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Old 05-21-2022, 10:46 PM   #1
jefeingold
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Default Tri-power Linkage - SBF

I have an August 1964 Buddy Bar/Ford Performance manifold with the correct Holley 2300 two-barrel List 2867 and 2868 carbs and the proper linkages.

The problem is that if I get the carbs all opening at WOT in synch, the secondary carbs begin to open at about 20% throttle in the primary. If I adjust the linkage to get the secondaries opening at the desired 40-50% of primary throttle, the secondaries don't reach WOT. I can't find a sweet spot where the secondaries open at 40-50% primary, and still all reach WOT at the same time. It's making me crazy.

Any suggestions?
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Old 05-22-2022, 05:45 AM   #2
KULTULZ
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Exclamation Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

... you know I got a little misty seeing that setup ...

Sure brings back memories ...

Anywho, this is the GURU concerning TRI-POWER -

Joe Bunetic
65 Concord Drive
Fair View Heights, Illinois 62206
618 397-3580

My understanding is that he has no website and can only be contacted by phone usually around 1800 HRS CST.

Now I have a suggestion for diagnosis but would rather keep it in my knickers until you can hopefully contact him.

Now the catch here is that you are required to get back here on this thread with what you found out.
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Old 05-22-2022, 10:37 AM   #3
scicala
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Default Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

The only way to make the primary carb open further, before the secondary carbs start to open, and all reach WOT at the same time, is to lengthen the centers
on the primary throttle lever, and or shorten the centers on the secondary carbs. It the carbs are original and the levers haven't been changed, then that must be the way it was originally designed to work.

Sal
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Old 05-22-2022, 01:58 PM   #4
jefeingold
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Default Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

Yeah, Sal, I thought of that. The throttle arms on the primary/secondaries are at a perfect 1:2 ratio, with the shorter arms being the secondaries. This is factory, but I still can't believe they designed this so the secondaries begin to open at 20% primary throttle.

As KULTULZ suggested, I'll discuss this with Joe. In the meantime, I'll experiment to see if I can devise an elegant way (i.e., as Carroll would have done) to extend the length of the primary throttle arm and see whether that solves the problem.
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Old 05-22-2022, 05:43 PM   #5
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Arrow Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

Quote:
The throttle arms on the primary/secondaries are at a perfect 1:2 ratio, with the shorter arms being the secondaries. This is factory, but I still can't believe they designed this so the secondaries begin to open at 20% primary throttle.
At that period of time, it was meant to be that way for performance. They were sold as kits from FOMOCO. Of course now it is a little too aggressive, especially at $4 plus per gallon. As far as I know, there were no service parts released. It was a complete kit. Whether FE OEM adj rods can be made to work I don't know.

I've read where he may be difficult to contact. Let us know how it goes and if not will try another route.

In the meantime, I will consult my cobweb library. Trouble is, he will know the answer straight off.
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Old 05-22-2022, 05:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

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If you don't change the centers and you want the primary carb to open furhter before getting into the secondaries, maybe you can live with the secondary carbs opening most of the way, instead of 100 %.

Sal
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Old 05-22-2022, 06:47 PM   #7
jefeingold
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Default Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

Thanks Sal and KULTULZ. I was considering taking the route of partial throttle on the secondaries to get more throttle on the primary. The (not so) funny thing about that is when I adjust to those specs, the primary goes to WOT while the secondaries open to, say, 70%. I fear that under pedal-to-the-metal conditions, center cylinders would run rich and the front and rear cylinders would go lean.

I've spoken to Joe Bunetic on other matters, so he's there. I just don't want to bug him on a Sunday night, so I'll call him next week.

By the way, all my linkage adjustments are happening on the bench, which is a heck of a lot easier to do than on the car. Tomorrow or Tuesday I'll drop (haha) the kit on the car and see what happens. I didn't mention it, but it's a 289 in a '63 Falcon Futura.
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Old 05-22-2022, 07:24 PM   #8
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Arrow Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

63 1/2 FUTURA (no SPRINT TRIM PACKAGE?)

