The Ford Barn

ronn · 07-21-2022, 10:21 AM

Im pretty familiar with model As but not so much with the v8s.

Just bought a 35 phaeton and a 36 wagon. What are the start up procedure with these engines? what should I be concerned with?

cars have sat 40-50 yrs in dry storage. engines are free......

will be picking them up in about a month.

thanks!

Charlie Stephens · 07-21-2022, 10:49 AM

If there is someone that lives in NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ they might be able to stop by and help (hint, put a real general location in). Other than that, read the owner's manual which is available as a reproduction.

Charlie Stephens

ronn · 07-21-2022, 11:13 AM

thanks for the laugh Charlie!

Mt Laurel 08054

Tim Ayers · 07-21-2022, 11:37 AM

More than likely, the gas tanks will need to be dropped and boiled out and all fuel related items will need to be replaced or rebuilt.

Old gas turns into an almost super glue like vanish.

Fresh oil (obvious) and the cleaning of the points or a rebuild of the distributor will be needed as well. Also, more than likely, new plug wires and fresh spark plugs

You can get them running with a small gas tank mounted somewhere in the engine bay until the tank and fuel lines can be addressed. I'd get some fresh fuel pumps from Charlie NY or Third Gen as well.

ronn · 07-22-2022, 05:26 AM

thx Tim- yes a bit unfamiliar with the distributers...........

A bones · 07-22-2022, 06:12 AM

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Welcome to Early V8. ( We play a little looser here, than the A forum. )
Very Good of you to ask first beforehand.
After the tank and fuel supply....
( I always recommend this be done outdoors, we don't need the fumes, Also establish the locations of fire extinguishers and exits, best to have a plan you don't need than to need what you don't have )
....has been addressed, let's pull all the spark plugs.
with fresh oil in the crankcase, squirt oil into the cylinders. Leaving the plugs out for now, just get cranking to lube the rings and cylinder walls and bring the crankcase oil through the engine ( we can clean up latter )
Having taken those steps I'm confident that you can proceed. Just keep us posted on progress.

chap52 · 07-22-2022, 07:01 AM

Starting one of these babies up after a long sleep can be tedious but hearing them start makes it worth the extra precautionary steps. Kina like childbirth, I think???
I would also flush fuel lines and pull the top off of the carb for a carb cleaner flush and check for junk in there. Had a cute fuzzy spider nest in one once.
Don't plan on jumping in and taking it for a spin without also checking the brakes. A test drive is fun, stopping after a test drive is better. You know this if you have had "A's". "Enjoy the adventure..." Chap

ronn · 07-22-2022, 12:40 PM

thanks gents- good points.......esp the fire extinguisher!

ronn · 07-24-2022, 06:29 AM

chap- what type of brakes are we dealing with for 1935-36?

chap52 · 07-24-2022, 06:53 AM

Sorry, I never worked on '35 brakes. Looks like hydraulic with adjusting cams from this You Tube video. Thanks for asking, now I know. Chap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixIQiS-8jSM

Bored&Stroked · 07-24-2022, 06:55 AM

If the cars have sat that long, then the original oil will may have turned into a gooey mess.

I would not turn it over or attempt to start an engine like this until I'd pulled the oil pan, cleaned out any sludge and other crap in the bottom of it and did the same to the oil pump. You don't want the oil pump to attempt to pull that crap into it and then push it into the bearings - which can ruin them.

Also, don't just drain the oil-pan and throw nice-new detergent oil back in. Modern oils will loosen up any crap that is sitting in the pan and then it all gets pumped through the bearings.

I recently bought a car that had sat since 1959 (indoors). I pulled the pan and you should have seen how the oil had separated into a top-layer of clear gold looking stuff and a bottom layer of thick gunk. This is what non-detergent oil does - and who knows what was last put in these engines.

Also, while I have the pan off, I pull a main cap and a rod cap and give the bearings a good visual inspection - so I have some idea as to the condition of the lower end.

Another thing I do is pull the heads, check the bores, inspect the valves, etc.. If it was sitting for a long time (especially in an un-heated location), then there will probably be rust on the valves/seats that were open. I try to clean everything up, oil the bores, turn it over to make sure no valves are stuck (very common), then put new head gaskets back on it.

All of this is a bit of work, maybe a weekend or so . . . but it is the best way to go about getting engines that have sat for a long time - checked out and ready to run.

Best of luck!
B&S

Bored&Stroked · 07-24-2022, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronn

chap- what type of brakes are we dealing with for 1935-36?

The original brakes were mechanical - and if they're correctly setup and the parts are in good condition, they work quite well (up to about 55 mph or so).

If you plan on taking these cars on the road and especially at higher speeds, then one should consider the brakes and potentially "upgrade" them to later hydraulics.

