T-5 conversion panning

[outsider347]

I am planning to covert my 40 Tudor to a T-5 setup. Yes! Lots of info here, & reading my way thru it

I tried to find the George Greenbaugh (eBay
ID community-chest) adaptor plate drawing , without success

Anyone have any info?

tks

[38bill]

Check out this thread. It has a drawing and info on using a adaptor plate.

https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthrea...2563&showall=1

[Ol' Ron]

This is npt an in expensive project no matter which way you go. depending which style engine block to what rear axle will determined the finish cost. The 8ba block will be the cheapest adapter and an upgraded rear axle will replace a weal rear axle problem. however thid isn't cheep either. converting the T-5 to torque output is another cost. Your in the right place to find out what you need, and how much of this you can do your self.. There is NO easy or cheao way to do this.
Gramps.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by outsider347

I am planning to covert my 40 Tudor to a T-5 setup. Yes! Lots of info here, & reading my way thru it

I tried to find the George Greenbaugh (eBay
ID community-chest) adaptor plate drawing , without success

Anyone have any info?

tks

"outsider" .....Once you complete your conversion, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, if you understand and follow-through with CORRECT choices of parts, overall gear ratio combinations, and having in mind exactly what it is that you are trying to gain by this swap, you should thoroughly enjoy the results and drivability of your '40. But mind you, if you get any of these points wrong, you can wind-up with a really disappointing combination that can actually make you wish that you had never started the modification. DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

You did not mention exactly which engine you are working with, but we'll assume that it is your original '40 engine, and there is NOTHING WRONG with that choice. There are parts and pieces out there to easily adapt a T5 to your engine.

I will assume that you intend to replace the early Ford "banjo" rear end and torque tube with some sort of 'open drive' rear end like a Ford 8", for instance. Today, the Ford 8" is easy to find and easily up to handling the power and torque that you will have from even a modified flathead engine. Plus, replacement parts for an 8" are available at thousands of locations. Unless you are well-experienced and well-equipped to fabricate the hardware required to PROPERLY mount that rear end in your '40 chassis, I would suggest a mounting kit such as Chassis Engineering's "AS-2016CG", or "AS-2014" without springs and shocks, both available at Summit Racing, as well as others.....link BELOW.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cie-as-2016cg


You will also find it necessary to remove the CENTER box-member that ties the two X-rails together, as well as being a mount for the FRONT wishbone ball. Chassis Engineering also has a kit which serves as a mount for your wishbone ends which will have to be split, as well as a mounting point for your rear transmission mount.

One of the most important aspects of a T5 swap is understanding that all T5s are not the same. If you select a T5 with one of the wrong gear ratio combinations, you will be very disappointed with the performance after the swap. You should remember that the basic T5 transmission was used in some very underpowered, light vehicles. As such, the transmissions used in these vehicles needed an advantage of very low, and widely-spaced gear ratios. This is not what you need for your reasonably powered and relatively heavy '40 Ford. Your rear end ratio comes into consideration here also. For a vehicle like a '40 Ford that is going to be street-driven and NOT a racer, I would consider any rear end ratio between 3.50 to 3.90. Along with that, I would consider ONLY a T5 that had likely come out of a Camaro/Firebird with the 2.95 1st gear ratio, known as the 'close ratio' gear set. This gear set/transmission can be found in the early ('83-'87) Camaro as a "Non World Class" T5, and in later Camaros as a "World Class" T5. There are people that will tell you not to mess with the NWC T5s, but there is not a darned thing wrong with a NWC trans. The gears are just about as strong, and the only real difference between the NWC & WC T5s is that they use different bearing types, and the synchronizers are made of some sort of man-made friction surface rather than brass rings in the NWC T5.

