The Ford Barn

[email protected] · 12-26-2021, 09:54 AM

Shimming axles I had to shim both axles is this going to work

Jim Brierley · 12-26-2021, 01:23 PM

Should be no problem. With or without shims, tighten nuts, run around the block a few times, re-tighten. Do this a few times to insure seating. Recheck from time to time.

Synchro909 · 12-26-2021, 04:26 PM

When fitting the rear hub with or without shims, it is VITAL that the axle, hub and shims if they are going to be used are absolutely free of any grease or oil. They are supposed to grip on the taper. Any lubrication (even the slightest amount) will prevent that happening.
BTW, check the condition of the inside of the hubs where the rollers run. There is usually wear at the axle nut end. If that is trough the hardening, replace the hubs or you will break an axle.

Pete · 12-26-2021, 07:08 PM

Shims will work long enough to get the car to a used car lot to sell it.

katy · 12-26-2021, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synchro909

When fitting the rear hub with or without shims, it is VITAL that the axle, hub and shims if they are going to be used are absolutely free of any grease or oil. They are supposed to grip on the taper. Any lubrication (even the slightest amount) will prevent that happening.
BTW, check the condition of the inside of the hubs where the rollers run. There is usually wear at the axle nut end. If that is through the hardening, replace the hubs or you will break an axle.

Ditto

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 12-27-2021, 06:45 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Shims will work long enough to get the car to a used car lot to sell it.

Exactly. This is another bandaid fix that has ruined many a good axle hub.

rotorwrench · 12-27-2021, 07:42 AM

Shim material is usually soft enough that a person would have to continually retorque the axle nut to keep the joint from coming loose. Any movement in the joint, no mater how miniscule, just allows the joint to get even more unwanted clearance over time. There are still good axles out there. Better to find them sooner than later.

WHN · 12-27-2021, 08:17 AM

I guess here to with the use of shims there are many different views.

Multiple shims being needed I think could be a real concern. However, using one, and torquing axel nut to 100 with a good key, I don’t believe should be a problem.

On the drivers side rear of the 29 that we have had for 42 years, things have been fine. Many miles, many years, checked a number of times, no issues.

Just keep checking the torque

Happy New Year!

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 12-27-2021, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHN

However, using one, and torquing axel nut to 100 with a good key, I don’t believe should be a problem.

On the drivers side rear of the 29 that we have had for 42 years, things have been fine. Many miles, many years, checked a number of times, no issues.

Just keep checking the torque

I guess we will agree to disagree with this based on what I see come thru my shop. From my perspective, (-and likely Pete's too) I have seen more hubs damaged and even axles because of using shims. Once the taper inside of the hub has been compromised by scarring or a scored edge, the hub should be discarded before the axle is further damaged. When scoring is introduced onto an axle shaft, stress risers are immediately created. Break an axle and tell us the outcome.

Not sure where the 100# torque specification comes from but that is not a number that Ford recommended. Furthermore, if you are checking the torque on a frequent basis for over those 42 years, then kudos to you however that is highly unlikely to be the protocol for most Model-A owners who seemingly do not even take the time to check oil and coolant levels on a regular basis, ...much less the lug nut torque on each wheel.

Pete · 12-27-2021, 03:39 PM

Different torque charts will have various numbers for that size axle nut but most will be around 200 ft. lb. or more.

WHN · 12-27-2021, 04:13 PM

Check Les Andrew’s book. Rear axel nuts 125 ft/lbs.

I don’t know what Ford spec might say, but I have been told for many years 100 was the right number. Has worked for me for years.

Using a shim to stop the brake drum from hitting the backing plate has been used by owners for as long as I have been around Model A’s.

If the axel is not really worn, why not. Most of these cars are not driven hard or many miles.

When I had our cars brake system completely overhauled 5,000 plus miles ago. Mechanic used one shim on drivers side axel. No problem as of now. I check torque on rear axels every 500 miles. Not a big job. Gives me something that I can still do.

As with many other things, we can all have different views.

Enjoy.

nkaminar · 12-27-2021, 04:25 PM

I don't think the Ford dealers owned torque wrenches but I believe that the instructions were to use a long wrench. In any case the nuts should be tight. Plus I agree that the hubs should be put on dry. I have used some Loctite after cleaning with acetone, the red thread locker that is designed to be removable.

100 foot-pounds is probably too little and 200 foot-pounds may be too much. I have settled on 150 foot-pounds and then tighten more to put in the cotter key.

wwirz · 12-27-2021, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkaminar

I don't think the Ford dealers owned torque wrenches but I believe that the instructions were to use a long wrench. In any case the nuts should be tight. Plus I agree that the hubs should be put on dry. I have used some Loctite after cleaning with acetone, the red thread locker that is designed to be removable.

100 foot-pounds is probably too little and 200 foot-pounds may be too much. I have settled on 150 foot-pounds and then tighten more to put in the cotter key.

Just know that the axle drives the hub from the taper fit not the axle key. A clean, oil free taper and hub are essential to assembling this correctly. I usually "blue" these components and make sure that I have at least 85% contact between the tapers.

gdmn852 · 12-28-2021, 01:23 PM

Hello ,post number 12 answered my question before I asked it that being using thread blocker on axle shim .Thank You.

gdmn852 · 12-28-2021, 01:30 PM

Also on my particular car I think the po handled the rear axle similar to the front spindles they tightened and backed off two slots on nut .Probably saw bearings in rear hub and thought that what they were supposed to do. This car has the Boling hydraulic brake system on it, this probably damaged the new hubs, was also missing rear seals and snap rings.

