New Engine from Todd?

[GeneBob]

Has anyone heard any updates on the new engine blocks that Todd was trying to bring to market? I would be interested in his 5 main bearing block and crank. I don't have any contact information for him and the Fordbarn search is very weak.
Thanks.

[jeepguy1948]

Make sure you include "Burtz"

[Bruce of MN]

Aren't they two different efforts?

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by '28 RPU

Make sure you include "Burtz"

How about a Donovan Model "D"?

[Bruce of MN]

I searched for "Tod" and found this: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=309853

[40 Deluxe]

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Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder

How about a Donovan Model "D"?

I first read about the Donovan "D" back in the '70's. Is it still in production? Or did it ever reach production?

[nkaminar]

I think the one from Todd is aluminum and the Burtz block is cast iron. I am very happy with my Burtz engine. I assembled it myself and it is now running in my car with about 200 miles on it. I have had experience rebuilding many different types of engines so it was a simple job for me. And fun.

Todd has published his efforts on the Barn. Try the search utility again. I know he is not very active here.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

I think the one from Todd is aluminum and the Burtz block is cast iron. I am very happy with my Burtz engine. I assembled it myself and it is now running in my car with about 200 miles on it. I have had experience rebuilding many different types of engines so it was a simple job for me. And fun.

Todd has published his efforts on the Barn. Try the search utility again. I know he is not very active here.

I have about 1,500 miles on my Burtz engine and it is still improving as it frees up. Each time I take it out, it impresses me again and again and I congratulate myself on making the decision to buy one.
I bought it for the almost indestructible bottom end. I did about 45,000 miles on an original engine rebuilt for the purpose of towing a camper trailer through the outback. While it is still going, I expect this engine will have way more stamina.

[jeepguy1948]

If you search facebook you will find him. His name is Tod (1d) Buttermore. He is indeed building an aluminum block (and an aluminum OHV head) the block is 5 main.

[Herb Concord Ca]

Todd's last name is Butterworth, I think, he posts on facebook. He builds Synder's 5.5 and 6.0 heads.

[California Travieso]

Send him a PM (private message), he will respond. Also, His e-mail is:

[email protected]

David Serrano

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by GeneBob

Has anyone heard any updates on the new engine blocks that Todd was trying to bring to market? I would be interested in his 5 main bearing block and crank. I don't have any contact information for him and the Fordbarn search is very weak.
Thanks.

I didn't think Tod (-note spelling) was going to manufacture a 5 main at this time. My conversation with Tod was he was going to manufacture a replacement block for an original Model-A engine. In other words, the (re)builder would do the final machine work on Tod's block just as if someone found a NOS A-6015 Cylinder Block when Ford manufactured it as a replacement piece back in the day. Simply put, by using one of Tod's new blocks, you get a standard bore without any water jacket corrosion, without any fatigue cracks or thread damage, -and you could (re)use whatever internal components you wanted (-original camshaft reground vs. new Stipe cam, an original crankshaft vs. aftermarket counterweighted, stock sized valves vs. O/S, original cylinder head vs. hi-compression, etc.) to save time & $$ re-using what you already have. I am definitely NOT 'dissing' on Terry's new project as I think it is a fine piece, however IMO not every restored original Model-A needs a 5-main bearing engine with a proprietary crankshaft & rods when the hobbyist might already have many of the components to be reused from their present engine which just has a worn block.

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I didn't think Tod (-note spelling) was going to manufacture a 5 main at this time. My conversation with Tod was he was going to manufacture a replacement block for an original Model-A engine. In other words, the (re)builder would do the final machine work on Tod's block just as if someone found a NOS A-6015 Cylinder Block when Ford manufactured it as a replacement piece back in the day. Simply put, by using one of Tod's new blocks, you get a standard bore without any water jacket corrosion, without any fatigue cracks or thread damage, -and you could (re)use whatever internal components you wanted (-original camshaft reground vs. new Stipe cam, an original crankshaft vs. aftermarket counterweighted, stock sized valves vs. O/S, original cylinder head vs. hi-compression, etc.) to save time & $$ re-using what you already have. I am definitely NOT 'dissing' on Terry's new project as I think it is a fine piece, however IMO not every restored original Model-A needs a 5-main bearing engine with a proprietary crankshaft & rods when the hobbyist might already have many of the components to be reused from their present engine which just has a worn block.

Brent,

I was not going to reply, but since my name was mentioned along with some questionable information, I am replying.

Thanks for not 'dissing" on the New Model A Engine.

I will be presenting a seminar on the new engine at the MAFCA National Convention in Kerrville, TX.

I am hoping that you can attend and you will understand that every part with the exception of the crankshaft and connecting rods is stock Model A.

I would also like to discuss with you the importance of external appearance, 17 pressurized bearings, 8 counterweights, and the cost difference between the New Engine's fully machined cylinder block and having to do additional work on an A-6015 partially machined cylinder block.