Everyone is going to tell you that you want to use a T5 out of an "S-10" Chevy truck. That trans will have the worst of all the gear ratio combinations. First gear will be either a 4.03 or 3.76 ratio, and that will be like a useless 'GRANNY' gear in your '40. You will literally end-up starting off in 2nd gear at stop signs. Plus, these gear ratios make these the least torque resistant. What you DO need is an "S-10" rear shifter HOUSING and SHIFTER LID. This is the rear housing that has the shifter location all the way forward against the rear of the transmission main case. The shifter lid is the accompanying transmission top that contains the shorter shift rod. This combination puts the shifter the farthest forward of all T5 shifters. These S-10 rear housings can still be found on $25 junk transmissions if you get lucky, or on eBay just about any time. Both pieces are a direct bolt-on to ANY T5 main case.

With something like a 3.90 rear end and the 2.95 1st gear set, taking off from a stop will be so smooth through the close ratio gears that 5th gear (Overdrive) will seem like merely one more gear, rather than a big drop in RPM like an O/D usually does. Do your homework. I will help with answers in any way that I can.

You should be aware that using any of the adapter plates usually involves using a Ford-type T5, most all of which have a 3.35 1st gear ratio in the Ford close ratio gear sets. Also, the Ford transmissions tend to have input shafts of different lengths, making it a little more difficult to decide on adapter plate thickness. And remember, the torque rating goes DOWN the higher the NUMBER in the 1st gear's ratio. Using the Camaro gear sets in a Chevy main case makes use of a single bell-type adapter like shown in the very worthwhile, comprehensive link BELOW. DD


https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/ad...ford-flathead/

.

[outsider347]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

"outsider" .....Once you complete your conversion, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, if you understand and follow-through with CORRECT choices of parts, overall gear ratio combinations, and having in mind exactly what it is that you are trying to gain by this swap, you should thoroughly enjoy the results and drivability of your '40. But mind you, if you get any of these points wrong, you can wind-up with a really disappointing combination that can actually make you wish that you had never started the modification. DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

You did not mention exactly which engine you are working with, but we'll assume that it is your original '40 engine, and there is NOTHING WRONG with that choice. There are parts and pieces out there to easily adapt a T5 to your engine.

I will assume that you intend to replace the early Ford "banjo" rear end and torque tube with some sort of 'open drive' rear end like a Ford 8", for instance. Today, the Ford 8" is easy to find and easily up to handling the power and torque that you will have from even a modified flathead engine. Plus, replacement parts for an 8" are available at thousands of locations. Unless you are well-experienced and well-equipped to fabricate the hardware required to PROPERLY mount that rear end in your '40 chassis, I would suggest a mounting kit such as Chassis Engineering's "AS-2016CG", or "AS-2014" without springs and shocks, both available at Summit Racing, as well as others.....link BELOW.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cie-as-2016cg


You will also find it necessary to remove the CENTER box-member that ties the two X-rails together, as well as being a mount for the FRONT wishbone ball. Chassis Engineering also has a kit which serves as a mount for your wishbone ends which will have to be split, as well as a mounting point for your rear transmission mount.

One of the most important aspects of a T5 swap is understanding that all T5s are not the same. If you select a T5 with one of the wrong gear ratio combinations, you will be very disappointed with the performance after the swap. You should remember that the basic T5 transmission was used in some very underpowered, light vehicles. As such, the transmissions used in these vehicles needed an advantage of very low, and widely-spaced gear ratios. This is not what you need for your reasonably powered and relatively heavy '40 Ford. Your rear end ratio comes into consideration here also. For a vehicle like a '40 Ford that is going to be street-driven and NOT a racer, I would consider any rear end ratio between 3.50 to 3.90. Along with that, I would consider ONLY a T5 that had likely come out of a Camaro/Firebird with the 2.95 1st gear ratio, known as the 'close ratio' gear set. This gear set/transmission can be found in the early ('83-'87) Camaro as a "Non World Class" T5, and in later Camaros as a "World Class" T5. There are people that will tell you not to mess with the NWC T5s, but there is not a darned thing wrong with a NWC trans. The gears are just about as strong, and the only real difference between the NWC & WC T5s is that they use different bearing types, and the synchronizers are made of some sort of man-made friction surface rather than brass rings in the NWC T5.