I rebuilt the mechanical brakes on my 32 Cabriolet and drove the car for a couple years with them - they were just fine (until I wanted to take the car on the highway/freeway . . . that is when I bit the bullet and upgraded the complete brake system, shocks, etc..)

Ramblin Reck · 07-25-2022, 11:23 AM

For what it is worth, watch several episodes of Vice Grip Garage on YouTube. Derek is Entertaining, Educational and Enlightening!

GB SISSON · 07-25-2022, 03:11 PM

And I for one would love to see a photo or two of these beauties.

Bubsyouruncle · 07-29-2022, 05:30 PM

IMHO, when set up well you can lock the brakes at near 60 mph. At least in my '32 45 I could. I think you youngsters have gotten used to ABS and other great improvements in braking capabilities.

Never, ever, closer to the car in front than you can stop. My father's most wonderful cautions.

ronn · 07-30-2022, 05:43 AM

thank you fellas. Much appreciate the info, esp on the oil and cleaning everything out.

only about another 30 days till I getem!

ronn · 07-30-2022, 05:48 AM

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/9yUAA...KE/s-l1600.jpg

this is the phaeton- I have never seen the wagon. it was a "grab bag"

have bought from this seller before and he was always honest with his descriptions

DavidG · 07-30-2022, 06:22 AM

The phaeton looks quite complete with its original top irons, bows, and outside door handles; all good signs. There's no wind wing evident in the photo so I can't ell if it is the early or late version.

The vulnerabilities of '35-'36 phaetons are the floor pan, especially in front of the rear seat and under the driver's feet, and the wood belt rail on the upper quarter and rear panels. (I've had three of the former and two of the latter over the years and still have one of each.)

ronn · 07-30-2022, 03:39 PM

yes David, was told drivers floor needed some work, but otherwise in pretty good shape. we'll see.

CaliforniaBorn36 · 07-30-2022, 04:26 PM

If brakes are adjusted properly, there is sufficient material on the shoes and the drums are round, the only difference between mechanical or hydraulic brakes is effort. It just takes more effort to apply mechanical brakes. Otherwise think basic physics for the rest, what stops you is the friction of the brake pad to the drum, (same for both mechanical and hydraulic), and contact patch of tire to roadway.

So really to improve stopping you need to enlarge the contact patch of the tire on the roadway.

Please feel free to tell me what I got wrong.

BTW, not taking away what others said about start up procedure.

07-21-2022, 10:21 AM	#1
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,787	new to the v-8s....... Im pretty familiar with model As but not so much with the v8s. Just bought a 35 phaeton and a 36 wagon. What are the start up procedure with these engines? what should I be concerned with? cars have sat 40-50 yrs in dry storage. engines are free...... will be picking them up in about a month. thanks!

07-21-2022, 10:49 AM	#2
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,032	Re: new to the v-8s....... If there is someone that lives in NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ they might be able to stop by and help (hint, put a real general location in). Other than that, read the owner's manual which is available as a reproduction. Charlie Stephens

07-21-2022, 11:13 AM	#3
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,787	Re: new to the v-8s....... thanks for the laugh Charlie! Mt Laurel 08054

07-21-2022, 11:37 AM	#4
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,179	Re: new to the v-8s....... More than likely, the gas tanks will need to be dropped and boiled out and all fuel related items will need to be replaced or rebuilt. Old gas turns into an almost super glue like vanish. Fresh oil (obvious) and the cleaning of the points or a rebuild of the distributor will be needed as well. Also, more than likely, new plug wires and fresh spark plugs You can get them running with a small gas tank mounted somewhere in the engine bay until the tank and fuel lines can be addressed. I'd get some fresh fuel pumps from Charlie NY or Third Gen as well.

07-22-2022, 05:26 AM	#5
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,787	Re: new to the v-8s....... thx Tim- yes a bit unfamiliar with the distributers...........

07-22-2022, 06:12 AM	#6
A bones Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: CLAYTON DE Posts: 1,283	Re: new to the v-8s....... Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Welcome to Early V8. ( We play a little looser here, than the A forum. ) Very Good of you to ask first beforehand. After the tank and fuel supply.... ( I always recommend this be done outdoors, we don't need the fumes, Also establish the locations of fire extinguishers and exits, best to have a plan you don't need than to need what you don't have ) ....has been addressed, let's pull all the spark plugs. with fresh oil in the crankcase, squirt oil into the cylinders. Leaving the plugs out for now, just get cranking to lube the rings and cylinder walls and bring the crankcase oil through the engine ( we can clean up latter ) Having taken those steps I'm confident that you can proceed. Just keep us posted on progress. __________________ Enjoy yer day. Tom Hate can't fix what it started.