Much nicer looking car than a 63.

GO HERE - https://www.hptrends.com/index.htm

They have a WSM that says has the adjustment(s) procedure.
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Old 05-22-2022, 08:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

JMO and you are not going to like, just put it on the car and drive it. Sound is part of the experience. you are not going to go any faster one way or another. Part of it is eye candy. It sure looks good to me.
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Old 05-22-2022, 09:26 PM   #10
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Default Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

63 1/2 FUTURA (no SPRINT TRIM PACKAGE?)
- No Sprint bling for me- it's a Futura, not a Sprint, and I'm honest about what I drive, so I'm not gonna make a repro Sprint (altho a previous owner did add a Sprint insignia on the C pillar, and you gotta remove the headliner to change it out...). I am, however, staying period speed equipt, thus the Buddy Bar/Ford carb kit. I also scored a set of gen-you-wine Shelby Cragar 5-spoke mags, not the one-piece repros.

GO HERE - https://www.hptrends.com/index.htm
- Yeah, I finally bit the bullet and downloaded it. Let's see if helps things. I've been also using Mike Brattland's "Tri-Power Bulletin."

I'll read the hptrends paper, tweak things a bit, bolt on the kit, and see what happens. Can't wait!
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Old 05-22-2022, 10:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

From my experience I don't think it will cause a lean condition on the front and rear cylinders if the secondary carbs are not 100% opened.

Sal
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Old 05-23-2022, 02:24 AM   #12
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Thumbs up Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

Quote:
I also scored a set of gen-you-wine Shelby Cragar 5-spoke mags, not the one-piece repros.
With the CS CENTER CAPS?

You are serious. Power to you!
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Old 05-23-2022, 02:27 AM   #13
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Question Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

Quote:
Originally Posted by scicala View Post

If you don't change the centers and you want the primary carb to open furhter before getting into the secondaries, maybe you can live with the secondary carbs opening most of the way, instead of 100 %.

Sal
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5851a View Post

JMO and you are not going to like, just put it on the car and drive it. Sound is part of the experience. you are not going to go any faster one way or another. Part of it is eye candy. It sure looks good to me.
Now where is the fun in that? It's like being married to a beauty queen and find out she's frigid.

I had a 67 GT-500 8V that when the secondary's opened sounded like a shotgun going off ...
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Old 05-23-2022, 04:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

I meant on the car with the secondaries starting to open at 20%.
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Old 05-23-2022, 05:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
With the CS CENTER CAPS?

You are serious. Power to you!
Dig it - see photo.

By the way, I downloaded the 3Deuces booklet from HPTrends. Wow, that is a super detailed and useful piece of work - I need to go back and do some steps he recommends before trying to synch my deucing#&$* carbs! Just a note to all you hundreds of people with tri-power sets: 3Deuces focuses on the FE/390-406 tri-power kit, not the SBF/260-289 item. But the info is virtually applicable in its entirety.
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Old 05-23-2022, 07:26 PM   #16
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Thumbs up Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF



- ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL -

Once upon a time, in a GALAXIE far, far away...

I had a 64 SPRINT.

Let us know what secret(s) you find ...
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Old 05-23-2022, 08:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

Just for my general knowledge (which I might remember), are those set up to idle on all 3?
Power valves on all 3, just the center, or none? Do they make a unisyn, or similar, or an adapter to fit those carbs? All my experience is 94’s, SU’s or Weber’s. I know Drylakesracer over on yblocksforever has an adapter to use the unisyn on his WCFB dual quads, but that’s the end of my knowledge.
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Old 05-24-2022, 05:58 AM   #18
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Question Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

And I would like to know ... ...

On the air horn(s), it will have the LIST NO.

Is there any FORD ID STAMPING there?
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Old 05-27-2022, 07:35 PM   #19
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Arrow Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF


While perusing in my basement archives, affectionately known as COBWEB CORNER - (right next to MY SEX LIFE is OVER SECTION) yesterday, I came across forgotten TRI-POWER INFO. I have his booklet (c. 2003) and it explains adjustments on the system(s). There are also two sets of actuating rods which may explain quick and slow outer carb opening.