Everyone is going to tell you that you want to use a T5 out of an "S-10" Chevy truck. That trans will have the worst of all the gear ratio combinations. First gear will be either a 4.03 or 3.76 ratio, and that will be like a useless 'GRANNY' gear in your '40. You will literally end-up starting off in 2nd gear at stop signs. Plus, these gear ratios make these the least torque resistant. What you DO need is an "S-10" rear shifter HOUSING and SHIFTER LID. This is the rear housing that has the shifter location all the way forward against the rear of the transmission main case. The shifter lid is the accompanying transmission top that contains the shorter shift rod. This combination puts the shifter the farthest forward of all T5 shifters. These S-10 rear housings can still be found on $25 junk transmissions if you get lucky, or on eBay just about any time. Both pieces are a direct bolt-on to ANY T5 main case.

With something like a 3.90 rear end and the 2.95 1st gear set, taking off from a stop will be so smooth through the close ratio gears that 5th gear (Overdrive) will seem like merely one more gear, rather than a big drop in RPM like an O/D usually does. Do your homework. I will help with answers in any way that I can.

You should be aware that using any of the adapter plates usually involves using a Ford-type T5, most all of which have a 3.35 1st gear ratio in the Ford close ratio gear sets. Also, the Ford transmissions tend to have input shafts of different lengths, making it a little more difficult to decide on adapter plate thickness. And remember, the torque rating goes DOWN the higher the NUMBER in the 1st gear's ratio. Using the Camaro gear sets in a Chevy main case makes use of a single bell-type adapter like shown in the very worthwhile, comprehensive link BELOW. DD


https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/ad...ford-flathead/

.

DD Thanks so much for your reply. I have read all (I think) of your & others previous postings on this subject

Engine: Street driven only. Planning to use my 2nd gen engine (221) Runs really well, but hemorrhaging oil. In the process of removal, re gasket, new cam, 2/2, 94 setup. While its out...evaluate the mechanicals

I'm thinking the T-5 update to be next winters proj, Plan is to start to locate the parts I need.

So any other suggestions... much appreciated

[outsider347]

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DD
One more question please.

Since this may be the most difficult puzzle part to locate, What transmission would you suggest that I look for?
Tks
ed

[blucar]

I'm sorry, but, converting an EFV8 to any kind of a transmission other that a style similar to the original trans seems to me to be a big waste of time and money to accomplish nothing.
If I was going to do a trans conversion on my '36 from the column shift and '48 Columbia it has had for over 60 years I would convert it to a C-4 automatic. A friend of mine did the C-4 conversion to his '36 sedan so his wife could drive it.

I converted my '39 conv to a SBC and a 700R4 trans, converted my '37 GMC from an Olds 230 CID flathead to a '68 292 6 cyln with a 2004R trans. Both conversions work great, made the vehicles very user friendly.

[tubman]

That's odd. I'll bet I have talked to at least a dozen folks who have done the conversion and everyone of them was very happy with the conversion. I'd do mine too, except ,I'm in the process of installing an OD setup.

[outsider347]

Originally Posted by blucar

I'm sorry, but, converting an EFV8 to any kind of a transmission other that a style similar to the original trans seems to me to be a big waste of time and money to accomplish nothing.
If I was going to do a trans conversion on my '36 from the column shift and '48 Columbia it has had for over 60 years I would convert it to a C-4 automatic. A friend of mine did the C-4 conversion to his '36 sedan so his wife could drive it.

I converted my '39 conv to a SBC and a 700R4 trans, converted my '37 GMC from an Olds 230 CID flathead to a '68 292 6 cyln with a 2004R trans. Both conversions work great, made the vehicles very user friendly.

Hmmm Maybe I need to look at this differently Wondering what a functioning Columbia would cost for my car?

I want to keep my F.H.

I want a smooth shifting floor shift

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by outsider347

I want to keep my F.H.