[email protected] · 12-28-2021, 05:26 PM

Used Loctite bearing mount when I shimmed my axles

Flathead · 12-28-2021, 05:58 PM

I was told by an old drag racer that a little chalk dust on clean, dry, well fitted axles was the hot tip. This guy was also a skilled machinist.

gdmn852 · 12-28-2021, 11:10 PM

Hello again, did a search on axle shim on the forum , many posts on this subject. I believe in my case the shims were added as it was converted to hydraulic brakes and without out shimming, the brake drums rub against the back plates this seems to be common on hydraulic conversions .The alternative may be remove depth of the drums but will have to check to see if the brake shoes also have clearance, along with the seal not hitting inner hub.another possibility is to put a shim or spacer between the hub and drum as they are separate pieces on the Boiling conversion.

12-26-2021, 09:54 AM	#1
[email protected] Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2021 Location: Auburn Maine Posts: 23	Shimming axles Shimming axles I had to shim both axles is this going to work

12-26-2021, 01:23 PM	#2
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,085	Re: Shimming axles Should be no problem. With or without shims, tighten nuts, run around the block a few times, re-tighten. Do this a few times to insure seating. Recheck from time to time.

12-26-2021, 04:26 PM	#3
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Shimming axles When fitting the rear hub with or without shims, it is VITAL that the axle, hub and shims if they are going to be used are absolutely free of any grease or oil. They are supposed to grip on the taper. Any lubrication (even the slightest amount) will prevent that happening. BTW, check the condition of the inside of the hubs where the rollers run. There is usually wear at the axle nut end. If that is trough the hardening, replace the hubs or you will break an axle. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

12-26-2021, 07:08 PM	#4
Pete Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,407	Re: Shimming axles Shims will work long enough to get the car to a used car lot to sell it.

12-27-2021, 07:42 AM	#7
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: Shimming axles Shim material is usually soft enough that a person would have to continually retorque the axle nut to keep the joint from coming loose. Any movement in the joint, no mater how miniscule, just allows the joint to get even more unwanted clearance over time. There are still good axles out there. Better to find them sooner than later.

12-27-2021, 08:17 AM	#8
WHN Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Connecticut Shoreline Posts: 1,821	Re: Shimming axles I guess here to with the use of shims there are many different views. Multiple shims being needed I think could be a real concern. However, using one, and torquing axel nut to 100 with a good key, I don’t believe should be a problem. On the drivers side rear of the 29 that we have had for 42 years, things have been fine. Many miles, many years, checked a number of times, no issues. Just keep checking the torque Happy New Year!

12-27-2021, 03:39 PM	#10
Pete Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,407	Re: Shimming axles Different torque charts will have various numbers for that size axle nut but most will be around 200 ft. lb. or more.

12-27-2021, 04:13 PM	#11
WHN Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Connecticut Shoreline Posts: 1,821	Re: Shimming axles Check Les Andrew’s book. Rear axel nuts 125 ft/lbs. I don’t know what Ford spec might say, but I have been told for many years 100 was the right number. Has worked for me for years. Using a shim to stop the brake drum from hitting the backing plate has been used by owners for as long as I have been around Model A’s. If the axel is not really worn, why not. Most of these cars are not driven hard or many miles. When I had our cars brake system completely overhauled 5,000 plus miles ago. Mechanic used one shim on drivers side axel. No problem as of now. I check torque on rear axels every 500 miles. Not a big job. Gives me something that I can still do. As with many other things, we can all have different views. Enjoy. Last edited by WHN; 12-27-2021 at 04:30 PM.

12-27-2021, 04:25 PM	#12
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,899	Re: Shimming axles I don't think the Ford dealers owned torque wrenches but I believe that the instructions were to use a long wrench. In any case the nuts should be tight. Plus I agree that the hubs should be put on dry. I have used some Loctite after cleaning with acetone, the red thread locker that is designed to be removable. 100 foot-pounds is probably too little and 200 foot-pounds may be too much. I have settled on 150 foot-pounds and then tighten more to put in the cotter key. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

12-28-2021, 01:23 PM	#14
gdmn852 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Erie Pa Posts: 691	Re: Shimming axles Hello ,post number 12 answered my question before I asked it that being using thread blocker on axle shim .Thank You.

12-28-2021, 01:30 PM	#15
gdmn852 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Erie Pa Posts: 691	Re: Shimming axles Also on my particular car I think the po handled the rear axle similar to the front spindles they tightened and backed off two slots on nut .Probably saw bearings in rear hub and thought that what they were supposed to do. This car has the Boling hydraulic brake system on it, this probably damaged the new hubs, was also missing rear seals and snap rings.

12-28-2021, 05:26 PM	#16
[email protected] Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2021 Location: Auburn Maine Posts: 23	Re: Shimming axles Used Loctite bearing mount when I shimmed my axles

12-28-2021, 05:58 PM	#17
Flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 1,497	Re: Shimming axles I was told by an old drag racer that a little chalk dust on clean, dry, well fitted axles was the hot tip. This guy was also a skilled machinist.

12-28-2021, 11:10 PM	#18
gdmn852 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Erie Pa Posts: 691	Re: Shimming axles Hello again, did a search on axle shim on the forum , many posts on this subject. I believe in my case the shims were added as it was converted to hydraulic brakes and without out shimming, the brake drums rub against the back plates this seems to be common on hydraulic conversions .The alternative may be remove depth of the drums but will have to check to see if the brake shoes also have clearance, along with the seal not hitting inner hub.another possibility is to put a shim or spacer between the hub and drum as they are separate pieces on the Boiling conversion.