I look forward to meeting you in Kerrville.

Terry Burtz

[Flathead]

I was hoping for an A block with B journal sizes to beef up the bottom end. I think such a set-up would be fine with only three mains.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Flathead

I was hoping for an A block with B journal sizes to beef up the bottom end. I think such a set-up would be fine with only three mains.

Graft in a B crank? I've given thought to that and think it's quite doable. The most difficult (expensive) part would be making new main bearing caps for the larger journals.

[BrianH]

Making the larger main bearing caps is yes expensive time consuming. The real work is machining the block to match. Solution is grinding the "B" crank main bearings to "A" crank size and go from there. I have one in my latest engine build and is working fine.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by BrianH

Making the larger main bearing caps is yes expensive time consuming. The real work is machining the block to match. Solution is grinding the "B" crank main bearings to "A" crank size and go from there. I have one in my latest engine build and is working fine.

IMO, grinding the B crank journals back to A sizes leaves you with nothing more than an A crank with counterweights added. Why not use a new A crank and have new, unfatigued steel? They are available from the vendors. I have been using a Burlington crank on inserts for years now and it has been fine.
I think the thicker journals of the B crank are a BIG improvement on the skinny A journals. Henry didn't spend a cent he didn't have to and he realised that he had to use a stronger crank in the B engine.
Machining the block is no big deal. Once the new caps are roughed out (the faces that contact the block machined, the crank tunnel cut a little undersized and holes drilled), they would be bolted in place and the whole shebang line bored ready for insert bearings. The same bearings as Terry Burtz specifies for his engines will fit nicely for the main bearings and I have other inserts in the big ends of my B engine. I can't remember what the 1 7/8" inserts are out of but both mains and rods are 0.020" undersized in my engine. The same thing grafted into an A block would result in a quite serviceable engine, IMO.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Cracks, the cylinder bores, and or the crank journals too small....these are the real things that jump up and bite a person on rebuilds.

Something that often is overlooked in this is this hobby has seen a 180° degree turn in the mindset of restoration in the last few decades where now hobbyists just want to replace and/or modify rather than restore. Items such as 'numbers matching' (which was once a big thing) or trying to restore a car as authentically as possible seemingly has changed where some hobbyists do not understand that 'restoring' still has favor by some hobbyists. Technology today makes restoring older engines even more possible. If something is jumping up and biting the person during a rebuild, then generally speaking, the machinist did not clean, wet & dry magnaflux, pressure test, and sonic test the components during the evaluation portion PRIOR to beginning the machining processes.

Originally Posted by BrianH

Making the larger main bearing caps is yes expensive time consuming. The real work is machining the block to match. Solution is grinding the "B" crank main bearings to "A" crank size and go from there. I have one in my latest engine build and is working fine.

Brian, the only thing I will caution you on about grinding the journals from 2.000" to 1.625" is when you remove 3/16th of an inch off of each side of the journal pin, you are well below the heat treated portion of the pin which makes the surface very soft. Often times the reason why this was never much of a problem was if the rebuilder used a softer alloy of Babbitt to support the journals. Therefore, if someone wants longevity either with correct Babbitt composition, -or with insert bearings, then the crankshaft really needs to be Nitrided which will give about a 0.030" surface hardness.

[GeneBob]

Thank you all for the information. I will be finding out more from Tod directly, I hope. I just put a supercharger onto my 1930 Tudor and would like to build an engine with 5 mains and better oiling to withstand the increased loads. This is not an immediate project, just an expectation that the original engine will not last forever.
Nothing against the Burtz engine, I think he has accomplished a fantastic feat in bringing the engine to production and everyone who has one seems to love it. I was hoping to find an engine that is not manufactured in China.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by GeneBob

Thank you all for the information. I will be finding out more from Tod directly, I hope. I just put a supercharger onto my 1930 Tudor and would like to build an engine with 5 mains and better oiling to withstand the increased loads. This is not an immediate project, just an expectation that the original engine will not last forever.
Nothing against the Burtz engine, I think he has accomplished a fantastic feat in bringing the engine to production and everyone who has one seems to love it. I was hoping to find an engine that is not manufactured in China.

Gene, I know what you mean about the China stuff. The problem is that we (USA) make almost nothing any more. It jumped up and bit us hard when the pandemic hit. We can not turn the ship on a dime, and it will take time to undo all of that.

Every time I need a new pair of tennis shoes it kills me to shell out that money for something made in Vietnam. Vietnam if all places. They tortured our POWs for fun. Let me say that again, just for fun. They tortured a few of them (along with help from the Cubans, arranged by the Russians) to death. No I have not forgotten. Any time I can buy something made in the USA I do, even if it costs a little more.

Gene (the other Gene LOL)