I want a smooth shifting floor shift

Just watching here outsider347, but what is it that you WANT from your '40?

[outsider347]

Originally Posted by VeryTangled

Just watching here outsider347, but what is it that you WANT from your '40?

I want to keep my 2nd gen 221 FH. Runs good . Need to fix the oil leaks, while its out, check dimensional specs.......dependable street driver

I want a floor shift

I'd like to travel the car, 50-65 MPH


BTW checking the" for sales" here. Complete Columbia...$4600.00


I think that I'm vacillating between wanting to stay somewhat traditional and wanting to use updated equipment....Hope that this makes some sense

[VeryTangled]

And where are the time and budget concerns?

Stock V-8's do 65 unless there are other issues. Stopping... not so much.

[outsider347]

Originally Posted by VeryTangled

And where are the time and budget concerns?

Stock V-8's do 65 unless there are other issues. Stopping... not so much.

At my age, I buy what I want

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by outsider347

Hmmm Maybe I need to look at this differently Wondering what a functioning Columbia would cost for my car?

I want to keep my F.H.

I want a smooth shifting floor shift

outsider .....You seem to have a pretty good handle on what you WANT. Keep your flatty, and you want a floor shifter!

That in itself pretty-much rules out a Columbia, as they don't use a floor shifter. In fact, all you gain is a fairly easy installation, an O/D (overdrive) that some might say is a little fragile, certainly not cheap, and they have a bunch of hoses and plumbing to deal with.

With a T5, you have a better chance of dialing-in the gear ratios most-condusive to a happy outcome. My suggestions? Find a NWC (NON WORLD CLASS) V8 Camaro/Firebird T5 from '83-'87. They show-up at swap meets and on Craigslist quite often. The CORRECT trans will have a 26-spline input shaft, which identifies the close-ratio, 2.95 1st gear set. Of course, we're talking about a main case that has the Chevrolet Muncie-type bolt pattern. The correct trans will have 27-spline output shaft. The main reason for the NWC is that it has provision for a mechanical speedometer drive. It can be ADAPTED to work on the Camaro main shaft. IF YOU SUBSTITUTE AN "S-10" main shaft, no adapting required. Throw a rebuild kit in the transmission and you're ready to go. The link BELOW shows a comprehensive rebuild on exactly the combination we're talking about....the V8 Camaro main case/gears with the adapted "S-10" tail shaft housing and shift lid which moves the shifter forward to the max. Read the info in this link BELOW! I'll answer any questions you may have. DD

https://lugnutz65chevystepside.weebl...n-rebuild.html

The trans that you should end-up with, below.




.

[Ol' Ron]

My Problem is, I can't afford allot of the good stuff, or expensive stuff. If i can't find it in a junk yard or make it, I can;t do it so I do what I can, with what I have. I try to help people this way. Setting up a tripple set of 97's on a polished Edelbrock intake cost ove 2 grand. Only the very few can afford this. The reason the flathead and most other " hot rod" Is fading into the past. I lived at the right time.
Gramps
PS Lov all youse guyes,\

[flatmotor40]

I made mine easy just put a 36% Mitchell OD in just replace torque tube and go

[blucar]

I don't understand Coops' comment about a floor shift with a Columbia. The Columbia don't care if the vehicle has a floor or column shift. The shifting of the Columbia's is mechanical over vacuum on early units and electric over vacuum on the '42-48's.

[johndee138]

Im running a flathead with a T170 RTS 4 speed. T tube, 3.78 R&P & a Columbia OD.
I'm very happy with this set up

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by blucar

I don't understand Coops' comment about a floor shift with a Columbia. The Columbia don't care if the vehicle has a floor or column shift. The shifting of the Columbia's is mechanical over vacuum on early units and electric over vacuum on the '42-48's.

Just that merely installing a Columbia is NOT going to get him the FLOOR SHIFTER that he desires. DD
.

[flatmotor40]

I put the Mitchell cause I didn't want anything in floor