This info is included in this thread for any future searches on the subject,

- https://www.ford6vcarburetion.com/
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Old 10-15-2023, 01:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: Tri-power Linkage - SBF

Both SBF and FE 6V Linkage(GM language is Tripower) is nearly the same. Specifically the two individual shafts which fit between the center carburetor and each outboard carburetors are identical and are adjusted exactly identical whether a SBF or FE.
When laid out next to each other many people think they are identical but they are not.
There is a short and long shaft. You can tell the short shaft by looking at the round barrel part of the linkage. The one with the short barrel is the short shaft.
As you found out, the SBF and FE 6V will work in general fine when these shafts are reversed but not the way that the Ford and Holley Engineers designed the Ford 6V linkage to work.
The short shaft goes forward and long shafter goes aft. Short goes forward, long goes aft.
Adjusting these pieces is simple and easy when position correctly.
Put the short shaft on leaving the adjustment nut loose and open the center carburetor to Wide Open Throttle(WOT) and at the same time open the forward carburetor to WOT, attach both ends to the carburetors and adjust the length so that when the center carb gets to WOT the forward carburetor is also WOT by insuring the linkage arm is adjusted to allow it.
Once you have adjusted the forward carburetor repeat this for the aft carburetor insuring the center and after carbs are at WOT and the linkage arm adjusted to insure this position.
Once adjusted, tighten the lock nuts and finish the installation of your linkage.
It is as simple as this.
The FE 6V setup is exactly the same regarding these two linkage pieces, although the cross shaft is forward and has an straight rod between the center carb and crossover linkage which should be adjusted to 7 1/8 inches.
The SBF and FE 6V Holley 2300 carburetors all look identical, but there are five sets of 6V carburetors(all flow different total CFMs with the exception of two of the three FE setups which are identical at 1030CFM)) which Ford offered from 1961 through 1964/65 for the SBF and FE. Two sets for the SBF and three sets for the FE.
Whoever commented originally about Joe Bunetic is quite right. He is the Guru of all Ford multiple carburetors especially 6V stuff.
Because of some of your questions mentioned in this thread, I ended up writing a technical book in 1991, since unlike the FE 6V, Ford never wrote any technical information about the SBF 6V setup other than offering a diagram for people who bought these setups across the counter and presumed they would consult some of the formal FE 6V information published associated with the 1961-1863 Ford Thunderbird and 1964 Galaxie Shop Manuals.
If you have other questions drop me an email and certainly take advantage of the website at @ford6vcarburetion dot com .
For the record, I personally own a SBF 289 Buddy Barr setup which I ran on my old roadster, a FE 2436/2437 List 6V which I run on my '66 Ford Fairlane GT 390 and a ultra rare Ford 429 SCJ 6V intake(Buddy Barr) and carburetion (List 4782/4783s) on my '38 Willys with a BB Ford. I have known and exchanged with Joe since Holley referred me to him in 1987 when i called the Holley tech folks hoping to find some tech information on the SBF 6V. Their answer was call this "Joe Guy" in St Louis and gave me his phone number........Many of his inside baseball Ford 6V tips are incorporated my tech book...Much of the inside baseball can be found in old articles including the 1961-63 Ford Thunderbird Supplementary Shop Manual, 1964 Ford Galaxie Shop Manual and various short notes from a variety of periodicals of the early 1960s.....
I have included five illustrations from my tech book which help visualize the linkage issue here.........mgb
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File Type: jpg Ford 6V Linkage rods 1b.jpg (50.3 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg Ford 6V Linkage rods 1c.jpg (88.5 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Ford 6V Linkage rods 1d.jpg (86.5 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Ford 6V Linkage rods 1e.jpg (81.8 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Ford 6V Linkage rods 1f.jpg (83.1 KB, 6 views)
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