07-22-2022, 07:01 AM	#7
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: new to the v-8s....... Starting one of these babies up after a long sleep can be tedious but hearing them start makes it worth the extra precautionary steps. Kina like childbirth, I think??? I would also flush fuel lines and pull the top off of the carb for a carb cleaner flush and check for junk in there. Had a cute fuzzy spider nest in one once. Don't plan on jumping in and taking it for a spin without also checking the brakes. A test drive is fun, stopping after a test drive is better. You know this if you have had "A's". "Enjoy the adventure..." Chap

07-22-2022, 12:40 PM	#8
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,787	Re: new to the v-8s....... thanks gents- good points.......esp the fire extinguisher!

07-24-2022, 06:29 AM	#9
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,787	Re: new to the v-8s....... chap- what type of brakes are we dealing with for 1935-36?

07-24-2022, 06:53 AM	#10
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: new to the v-8s....... Sorry, I never worked on '35 brakes. Looks like hydraulic with adjusting cams from this You Tube video. Thanks for asking, now I know. Chap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixIQiS-8jSM

07-24-2022, 06:55 AM	#11
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,064	Re: new to the v-8s....... If the cars have sat that long, then the original oil will may have turned into a gooey mess. I would not turn it over or attempt to start an engine like this until I'd pulled the oil pan, cleaned out any sludge and other crap in the bottom of it and did the same to the oil pump. You don't want the oil pump to attempt to pull that crap into it and then push it into the bearings - which can ruin them. Also, don't just drain the oil-pan and throw nice-new detergent oil back in. Modern oils will loosen up any crap that is sitting in the pan and then it all gets pumped through the bearings. I recently bought a car that had sat since 1959 (indoors). I pulled the pan and you should have seen how the oil had separated into a top-layer of clear gold looking stuff and a bottom layer of thick gunk. This is what non-detergent oil does - and who knows what was last put in these engines. Also, while I have the pan off, I pull a main cap and a rod cap and give the bearings a good visual inspection - so I have some idea as to the condition of the lower end. Another thing I do is pull the heads, check the bores, inspect the valves, etc.. If it was sitting for a long time (especially in an un-heated location), then there will probably be rust on the valves/seats that were open. I try to clean everything up, oil the bores, turn it over to make sure no valves are stuck (very common), then put new head gaskets back on it. All of this is a bit of work, maybe a weekend or so . . . but it is the best way to go about getting engines that have sat for a long time - checked out and ready to run. Best of luck! B&S

07-25-2022, 11:23 AM	#13
Ramblin Reck Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 245	Re: new to the v-8s....... For what it is worth, watch several episodes of Vice Grip Garage on YouTube. Derek is Entertaining, Educational and Enlightening! __________________ "Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems!" ROGER, WILCO, OUT!

07-25-2022, 03:11 PM	#14
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 4,930	Re: new to the v-8s....... And I for one would love to see a photo or two of these beauties. __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

07-29-2022, 05:30 PM	#15
Bubsyouruncle Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Gurnee, Illinois Posts: 270	Re: new to the v-8s....... IMHO, when set up well you can lock the brakes at near 60 mph. At least in my '32 45 I could. I think you youngsters have gotten used to ABS and other great improvements in braking capabilities. Never, ever, closer to the car in front than you can stop. My father's most wonderful cautions.

07-30-2022, 05:43 AM	#16
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,787	Re: new to the v-8s....... thank you fellas. Much appreciate the info, esp on the oil and cleaning everything out. only about another 30 days till I getem!

07-30-2022, 05:48 AM	#17
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,787	Re: new to the v-8s....... https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/9yUAA...KE/s-l1600.jpg this is the phaeton- I have never seen the wagon. it was a "grab bag" have bought from this seller before and he was always honest with his descriptions

07-30-2022, 06:22 AM	#18
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: new to the v-8s....... The phaeton looks quite complete with its original top irons, bows, and outside door handles; all good signs. There's no wind wing evident in the photo so I can't ell if it is the early or late version. The vulnerabilities of '35-'36 phaetons are the floor pan, especially in front of the rear seat and under the driver's feet, and the wood belt rail on the upper quarter and rear panels. (I've had three of the former and two of the latter over the years and still have one of each.)

07-30-2022, 03:39 PM	#19
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,787	Re: new to the v-8s....... yes David, was told drivers floor needed some work, but otherwise in pretty good shape. we'll see.

07-30-2022, 04:26 PM	#20
CaliforniaBorn36 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 427	Re: new to the v-8s....... If brakes are adjusted properly, there is sufficient material on the shoes and the drums are round, the only difference between mechanical or hydraulic brakes is effort. It just takes more effort to apply mechanical brakes. Otherwise think basic physics for the rest, what stops you is the friction of the brake pad to the drum, (same for both mechanical and hydraulic), and contact patch of tire to roadway. So really to improve stopping you need to enlarge the contact patch of the tire on the roadway. Please feel free to tell me what I got wrong. BTW, not taking away what others said about start up procedure.