oil pans are related in all this stuff since they are also part of the mix. I can't access the old flathead techno stuff for the bells & pans but it had a complete run down on what worked with what

[41LjH]

Update:
The jumper cables were getting hot so I took the battery out of my 41 and hooked it to the solenoid on the stand. Turned the toggle switches and it turned over. Looks like bad grounding and cheap jumper cables. Plan to start it next week. Thanks to everyone, your ideas put me on the right track!!

[38bill]

Sounds like a happy ending. Let us know how she runs.

[Binx]

I could be wrong but the pics look like an iron (truck) bell housing and a Merc starter plate. Those two won't work together.

Lonnie

And now that I see Rotorwrench already covered it... nevermind.

[51504bat]

Originally Posted by Binx

I could be wrong but the pics look like an iron (truck) bell housing and a Merc starter plate. Those two won't work together.

Lonnie

The starter plate IMO is from a Merc based on the bracket attached to it and by the 1/2 round cutout for the crank. The truck starter plates had a larger cutout that used a plate that used an additional plate to seal around the crank. That said I believe both the Merc plate for the stamped steel bell housing will work on the cast truck bell housing and vice versa.

[Ol' Ron]

Yep, they do. But?